Rothschild London vs BBs
In London, where would you place Rothschild amongst the BBs? Over which BBs would you pick Rothschild?
Thanks
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I wouldn't place it above any of them.
I'd place it more towards the strong MM pile (with Jefferies)
For reference prospects, ^ this is what a retard looks like.
Rothschild is one of the most elite independent advisory firms in Europe (with a slightly weaker brand name in the US which they are working on improving). In terms of prestige, dealflow in London it would rank above low tier BBs and on par with mid-tier BBs
Thank you! This is what I've heard as well - if by low tier you mean UBS/DB/Barclays and mid tier BAML/Citi (perhaps CS in between)?
Mid Tier would be BAML/Citi/CS. Also depends if you want to be a career banker. If you do, Rothschild is a great place to be
In 2017 they were 5th in m&a by value (emea)
https://www.thomsonreuters.co.jp/content/dam/openweb/documents/pdf/japa…
They also churned through 350 deals to get to that number
True, but they have also been in large deals in some sectors like energy, consumer staples/retail, and healthcare
I wouldn’t choose RTH over any of the above mentioned BBs
GS > MS > Rothschild > JPM > other bulge bracket
No
Thanks for the advice, Analyst 1 at Rothschild
Bump. Also interested in how Lazard compares to the top/mid BB's
Below the US BB's and above the European BBs.
Below Citi?
Personally my ranking would be:
GS
MS/JP
Laz/PJT
RTH/BofA
Citi/Evercore/PWP/CS
Moelis/Barclays/UBS/Gleacher/Greenhill
The Rest
but some would rank citi and bofa above Roth’s but I think the exit opps between these 3 are fairly similar if you’re a strong candidate.
Are you really sure that RTH has better exits than Citi and CS…
I didn’t say better I said similar. Class sizes are very different but I’ve seen a fair few profiles exiting from strong teams at Roth’s info top PE firms and apparently in London it’s more about languages and deal experience so what do I know- probably talking out my a**.
Gleacher really on the same level as Barclays/UBS/Moelis??
A lot of interns spreading misinformation in this thread.
1. RTH competes in MM predominantly (sub PS 1bn deals)
2. Yes, they occasionally do big deals but you'd be working on MM transactions mostly
3. It's a well-known fact around the city that you get a name discount (low bonus) for working there. Which would be justified if you worked on actually big deals, but if you do, it's the exception rather than the rule. So the discount is not really worth the name.
No one in their right mind would pick them over any BB.
Not sure where you get the information about bonus discount, as someone who has worked there I can confirm this is not true. It is slightly above what BBs pay but below what the top payers (PJT etc.) offer.
Yes Rothschild do a lot of MM deals, but at least in London that is due to their strength in the UK where most of the deals are in MM.
From people that work/have worked there.
Unless you were sleeping with your boss, Rothschild in London definitely does not pay higher than BBs. I worked there and left to a BB (I earn about 20% more on a total comp basis here than I did at Roths), associate bonuses at Roths are below BBs and significantly lower than top EBs like CVT/PJT.
They're also a massive sweatshop, my hours were significantly worse there than in my current role at a BB.
That’s ridiculous. Find me the person who’s taking UBS/DB or Barclays over Rothschild in London.
Most of the people that are actually in IB, Prospect. Not your classmates that are talking rubbish without even having offers.
[ ... ]
Ok Roths intern - get a FT job first then run your mouth
Can confirm this is inaccurate. RTH pays base slightly higher than bb and as well as slightly higher bonus. Overall comp is less than Centerview / PJT / Mid-market but better than BB.
Simple look at the league table reveals they are top 5 in Europe for M&A recently (with trend of working on 1bn+ deals in the past 3 years), and search on Linkedin shows excellent exits with several people at large hedge funds and top PE houses.
Generally, RTH and Lazard are in line with BAML, Citi; better than rest of bulge bracket in Europe. Probably best name recognition among all banks in Europe (Several high profile politicians worked there, well known family, vineyards etc..)
they are also a total fucking sweatshop and churn through mid-market deals like crazy. sure there is the occasional large cap but don't expect to get on one unless you are top ranked / lucky.
