Reflections on John McCain

As many of you have probably heard, John McCain passed away today at the age of 81 due to a brain tumor. I do not possess anywhere near the expertise nor skill to write a true homage to him, so I will just leave this link to the Times announcement of his passing, as I feel it captures the essence of who and what he was.

I am young. I do not possess the resumes nor the experiences of many people on this site. But I would like to offer my thoughts. This will be the first year where I can vote, and I can credit McCain with forming much of my appreciation for and opinions on politics. No matter anyone's political sway, we should all look to him as the pinnacle of the American Spirit. He was one of the last remaining heroes, people who unequivocally put the United States' interest first; even as the son of a Navy Admiral, he would not let himself receive preferential treatment and release at the Hanoi Hilton so that other prisoners would be released first. This is the kind of dedication and love for country that has shaped America throughout history, and John McCain espoused that mantra to the fullest. Returning the States following torture that none of us on here could begin to fathom, he pursued a career in politics that came to define him in history. He is the kind of American that we need more of in politics: uncompromisingly staunch in their belief to put America first beyond oneself, but willing to work with any- and everyone to keep our country running.

It is because of McCain, and Romney to a lesser extent, that I consider myself Republican. McCain was always a defender of free trade and speech, the bastions of our democracy and capitalism. However, the current political climate is making that a hard label to take. First and foremost, I am a supporter of liberty, and the changing Republican party seems to have forgotten what made it great in the past. McCain was one of the last of his kind who held up true Republican ideals, and I will always consider him an American legend: he was one of our best.

 

The guy who stayed in the Hanoi Hilton for the self possed reason that he was following the first in first out rule. If you talk to the people who were there with him said he was hiding from treason charges because he basically spiled his guts. The same guy who crashed multiple planes while training, including one carrier crash that killed 6 American sailors. The same guy who was in the Navy Acadmey becuase his dad got him in and kept him from failing out? The same guy who had the POW recrods sealed from the Hanoi Hilton becuase he decided to run for congress to prevent people from finding out? The same guy who profited hugely on the S&L crisis becuase he had government action insights? He put on a pretty good image as a caring kind grandpa, but in reality he is a sycophant and a sociopath. Albeit a slightly better one than 90% of the rest of congress.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne
 

Buying those Russian lies much? Maybe do some fact check https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/was-sen-john-mccain-a-hanoi-hilton-so…

Or straight up read on WSJ https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/a-life-of-service-lived-with-good-natu…

“In addition to rankling his critics in Congress, McCain’s indomitable attitude occasionally earned him enemies overseas. In 2001 when George W. Bush said he had looked in Vladimir Putin’s eyes and seen his soul, McCain retorted that he had also looked into Mr. Putin’s eyes but had seen just three letters: “K-G-B.” The Russians soon thereafter started targeting him with online lies. To this day, emails circulate purporting to come from unnamed “fellow POWs,” “squadron mates” and “authoritative sources,” accusing McCain of being a coward, a squeal, a lousy pilot and worse.”

Also his Naval Academy performance has lot to do w rebelling vs just sucking at math or something. Overall I’m just surprised how many people in posts below are hanging on to the conspiracy theories. He was a brave guy during Vietnam. Palin was a mistake. Democrats are probably more positive about him today than they ever were. But his no vote against ACA is something people should be grateful about for generations - Republicans weren’t exactly solving any problems there (pre-existing condition, affordable or any healthcare for anyone, runaway cost, etc.).

 

I have actually spoken to men who were on the Forestall. My grandfathers older brother was a Naval officer of McCains age who said pretty much any officer or NCO who knew McCain hated the guy. To say he was a lousy officer is a glowing recomendation in comparison to reality. His vote about the ACA was his absolute lowest point in his career. He basically put his own rememberance ahead of his "consistency" to his quote unquote beliefs. You clearly have serious lackings in your understandings about how government works. I would argue that anyone who uses snopes as a "fact check" just quit the internet now. If you look at a huge amount of their fact checks surrounding the previous election or really anything about the people who run that website and you will see why. McCain was no more crooked than any other member of congress, and that is saying it kindly.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne
 

He was a hero to people of civilian, military, political, and many more walks of life. That in itself is a legacy to behold. We are less well off without him. Here's to hoping that his character lives on in the minds and actions of all Americans.

in it 2 win it
 
Controversial

Please don't vote. Don't take it personally. I just don't believe people your age have the maturity to cast an informed vote. Your decision process is built on fluff as opposed to actual, real world experience.

