It all depends on your debt payments to income (all debt including the mortgage). There are tons of up to date loan guidelines and calculators online. Whether you should buy a house sometime soon after graduation is another question entirely. I don't think it's a great idea unless you know you'll be there for a while including having room to start a family if that's in your cards in the future. Renting gives you a lot of flexibility.

 
Best Response

Like Dick and bro have said, just rent even if you end up in a corporate finance role in a smaller city. Probably even more so if you end up in a smaller city because if you don't like the job there won't be as many other job options in Des Moines as there will be in the NYC area, for example. Spend a year or two in your new job in the new city and re-evaluate your situation-the job, the city, your wife's opinion of it, kids, everything-and gauge if you're going to stay there for the long term. Buying a house just locks you in. I could give dozens of examples of people my age and younger who felt like they had to buy a house because that's what you should do and just got hammered in the housing crash because they had to move.

I'm not calling another crash, but owning a house went from something before the '90's that you bought and pretty much lived in until you paid off your 30 year note and retired that was a long term investment to a short term investment and a cash machine that you could refi every few years and pull $50k out of.

 

My classmates who went to work in Atlanta/Cleveland/Chicago/Charlotte etc after bschool bought houses almost immediately after graduating. Those of us who went off to SF/NY/HK/etc are still getting crushed by cost of living, so it seems like most ppl are just renting (progressively nicer pads) and paying down loans. It's annoying because a couple bonuses in you still don't really feel like you have much of a downpayment... but I guess in the long run I'll be glad to have shed the student loans.

 
thebrofessor:

not really a fair comparison there. the salary you'd get in the first cities you mentioned will likely afford you a livable place in the city. a most MBA salary will not afford you a livable place anywhere but the burbs. the plus side is SF is way sweeter than Cleveland, so there's that.

Post-MBA salaries are actually shockingly similar, regardless of location. Consulting pays the same exact salary whether you are in NYC or Cleveland. Even a lot of Corp 500 jobs pay ~$120k whether its NYC or Ohio.

 

Buying a coffin, I mean house, is overrated. Just pay your debt down and be free. Houses are only liquid given a long enough time line to unload them. If you're early in your career the last thing you need is inflexibility.

 

Wait a few years. Pay down the debt and accumulate some reserves (i.e., cash/investments). Lenders will definitely consider the latter when evaluating your credit and can (and will) make exceptions. Plus, your income will be higher at that point. Don't force yourself into a house with your current financial constraints. Chances are you will regret the decision a few years down the road and feel compelled to move/buy again.

 
Goinggolfing:

All of the advice to wait makes sense, but man it sucks to burn $25k+ a year when you could be building equity.

How is $2K going out the door?

In Chicago cap rates are fairly high- much higher than NYC where owning costs more than renting. A nice condo costs $1500-$2000/month. Meanwhile, after-tax cost of ownership (after accrual of equity) on the same condo is around $1200-1300.

In order to "burn" $25K/year just about anywhere, your rent has to be a good $4000-5000/mo. And in NYC, Boston, and San Fran, cap rates are low enough that you're actually losing money by buying.

My calculus is that in Chicago, I lose $300/mo to renting. It's annoying but it's the price of working in an industry with a lot of turnover in a city that only has 10% of the country's finance jobs, to avoid buying a house that costs 6% to sell.

 
IlliniProgrammer:
Goinggolfing:

All of the advice to wait makes sense, but man it sucks to burn $25k+ a year when you could be building equity.

How is $2K going out the door?

In Chicago cap rates are fairly high- much higher than NYC where owning costs more than renting. A nice condo costs $1500-$2000/month. Meanwhile, after-tax cost of ownership (after accrual of equity) on the same condo is around $1200-1300.

In order to "burn" $25K/year just about anywhere, your rent has to be a good $4000-5000/mo. And in NYC, Boston, and San Fran, cap rates are low enough that you're actually losing money by buying.

My calculus is that in Chicago, I lose $300/mo to renting. It's annoying but it's the price of working in an industry with a lot of turnover in a city that only has 10% of the country's finance jobs, to avoid buying a house that costs 6% to sell.

I don't understand the math or terms related to RE finance, please educate me : )

 
IlliniProgrammer:
Goinggolfing:

All of the advice to wait makes sense, but man it sucks to burn $25k+ a year when you could be building equity.

How is $2K going out the door?

