Got a summer analyst position at a large asset manager. Starting to think of a lateral switch?
I had a superday where I interviewed with Fixed Income, Equities, and (last minute) Securities Lending. I was mainly interested in FI but only got an offer at securities lending. My main interest is in Asset Management and I'm preparing to take the CFA this June.
My main question is how can I show that I want to make a lateral switch to another department after I finish the summer program and hopefully get a full time offer? Getting a full time offer is my first priority so I don't want to risk talking to my boss during the summer and pissing him off.
Anyone else have experience with this?
Advice needed! Currently interning in sales but want to switch to trading ft (Originally Posted: 07/18/2011)
Hi WSO,
Long time lurker here and it would be great to get everyone's feedback.
I'm currently interning in sales and would like to do trading for ft. When I went through summer recruiting I indicated a preference for trading but got put in sales anyway.
I like my bank and would prefer to stay at the same firm. How can I best position myself for a ft offer in trading? When should I speak up, and to who?
I don't want to tread over any toes, and at the end of the day would prefer a return offer in sales than no offer at all. But still......any advice?
Thanks!
bump
Pulling a Switch Post Internship? (Originally Posted: 11/18/2012)
Got a quick question. I was fortunate enough to get a big 4 internship for the summer and although I am very happy with the people and the office, the position is for audit and I think I may be a better fit for tax. Of course I am not going to try to switch now but I am curious about what my chances are to switch to tax if I were to get an offer for full time. Has anyone ever had this experience or know anyone who has?
I was in a similar situation. If you have a FT audit offer you can PROBABLY choose to retake all your interviews with the department of your choice, but bear in mind you won't have the audit offer as a backstop. It's quite a risky manoeuvre.
With regards to transferring once you are full-time, this is not really possible within the first 3 years until you are qualified. You MAY be able to take a secondment late in your 2nd / early 3rd year and then do a full transition once you are qualified, but it won't be simple.
One thing to consider is that working in tax will really pigeonhole you. Audit is far from amazing, but at least it gives a slightly broader skill set and more applicable qualification.
That sounds strange because most people doing internships over the summer have never had a tax or audit class before signing the offer. What firm were you with?
Anyone else have any input?
Switch internally for FT? (Originally Posted: 02/21/2013)
Just got an offer for PWM internship for a NY bank as a junior. I was wondering if it is possible at all to network internally to be considered for their IBD/public equity group for FT over the summer. Can this be done? Or is it a big no-no?
Unlikely. Are you at a target/semi-target? Is it paid PWM? For FT I'd say recruit and target lower tier MMs
Well, you won't be able to just 'switch groups.' Best case scenario you network, they toss you in for FT recruiting for the IB remaining spots, and you get a first round interview.
Echoing triplectz, network during the summer and you can get into the process for FT IB which to be honest is minimal due to banks filling most spots out of intern class.
If you are at a BB, your best bet is to network your ass off with anyone and everyone. You're not gonna snag an IBD offer at the end of the summer, but you will put yourself in position for down the road. Build your network now. Even if you get stuck in PWM/PB as a FT analyst, they allow mobility at most firms after your first year. If this is a BB, your best bet might be:
Bust your ass/network this summer --> snag a FT offer for PWM to have in your back pocket --> try and leverage this offer to speed up the process with IB recruiting if possible.
If this doesn't work out, you could still do:
Bust your ass/network this summer --> snag a FT offer for PWM --> try and move into a first year analyst role in IBD after being a first year analyst in PWM/PB for a year (or two)
If you really want to do IBD and are willing to work and network hard, at your worst case scenario you can still pick up a good paycheck for a year or two (at all BB's the PWM/PB FT analyst role has $70K base) while working favorable hours and then try and restart as a 1st year in IBD when you are 23 or 24. In the grand scheme of your life, starting IBD a year or two later than you want won't matter.
But make sure you keep up with all contacts, and do your best to learn modeling and all that good stuff in the mean time. Read up on IBD/PE (Wiley Finance publishes two great books on these topics) this summer to keep yourself prepared. But DON'T lose sight of the present. If you take this offer and focus so much on switching to IBD that you don't work hard in PWM then you kill your chances of moving over because no one in PWM will vouch for you if they think you are lazy.
Btw, take this with a grain of salt because this is strictly advice for a BB, and it only applies to HNW/UHNW wealth management, not retail wealth management. If this is all at a smaller bank then I don't really have much advice for you.
