Won't waste time whining; here's the lowdown:
-- Semi-target, 3.3 GPA double major in Finance/Economics, graduating this May
-- Sent resumes to 80+ firms, including all BBs/MMs/elite boutiques along with a ton of local boutiques.
-- Have gotten ~15 first-rounds (mainly MMs and elite boutiques; think Laz/Evercore/Miller Buckfire) and 6 superdays, no offers.
-- Cold-called 40+ firms, most respond with either "Get in touch with us closer to your graduation date" or "We're not hiring for full-time entry-level analysts right now."
-- Networked extensively, mainly through alums, LinkedIn, and phone calls.
I've been targeting ER, although I will not complain at all about an IB offer.
I'm not quite sure what else to do, short of continuing on as I have been and hoping someone takes a chance on me. Should I attempt to apply for SA positions? Try to get unpaid spring internships? Attempt to write my own reports and publish them on SeekingAlpha or something to prove my interest? Honestly, I'm out of ideas and the bleakness of the job market nowadays doesn't help at all. It also seems really late to be STILL searching for FT offers - most firms have wrapped that up...
[Post-mortem note: this was written before I knew that my school was actually a target. Goes to show what a poorly-research nooblet I was. Also means that I sucked more than I thought. Ah well.]
keep it wet and cup the balls?
getting those interview you mentioned is pretty impressive with a 3.3 gpa. It is a tough market, keep at it. i'm in a similar situation.
i would def. make this semester highly productive (internship, publish ur shit, financial modeling training, networking) good luck.
Agreed. its an incredible feat to get interviews with such a low gpa...considering elite boutiques dont look at you if you dont have a 3.7 during OCR.
I think you need to work on your interview skills...15 first rounds is a lot of chances
This. Even that amount of interviews is impressive for a 3.3 gpa. And 6 superdays where there are only 1-3 candidates and you were chosen for none of them? Maybe you smell bad or something.
i actually think that's where 3.3 semi-target kills you, when there is a direct comparison to be made between you and some kid from a better school with better grades. Before that, someone mid-level batting for can keep you in the game, but the final hiring decision you need to impress everyone enough that they take a chance, the analysts want to work with you, and the MDs can feel comfortable hiring you
or do something related for a couple years (big 4), then gmat and bschool and you should be set
You need to Network, Network, Network. I had a smiliar situation when I was going through recruitment: sub 3.5 GPA, semi/non-target, liberal arts major....had 20+ first rounds, 4 superdays, 1 IBD offer. It happens...but happy to help if I can...PM me.
The problem for him isn't networking but rather it's that he can't close any of the leads (ie: super days).
have you tried contacting some of the people you interviewed with? shoot a quick couple line e-mail asking if there's something you can improve upon...6 s'days and no offers...rough. good luck
As others have stated, it sounds like your weakness is interviewing. If it's that you just do poorly because of nerves, then that is something you can work on. If it's because you naturally come off as someone who no interviewer wants to work with, then you have a problem that can't be fixed.
I don't think applying for SA positions is going to help you because you're going to run into the same question every time regarding why you are in this position. Networking your ass off is just about your only hope at this stage in the game.
On a side note, why did Pike deserve MS?
I know i made that crass remark in the beginning, and I may sound like and even bigger jerk because of this, but what do you look like? how are you dressing to these things... because 15 interviews and 6 superdays really is alot...
your stats fucking suck, what did you expect? the sense of entitlement here is fucking ridiculous.
This isn't strictly wrong, but to get so many super days with a 3.3 from a semi target means he's doing SOMETHING right. I have a feeling its more about composure and soft factors than anything. Doing a 6 hour superday is a lot harder than a 30 minute phone interview where you just don't have to fuck up too bad. Maybe OP isn't taking any risks, not differentiating himself from the competition, giving safe answers, or just being awkward in general.
Can we be friends?
I've spoken with some of my superday interviewers; apparently I don't sound "interested enough" in IB/ER judging from my past experiences. Understandable, since I only decided on finance in my junior year (although I had an SA position last summer at MM for IB, they don't do return offers)... which is why I'm now asking, what are some things I can do now to further show interest in the job area? I've done both BIWS and WSPrep, I follow the markets, yadayada. Short of the obvious things (investing, organizations, modeling classes, etc.), what else can a person do to distinguish themselves and "show their passion"?
Seriously though, how on God's good earth do you not get a job out of 15 interviews???
