Comments (56)

Jul 31, 2018 - 2:55pm

I'd agree. 3.3 is around the cutoff where I'd still list it. It's not going to do you any favors, but if you leave it off then what's assumed is likely worse than fact.

Obviously if major GPA or GPA after frosh/soph year are higher, include that as well.

Jul 31, 2018 - 5:45pm

If you don't put your GPA, most people (I imagine) will think it's terrible and reject you.

If you do put it, even though it is not ideal, it is not awful and so you probably won't be rejected automatically.

Sep 8, 2018 - 3:11am

Whatever the reason for your time away from work, career coach and author of The Essential HR Handbook Sharon Armstrong says honesty is always the best policy.
"Don't hide it; explain it," Armstrong advises. "During the entire process of conducting a job search, maintain your integrity and demonstrate it. Jobs come and go, but being known for being truthful-and conversely, deceitful-can last a lifetime."
Here's an example: When I went for an interview in February, I was certain the gap would come up, and it did. When I told the potential employers the truth-that I'd wanted to be home with my children and felt fortunate that I was able to do so-an excruciating silence followed. In an attempt to lighten the mood, I joked that during that time I'd done some freelance work, but I also spent a fair amount of my day tackling mountains of laundry. What happened next surprised me: They laughed and thanked me for my honesty.
"You have no idea how many people come in here and fumble through telling us about some extended project they were working on," one of the interviewers scoffed.
Though I was relieved they found my response refreshing, I wished my answer had been a bit more polished, which leads me to my next point:

Be Prepared
Stuttering and stammering your way through your first sit-down is as unimpressive as showing up late or calling your female interviewer "sir." Just as you'd prep to discuss your previous positions, employers are going to ask about your time off, so be ready to address that as well, says human resources director Victoria Di Santo. (In fact, one application I recently completed stated, "If there is a gap of more than three months on your resume, be prepared to discuss.")
"I've heard a lot of people say they've taken time off to raise their children or care for a sick parent," Di Santo notes. "Others have taken a sabbatical and traveled the world, really successful people, too, who just needed to recharge. Corporate America can burn you out if you let it, and sometimes you just need to take a break so you can return refreshed. Employers understand that. Life happens."
Whether you managed a household, co-chaired an event that raised much-needed funds for charity, or trekked across the globe, chances are you picked up some important skills along the way-think communicating persuasively, becoming a master organizer, or adapting to unknown situations. Identify them, think through how they apply to the job at hand, and craft a short, compelling statement you can use in interviews.
"Again, be honest-it's very possible to get solid experience in non-traditional settings: volunteer, community work, or running a home," Armstrong says. "Hopefully you have done some volunteer work, stayed up-to-date with your industry, or done some professional development. Mention those activities that reinforce the job you are going for."