In London Rothschild definitely does not pay higher than BB. I worked there and left to a BB (I earn about 20% more on a total comp basis here than I did at Roths), associate bonuses at Roths are below BBs and significantly lower than top EBs like CVT/PJT.
They're also a massive sweatshop, my hours were significantly worse there than in my current role at a BB so if I was to guess I probably earn something like 30% more on an hourly basis.
How would you say Evercore compares to the BBs?
Similar as Roths- they don’t. They do a lot of MM deals with lower dealflow basically. Most large EMEA deals with EVR are done from the US.
Can you please provide your source re "Most large EMEA deals with EVR are done from the US." Thanks
Tired of seeing threads tryin to pass RTH as a BB equivalent/contestant/alternative.
Super good bank with great dealflow but pure MM - I know I know, they've done some mega deals but that's rare. Also, chasing anything that pays their minimum fee is ridiculous.
No clue who pushes Rothschild and Lazard on WSO but for EMEA they are a strong mid market player, that's it. Why would you choose that over any BB?
Ate a lot of MS last time already but still everyone in my year would have picked PJT, Centerview and PWP above them as well as any BB. Only different if you join and already know that you want to end up in mid cap PE, for that RS might be great.
I don’t know a single perso who would have gone to CW/PWP over Roth/Laz.
Also if we’re talking pure perception, Roth,Laz simply have a brand equity that is unmatched by any other bank except GS, MS, JPM and maybe BAML. Especially for Europeans. Not saying they’re better, but brand equity is very good. For that reason they’re perceived better by students than comparable boutiques (probably including EVR, PJT, etc.) - which obviously would change when they have a £120k offer from EVR/PJT on the table.
Agreed. No one from my target would pick DB/UBS/Barclays over RTH or Lazard. If you have a brit with no languages at UBS or a European guy with 3 languages doing HC at RTH/LAZ pretty sure the latter will have a better chance at MF PE (chance being an incredibly slim one but still).
What's "brand equity" supposed to be? That people on the street know the name Rothschild?
Also not sure why you would list Evercore in one go with PJT for EMEA
Finally someone saying this. Rothschild name prestige is incredible in Europe. The French PM was a senior banker there and many others very high profile people across Europe used to work there. Given people seem to like prestige, here you have it. May it change in the future? Maybe, not yet though
Can confirm Macron (who btw is the President and not the PM) was a Partner at Rothschild within the M&A team, actually the youngest ever (32 yo).
Can someone comment on what their culture is actually like? I have been seeing conflicting views on this.
On the one hand they love to sell their tight-knit and friendly culture because they’re family run. On the other hand I read on here that they are as much of a sweatshop as Lazard or even more so and still work on smaller deals than the BBs.
Does the Rothschild discount (similar to the goldman discount) actually exist?
In general I wonder whether the banks that sell their culture incredibly hard (Evercore/Jef/Greenhill/Roths) are the biggest sweatshops there are. Similar to the firms that like to sell their diversity initiatives are usually firms that are the least diverse.
Bump
Rothschild focuses on volume vs quality - tons of sell sides (for PE) - hence very sweaty, would try to win mandates by cutting their own fees. PE clients are notoriously difficult to work with. Stories I've heard from Roths is that there is a lot of politics (even at the junior level) where people talk shit about others (e.g. if you go to the gym they talk shit about you)
Lazard - only does strategics based advisory (at least what I've heard). Analysts only model and output the models, no "content" slides are created by the analysts (this is done by Associate / VP) - no comment on culture
Jeff - no comment
Evercore - depends on which team you join.
Thanks for the info on Roths. Surprised to hear that there's a lot of politics at the junior level so it's good to know. Mostly sell-sides sound like a real grind.
To your knowledge are the PCA and PFG teams at Evercore more separated from the M&A teams? Are they more standalone?
