Salary negotiations - first year: bad idea?
So I've recently received an offer for a full time position at a big 4 and have noticed that my salary is the same as what I am making as an intern. I was wondering if one can try to negotiate with HR but not to get off on the wrong foot with anyone - is this a good idea or is it just industry standard? (I am just curious going forward on procedures - not planning on doing so myself)
lmao at the gall of this kid thinking he has leverage to negotiate his salary with a Big 4 consulting firm
at least he's got balls. Better than the swedes and the american libs.
First job after UG?....No. You do not have any skills or value. There are a lot of candidates behind you that will say yes. After a few years is another story.
Salaries for interns are usually the same as first years on an annualized basis....
Just curious if negotiating would look bad in ANY firm for any reason (as an intern) such as one mentioned above. I assume that some people can potentially be leveraging offers from other firms or banks to have somewhat of a bump, but I'm wondering if this is a good idea to begin with/can it generally hurt you in the long run
Yes. Do not do it.
You assume wrong kiddo
I know a guy who had his offer rescinded because he negotiated. You have no experience or track record and you want more money. Not gonna happen.
Risk isn't work the potential reward. You need to have something to offer to negotiate. Give it a couple years.
Negotiating is normal, but only if you have a reason to negotiate. For example, what is your leverage? If you have a competing offer that has a higher salary, you could negotiate for a bump since there is something else that proves your value.
If the only leverage you have is that you interned there last summer and you're a freshly minted graduate. You will probably come off as unappreciative and entitled.
Definitely would not want to come off that way.
I have heard that some other interns have competitive offers or are working towards having more than one license as an incoming associate so that's why I'm questioning if it warrants the option to do so and not come off privileged or entitled off the bat. I wouldn't have the nerve to do so if I was in that position in fear of it being rescinded, but at least i now see that it's almost never a good idea.
What do you have to offer? That is the basis of negotiation.
Negotiating a job offer out of school is usually only something that happens for MBA hires.
Nope. I negotiated my tech sales gig almost out of college, and my first role at a trading firm.
Negotiating is part of the game. If you can't negotiate your pay, you're going to have a hard time when F500 Procurement starts playing hard ball with you.
Maybe a yuppie banker would get mad, but for a lot of jobs it is quite common.
Read: "tech sales gig"
BB banks and Big 4 have standard entry level packages for those out of undergrad. You're not going to be able to negotiate, they have more than enough candidates that would kill for a spot. Anywhere else, packages are likely not as standardized and you can get away with squeezing more out of the signing bonus or certain perks.
Please share their response when you try to negotiate
should be grateful you got an offer.
If you no have leverage or any experience, there is no negotiation.
From personal experience I know that the salary increases 50 % from trainee to first year analyst at the big 4 I'm interning at at the moment. This in in the nordics though, and the trainee salary is pretty low.
I think for most big firms in the US the intern salary tends to be the same as, or at least very close to full time (prorated, without bonus). In certain places in Europe and Asia the intern/trainee salary tend to be much lower, even for places like MBB / BB / Big4
It's standard practice for intern rates to be the same as first year out of school in consulting, for both undergrad and MBA. Just be thankful you had such a well paid internship.
Having been there myself, there is no room to negotiate B4 offers. They're standardized by practice by city. Interns are indeed paid the same as new hires--just be grateful for the high intern pay.
I had few offers during my senior year of undergrad, and I negotiated them against each other, even though to no avail, but none of the MDs/hiring managers at those firms got offended. For each offer, I had to meet a lot of folks in the firm and go through many rounds of interviews and drinks. Essentially, I had some rapport.
Unless you are at a BB, go for it. It's really about how you approach it. Be upfront, explain your leverage, ask for where you can negotiate on.
Please, none of that "here is what I want" BS (which is what I did for my competing associate offers, aka 4-years later and much senior and completely different recruiting worlds)
Also know that you will get no where, but it's not a bad practice. Also make sure you have a reasonable leverage ... aka competing offer that has a higher salary and name brand.
I know someone who did that, they were successful but they were very exceptional.
intern pay is based on first year comp so this is not a surprise. if you try to negotiate you might lose the offer as there probably are 10 kids ready to step into any one opening. take the offer and then after a year or two you can revisit the issue.
I never worked at a bulge bracket or other large financial firm, but my understanding was that intern salaries were based off of prorated analyst salaries, so this would make sense. Am I right on that front?