“Elections are a futures market for stolen property”
 

OP composed a well-reasoned mature viewpoint of one of the last great politicians, and a resident Trumper tells him not to vote.

I didn’t agree with all of McCains politics, and unfortunately you can draw a straight line from his elevation of “Sarah Palin, serious thinker” to Trump. Nevertheless he was an American hero and one of the last examples of bipartisanship we have in Washington. He was 1000x the man Trump can ever hope to be.

"I don't know how to explain to you that you should care about other people."
 

There's nothing well-reasoned in OPs thread at all, actually. Just a bunch of fluff, void of any substance. McCain essentially stood on the wrong side of every issue. There's a reason why the OP didn't make a single reference to actual policy. The man's record is atrocious.

He was a warmonger, a proponent of the police/surveillance state and generally a bad guy. As much as I hate to say it, the world is legitimately safer today than it was just a few days ago.

So it might feel good to parrot this mindless garbage but it's neither accurate not insightful. Fluff you can get from buzzfeed.

“Elections are a futures market for stolen property”
 
Esuric:
Please don't vote. Don't take it personally. I just don't believe people your age have the maturity to cast an informed vote. Your decision process is built on fluff as opposed to actual, real world experience.

Esuric I was reading Principle by Dalio and I think Dalio was proposing something similar. He said that people should get different amount of say depending on how credible they are in a vote. Apparently Bridgewater already runs on a similar system. I always thought it was weird that everyone had 1 vote when an individual's ability to make a sound decision is different.

P.S. I thought the OP's write up was decent. Not saying OP shouldn't vote or anything like that hah.

 

I would absolutely advise people dissuade young people from voting becuase they don't know shit about the world. People in college for example should have 0 right to vote. They legitimately are the single largest voting block who vote against their lifelong best interest 100% of the time.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne
 

Like him or hate him, the man had principals. When the guy on his own 'team' (Trump) crossed the line he had the balls to tell him to shove it. I wish more politicians on both sides of the aisle were as morally sound as he was.

The only difference between Asset Management and Investment Research is assets. I generally see somebody I know on TV on Bloomberg/CNBC etc. once or twice a week. This sounds cool, until I remind myself that I see somebody I know on ESPN five days a week.
 

McCain, like Graham, like the Bushes, like Clinton belongs to the political class that dragged the US into endless wars, eradicating the American middle class and paving the way for the current radicalized political climate. You may think Trump is bad, that's fine. He's a symptom though, not the cause. McCain and the likes of him are the cause.

The death toll in the Middle East that Neocons are responsible for is enormous and beyond redemption. His greatest achievement is probably having failed in his bid against Obama, who, despite his faults, at least didn't launch a full fledged invasion of Syria. If the US have a bad reputation around the world, it's primarily because of them. They have given a reason to Muslims, Russians and Chinese not to trust the American leadership with its relentless aggressions, hostility, corruption and moral vacuum.

tl, dr One less enemy of mankind on the planet.

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.
 

Obama is just as bad when it comes to expansion of the war economy. He expanded the foreign war involvement from 2 to 7. Brought about the situations that resulted in the current genocide going on in Yemen now. So yea, he is just as much of an asshole as those who came before.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne
 

Little did he know the conspiracy theorists and outright racists would completely take over the party by 2016. These same retards that still to this day think Obama was an 'Arab' now form the voting base for the Republican Party. It's unfortunate that McCain spent his last years seeing his party become nothing short of an extreme far right nationalist cult. At least Republicans like McCain and the Bushes are the devils we knew as opposed to the treasonous bandits that now occupy the executive branch. RIP.

 
BobTheBaker:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2004/11/mccain200411

He should've known what was up when members of his own party slandered him for having an out-of-wedlock "negro" child when in actuality she was adopted from Bangladesh. And people wonder why the republican party does an awful job of attracting minorities.

