Attractiveness of Pre MBA Experience
Hey WSO!
As there is often discussion about what constitutes "elite work experience", I wanted to get everyone's thoughts on this matter. There is little to no disagreement that the traditional prestigious pre MBA roles are (IB, consulting, PE) etc. However, how is Big 4 audit or F500 FP&A / Corp Accounting experience viewed by Adcoms for top MBA programs? Now I am not talking about H/S/W but more in the range of lower Top 10 - 20 schools. Is an accounting based background perceived that negatively if a candidate aims to switch to a consulting role post MBA? I am trying to gauge the competitiveness of my profile for the range of schools I am aiming to apply for and I do realize its a holistic approach to admissions. Basically, are Adcoms going to be completely turned off by F200 FP&A experience and a CPA designation (Hint, yes that is my profile)? I realize its not the most thrilling experience which is why I want to pursue an MBA. I figured that if I started out my career in such a field, I might as well try to excel in it and at least secure my designation. Love to hear everyone's thoughts.
Cheers!
I guess this type of experience is not only a turn off for Adcoms but WSO also :( lol
Yes, I agree with Strictly Bizness...
That background will qualify you for top business schools, including MBA business schools ">M7, but you'll need to develop ways to differentiate yourself from other candidates with similar backgrounds. Some combination of 750+ GMAT, strong extracurriculars, especially good rec letters and/or unusually rapid career growth/other indicators of high performance at work. That background will also make you a viable candidate from an experience standpoint for IB/Consulting if that's your goal.
Agreed with the comments above. I had a somewhat similar profile to you, and I ended up at Booth. The work experience treated me just fine in consulting recruiting as well - just be a strong performer in your roles, don't be a dick to people, get involved with EC stuff and you'll be fine. Also, make sure you really know what you bring to the table / why you need b school to achieve your goals.
I did also score well on the GMAT (750) which helped, but I don't think a crazy good score is required for lots of schools in the 10-15 range
ConsultingQuant That is so awesome that you ended up at Booth ( I wish lol).
Okay I feel more reassured that my work experience wont necessarily hinder my chances at pursuing the most MBA field that I want thanks to you both. I believe I have performed well in my roles and have had the opportunity to transition a few times. I always hear mixed reviews about this but are increases in salary an indication of career progression for adcoms? Also for schools in the 10-15 would a GMAT of 700-730 be sufficient to offset a lower gpa (3.1) with the assumption everything else in line in terms of recs, ECs, etc? I feel like a 750 will go a long way but not sure if I can hit that mark.
Why not? Your decision seems reasonable. Some friends of mine still do not think about experience despite of being MBA students. They even can not imagine what trouble waiting for them.
Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts, appreciate it. Did you ever think about making your own business or smth? I think that if you're smart enough you can success in any business you'd like. My opinion.
Pre-MBA Work Experience Dilemma (Originally Posted: 06/10/2011)
I just returned from 2 years of Peace Corps service and am thinking I will work for 3 years or so (equity research or possibly consulting) and then go back to school for an MBA, assuming that is the best career move at that point. I know the Peace Corps route is not traditional, but it was a personal goal so bear with me.
My dilemma is that I have a 6-8 month period before I know where I am going to be living for the next 2 yrs (girlfriend grad school situation- could be staying in the same place but also could be moving). I am worried that if I get a job and then bail on them after a year, it is going to look bad for MBA, future employers, and generally just burn bridges.
Does anyone have any advice on whether it would be best to: 1. Look for a job in my target areas and potentially leave the firm after one year. 2. Try and find a good short-term job, plus study for the CFA (boost my resume), and wait until I know where I am going to be living.
If the short-term job option is best- any ideas on what would go the furthest to improve my resume during this period? Thanks is advance for any advice.
peace corps is awesome... assuming if you were in the business development end helping do microfinance and stuff like that for small ventures and businesses in developing areas. teaching english mmm not so much but cool overall haha (just giving you shit but personally id only do it for the former :) which did u do?)
this also is a potent venom to swallow but ultimately you have to be VERY careful with making career decisions especially with love life -- meaning dont give up a great opportunity for a much more mediocre one for love. my senior year i decided to have no ties to any girls and not date so i wouldnt have any hopeless romantic side crop up and tell me to stay at some shitty job in CT so i could be with a girlfriend of a few years -- besides you guys stayed together through out peace corps or is this a two month thing?