It irritates me when interviewers are cryptic like this. What they should of said is your competitive peers sounded more interested then you did, not that you didnt sound interested enough. Again, this just reflects how competitve this year's talent pool is. You're obviously interested enough in finance.
You're a fucking tool
you are a fucking tool.
WORK ON YOUR INTERVIEWING SKILLS MAN!
Any tips on how to improve interviewing skills? I know WSO has a mock interview thing but 200 is a lot for an undergrad....
Strange that you would have 6 superday interviews and 0 offers to show for it. Your GPA isnt the issue, you are passing that screen by getting first round interviews. Your attitude isnt the problem, you are passing the 1st/2nd rounds and moving onto supers. Lack of networking doesnt seem to be the case, nor is the lack of relevant internship exp.
The issue is an over-competitive talent pool in a down year. Finance job mkt is awful this year (like 2009 awful). Something like 200k finance employees got laid off in 2011, with more projected in 2012. There was a detailed discussion about layoffs this year on this site, it was grim.
Really, there isnt much more you can do other than network more. I recommend you seek other opportunities. Not the advice you wanted, I know, but there is a big world out there outside of finance. Good luck.
Straight up learn to interview. Don't need to network more. Interview better. Also the job market sucks...but you should be able to close at least 1 of 6 superdays.
I agree that not getting any results from 6 superdays indicates that there is something wrong with your interviewing skills (although to be fair it sounds like you were interviewing at smaller places without many spots on offer).
I dont think the OP's interviewing skills were the issue. If that was the case, she wouldnt have gotten 6 super days.
OP's luck is outside of her control now. There is near nothing OP could do that would increase her chances in this year's recruiting cycle.
I disagree. 6 superdays out of 15 interviews doesn't sound very good to me either.
To the OP, you clearly have the CV and networking if you got 15 interviews. But if out of that you only got 6 superdays and 0 offers you clearly are doing something wrong at interviews. Unfortunately we can't help you there, since we haven't actually seen you interview. If interviewers are telling you that, it might be that even though you clearly have the interest your communication skills are not great and that interest is not coming across during the interview. I will say that I found WSO Behavioral Interview Guide very helpful in learning how to convey your message clearly.
I am shocked that you landed that many interviews with 3.3 GPA from a non target college. that's sick. I know many kids from Ivies with 3.5+ GPA who got like 2 interviews.
Btw, how did you not end up with an offer, after having like 15 interviews?? Such a waste of an opportunity. If I got that many interviews and fucked things up, I would fucking cut my balls off or something
^ Dude, if I knew the answer to that question I wouldn't be posting here :( I can't say I'm not pissed off, but I suppose I just don't interview very well despite practicing. Just need to try harder, I guess!
Damn dude, I feel ya. Btw, congrats on getting such many interviews with 3.3 GPA, honestly, that's fucking ballin'. I haven't heard of anyone at my college (ivy) with gpa around yours having such success in landing so many interviews. That's fucking sick.
But, going 0 for 15 means there is clearly something about your interviewing ability that needs to be evaluated. If i had that great of an opportunity and fucked things up, I would be so fucking pissed I will break my laptop, get fucking drunk, buy some prostitutes, and start hate fucking for like 5 days like a fucking ape.
He goes to a semi-target....
OP it's a 'you' problem, fix it.
Black?
You're an asian chick and you can't get offers? You must be ugly, brah. troof.
wear a shorter skirt to interviews and cleave it up too
I'm with RE Capital Markets on this. I think the OP is probably a pretty good interviewer to have gotten 6 superdays out of 15 first round interviews. And I think many of you are over estimating how easy it is these days to get an offer out of a superday. I know at several firms you can have as many as 10-20 kids interviewing for 1 full time offer slot. Those aren't great odds, and at the superday stage you are going against some very good candidates; if there are target school candidates there on the same day you might be at an even bigger disadvantage. Offers are very hard to come by. Keep your chin up OP - you are doing plenty right.
any truth to this speculation that there is 20:1 competition at superday to get an offer? This sounds way too competitive, and doesn't sound right. usually, most people get 4-5 superdays and they end up with an offer or two. if it was this hard to get an offer after superday stage, I don't think anyone would get an offer.
I'll interview you.
But the leads are weak . . .
No, you're weak.
i'll bet anything that this chick isn't hot.