FT IB recruiting outside of the summer class next year will be difficult given the shrunken class size. Best thing to do is to network your ass off.
Cross Divisional move??? (Originally Posted: 06/24/2008)
I understand that many banks claim to give out 100% of their full time offers to internal summers. I was wondering how that works if you are interested in switching across divisions ie-Banking to Research, Research to S&T, etc.
Also - is it unlikely that another firm will consider you for a role outside of what your summer internship was?
I understand the first priority is to receive an offer from your group/desk/division as this makes your life a lot simpler, but assuming you are a strong candidate, is a cross-divisional move a realistic possibility?
anyone have any insight here?
changing groups from summer to ft (Originally Posted: 03/07/2007)
how hard is it to change groups within the same bank if you interned in one group but wanted to move to another full time?
I'm interested in this also, from back office to front, or from wealth management to IB, S+T, etc
I don't think the OP means division, I think the OP is referring to going from M&A to a natural resources group or something of that nature.
In reference to that, I really think it depends on the firm. Some groups will actually interview you after completing your summer so that it really depends on where you fit in. Overally, I don't think it is a very difficult process. Part of the reason they like to give you exposure during the summer is for this specific reason.
Changing division...is it wise? (Originally Posted: 04/08/2013)
Having interned with a BB transaction division last year I received a full time offer for September which I accepted.
I'd like to work abroad during the summer in something relevant and the same bank has a SA opportunity in the country I'd like in capital markets. This is the only internship they have left and I'd really like it!
I'd like to apply but I'm weary that this might piss HR off considering I'll be working FT in a different division come Sept.
How would you go about this?
I think it might not matter because why would the other division hire you as SA if they know you have 0% chance of coming back full-time? From their perspective, the benefit of intern is (1) extra set of hands but more importantly (2) seeing if someones worthy of FT offer. You might be more helpful than the average SA-applicant because of your experience but you aren't coming back (no ROI for them).
Thanks for that. Yeah I hadn't taken into account the fact that there was no ROI so ill just be rejected anyway.
I might throw an application in just as an 'out of interest' thing....or just enjoy the summer.
Well try seek some other's opinions also. I just know its typically hard to get internships after your senior year if you have a full-time offer in hand unless you have some connection.
switching groups before full time start (Originally Posted: 01/23/2012)
.
That's a big jump, a lot more than you might realize.
It's most likely a non-starter, and will definitely make your ECM team unhappy.
Very high risk proposition
.
Your window for making the change would have been last fall during FT interviews.
Did you accept the ECM offer right away or interview with IB groups at other banks?
Either way, you can't switch, at least not at the same bank since you've already accepted the offer.
This is the truth
This is a horrible idea. Do not even attempt to switch groups. You'll end up shooting yourself in the foot and worst case, give your offer to someone else.
If you really want to switch, you should either 1: do a damn good job, and lateral to a different bank or internally when there is an opening.
OK, thanks everyone for their input!
Switching groups for FT (Originally Posted: 07/25/2011)
Hey guys,
Would wondering if anyone could share some advice. I'm interning at a BB this summer, love the bank culture and would definitely stay if I get a return offer. However, I would like to be in a different group though...when should I bring this up? before the end of the internship or after I (hopefully) get an offer?
BTW - I am in sales right now, would like to be in trading. I figured this question is also applicable if you wanted to switch groups within IBD (eg coverage to product or vice versa)
Thanks!
bump
For now just focus on getting the offer. If they liked you during the internship companies are usually pretty helpful in moving you around to a similar role for full-time (although I can't really speak to the sales --> trading switch, as to be honest I don't even know what the junior sales staff does).
Whether you stay with the same company or not though, full-time recruiting is so much easier with a return offer in hand, so I'd keep that front and center as your primary goal.
Good luck!
you can bring this up once you have a full time offer. once you get the offer, you are in and you have a year to figure everything out and coordinate with HR to get what you want. they should be accomodating and it won't be huge deal, but i agree that getting the offer is all you should be focusing on right now.
Advice on switching divisions (Originally Posted: 04/03/2010)
I am going to be interning this summer at an investment bank in new york, but its not in the division i want to end up in. Specifically, I'll be working in a position that is back/mid office, but I want to end up in the IBD. Any advice/insight on the best way to do this? How about if I want to switch divisions, and also get a full time offer in another city, how would that work?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Probably not the answer you want to hear, but I think it'd be tough. With thousands of people working at each bank, just because you work there doesn't mean you are really connected to the bankers/traders, etc.