I negotiated the salary before my current internship (all-year internship). I was practically 20% underpaid compared to the average of undergrads straight out of school. My boss simply told me that they pay the same salary for all interns, and they couldn't give me a higher salary. 7 months later, and I meet other interns in other departments, and they make 33% more than me. I was furious, but for some reason, the week after I get a pay raise, and now making the same as them. My boss kinda screwed me over by underpaying me for 7 months...
Yeah, I would definitely not do this OP.
I made waaay more as an intern than I do as a first year. One word : Overtime.
Negotiating Starting Salary as Entry-Level Analyst (Originally Posted: 06/20/2016)
What do you guys think about negotiating a starting salary right out of undergrad? Starting a relationship on the wrong foot or just business as usual? Would love to hear the WSO consensus...
Is this a major bank that has a fixed starting package for their analysts'? If so, you're better off just accepting it and starting the position. Also, if you know you'll be planning to move companies in a year or so, just suck it up and go forward with their salary. To put it into perspective, at a 25% tax rate and bi monthly payments, you're missing out on $156.25/paycheck. IMO it's not worth that whole process especially if you have no leverage considering it's an "entry level" position. Your tier-2 offer means nothing. It's exactly that, tier-2. You're replaceable and they can pay someone less than they're going to pay you to do your exact job. There's a lot of uncertainty in the cycle right now so any position is a good position.
It's a unique group within the bank and there is not a fixed starting package, as they asked what my range was and offered at the minimum.
Take the job, prove your value, ask for more money.
I think it's always smart to negotiate an offer, and sometimes expected, but at networkyournetworth said, it's not like a slight increase would be a life changing increase.
I would counter with the knowledge that if they say "no" you'll still accept. Not exactly a strong negotiating position, but I think it says something about a person if they don't negotiate at all.
Thanks for all the replies!
For some more color - when I interviewed with the group head I was asked what salary range I was looking for. They offered me the minimum of the range I supplied.
I was thinking of asking for 15% bump and negotiate down to something like 10% increase, which would bring the salary up to industry & location average. The numbers I have are from two firms which were noted as the groups main competitors. We're talking ~$6k, as there was no signing bonus, but they did offer to pay for my first months rent? Thoughts?
Curious.. what is the salary they offered you? I will most likely be accepting a full time offer as a credit analyst at my BB that I am interning it at now
I would negotiate. This is typical of firms - ask for a range and offer a minimum.
Did You Negotiate Your First-Year Full-Time Salary? (Originally Posted: 09/19/2016)
I have been talking to a few of my friends, who are already in industry, and majority of them talk about negotiating their salaries and how they wish they would have started negotiating earlier. Did you guys have any experience negotiating? What were the outcomes? Is it generally a good sign to negotiate?
Always try to negotiate. As long as you are respectful and reasonable in the ask, the worst they can do is say no. I tried to negotiate on my first job offer - I had 4 specific asks and they politely said no to all of them. Second job I negotiated for 20% higher bonus.
I negotiated my first salary out of University. It wasn't a huge bump, and I didn't get exactly what I had in mind, but it ultimately put more money in my pocket. (~6% if I remember correctly).
"Hello, I would like a higher starting sal...
...Hello?"
If this is at a reputable IB paying base (currently 85) not worth it to even try coming out of undergrad.
+1
Is it possible to negotiate signing bonus, if there isn't one originally given?
Lots of companies have relocation bonuses. If you are moving a long distance you could try framing it as that, rather than just as a "signing bonus"
Yes, got a 5k bump. It will usually always be marginal as you are starting out in your career.
It's really going to depend what kind of firm your offer is from. Structured analyst programs no real wriggle room when it comes to comp (aside from maybe higher relocation bonus if you are moving across the country). Once you move into the boutiques (not Elites) you may have a little more power, especially if the comp is well below street-averages.
My offer was strictly non-negotiable. Although pretty darn good considering my cost of living in current city.
I attempted to negotiate my first IB analyst job right out of college. I was very polite and stated that I had another offer that was slightly higher (albeit in consulting but I didn't say that). My MD said they couldn't move on my salary but he doubled my signing bonus. In the end, you will never receive something you don't ask for. However, like NuclearPenguins said, if you are getting paid street there is no reason you should be negotiating. The bank in my situation is very small and pays well below street, and I had leverage by having another offer. Even if you are in a situation like mine where your bank does not pay street, I am not sure what pressure you could exert on the employer without having another offer.