Be Confident
While the thought of discussing how you came to be unemployed, especially if you were let go or fired, might make you uneasy, don't panic. Resume gaps are not as uncommon as job seekers might think, Di Santo says.
Armstrong agrees. "If a company doesn't understand what has happened to our economy since 2008 and the impact on individuals, well, you likely don't want to work there anyway."
While answering questions about any period of unemployment can be uncomfortable, know that you're not alone. Being prepared for whatever comes your way and having confidence in the skills you've attained during that break can go a [long way to bridging the gap ]( Whatever the reason for your time away from work, career coach and author of The Essential HR Handbook Sharon Armstrong says honesty is always the best policy. "Don't hide it; explain it," Armstrong advises. "During the entire process of conducting a job search, maintain your integrity and demonstrate it. Jobs come and go, but being known for being truthful-and conversely, deceitful-can last a lifetime." Here's an example: When I went for an interview in February, I was certain the gap would come up, and it did. When I told the potential employers the truth-that I'd wanted to be home with my children and felt fortunate that I was able to do so-an excruciating silence followed. In an attempt to lighten the mood, I joked that during that time I'd done some freelance work, but I also spent a fair amount of my day tackling mountains of laundry. What happened next surprised me: They laughed and thanked me for my honesty. "You have no idea how many people come in here and fumble through telling us about some extended project they were working on," one of the interviewers scoffed. Though I was relieved they found my response refreshing, I wished my answer had been a bit more polished, which leads me to my next point: Be Prepared Stuttering and stammering your way through your first sit-down is as unimpressive as showing up late or calling your female interviewer "sir." Just as you'd prep to discuss your previous positions, employers are going to ask about your time off, so be ready to address that as well, says human resources director Victoria Di Santo. (In fact, one application I recently completed stated, "If there is a gap of more than three months on your resume, be prepared to discuss.") "I've heard a lot of people say they've taken time off to raise their children or care for a sick parent," Di Santo notes. "Others have taken a sabbatical and traveled the world, really successful people, too, who just needed to recharge. Corporate America can burn you out if you let it, and sometimes you just need to take a break so you can return refreshed. Employers understand that. Life happens." Whether you managed a household, co-chaired an event that raised much-needed funds for charity, or trekked across the globe, chances are you picked up some important skills along the way-think communicating persuasively, becoming a master organizer, or adapting to unknown situations. Identify them, think through how they apply to the job at hand, and craft a short, compelling statement you can use in interviews. "Again, be honest-it's very possible to get solid experience in non-traditional settings: volunteer, community work, or running a home," Armstrong says. "Hopefully you have done some volunteer work, stayed up-to-date with your industry, or done some professional development. Mention those activities that reinforce the job you are going for." Be Confident While the thought of discussing how you came to be unemployed, especially if you were let go or fired, might make you uneasy, don't panic. Resume gaps are not as uncommon as job seekers might think, Di Santo says. Armstrong agrees. "If a company doesn't understand what has happened to our economy since 2008 and the impact on individuals, well, you likely don't want to work there anyway." While answering questions about any period of unemployment can be uncomfortable, know that you're not alone. Being prepared for whatever comes your way and having confidence in the skills you've attained during that break can go a long way to bridging the gap with poise and professionalism.)with poise and professionalism.

Sep 8, 2018 - 3:12am

GPA on or off the resume and IBD internships (Originally Posted: 12/27/2012)

Hey guys,

I am a Junior attending a non-target that is popular in the Northeast, primarily and entrepreneurship school, however it is very respected in IB, VC, PE as we have a lot of professors who have excelled from this area.

Anyways, what I really wanted to ask is if I should leave my GPA on my resume, currently it is around 2.93 and I'm rounding it to a 3.0.

I'm debating whether keeping this on my resume, I'm going to explain a something subtle on my CV like being involved with X, Y, Z consumed my resources for.... (something like that).

My internships are not the strongest so I've been looking for ways to leverage them to make them sound more relevant to finance.

Yes I know my GPA is horrible, and I can't tell you how disappointed and angry I am with myself for letting my grades slip. I've been involved with trading and entrepreneurial practices, which while haven't gotten me so much tangible rewards (money), they have really helped me build a character.

As to why I want IBD; corporate experience, handwork and discipline (100+ hour week), creating some sort of contact with other people on the street (although I assume this is difficult as an analyst).

Also, it was only last spring that I realized IBD would be the place for me to develop as an individual and do financial modeling and valuations similar to my stock analyses which were of course not as sophisticated but interesting to me. No one in my family, teacher, school had told me about IB and I wish I knew about it before but tough :) (and no I didn't learn about IB after watching American Psycho or Wall street lol).

Finally, I know my chances for a BB IBD are slim and will mostly be directing my attention towards MMs and Boutiques (particularly Harris and Williams) and do not expect my process to be easy, nor will I simply give up (never). Also I have been focusing more on networking as I am good at that and from what I have read about breaking into the industry (like any other job) it is very important.