However, if your one and only goal is to end up in IBD and not the division you intern, then you do have the advantage of being around a lot of people that are in positions you want to be in. As awkward as it can be, try to build relationships. BS with people in the cafeteria, in the elevator, at the gym. Maybe they'll help you land an interview.
I think its similar to reaching out to alumni. You have a commonality, but beyond that not a whole lot. It might help the initial conversation get started, but from there you need to constantly be on your toes. A good thing - if mid/back office is not at all what you want, then you have little to lose by trying to switch things up. From an HR perspective though, I doubt that they will give you a better shot at IBD than any other candidate simply because you worked for them in a different division of the firm.
how about within the same division (IBD) but different group? (for eg. industry group for the summer, aiming for product group for FT). will HR then give you the chance?
Switching within divisions will depend on firm policy.
Some firms will only extend you an offer in your summer group, so even switching within the division will be tough.
Some firms will extend you a general IBD offer after the summer, meaning that you will have another round of group placement for your full time. However, most of the time, SA in one particular group obviously have the priority to go back to that group. With this said, if you are looking to switch into the most popular groups (M&A, LevFin, top coverage team etc.), it would still be challenging. However, if you are looking to switching out from cap mkts team (assuming if falls under IBD, not true for all banks) to a random coverage team, it is quite doable.
Just my 2cents.
Switching divisions (Originally Posted: 07/03/2011)
I'm currently a summer analyst at a top BB in an internal (back office?) role (think business development, strategy, ..).
Recently, I've been getting a lot of questions from the analysts and associates about what I want ultimately want to do and whether I am interested in switching to either IBD or S + T for full time. In addition,they've been bringing me to meet people both on the trading floor and in banking during lunch time and whenever the vps/mds are not around.
Ideally, I would like to do trading and would probably also choose capital markets over my current group. I'm very hesitant, however, to mention this to my group for fear of not getting a return offer.
Should I let people in my group know what I want to do? If so, how should I go about doing this? So far, I've been dodging the questions and given them very general answers.
Some additional details:
The analysts who have been asking me the bulk of these questions do not seem thrilled with the group and have made it quite obvious that they are also trying to leave.
I'm the only summer analyst in the group and it is a very small group.
I personally feel that I haven't been doing that great of a job this summer, but have been getting basically nothing but complements/pats on the backs. Whenever I screw up, they've always made it seem like it wasn't my fault. They also seem impressed that I understand absolutely basic concepts. Basically, it seems like they have ridiculously low expectations of me.
Thanks for the reply. The thing is I actually enjoy the group and the work that they do. The reason why I'd switch if given the opportunity has more to do with the way the company as a whole treats the group (shutting off the air conditioning after 8:00, giving them shit about reimbursing taxi rides back from work and refunding travel expenses, constantly hassled by auditors, very low budgets for technology expenses...).
The big question for me is whether I should tell people in the group that I'm going for S+T. It seems like they can help me with it but I don't want to have that help come at the expense of a shot at a return offer.
In terms of your second point, in my mind, I really haven't done anything to give them any indication that I'm too smart or ambitious for their group. I've been putting in the effort, but I personally just don't feel like I've done that great of a job.
I think during the summer, most companies should have the expectation that you are learning about different roles within the organization, etc. I don't see a problem meeting up with people from both S&T, IB, etc. just to learn more and to gain connections.
I know what you mean by "the way the company as a whole treats the group". If you honestly don't feel happy about your role in the organization, it would be evident in your work as well, so might as well reach out to other groups now instead of 2, 3 years down the road.
Switching Groups - How easy would it be to switch to FT in NY (Originally Posted: 03/26/2009)
I have a S&T BB offer in a regional office this summer. My goal is to end up in New York FT. Assuming I receive a FT offer, how easy would it be to switch to FT in NY? Also, I would have to switch products.
depends on what you will be doing this summer
Ill be in commodities. Does that help or hurt my chances?
where?
BB in Houston
ok so you should know that your working in their phy group so your skills may not trasfer over to their ny office which more then likly is they fin side of energy.
I would say it would be very hard to switch to ny as they will have interns as well and looking to bring those guys on ft and your office will be looking to bring you back ft in Houston.
which bb?
I want to keep that private for now. Does it matter which one?
yes it does.