You need to turn the interview so that they are trying to impress you just as much as you are trying to impress them.
How dare you insult my appearance! -sob- Hot is subjective, I try my best with what I've got :P and even if I didn't, that's not something I can fix -without- a hefty bonus to pay for my plastic surgery :( Man, what a circular issue.
Didn't interview at BB's (no way could I have gotten there with my shitty GPA). Although a friend at an Ivy said that MS only took 2 from their superday. I interviewed with 3 elite boutiques. First rounds at Greenhill/Evercore and superday at Lazard in a regional office - there were 10 candidates and 1 available position.This is brutal. Was your office in large city, like Chicago or LA?
Try to go for Big4 accounting or F500 corp finance. Get 3-4 years of experience, then go for top 10 MBA. After that, getting into banking as an associate won't be too difficult. Try to take some comfort knowing that being an IB analyst kind of sucks...
200 bucks is a small price to pay for the job you want...buy the interviewing guide.
The funnel for all boutiques is brutal. 200-300 applicants per opening and you have to convince them you are the best.
How about BB? Is it actually harder to get an offer from elite boutiques than BB because they hire less?
^^ Truth
You can ride my bike.
bikes are fun
Is it true that if you were interviewed in a division at a BB and fail it you will not be interviewed again in that division a that bank?
I totally feel ya!
Recruiting this year has proven to be a nightmare, and I think many people here with jobs don't fully understand just how bad the job market is right now for new grads. I'm from a top target in the UK + relevant internship at a BB and it's still been hopeless and frustrating. I've had 4 interviews with BBs and have 0 offers. Mind you, the finance job market in London is arguably worse than the US and I'm interviwing for S&Troles. I have a friend who recently got a BB FT sales offer- they hired 2 people from something like 14,000 applicants.
The reality is that in this market, the positions are extremely limited while applicants are numerous and 20 people interviewing for 1-2 positions at superdays is the norm. At the final interviews I've been to (we call them assessment centres), many candidates are exceptional, so even though I do believe I'm good enough, it often boils down to the luck of the draw.
I think the fact that you've gotten that many superdays from first rounds speaks for your interview skills. I think we just ended up getting really unlucky in terms of the timing of our graduation. Can I just say I really admire your optimism and I really think everything will work out for you with your attitude! I was just wallowing in self-pity after a particularly frustrating week of job hunting and you've inspired me to stop moping and keep fighting
I am senior at a non-target and I can tell you its really rough for me as well. Only had 1 Superday and networked like crazy and had those I networked with have my resume dropped off, but nothing. And since I go to a non-target not many banks recruit and even B.O and M.O recruiting has been terrible for my school. Shit sucks, I am looking at delaying graduation and coming in as a S.A or take somewhat of a decent job and try to go for a Master in finance or suck it in and go for a MBA 3-5 years down the line, hoping the ambition and will power is still there. Best of luck to you, I feel your pain..
Hi, Chicandtoughness.
Have you been able to obtain an offer yet?
Same situation. Trying to get into Institutional Sales. 2 degrees B+ and B averages respectively. Experience in a commercial bank, investments, etc. multiple licenses. All I can say is good luck!
I hope things turn around soon.
Same situation. Trying to get into Institutional Sales. 2 degrees B+ and B averages respectively. Experience in a commercial bank, investments, etc. multiple licenses. All I can say is good luck!
I hope things turn around soon.
Wow, way to revive an old thread. No offer yet, still doing the same thing (cold calls/emails/networking, etc.) but I'm fairly hopeful something will come up by graduation. If I can't make it into IB/ER then I'm perfectly fine with taking a position in something like accounting/corpfin or even consulting/marketing until I can go back for my MBA. It's a bit of a setback but nothing I can't overcome.
Good luck to you too, TraderDaily.
Thank you. You too!
can we start a thread with places that people know of that are still hiring
I'm interviewing with a few BBs right now for off cycle internships so I know they're hiring in Europe. I'm also about to have a first round with a European non-BB ibank for FT S&T. Other than that, hedge funds/im's have ad-hoc postings and I've interviewed with two so far.
Can someone tell me if I'm overlooking any investment banks in Atlanta with Sales and Trading? Here's what I have in Atlanta so far: SunTrust RH Sterne Agee Cantor Fitzgerald UBS Credit Suisse Lazard Capital Markets (??) Baird Keefe, Bruyette and Woods
Thanks.
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