Thanks again

Sep 8, 2018 - 3:13am

I would list it, if for no other reason than it's pretty much a requirement for college students to list when they apply. Also, I am not looking to start a big GPA rounding debate, but in my view, rounding from a 2.93 to 3.0 seems a little steep. I know it's for the "appearance" of your GPA, but be prepared to defend yourself if it comes up in an interview. But hopefully it won't.

Remember, once you're inside you're on your own. Oh, you mean I can't count on you? No. Good!
  • 1
Sep 8, 2018 - 3:15am

Previous low GPA resume advice. (Originally Posted: 08/22/2017)

Hi all,

I'd love to get some insight on what I should do about my GPA. I'm graduating next year from a Canadian school. My cumulative is sort of low - 3.3/4.3 but the scale over to US 4.0 drops it a lot.

My first year was god awful (failed a class etc.), however since then i've managed to get on the deans list, in an honors program and a scholarship for being in the top 5% of students in my faculty (done annually). I was wondering whether I can get away with leaving it off my resume without arousing the usual suspicions?

Sep 8, 2018 - 3:19am

UBC, (probably considered tier 2 as far as IB recruiting in Canada is concerned). I don't think there is too much recruiting here but i have friends that have landed BB gigs. Doing a double major with Econ, but not in the business school. From what i understand the GPA conversion to us schools is also somewhat convoluted.

Sep 8, 2018 - 3:20am

When is it acceptable to put your GPA on your resume? (Originally Posted: 07/05/2018)

If your GPA is below a certain number, is it not worth putting it there? Or should you avoid putting GPA at all?

Sep 8, 2018 - 3:23am

Kind of a double-edged sword here. If you don't list it, people will probably think it's terrible and won't give you an interview. If you do list it, and it's terrible, people probably won't give you an interview. I've heard that if you have above a 3.0, put it on there, but if not, then you need to have a good excuse as to why it's so low.

Sep 8, 2018 - 3:25am

Think it depends on the industry. From reading this forum it seems like mandatory for IB. In Real Estate, it's not usually necessary except for select firms (Starwood, Oaktree, Bridgewater, megafund type firms).

“The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates, and a monthly salary.” - Nassim Taleb
Sep 8, 2018 - 3:27am

GPA ON THE RESUME (Originally Posted: 01/13/2012)

To anyone considering a summer analyst position in banking:

YOU MUST PUT YOUR OVERALL GPA ON YOUR RESUME (major GPA is optional)

You will not get a first round interview under any circumstances by hiding your GPA.

A low GPA can be overcome if you had a rough freshman year or other situations.

However, hiding it wastes the time of current analysts and HR that are screening the resumes.

Good luck to all applicants this season.

Sep 8, 2018 - 3:29am
Michael Scarn:
This is not necessarily true. I have two first round interviews through OCR and only have my major GPA posted. It might be different if you're talking about online apps through the company's website though.

You got 1st round interviews? I find this shocking because you didn't read and understand the OPs post.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

Sep 8, 2018 - 3:32am

Could you explain whats meant by "A low GPA can be overcome if you had a rough freshman year or other situations."?

Should students explain this on their cover letter or something?

Sep 8, 2018 - 3:33am

Hardly anyone reads the cover letter.

You just need a kick-ass resume in other areas, such as:

a) Sophomore Internships
b) Leadership Positions
c) Owning/starting your own business (MD's love this). Doesn't matter if it failed

Below a 3.5 overall from a target or non-target is very difficult to overcome. It's not impossible though. There is some leniency with those with engineering degrees.

Sep 8, 2018 - 3:34am
write_your_gpa:
Hardly anyone reads the cover letter.

You just need a kick-ass resume in other areas, such as:

a) Sophomore Internships
b) Leadership Positions
c) Owning/starting your own business (MD's love this). Doesn't matter if it failed

Below a 3.5 overall from a target or non-target is very difficult to overcome. It's not impossible though. There is some leniency with those with engineering degrees.

Do you think a sophomore summer boutique IB M&A internship and a 3.5+ major GPA fits the profile for this for people in the 3.0-3.3 range?