In Chicago cap rates are fairly high- much higher than NYC where owning costs more than renting. A nice condo costs $1500-$2000/month. Meanwhile, after-tax cost of ownership (after accrual of equity) on the same condo is around $1200-1300.

In order to "burn" $25K/year just about anywhere, your rent has to be a good $4000-5000/mo. And in NYC, Boston, and San Fran, cap rates are low enough that you're actually losing money by buying.

My calculus is that in Chicago, I lose $300/mo to renting. It's annoying but it's the price of working in an industry with a lot of turnover in a city that only has 10% of the country's finance jobs, to avoid buying a house that costs 6% to sell.

I think it all depends on the deal you got. 2-3 years ago you can still find RE in NYC with positive cashflow.

I bought my NYC condo in 2012 and get around $850 using your equation:

2800 (Rent) - 1350 (1 - 37%) (interest) - 600 (maintenance) - 0 (25Y tax abatement)

The real saving is a bit more since 600 maintenance includes AC/Heat/Gym etc. Also, the living quality is significantly better:

  1. I can decorate freely and buy some fine furniture.
  2. don't need to worry about moving or finding a new place
  3. feel more secure (my girl not me)

When I bought my place, I never thought about living there for many years. It was just an investment. But it turns out to be not only a great investment (market price appreciate 30% with 20% down) but also a big living quality improvement.

 

Disclosure: I am also a licensed realtor.

Here's my honest opinion.

Regardless of whether you decide to buy now, or buy later:

  1. Figure out what your max budget is for your first home. Your actual budget should be 2/3rds to half that max number.

  2. The main purpose of your first home is to build equity. Your first home isn't your forever home. It's there to build equity that you can (hopefully) roll over to a larger home as your life changes (family).

  3. Buy a home for your current needs. Again, it's a starter home. Don't buy a 5-bedroom for your future kids in 5-10 years that you don't have yet. There is not a one-size-fits-all home for your entire life.

A good litmus test for the kind of home you should buy is this: it shouldn't be much of an upgrade (if at all, and possibly a downgrade in high cost cities) from what you're currently renting. If you're looking to buy a substantially nicer place in the same neighborhood that you're currently renting, you're probably stretching your budget a bit too much.

Oftentimes, the buying process for many of you won't be done solo, but will be a joint process with your spouse or partner. And that can be more complicated, as your other half may be less realistic, or may need more convincing when it comes to compromising.

Also for many of you, what I suggest is to save like hell right after b-school. Pay down that student loan debt. Live as frugally as you can. The more you can save now, the more grateful your future self (in your 40s) will be. With the above in mind, if you're living/working in NYC, SF, Boston, London, etc chances are buying a home right away is a non-starter (and even if you have family that will help you put down a humongous down payment, say 40-50% down, it still may not be worth it). Furthermore, as many have said here, in your first few years post-MBA, there will be a lot of horse trading going on in terms of jobs - there's a very high chance you won't be in your first post-MBA job for long (probably 1-2 years). You will be changing jobs, moving from one city to the next, and so forth for probably the first 3-5 years post-MBA, before you start to settle in on one city. And this kind of movement can be random: maybe you're at a job for 2 years, then another for just 6 months (because you end up hating it quick), and then another gig for 18 months. Eventually that settling in usually happens because of a combination of work (you find a work/lifestyle that suits you) as well as personal (you get married, have kids, etc).

Of course there's not a one-size-fits-all for every MBA grad, but for most of you, the first 5 years post-MBA from a financial standpoint should be dedicated towards paying down as much of that student loan debt as you can, saving your money and putting yourself in a position 5-10 years out to settle in (and it's then when it's the ideal time to think about buying your first home - when you aren't moving around as much, and when you likely have enough saved up for a sizeable downpayment).

Alex Chu www.mbaapply.com
 

I'm completely with @"IlliniProgrammer" here that the financial benefits of owning vs. renting are not necessarily as great or obvious as they're often made out to be. Here's the back of the envelope math I've done for the SF area:

Option 1: Rent place for $4,000/month ($48k a year).
Option 2: Buy a comparable place, roughly $1.2mm

The costs associated with option 1 are fairly straightforward; $4k a month. You're not on the hook for any maintenance, property tax, HOA fees etc.