Did economic development in Peace Corps- mostly agribusiness, a little microfinance. Relationship started well before PC and lasted throughout, so have to factor it in career-wise.
Find temporary work. You'll have a good reason.
Find temp work, or if your financial situation allows, try to volunteer somewhere and make a difference. 6-8 months of temp back office-like work won't help your application at all, only your wallet, marginally.
Volunteering at a non-profit or starting your own should be easy, especially with the Peace Corps branding and experience you have. Go make a difference at home. You will undoubtedly have great application and essay material.
Unique Pre-MBA Experiences (Originally Posted: 03/06/2013)
Hello all,
I am trying to build my profile early for MBA applications. There is no doubt in my mind that I will be applying after gaining 3 or 4 years of experience. Prior to applying, I would like to do something off the beaten path such as a non-profit in a low income country.
To clarify, because I know this will come up, I would not be doing this simply for the sake of improving my b-school application. This has always been something I have wanted to do, and I know if I don’t do it prior to B-school and while I am young, then it will never happen. Can anyone speak to such experiences? Any recommendations about specific programs and details about your experience would be incredibly helpful.
I am a recent graduate working for a nichey, buy-side PE fund in NYC. I volunteer with a Big Brother, Big Sister program and am getting more involved within the program in addition to simply mentoring. I graduated from a top state UG b-school with a lower GPA 3.3-3.4 and am currently scoring between 700 and 740 on Kaplan CATs. With all that being said, where should my expectations be regarding the MBA business schools">m7 schools?
I did Peace Corps, which I'd say is more on the hardcore side of the spectrum, after 4 years of finance and before bschool. There are also things such as Technoserve. If you dig around there are a decent amount of programs out there. I enjoyed my experience but my expectations were nothing what my actual experience was. I got, as well as my peers, pretty jaded but I think that comes with the territory of actually being on the front lines of such work.
Appreciate the response - If you don't mind sharing, where did you do Peace Corps? And why did you choose PC over other options?
I was in a spanish speaking country. Honestly I didn't even look into other programs. I just always wanted to do the Peace Corps. I didn't even know other programs existed at the time I applied. I didn't really do much research, rather just applied to PC.
B-schools eat this stuff up, especially H and S. You see tons of kids that do IB for 2-3 years, and then go do a non-profit for a year or so while studying for the GMAT. Although to me it seems clear what these kids motivations are for doing the non-profit (i.e. they aren't really interested but know it makes them really well rounded and attractive as a candidate), the business schools absolutely love it. Go to gmatclub.com (sorry WSO, love you) to see a bunch of threads on this.
Also another comment, while it might be something you consider to be rare and unique, you'd be surprised how many kids at bschool have experiences like this. While I'm sure it is no doubt helpful, it is not so out there to truly separate you from the pack. I think what happens is you are just compared to other nonprofit types. So as you stated do it because you want to not because it will help you - think of benefits as just icing on the cake.
Pre-MBA Work Experience Thoughts (Originally Posted: 06/25/2014)
Hi all,
After two years of big 4 audit and two years of big 4 valuation going straight to b-school is obviously an option; however, the wrestle I am currently having is would moving to another position (say BB IB or MM PE) for two more years (6 years of work experience total) of great work experience help or detract from my b-school application (let's say M7)? I realize it may depend somewhat but would be appreciative/interested in anyone's thoughts and/or anecdotal experience. I also realize the avg. MBA work experience is 3-5 so the question is would going on the long end of the work experience spectrum be potentially offset by the incremental two years of great work experience?
Thanks in advance.
"Great work experience" is relative to the overall narrative. What story would your audit -> valuation -> IB/PE tell? How is MBA a natural continuation of that story?
As an aside, Big 4 -> PE would be a very difficult jump without a family friend to pull you in.
I don't think it hurts you too much to have 6 years... so long as you're showing a positive progression
Pre-MBA Experience (Originally Posted: 06/25/2012)
I think I'd like to do Equity Research post-MBA--I worked as an analyst at a hedge fund in college and really enjoyed it.