Sep 8, 2018 - 3:35am

major gpa helps a lot. 3.2 overall 3.8 major and quite a bit of internship experience just tells me they like finance a lot, to the exclusion of other stuff

i had a friend who was in a similar situation, answered a greatest mistake question by talking about how he didn't study for an exam in a class he was taking to fulfill a requirement because he was working on a stock pitch for the investment club
the guy interviewing him then asks him whether he knew at the time he wanted to work at his firm (he had previously said that firm was his #1 choice)
he says yes. the interviews goes: that wasn't a mistake, give me another example

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Sep 8, 2018 - 3:37am

Please critique my resume - Thoughts on listing gpa (Originally Posted: 03/06/2014)

Any suggestions to improve my resume are welcome. Also, what are your thoughts on listing/not listing my 3.1/3.3 gpa on my resume (I know it's not good) given the experience I've accumulated. I currently don't have it listed because I'd like to have a shot at having reviewers look at my experience before condemning my resume to the waste bin, but I am open to alternatives on the issue. Thanks in advance for all of your help.

Sep 8, 2018 - 3:38am

Your interests are redundant, font looks like it might be a bit small, probably one too many bullet points for the currency trader role (I would try and keep it to three bullet points for each role, imo looks bad if your most recent position has the lowest amount of bullets, not a huge deal), change the date format for your university (i.e. say when you started). "Learned to value attention to detail and abstain from complacency" is really douchy. Take out the "was" before allocated capital.

Can't comment on the gpa thing, borderline probably. Good experience though.

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Sep 8, 2018 - 3:39am

Thank's for the feeback. The font thing probably isn't as drastic as it seems (used a pasted screen shot and microsoft paint to block out personal details). The uploaded document is just a word document with the edited picture pasted in. Would upload a regular sized copy otherwise. As far as the first listed experience is concerned, I'm currently still experiencing it and will add items as they come up. Do you have any further things to add that could help make it look more banking focused? Once again, thanks for the help.

Sep 8, 2018 - 3:40am

I was told that by not including your GPA, the person screening your resume would simply assume the worst (and your GPA is definitely not the worst). I don't know how accurate it is, but that's the advice being passed around my school.

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Sep 8, 2018 - 3:41am

Thanks for the input, cy1231. Yeah, I've heard that too which is why I asked. (Though it's no one's fault other than my own) I want to try to avoid being just a number on paper. I'm currently interning on the ER side of a bank who just went through the recruiting process for summer internships, and all of the candidates were first culled by GPA (and needless to say they were well above mine). Does not having it force them to consider the other attributes? I don't think having my GPA helps me which is why I've left it off, because either way, if I'm culled because they assume I have a low GPA or because I actually have a low GPA, I'm still culled in the end.

Sep 8, 2018 - 3:42am

I toss resumes without a GPA but some colleagues don't do the same so maybe it will work for you. Also, your bullets under activities are pretty weak. It's like you're trying to make them sound finance-y when they are pretty cool on a standalone basis. I would talk more about what you actually do and your results as opposed to trying to use finance buzzwords.

Sep 8, 2018 - 3:43am

Buegie, Would you include a number(3.9) as well as or instead of Magna Cum Laude honors,

example:

Education
B.A. Business Administration (Magna Cum Laude)
Double Major – Finance and Marketing
Seattle University – Seattle, WA
CFA Level II Candidate

sorry to jack thread

Sep 8, 2018 - 3:47am

Weird GPA/Test Score Situation - Do I Include my GPA on my resume? (Originally Posted: 07/06/2016)

I'm a rising sophomore at a target school with a pretty shitty GPA - just a 2.8 after freshman year. Right now I'm applying to intern positions for the summer of 2017.

Here's are the caveats - why I think my poor GPA may be overlooked.