If JP then your more then likly staying in houston
If citi, they have their fin in houston so your there either way
if db, same thing
if gs, that group is not growing like their planned and most is still in ny
if barclays, they are also having a hard time growing
if ml, they have some in ny but most in houston
ms,gs and barclays are the major energy shops that are still based in NY..
Houston is phy for the most part
Its one listed that has both financial and physical in Houston. Thats why I asked about switching products. If during the internship I spent time in structuring or any other aspect of trading, would it help?
to move to ny... no
if DB your going to love the summer. Drew runs a great shop
Ill keep that in mind. Thanks for the help monty
good luck man.
the job you want in NY is being staffed with their own interns just like the people in NY that want your job really dont have the leg up you do and vice versa. Sucks but true.
hit me up this summer and drinks on me.
[email protected]
anyone interning in houston this summer..drinks on me..
Actually, I have one more question. I am curious as to why ML has most in Houston but only a little in NY. Everyone else is either half (physical) in houston, all in houston, or all in NY. Does ML just have a few traders up in NY and thats it?
I should not have put a little but they have a good amount in NY, Chicago and Houston.
Keep in mind that many of the people in Houston are not your typical BB people. Most are ex Enron, El Paso, Coastel, Dynegy, Calpine and Duke
Its not as big a deal as it is in NY. Everyone in town works for a hf, bb, utl, marketer etc etc
I am coaching a little league with 4 random people I never met. All 4 are in energy including myself.
Would they be the best then for transferring from Houston to NY? I know a couple analysts and associates there.
just apply for jobs in NY during the fall and hope your summer exp will help you get interviews.
i have a question
why did you take a job in houston if you did not want it? sure a lot of other students would of killed for the job you got that dont want
I definitely want it. I actually received an offer in NY but I chose this one because I am more interested in S&T and energy. If I could work it out, being in NY would be a bonus though
just ask your boss mid way during the summer. If anything maybe they can put you in touch with right people in NY. however keep in mind that space is very limited this summer.
I will tell anyone this thinking about moving to houston. It is the shit..... no state tax and same pay as NY for bb's
Cool deal, thanks again for your help
np
but the summer sucks....hot as shit
Do I get free drinks, Monty?
wx.... your drinks are always free....
some knowledge being passed down and free drinks...that sounds like the summer experience I'm looking for
After doing commodities in London and New York, I just wish I could get to Houston. Seems like better quality of life, better climate, lower cost of living, less noise and less filth. IMO New York isn't all it's cracked up to be. Even if you are full time in Houston, you will likely be spending plenty of time on business trips to New York. You can't get away from it.
we are talking about s&t not banking.
Yup. I speak from experience in commodities S&T. Or was that not directed at me...
I have lived in Houston my whole life... a little change would be nice
I don't understand the obsession with New York. I grew up right outside the city and it seems like all the people who want to be in New York so bad grew up >500 miles away.
That said, does anyone know about MS Commodities? Is it in NYC or the Westchester office? I don't know why it would be in Westchester but someone told me that
i'm pretty sure it's in westchester.
It is in Westchester
I don't get the deal with NYC. I think its all the movies that romanticize the city. If I could get a job in Houston or Chicago I'd love it.
As for MS in Westchester... I hate Westchester
Can't beat the cost of living and quality of life down here. I love NY, best city on the plante IMO and my ambitions were originally to get back at some point, but finding Houston to be a pretty nice place to live.
cost of living is sick and quality of life is pretty great. Also the whole city works in energy it seems like. You meet a lot of people just doing regular shit... its pretty sweet.
Signed offer letter to return, but want to switch groups. Best course of action? (Originally Posted: 10/18/2014)
I interned at a regional advisory shop specializing in M&A, but want to make move to CM at a BB. Now, not sure what to do. Do I still reach out and see what to do? Or am I now supposed to just drop this and wait a year before reaching out again? Thanks
Keep in touch with your contacts so you're the first person they think of whenever there's a vacancy in coverage. Other than that just focus on your DCM/ECM role and get solid analyst reviews.
Upon recieving a return offer, how would I go about changing Investment Banking groups at BB (Originally Posted: 06/18/2014)
I accepted a summer anaylst (internship) offer at a BB Investment Bank. I was accepted into my second group choice. Upon recieving the offer, how would I ask to transitioin into LevFin, as opposed to the current indsutry group I am in? How do I go about approaching this pre-offer? And what do I do post offer? (assuming I recieve an offer)
Has anyone done this? Any advice?
Interested as well
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