The real core of modern conservative populism economically is the belief that only the people that look like them are working hard and everyone else are just moochers. This is why a dude on disability from say rural Missouri can hate on people in urban Chicago using food stamps. The guy from Missouri really believes that he and people like him have earned their welfare checks unlike those other people. And this is why I think the socialism of people like Bernie Sanders would just fail to gain support in large parts of the country. Any benefit that's 'universal' offends their core beliefs no matter how much it applies to them as well.

 
thurnis haley:

Little did he know the conspiracy theorists and outright racists would completely take over the party by 2016. These same retards that still to this day think Obama was an 'Arab' now form the voting base for the Republican Party. It's unfortunate that McCain spent his last years seeing his party become nothing short of an extreme far right nationalist cult. At least Republicans like McCain and the Bushes are the devils we knew as opposed to the treasonous bandits that now occupy the executive branch. RIP.

Jesus fucking Christ, man. You really, genuinely hate people on the other side. This is a sad spectacle.

Array
 
real_Skankhunt42:
thurnis haley:

Little did he know the conspiracy theorists and outright racists would completely take over the party by 2016. These same retards that still to this day think Obama was an 'Arab' now form the voting base for the Republican Party. It's unfortunate that McCain spent his last years seeing his party become nothing short of an extreme far right nationalist cult. At least Republicans like McCain and the Bushes are the devils we knew as opposed to the treasonous bandits that now occupy the executive branch. RIP.

Jesus fucking Christ, man. You really, genuinely hate people on the other side. This is a sad spectacle.

Do I hate the other side? No I wouldn't say I hate them but I would say I think they're beyond help. But clearly I'm a little more than annoyed at the fact that some idiot from rural Arkansas that thinks Obama is a secret gay muslim frog (or whatever Fox News viewers currently have been told to believe) gets any say at all about how the federal government is run.

I'm really not trying to hide the fact I resent the people who decided to bring down the whole country because they're so mad about the homosexuals/abortions/rappers/transgendereds/etc. I don't hide the fact that I think that these peoples worst impulses should be largely overridden by the reasonable people in this country. If that point of view is offensive to you that's fine.

 

I did not like McCain, and he always struck me as an out-of-touch bureaucrat - not the type I would think was principled.

That being said, he's a war hero and a decent enough person, so I'll defer respect in this time of mourning.

"Work ethic, work ethic" - Vince Vaughn
 

McCain caused the USS Forrestal which killed 134 sailors. All of this swept under the rug because of his family connections. This was confirmed by an old Navy veteran I met at a wedding whose best friend was on the ship.

Just like most establishment politicians, he was an opportunist with little moral fiber and a huge ego. A liar who made a career out of propping up the military industrial complex.

 

He caused the fire? Him personally? This "story" came out during the Trump campaign, somehow undiscovered since the 1960's, and that doesn't seem in the slightest suspicious to you?

in it 2 win it
 

He fuckng shot a missle into a fuel tanker..... While on the flight deck. The whole incident was was blamed on an "electrical anomaly". Its about as believeable as a company blaming a "glitch" on a flawed system that leads to the data of millions of customers data being stolen.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne
 
InVinoVeritas:
McCain caused the USS Forrestal which killed 134 sailors. All of this swept under the rug because of his family connections. This was confirmed by an old Navy veteran I met at a wedding whose best friend was on the ship.

Just like most establishment politicians, he was an opportunist with little moral fiber and a huge ego. A liar who made a career out of propping up the military industrial complex.

This is correct. McCain got to where he was due to his family connections. He was at the bottom of his class at Naval Academy; he is not bright or talented.

 

McCain's attendance of the Naval Academy was pretty much due to his Father and Grandfathers previous service in the US Navy in which they achieved Admiral (4-star). He was a substandard student in the academy graduating 5 from the bottom of his class and upon retirement had only achieved the rank of Captain.

He had his opinions, many of which I disagreed, but I will give it to him as he stuck with his beliefs and did not waver.

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
 

So you'll love Trump that stands up to liberals bullies, their Orwellian political correctness, their lying media and their conspiracy theories?

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.
 

I didn't like much of his politics and still don't but I respect him as a man. He served his country for over 5 decades going back to his entrance into the United States Naval Academy. That, in itself, is commendable. He worked across party lines, which is becoming unheard of. May he rest in peace as the American hero that he is.