  1. I'm currently on a very quantitative Math/Physics/CS track at a school that's fairly prestigious, but also known for having difficult STEM programs and massive grade deflation (MIT, Cornell, UChicago, Caltech, Duke). I'm planning on double majoring in Math and Physics with a minor or a concentration in CS. I'm hoping the heavy emphasis on hard science will mitigate the effects of a shitty GPA. (Stupidly, I took very few easy classes my first two semesters, fulfilling none of my breadth requirements. Instead I've been taking advanced classes related to my 3 possible major tracks.)

  2. My test scores in high school, however irrelevant they might be at this stage of college, were all stellar. I scored a perfect 2400 on the SAT, perfect 800's on the Math II and Physics sections, and got perfect scores (5's) on all the AP tests I took - roughly 11-12 of them, mostly quantitative - Calc AB, BC, Physics B and C (E&M + Mechanics), English Literature and Language, etc. I'm sort of reluctant to put these scores on because I'm no longer a freshman, but I feel like my poor GPA necessitates this.

  3. I somehow landed a fairly prestigious internship this summer in Chicago at a reasonably reputable Asset Management firm ($15+ billion AUM, but reasonably small employees-wise). I'm currently working there.

  4. I was diagnosed with ADHD early this summer by a neurologist. Ever since I've been on medication, my productivity has skyrocketed. I feel vastly smarter all the time, which I hope translates to a very real possibility of greatly improving on the GPA next year.

  5. All my extracurriculars are finance based. I'm in fairly high positions in 2-3 reputable finance/hedge fund/business clubs at school. Reputable meaning they have low acceptance rates and have sent many alumni to prestigious firms (Goldman, McKinsey, JPM, etc.).

On the downsides, I'm Korean, so I'm getting used to being fucked by affirmative action. Also, my major GPA isn't any better than my cumulative, so I'm kinda out of options there.

So should I include my GPA/Test Scores while applying for summer 2017 internships? Obviously I'm gonna raise my GPA next semester, but I want to know what to do in the meantime so I can apply for internships right now. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Sep 8, 2018 - 3:48am
  1. Develop relationships with recruiters. Explain to them why your low GPA. There are always exception to the rule, but in order to be the exception you have to sell an extremely compelling story as to "why my low GPA is not a good indicator of my ability".

GPA is a proxy that helps signal a number of positive traits to perspective employers (Intelligence, organizational skills, persistence, dedication, etc). As always proxy's are not perfect, and if you understand the concept of a proxy and signaling theory you can position yourself to show that your GPA is not a good indicator of your ability (though I would say that your life is going to be much easier if you improve your GPA to a somewhat competitive level, somewhere around 3.6. The rule of thumb is that if you meet the minimum threshold, a higher GPA can help offset a lower SAT score and vice versa in terms of being competitive)

  1. Consider concentrating in fewer areas but receive all A+ in your classes. From my experience it is better to have an exceptional GPA in 1-2 areas than a mediocre GPA in 3-4 areas. Remember the Pareto Principle (80/20 rule). Though GPA may only be a number, it is still a number that a recruiter uses to compare you to other candidates.

  2. Include your SAT score. This will provide a talking point to a recruiter, and will also help put your resume into the "Take a look at this in more detail later pile" Also, I would NOT include AP scores. I do believe that many other students at your school also scored well on the AP exams.

  3. Make the most out of your internship this summer. Learn useful skills and tools that you can then put on your resume for next year's recruiting session. Use it as a time to network around, and make a good impression on your employer.

  4. Figure out when the cut off dates are for recruiting. You might be able to raise your GPA high enough during your first term of your sophomore year to improve your competitiveness. Also, spend time researching the firms you want to intern at and WHY. Then craft a story to present to the recruiter. Practice your delivery, and remember that you may be a genius, but if you cannot articulate that to someone then no one will ever know that you are actually a genius.

  5. Develop relationships with people. Do not network. I know that I mentioned this earlier, but I want to mention it again because of how powerful it is. At the end of the day you will get hired not because you are smart or talented, but because your employer trusts you to deliver results and to be an asset to the business. And that is what relationships are all about: Building trust with people.

