RBC is NOT a BB. Change my Mind.
First off: I'm not an incoming RBC intern. I am an incoming BB intern however (think BAML, Citi, BarCap).
Background: It seems that there's a hot firestorm about the classification of RBC, and whether or not it IS a BB or not. It looks like every thread that's posted seems to have some reference to RBC and what it is, however all those threads quickly devolve into name calling and insulting. I want to have a calm and rational discussion about this topic in this thread. Key words here: CALM and RATIONAL. Now to preface, my opinion is based on the research I've done, and I'm by no means set on my view about RBC being or not being a BB. My mind can be changed is what I'm saying.
My view: RBC is a good bank, and a great place to work at. I would say that in the US, it's a better bet to go with RBC over UBS or DB. BUT, I don't think it meets the requisite qualifications to be a BB.
Backup: In order for a bank to be considered a BB, it must meet the criteria outlined below:
-Large Balance Sheet
-Full service IB (i.e. it has SnT, IB, ER, AM divisions)
-Competes and has a tangible footprint across the globe in both MnA and financing.
Now I think RBC fails the last point. RBC is clearly very strong in North America according to the league tables, which would have it compete against UBS and DB.
However it's important to note this is just in North America. Let's look at the GLOBAL results. If we look at JUST equity financing, RBC is not even on the top 10 globally as of results from last year 2019. (NOTE: neither is DB, all the other BBs are). If we look at JUST debt financing, RBC is NOT in the top 10. (NOTE: neither is UBS, all the other BBs are). Now the big one: MnA. If we look at global MnA activity, neither RBC, DB, or UBS are in the top 10. There's GS, JPM, MS, Citi, BofA, BarCap, and CS, and a bunch of EBs (LAZ, EVR) and one MM (Rothschild).
So to summarize, RBC isn't in the top 10 as of 2019 from either MnA activity, Debt financing, or Equity financing. Thus RBC cannot be said to compete on a global scale for MnA or financing. Thus I believe RBC cannot be considered a BB at this time. Is it a great bank to work at? Absolutely. I'd wager given the current economic state, it'd be better than either DB or UBS. But because it doesn't compete globally, it is not currently a BB.
Change my mind.
Damn bro you that bored
No one literally asked for your opinion nor cares. Get off the high horse.
M&A > MnA
sad that you care this much... maybe if you tried this hard at recruiting you could have gotten an offer at RBC as opposed to your shit bank that doesn't compete! RBC IS THE BEST BANK IN THE WORLD
What about being “RBC nice” ;(
ok zoomer
Hello, Steven Crowder.
Jefferies is more established and plays in the BB space just as much if not more than RBC. Notice how it’s not really a big conversation on WSO meanwhile the RBC interns and analysts relentlessly try and inflate their egos on this forum.
Point is your actual work quality is what matters not the words you use to justify it. RBC interns can be as loud as they want proclaiming they are a BB, whatever that even means, but it doesn’t mean anyone actually cares or believes it.
That being said, RBC is a great bank and although it’s not considered a BB right now by most, it definitely will be in the coming years. But honestly, other than RBC analysts, who cares?
Right, but RBC has ER, AM, a trading desk, literally full service in everyway imaginable with a balance sheet comparable to the BBs. I'm talking over a trillion in assets. Can't say that about Jefferies
umm.. Jefferies has a renowned ER team, they have AM, PWM, a large trading team, and even an RX team which RBC doesn't even have.. and they have a large balance sheet as well and structure some of the most highly levered deals on the street..
Everyone knows RBC isn't a BB. It's just that their interns and analysts are more insecure so they're louder on this forum
Honestly, these RBC interns must have coordinated this attack or something. We are legitimizing this bank by discussing it. RBC is a relatively obscure bank and was unheard of like 5 years ago (they've only recently gotten any play in North America). Clearly nobody in their right mind chooses RBC over a real BB, this is just insecure interns screaming at the world to accept them. Everyone that hears this should discount anything from those people. The only sad repercussion of the whole ordeal is that some college students might mistakenly believe that RBC is actually comparable to the real Bulge Bracket banks.
If you were to go on a random city in America the following banks that would be recognized by general American public are probably:
Goldman Sachs Bank of America JPMorgan Citi
I doubt very many people have heard of any of the international banks including CS. Simply because RBC is obscure does not imply that it isn’t a BB. Not a tier 1 BB? Sure I’d agree with you. But there’s a decent claim that it could be a lower BB.
can easily throw citi in there
This is getting ridiculous. There's more complaints and coordinated attacks toward RBC about their "status" than the alleged claims that interns are on the board. You and I both know that the "5 years ago" line of reasoning doesn't matter the argument can flipped on its head for any EB. I see a lot of folks at other banks, primarily non-European, trying to make up for something that clearly hasn't been working over the "last 5 years." Numbers can be found by anyone publicly, take a look at the transaction value per analyst then get back to me.
You're right, RBC's US presence is certainly newer and consequently their teams teams are far leaner than other BBs. And guess what? They have undeniably crushed their space and continue to do so while DB/UBS run far larger headcounts and fail to get on large mandates anymore. It's not that their banker's haven't been strong. It's that they, quite literally, don't have them anymore as they all left to join RBC. DB/UBS and now CS aren't even targeting advisory in the US any longer as a growth strategy. It's not working.
Also not sure if you're still in school or not? I work with recruiting, kids this last cycle chose RBC over many other BBs and MM shops. Certainly DB/UBS. This is undeniable. Browse through Linkedin. Recruiting is aggressively early. Senior bankers take the time out to talk with their top candidates to choose them over other large banks and it's been working. You're feelings don't really matter as at the end of the day people just want to be a part of a stable, high growth platform post-crisis.