Array
 
Most Helpful

exactly what I thought would happen. an attempt at remembering someone for the good they did gets twisted into a political argument that tears down his character before he's even put on his last suit. I'd challenge each and every one of you to ask yourself if you'd say the things you'd written at his funeral. I'm not saying you should never judge someone just because they're dead and somehow immune to critique, quite the contrary. I just find it troubling that people have no social decency to wait for the guy to be in the ground before you start flaming him.

if this was osama bin laden/castro/hussein/etc, ok yeah let's cheer for the guy's death, but a veteran and long time senator? you don't have to agree with him (I personally don't), but is it really too much to ask to show just a little bit of respect? maybe it is and I'm too old-fashioned.

 

This is the state of our country (nah, just the internet, which makes things seem more extreme than they are). As someone who posts about politics both often and passionately, I am disappointed with the disrespect.

Array
 

I truly don't think it's the state of the country. I think it's the internet. people are too chicken shit to attach their name to inflammatory comments. yes, we all use hyperbole and we all like anonymity, but would you really trash someone like this at their funeral? this isn't like when saddam's statue came down, this is a senator and a veteran. just because you disagreed with him doesn't mean you can invalidate his existence and say "good riddance." actually, I guess we live in a country with free speech, so you do have the right to do it. still, makes you an obnoxious twat (and before you ask, yes I would call you that in person).

 

I know that some people tend to be more aggressive behind the shield of an anonymous username but I do not think this ("the internet") should be an excuse for bad behavior. The guy served his country for decades, including several years being a POW. Regardless of whether or not one agreed with his views, he deserves some respect. If you feel very strongly about him in a negative way, then you consider not commenting at this time.

http://www.series7examtutor.com
 

First, thoughts and condolences to the McCain family and his loved ones. The sacrifice and pain he had to endure in Vietnam is beyond comprehension, and people who question that act of heroism are quite frankly, awful human beings.

There seem to be two radically divergent reactions to McCain's death, and I reject them both. Those on the far Left call McCain a murderer and war criminal due to his decision to fight in the Vietnam War (as if a commissioned soldier is supposed to go AWOL rather than follow his commanding officers' orders) and for his hawkish foreign policy. I'm not going to address that loony side. My interest, however, is in addressing the reaction by the liberal media, many Democrats, and the so-called Never Trump Republicans.

The reaction by the liberal media has been especially ironic due to its painfully transparent opportunism. Its praise of McCain has hinged upon its own political convenience, rather than any underlying principle. During the 2000 GOP primary, the media praised McCain as a "maverick" because he was going up against George W Bush, a man they absolutely despised. During the 2008 GOP primary, they beefed up McCain when he was in the dumps because they hated Romney and Huckabee. Then, once McCain won the nomination and went up against their messiah-Barack Obama-he was lambasted as a racist and bigot. The current praise of McCain by the media and Democrats is inherently political, as they are explicitly drawing a contrast between McCain's supposed moral superiority over Trump.

The Never Trump Republicans have also been cynical, although to be fair, they have always liked McCain for the most part. To them, McCain is the ideal GOP politician: listens to the well paid beltway consultants, does not take chances when it comes to policy, and does not lash out at the liberal media. Their hatred of Trump has been evident from the beginning. Trump does not listen to them, thereby degrading the value of their "knowledge" and "skillset." After all, it must be frustrating to be a well-paid Republican operative right now, when the Republican President does not need your services. Never mind that the Trump presidency has been the most conservative in modern history, even moreso than Reagan's. Never mind that the Democrats have drifted sharply leftward, advocating socialist policies and identity politics. To them, Trump is an existential threat to their world order, a villain who needs to be crushed at all costs, even if that means handing control of Congress to the Democrats (McCain 2008 campaign manager Steve Schmidt, who has made a living bashing conservatives on liberal news shows is a prime example of this).

So is McCain really a paragon of moral virtue? Like any other human being, it's a mixed record. His military service was truly heroic. And there is no doubt that he loves America. But we also know that McCain has a bad temper, that he routinely denigrated his wife Cindy on the campaign trail in 1999-2000. We also should not forget that his first wife, Carol, loyally raised their kids while he was in captivity. During that time, she got into a terrible car accident, received medical treatment, and gained considerable weight. After returning home, McCain spent his time partying and cheating on his wife. He eventually left her for Cindy Hensley, a younger attractive woman and heiress to a family fortune. I personally find the McCain hagiography really creepy, as it is overly obsequious, one that should be reserved for very few people. I honestly can't think of any living U.S. politician who deserves such praise, one that essentially elevates him to a political saint.