To help illiterate my point I received an introduction to a partner at MBB and am prepping for an interview this coming Fall. I attend a non-target, and received the introduction because I had developed a really strong relationship with a professor at my university who just so happens to have a really close friend who is a partner at MBB. This door was not opened because of networking. It was opened because I had developed a sincere, authentic relationship with an individual (and I had no idea that her friend was a partner at MBB, my professor sent me an email out of the blue after I asked her for some career advice).

Hope this helps.

Sep 8, 2018 - 3:49am

GPA for Resume (Originally Posted: 07/21/2016)

Hi All,

Looking to get some real, genuine feedback on this.

I am currently a rising sophomore transferring to another university. On my resume, what should I do for listing a GPA? (Given that I haven't even taken a class at the new university).

I am obviously putting my GPA from my previous institution, but what should I do regarding GPA for the new university on my resume?

Thanks in advance

Sep 8, 2018 - 3:50am

Isn't the answer found in your question? How can you list your GPA if you haven't taken any classes.. You could write Starting Fall 2016 under your new school

Swinging Through
Sep 8, 2018 - 3:51am

So I left GPA off of my resume (Originally Posted: 12/24/2012)

I've been reading through the forums tonight and have come across the common sentiment that you should always include your GPA on your resume presuming it's 3.0 or higher. Mine's approximately 3.3, but I received advice from multiple people at BB's (an associate, a VP, and an MD) telling me to leave it off, so that is what I did. I'm now kind of concerned since my application is in just about everywhere.

I have a strong resume otherwise (7 years of analytical experience with some pretty compelling bullets: i.e. producing analytical work for the VP Biden, developing a proprietary analytical model for a branch of government, etc), and am a veteran (which banks tend to love).

Should I try to go back and correct this error where possible or just let the cards fall as they may? With my resume being compelling otherwise, am I likely to get trashed in a lot of cases (at least at the firms where I haven't networked substantively)?

Sep 8, 2018 - 3:54am

asiamoney:
You're already 7+ year's out from school? Should be fine then, the guidance to always include GPA just refers to current students seeking an internship or fresh graduates, AFAIK. So no worries...

I'm not actually 7 years out of school; sorry, I can see how that was worded confusingly. I returned to school in the fall, and am a junior at a target school. I became an intelligence analyst for the military immediately out of high school, and then moved from there into other intelligence functions within the government.

rogersterling59:
If you're a veteran with that much experience I feel like any bank should at least bring you in for an interview. And once you get an interview, GPA is irrelevant, because it is mainly just a screening tool.

I hope so, but I think irrationally stressing about every aspect of the recruiting process is pretty much just par for the course, right? Haha.

Sep 8, 2018 - 3:53am

If you're a veteran with that much experience I feel like any bank should at least bring you in for an interview. And once you get an interview, GPA is irrelevant, because it is mainly just a screening tool.

I would agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.
Sep 8, 2018 - 3:56am

Gotcha. I talked to a guy at Jefferies the other night who said "I noticed you didn't have a GPA on your resume. That's a red-flag." He wasn't calling me out; we're both veterans and he was telling me exactly what I needed to be doing to be successful. Obviously that comment made me concerned!

Sep 8, 2018 - 3:57am

GPA on Resume PROBLEM (Originally Posted: 10/06/2016)

Monkeys,

I transferred from a CC to a semi-target and talked to alumni MD with the result of getting my resume passed along and asked to apply online at their BB then I'm hoping interviews. However, I have a GPA situation. I just transferred to my new school and don't have a GPA yet.. during orientation they stated it's like having a 4.0 "can only go down from here" so when I sent my resume to the alum I used the 4.0. I'm now applying online and am thinking it's not the right move to put the 4.0. My GPA at the CC was 3.75 but don't want to list CC unless I absolutely have to.

So monkeys should I stick with the 4.0 or say don't have grade and bring up CC and try to explain away? My resume and modeling skills are good but afraid this will ding me.

Thank you!

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