First Job Salary Negotiation (Originally Posted: 06/02/2013)
So I've looked around online and found mixed reviews for negotiating your salary for your first job. I'm taking a position at a BO trading desk (all I care about is the work life balance these days) and don't really know an industry average to compare to. Also the only prior finance experience aside from my finance degree was a couple internships that don't relate to trading. Should I even try to negotiate my salary? And if so, is there a good way to go about it?
How much are they offering you?
If it's in the 50-60k, don't negotiate.
A little over 40k, but I'm in Florida so I'm not sure what to expect. I know that's not too much below F500 entry level analyst salaries around here.
Where in FL? For Jax/Tampa/St. Pete/North or West FL, ask for 50 and settle for 45; so flo go for 55 and settle for 45-50. The worst they can say is no.
Central Florida. I just didn't want to ask for too much and they withdraw the offer, I heard that has happened to a few people. But alright I'll try. With my lack of experience how would would you go about asking/defending that?
entry level compensation negotiation (Originally Posted: 09/06/2011)
hi guys,
i was just wondering if anyone's had any experience negotiating for compensation when it comes to an entry level position.
i just received my offer from a large AM firm following the end of my summer internship and i know many would kill for an offer like this but i was just hoping to get some input from the rest of you. this is especially so since this is unlike a BB offer where everything is would kinda be more structured.
would it be too risky? would it come across wrong to some people?
If this is your first job, I wouldn't bother negotiating. You bring almost nothing unique to the table and there are 10 people waiting in line behind you for the same position.
^^^^ Exactly.
^YES
Best case scenario - you get a few thousand bucks, which is nothing in the long run
Worst case - you're working at McDonalds instead
Unless your offer was like 35k or something ridiculous then keep your mouth shut
Depends on how strong you are. I have lowballed offers and am inclined to pull them if there's no negotiation. I think "not enough confidence, will look for other work soon, I've missed something if they are will to take this offer, etc ..."
Am I the only person who quit banking a long time ago because they though they didn't get paid enough? Someone has to be as arrogant as me.
My impression is that if you settle early on you will settle later on in life. If you envision yourself as a bad-ass banker, do it and reject the offer. If you want to be an entrepreneur, do it. Things will only get harder for you the longer you wait.
Thanks for the advice but you definitely have to chill. I know you've been great for the community and this was just surprising. I figured it was a legit question to ask.
Will def consider what the rest of you guys have been saying. anyone else have other opinions?
In this economy there is no negotiation for entry level. If you decide to try to negotiate, please send me their email info so when they rescind your offer I might have a chance. (only kidding of course, but I'm sure others may be interested)
negotiating entry-level comp (Originally Posted: 01/30/2010)
Hi, I'm new to the forums - stumbled upon them today via Google and am pretty impressed by the number of interesting threads and smart commenters. Anyway, I am an undergrad senior whose investing philosophy is influenced by Klarman, Graham, Greenblatt, Buffett, Taleb.
I have interned for ~25 hrs/week at a local small-midsize L/S value fund for the last 2.5 years (with breaks while I did study abroad). When I say "small-midsize" I mean AUM of $200-400m. I am relatively comfortable with the philosophy of the fund though sometimes I wish it cared a little more about downside protection and "nightmare" scenarios - using Mr. Pink Monkey's terminology :P - and a little less about pure "upside." Basically I think my fund (among many others) is suffering from a bit of availability bias stemming from the past year's high returns and general macro recovery (relative to late-2008 expectations). Still, I think that overall the fund is a good ideological fit for me.
Anyway, next Tuesday I have a meeting planned with the PM to discuss details of my offer for a FT position upon graduation in May, including comp. Unique to my situation is that my main "alternative" isn't an IBD or PE job but rather taking 1-1.5 years to learn Japanese (I speak three languages but want to be an East Asian value PM someday, and I think knowing Japanese will be pretty important.)
Any random advice?
Any numbers I should have in my head for base/variable? I know that HF comp is largely variable, based on both overall fund and individual analyst performance, but what is reasonable for an entry-level person like me? Note that the fund isn't in NYC/LA/Chicago but a mid-size city. Also, hours are pretty reasonable (8:30am-6:30pm).
Similar experiences.
Thanks! I'll be sure to let you guys know how the meeting goes and what ends up happening...
Hate to break it to you, but you're not really in much of a position to negotiate. The job market is full of people chomping at the bit for a position like that.
Ya, entry level = no negotiation power. Be glad your getting a job offer in this market. As said above, plenty of other well qualified people willing to take whatever that firm will offer.
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