Finally, as a conservative, I was not a fan of McCain's record as a Senator. He did not fight for conservative policies. His signature bill, McCain-Feingold, was an egregious violation of freedom of speech and was overturned by SCOTUS in the landmark "Citizens United" case. He routinely advocated liberal policies such as expansion of Medicare Plan D and No Child Left Behind. As a member of the Gang of 14, he tried to push through for amnesty of illegal aliens and routinely advocated for open borders and more cheap migrant labor. His 2008 presidential campaign was an utter debacle. When he had the chance to be a true maverick by picking Joe Liberman as his running mate, he cowered and picked the unvetted and woefully unprepared Sarah Palin. During that campaign, he did not forcefully attack Obama due to fear of being called racist (of course the media called him that anyways). Simply put, as a conservative, I can find very little in McCan's record that I find praiseworthy.

The spat with Trump has also been embarrassing. Trump endorsed McCain in 2008. In 2016 McCain attacked Trump for his stance on illegal immigration. Trump, being the type of man he is, responded in kind. McCain, despite promising to vote to repeal Obamacare during the 2016 campaign, did the opposite when the actual vote occurred, probably to spite Trump. He also shopped the disgraceful Steele dossier to the FBI to bring down Trump. After McCain's death, Trump sent out a tweet expressing his condolences. People of course went nuts, saying that Trump did not show McCain enough praise and respect. Huh? They weren't personal friends, and Trump is not a subject who needs to prostrate himself before a king. Let's pay McCain the proper respect while his family mourns and then move on.

 

Yes, the man was bipartisan, we need more of that - not less. In any case, this thread was never meant to be the avenue in which to debate his policies, it was meant to offer respect to someone who served this country for decades. Unfortunately, it has devolved into a debate about his policies, with your post being a prime example. Oh well, it is what it is.

edited: don't want to lean into the political debate

Array
 

The OP made an explicitly political argument through his assertion that McCain was one of the last men who "held up true Republican ideals." I am simply responding to that from the perspective of a conservative Republican who volunteered for and donated money to multiple presidential campaigns. Discussing McCain's record as Senator and paying due respect to his loved ones is not mutually exclusive.

 
Dances With Newfoundland:
There seem to be two radically divergent reactions to McCain's death, and I reject them both. Those on the far Left call McCain a murderer and war criminal due to his decision to fight in the Vietnam War (as if a commissioned soldier is supposed to go AWOL rather than follow his commanding officers' orders) and for his hawkish foreign policy. I'm not going to address that loony side. My interest, however, is in addressing the reaction by the liberal media, many Democrats, and the so-called Never Trump Republicans.

The reaction by the liberal media has been especially ironic due to its painfully transparent opportunism. Its praise of McCain has hinged upon its own political convenience, rather than any underlying principle. During the 2000 GOP primary, the media praised McCain as a "maverick" because he was going up against George W Bush, a man they absolutely despised. During the 2008 GOP primary, they beefed up McCain when he was in the dumps because they hated Romney and Huckabee. Then, once McCain won the nomination and went up against their messiah-Barack Obama-he was lambasted as a racist and bigot. The current praise of McCain by the media and Democrats is inherently political, as they are explicitly drawing a contrast between McCain's supposed moral superiority over Trump.

This entire post is 1000% on. What I'm quoting here is almost exactly what I wrote earlier today but the algorithm or whatever on this page deleted the post.

People don't remember how McCain the "maverick" began, but it began through the mainstream media's hatred of then-candidate George W. Bush. Until 2000, McCain was largely a straight-line Republican, but the media embraced McCain to spite Bush, and for the last 18 years McCain has bought into his own hype, moving way to the Left.

Then in 2008 the media propped up McCain in the primary, only to lambast him as a sexist, racist homophobe in the general election. Since McCain became a never-Trumper, the media re-embraced him as a maverick, cynically calling him a hero when before they lambasted him as a monster. At least those on the Left calling him a baby-killer today are consistent.

Array
 

You can "consider yourself Republican" all you want, but no self-respected conservative will ever take you seriously with your leftist CNN dogma and rambling bullshit.

 

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