I'm currently a paralegal at a white shoe law firm, but have the option of switching to a third-party investor relations firm that concentrates on 2-3 specific sectors. Would this be a signficant improvement in pre-MBA experience, or would I get labeled as a PR person?
How did you go from analyst at hedge fund in college to paralegal. You need to do everything you can to get better experience if you intend on going to a top-tier school and transition into ER.
My FT offer at the hedge fund where I interned was rescinded a week before graduation. i had to scramble to find a job because it was too late to do OCR, and it was the best I could get at the last minute.
If you were working at a hedge fund as an intern and had a full time offer, I am sure you have a solid background. Why can't you find a better job than the two listed above (investor relations/paralegal)? What city are you in?
On another note, is an MBA necessary for equity research? I was under the impression that it wasn't. Might want to go networking, CFA, route? I don't know..
I'm in New York. I went to a T10 LAC, but I majored in European history--I was at a hedge fund that is unusually friendly to liberal arts majors.
I've gotten interviews at consulting firms through networking but nothing so far has panned out. I've been told my stats are high enough to get into an MBA business schools">M7 with just the paralegal job though, which is why I thought I could network as an IR person, go to Chicago or NYU, and then transition to equity research post-MBA.
It seems like the job market for ER is really bad right now, but that's just my superficial impression.
I have thought about the IR route and have spoken with a number of individuals in the industry (I just graduated from b-school). While I appreciate the exposure to investors and a specific company/industry, my opinion is: don't do it. IR is a great career path if you already have the technical skills (those technical skills by the way are what distinguish a good IR person from a mediocre one but some reason are not necessarily held in as high regard as other skills in the profession). It sounds like you're fairly early in your career, so my advice would be get those technical skills first especially if your end goal is ER.
Career options - Pre-MBA work experience (Originally Posted: 08/24/2008)
Hello
I am planning to break into Investment Banking/Consultancy after taking my MBA.
What kind of Pre-MBA working experience is more important: As a corporate finance Analyst/Associate or some general management experience as Deputy Managing Director?
What of the above two roles will add myself more value at the moment of application.
Thanks
Hello
I am planning to break into Investment Banking/Consultancy after taking my MBA.
What kind of Pre-MBA working experience is more important: As a corporate finance Analyst/Associate or some general management experience as Deputy Managing Director?
What of the above two roles will add myself more value at the moment of application.
Thanks
Choice between two Pre-MBA positions right before b-school with a desire to be in traditional PE. (Originally Posted: 01/16/2012)
My goal is to be in traditional PE and will be attending b-school in about two years.
I have two choices currently:
Pre-MBA Associate position at a start-up PE firm that focuses on Farmland. The position is unstructured and a majority of my duties would revolve around FP&A and reporting. If there are transactions, then I'd get to work on them as well, but the main focus is the Budgeting. I got this through networking and connections. Can I spin this in a better way to traditional PE firms after b-school?
OR
BB PWM Senior Analyst position. Pay would be great. Team would be great. Hours would be great. But, this isn't what I want to do with my career. Would taking this position and then b-school put me in a tougher position to switch into traditional PE?
Maybe the choice is obvious to some of you, but its a little confusing for me so I thought I'd get you monkeys' opinions.
Thanks.
If the first job is more closely aligned with what you want to do long term, take the offer--given it won't put you on the streets. This seems like a no-brainer.
Pre-MBA Undergrad Experience (Originally Posted: 06/19/2013)
Hello all! I will try to be concise as this is a very specific question for my own situation. I recently graduated with a B.A. in journalism and decided late that I want to work in business. Easy right? Nope! I have decided to pursue my MBA in Finance and would like to work in VC or IB. I want to get some work experience before my MBA for many reasons but primarily to build a solid foundation and to better my chances at a top b-school. My question is what types of jobs should I be gunning for and have a real shot at achieving now? Some details; I have a GPA I am not proud of, 2.8 overall 3.9 for my final two years (Something clicked and I decided to stop messing around), I am very comfortable with my writing ability, I can learn very fast and don't believe anything to be unachievable, I am quite confident in my work ethic (I have been working for a defense contractor in a completely unrelated field for less than four months and have been offered a highly coveted government position over colleagues who have been there 15 years). I am very green and open to any and all advice. I will answer any questions that would help. Thanks primates.