Fake Associate 2 tag. Never seen someone with 4+ years experience like this actually bother to type an emotional post like this defending RBC.
Who says it has to meet your criteria? In terms of exit opps what goes on in a particular office is what matters. Goldman Sachs Munich office will have no impact on NY PE exits/deal flow.
dude he literally said that RBC is a strong bank in NY/North Amercia. He never mentioned exit pops whatsoever, just that it isn't a BB. And that criteria seems pretty reasonable to me, and probably 99% of other people on this forum
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/finance-dictionary/what-is-a-bulge-brac…
Nowhere does it state the bank has to be global only multi-national. (Also would question DB/UBS now article is a bit old)
And honestly no one would choose RBC over DB/UBS. DB/UBS are BBs no matter how bad you wanna disparage them
Using the OPs line of reasoning if you agree DB/UBS are BB than so is RBC. The OP effectively tried to show that all 3 banks are not BBs
(I'm the OP of the post), I meant nothing of the sort. DB and UBS are at least top 10 in one of the three fields (MnA, Debt, Equity). RBC is not in the top 10 in ANY of them. That's why I think it's not a BB, to clarify.
Please go to a target and find me students who picked DB/UBS over RBC in the last cycle...seriously? DB/UBS interns are out in full force
Well you won't find that because RBC recruits early in the cycle (Sophomore spring) while UBS/DB recruit later (Junior fall). No one is ever having the option to choose between the two, so I don't know why there are so much animosity here
Analyst 3 must not gotten any BB / EB offers. Makes sense you're a third year analyst in IB and not a first year associate in PE. We expect nothing more from RBC junior people
Agree 100%
http://graphics.wsj.com/investment-banking-scorecard/
All the information is out there, RBC interns can look to see where they stack up globally. Just because RBC is doing well in NA doesn't suddenly make it a global BB. They hardly play in Europe/Asia, whereas real BB have a footprint in every region. RBC recruits earlier than every bank, so many prospects/interns who interviewed with them early will have a biased view and preference towards RBC on this forum.
Poor logic. That's like living in London and not seeing Roths as an EB because it's far weaker elsewhere. You know better.
You can say a bank is an EB in a region, but saying a bank is BB only in a region goes completely against the definition of what a bulge bracket bank is lol
For what it's worth, this quarter UBS was actually top 5 in M&A
Okay I usually don’t comment on this, but since there are annoyingly so many comments about RBC, here we go. I work at a top group in RBC in NYC (honestly willing to have the WSO board verify me to prove this), and this is the truth: literally NO ONE at the bank gives a single fuck about whether we are a BB or not. Are our incoming interns and analysts really this annoying? Here’s the answer, so you guys stay humble when you come in: RBC is not a BB, and as of now, we have absolutely no strategic plans of being a BB, and none of us here give a fuck. Our bankers are extremely nice and humble, and this is what makes our culture so great. For the non-RBC ppl here bashing us, I hope you guys also realize that no full-time people at other banks give a single fuck either.
So why isn’t RBC a BB? Well because we aren’t global, nor are we trying hard to be global. We focus on our strong markets, which is the US and Canada. We have teams in Australia and London but those are tiny ass teams specializing in certain sectors and act more like a boutique. We don’t even have an office in Asia. You guys realize a bank needs to be GLOBALLY STRONG to become a BB?? Fun fact: RBC isn’t global.
Now that everyone knows the facts, here’s the thing that matters: RBC is a very strong bank in North America (best in Canada and rising in the US). I’m going to assume everyone’s interested in the US markets so I’ll focus there. We compete against the BBs and Jefferies for mandates more often against than the MM players. Jefferies is a really strong bank btw, I'm not sure how to label them but i think labeling is stupid. In reality, we lose those more than we win, but we do have some home runs here and there. In terms of DB/UBS specifically in the US, we are definitely direct competitors with them. We are better than them in some groups, but they are better than us in others. I do however know that many people choose us over DB, but I am also certain many people choose DB over us. At the end of the day, real bankers really don’t give af about rankings against others. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. I will end with this though: UBS and DB are BBs. That’s a fact. They are strong and have presence globally in every single market. No, they may not be top 10 in every market but that really has nothing to do with being a BB. Hope everyone stops being childish and mature before going into their prospective banks this summer.
clap clap clap
Thanks man WSO needed this lol. Hope your incoming interns aren't this annoying in the office
Fair and objective.
Ex-RBCer here, just correcting one point. There is an RBC branch in Asia (Judith leads it) and echo alot of these statements.
Finally a rational post. Honestly people continue to say that RBC interns or analyst are everywhere hyping themselves up, but I rarely see it (apart from some posts that are obviously meant to be taken as a joke), far more people bashing RBC than people talking it up from, which I think just sheds light into the insecurity others have about where they are going to work
These are the posts we need on this forum. Not RBC interns going on every thread posting about their bank, even when the thread has nothing to do with them
Lol I honestly don't think it's your incoming interns and FTs on this board. There's been a lot of people making multiple accounts recently. I've met a lot of RBC guys, chillest guys I've seen at any bank. Take it easy on the kids this summer. They're probably chilling with their friends (minus COVID) rather than hanging around on here.
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/hsbc-the-only-top-bb-to-halve-th…
You should look at the shit show going on here lol. A troll post about HSBC got turned upside down. Some of my friends are going to RBC and they can't believe some of the stuff being said here.
Rankings matter because of PE exits. You can’t tell me GS is the same as HSBC or that their differences don’t matter when it in reality very much matters for exit opps
Well said. But RBC has some offices in Asia, at least for AM. Source: They're clients of my firm.
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