Interesting take on Lazard, did not know this. What do you mean by content slides? If it's showing a buyers list and having the rationale as to why they are a good buyer I would definitely be happy to let my associate take that
Can you share the same insights for EVR which you did for Roths? Really interested to hear about the different teams in London, particularly energy
Rothschild on par with Lazard, which are traditionally the strongest EB in Europe.
GS/MS/JPM > RTH/LAZ > BAML, Citi > others
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I wrote a lot about it here: https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/seeking-advice-ibd-sa-london-offers-citi-vs-rothschild-vs-nomura
All in all it's a good shop but culture and hours are quite bad that's all (for a job where hours are known to be bad).
Mostly because culture is one of their main selling points when they hire students coming out of uni, but they turn out to be an even bigger sweatshop than other places
I am European and this is the ranking most of my co-students had when deciding on offers in London:
GS
MS/JP
BAML/Citi
Roth/Laz
Other BB/ EB
In Paris, it would be:
GS
MS/JP
Roth/Laz
BAML/Citi
Other BB/ EB
That's quite accurate and also how I'd recommend to choose being on the other side (purely on a name basis, of course can drastically differ depending on the team). Might want to pick Evercore, Centerview, PJT or PWP if you want to maximize comp (30-50% upside on junior level already) and / or are thinking about long-term career in banking.
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How about HL rx?
I am British and this is the ranking most of my co-students had when deciding on offers in London:
GS/MS
JP
US EBs
BAML
Citi/CS
Roth/Laz
Other BB/ EB
Roth/Laz would be higher if they pay at these firms wasn’t horrendously bad.
I always find it funny when people put MS/GS in a different category to JPM despite JPM absolutely killing it in IBD for many years (& consistently outperforming MS). It's also funny how US WSO culture perpetuates itself in the UK and all the misinformed undergrads circle jerk EB's to each other.
These student rankings are like bicycle owners ranking supercar brands... absolutely useless.
Full disclosure; I don't work for JPM
Centerview does two deals a year in London good luck taking that over BAML or Citi
MS smashes JPM in M&A league tables year after year and fluctuates between #1 and #2 in ECM with GS. You're going to have to do better than that to convince ppl you don't work at JPM
Notice how there was no clarification of where IBD revenues came from. On an all in basis, MS has not done better than JPM in IB revenues for years. M&A is a different story.
At my UK target (Oxbridge), this is the general preference of most students:
1. GS / MS
2. JPM
3. BofA / Citi
4. PJT / Evercore / Centerview
5. Rothschild / Lazard
6. Rest of the BBs
You have made 4 comments on this site, and they are all about rankings.
Probably likes saying that he goes to Oxbridge each time.
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Team dependent.
Here's what I've seen peers do so far. This is purely anecdotal and just observations based on what others have done.
- Person 1: Took PJT over Lazard
- Person 2: Took Centerview over Rothschild
- Person 3: Took GS over LMM PE
- Person 4: Took MS over JPM
- Person 5: Took Citi over a UK boutique
From students who’ve never worked in banking before? Nobody cares what their rankings are, even from Oxbridge
X
Below most BBs but would also depend on the teams for some of the BBs. They are a great name yes, but it's a volume shop and will work any deal that pays the minimum fee or sometimes even lower. No thank you.
Mainly engage in MM size deals (although this doesn’t matter at all for anything lmao) in London they’re 4th largest in terms of revenue generated from fees despite being a boutique. It’s known for creating career bankers moreso than BBs. In terms of reputation/prestige; well this is harder to connote. Within finance it’s weak in America but very elite and strong in EMEA/APAC, especially in London so is very well respected. Outside of finance it’s one of the banks that carries a strong brand name that the average person will probably have heard of it and respect it. Probably on par w MS for that.
for exits: it’s pretty much Citi/BAML level as most EBs in London are.
Honestly I wouldn’t take Roths over any BB on a personal level.
However, it all comes down to individual preferences. If you don’t mind working primarily on MM deals then it’s fine. You can go on as you may.
However I still feel that I’d prefer to get on the BB experience and deal flow (esp if placed on a strong team) in contrast to MM deal experience. But again, this varies case by case.
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