Costs for Option 2: This assumes a 10% downpayment ($120k). Not sure if you can actually buy anything with 10% down out here, but for argument's sake... Mortgage payment using 5/1 ARM plus PMI insurance (3.71% effective rate): $5,023 Property Tax: $1,100 HOA Fees: $200 Maintenance/Repairs: $167 (assumes $2k a year) Less: Mortgage Interest Deduction: ($758) All-In Monthly Cost of Ownership: $5,732

So, on it's face, owning tends to be about $1,700 more a month than renting, which translates to about $21k a year. However, offsetting that, you are going to be building equity in your home. I get $20,208 in equity built over the first year, $21k over the second, $21.7k over the third, etc. So you can see, the equity you're building in those first few years is almost exactly equal to the savings you would generate by renting. So as far as I'm concerned, it really comes down to personal preference. Do you want to be able to do remods and change some walls around to your liking? Do you like the idea of a forced savings program where you are steadily building equity over time? Do you hate the idea of paying 6% in a few years if it turns out you need to move? Would you rather have liquid savings, or would you prefer to be 9x levered to the local housing market? Will you stay up at night wondering if/when the "Big One" is gonna to hit and destroy your home and life savings? Where is your conviction level on the path of real estate prices?

Obviously the math will vary in different metros, but for SF I just don't see much of a FINANCIAL reason to own vs. renting. Again, if you have a fat downpayment (e.g. $400k+ out here) than the story becomes completely different...

 
thebrofessor:

I could not imagine buying a place in an earthquake stricken area. at least down here, you can see a hurricane coming. kudos to anyone who buys in SF, you've got balls.

tornado/hurricane bunkers >> hide under desk in "oh shit" position

of course then you guys get the looters in the aftermath. We all know no one in the Bay Area would think of looting after a quake...

 

Check out SoFi.com. It was premised on the idea that well educated younger professionals with high income should be superior credit risks on their student loans than the general population in the government-dominated student loan market. They're now taking it a step further by offering mortgages (on a limited basis to date) to that same customer base which is not well served by typical underwriting criteria in the traditional banking system, i.e. younger folks with high income (and also quite employable in any economy) who don't have 2 year working histories at current job, high amount of student loans, no significant wealth/collateral/down-payment, who live in high COL MSAs. The result is a 10% down payment jumbo mortgage with NO PMI at credit limits far higher than traditional lenders at reasonable mortgage rates. It may or may not alter your decision, but I think it's a great idea and product.

 

No factors in intangibles. Like you get more than 4 walls with an apt. Most come with gyms, door man, maintenance, etc. No upkeep whatsoever. No redoing a kitchen or bathroom. You can choose the space you need perfectly. You have ultimate flexibility for jobs and life events.

Buying a house is fine, but renting has its benefits also. It isn't black and white.

 

Judging from what he said, it sounds like similar loans that are given to physicians. Great if you can get it when you're ready to buy. My main point is the possibility that you live in a place you're not planting roots in and need to move faster than your house can sell. Highly unlikely you'll get a big enough raise to pay for 2 houses without reducing your lifestyle.

Lots of good banter in this thread. OP, just ask yourself where you want to be long term, how's the market in that area, and what's your budget. Talk to colleagues who have settled down, talk to classmates, even if you want to buy you should at least rent for a year to get the lay of the land

 

Vero quasi quaerat debitis. Quia ex sit deserunt omnis voluptatum vel. Magnam necessitatibus ut ad explicabo. Autem minus et voluptatem minus aliquid quia non animi. Qui et exercitationem sed sunt recusandae.

Id ut in repellat quibusdam numquam. Ratione dolores voluptates voluptatibus cum voluptates adipisci architecto. Ut consequuntur dolor aliquam et autem nam quos quibusdam. Quidem totam sed est commodi omnis.

 

In ut repudiandae nulla maxime voluptas natus doloribus. Omnis saepe accusantium cupiditate rerum enim est ipsa. Soluta et commodi quis quis non et aut. Consequatur similique omnis corrupti. Error cupiditate illum officia nihil dicta.

Itaque illo et ab saepe culpa. Nobis voluptatibus consectetur non nam voluptatem rerum. Architecto deserunt aut non rem assumenda repellendus est. Quis voluptate culpa omnis unde ex magnam atque non. Autem nobis tempore sequi.

Career Advancement Opportunities

April 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. New 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

April 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

April 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

April 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (87) $260
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (14) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (205) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (146) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
5
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
6
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
7
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
8
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
9
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.8
10
Linda Abraham's picture
Linda Abraham
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”