Question: Why "VC or IB"?
Agreed with the comment above. The paths to IB and VC are vastly different. Given your major, GPA, and general lack of experience regarding the financial sector I actually think your best path to IB is to work at your current position for 2-3 years (to gain experience and show continuity), engage in some meaningful leadership roles in at least 1 extracurricular activity, possibly take 1 or 2 business related classes at a local college and get A's to help further prove that you have the ability to perform academically and then either A) try to land a finance related job through networking or B) apply to a business school that will allow you to career change and transition into banking.
Your first goal should be to learn as much about the various finance paths to ensure that you actually are interested in these fields. You will definitely have to network as you have a few things working against you. Good luck.
Thanks junkbondswap. I appreciate the advice and am heeding it on learning more about the different fields of finance. I have been doing a lot of research and picked up a couple of books on finance careers over the weekend. ER struck me as interesting. I think with my background in journalism the research side appeals to me. I fully intend to get my MBA so I think a good path would be to work in ER for 2-3 years then get my MBA and maybe continue in ER or move into HF as those two seem to have some overlap that makes me believe it would be the most natural transition. The difficulty would seem to be breaking into ER.
Pre MBA experience splitted by Masters (Originally Posted: 08/25/2014)
Hi, my experience after undergrad goes like this:
1 year: full time work 1 year: Masters program 2 years: full time work
Do I qualify as "3 years work exp"? Thanks.
1+2=3... so yes.
I even had full time work experience during undergrad that the adcoms considered full time experience because I only had 1 year post undergrad full time experience.
yes
Career path for H/S/W? (Originally Posted: 01/24/2017)
Hi, I am currently a senior at UCB/UCLA working FT in a coverage group at a BB (BAML/Barc/Citi/CS) in NYC. I took the GMAT in the fall and scored a 750. I am planning on going to business school, and want to make sure I give myself the best chance for admissions at H/S/W, even if I change my mind about applying down the road. Looking for some input on career paths to maximize my chances. Not sure what my post-MBA career goals are, but I realize if I want PE I need to do PE before business school.
Recruit for PE from my current bank and get placed at a MF/MM with good track record of placement Lateral to an EB/GS/MS/JPM to attempt better PE placement Move to McKinsey/Bain. I understand these two place very well at business schools, directly out of the associate management consultant role. I'm worried about how my profile would stack up against my Harvard undergrad + GS + Blackstone peers Anything else?
First of all, congrats on the GMAT! Nice score to have before applying. Two quick remarks/questions:
Any reason you didn't include the last B in point 4? Is it because they offer "lesser" exit ops towards PE?
If you're serious about GSB I would consider getting involved with startups or with something a bit further out. From what I've heard they tend to be into the more tech-oriented/eclectic type.
Best of luck. Finance guys with 750 plus are a dime a dozen. Hopefully you aren't a while, indian or asian male.
Yup, which is why I am trying to figure out how to be more than a run-of-the-mill "finance guy"
PE MF is the best path to H/S
Is it recommended to lateral to a "better" bank such as Evercore to better my PE recruitment prospects? I don't think it's worth the extra year I'd stay in banking
"Unique" or non-business work experience for top MBAs? (Originally Posted: 05/09/2017)
Hey folks,
How would non business/finance work experience be looked at in MBA admissions? I did a couple finance interns and a tier 2 consulting (OW/LEK level firm) SA in undergrad and was going to go down that path, but a really interesting opportunity came up in journalism and I pursued that instead of my consulting offer. It's been a few years now since undergrad and I've had a couple interesting jobs in journalism (not Buzzfeed or some random small regional newspaper type stuff, but rather national newspapers and media outlets), but due to some personal reasons I want to transition back into a more stable and lucrative role in finance or consulting again.
Obviously I figured an MBA would be the best path for this. I haven't taken or really looked into taking the GMAT yet (wanted to wait to see if it even would be worth it), but I have an Ivy undergrad with an okay GPA (3.5), work experience obviously being a few years in national coverage journalism.
Could this background with a decent GMAT get me into a top MBA program? MBA business schools">M7 or Tuck?
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