Incoming analyst class size
Anyone who started working this year at a BB that can tell me approx. how big their incoming analyst class size was? Curious to see opportunities available at BBs now.
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How big is the total first-year IBD analyst class each year on Wall Street? (Originally Posted: 11/23/2012)
Has anyone seen recent data as to how many first year full-time investment banking analysts start each year on Wall Street? By "Wall Street" I would include all finance cities in the U.S. (NYC/SF/etc.) that are home to large financial services firms, and banks I would include in the sample are BB/regional/boutique firms. I'd be really interested in a time series of how this number as changed over time, especially pre-vs.-post financial crisis. Is there any hard data on this?
just a guess, but I always thought it would be around 2000~3000
hot that is way to much. I would shoot for around 1500. BB would have 40ish per class nowadays given the shitty economy and MM/Boutique should be no more than 10 per class.
40 per class? Are you kidding me? Someone has never stepped foot in a BB before.
Not sure why monkey shit was thrown at the OP. This seems like a pretty interesting question.
Yeah I don't know why either, but I just brought it back to neutral because it's a question that I've wondered as well.
Here's my shot at it focused on US only (AKA making up numbers and adding them up... hmm doesn't that sound familiar?):
Bulge bracket banks: Let's say there are ~100 incoming analysts at each BB, which gives us 800. I don't know if I'm counting ECM/DCM or not. Since I'm using ball park (read: made up) numbers anyway, I'm going to just round this out to 1000.
Elite boutiques: I can count 5 (Moelis, Lazard, Evercore, Centerview, Greenhill), and let's say that they take about 20 new analysts, each year, which comes out to 100.
Middle Market: I'd imagine that middle market banks take on about the same number as the elite boutiques - they may have more expansive operations (i.e. full service), but many are regionally based or industry specific, so let's say there are on average about 20 new analysts per bank here, and let's say there are 20 MM banks, which shakes out to 400.
Everyone else: true boutiques, specialty firms, etc. I have no idea, so let's just say 100.
That adds up to a total of ~1400-1600. Call it 1500. I'd be happy if that was within a couple hundred of whatever the real number might be. There are a lot of areas where I could be just completely wrong, including pretty much every single number I made up.
West Coast BBs have SA classes of 8-12, Elite Boutiques 4-8, and smaller boutiques even smaller classes.
Evercore's full time analyst class for New York is supposed to be about 20 analysts this year. I've seen NYC BB industry/product groups that take 11 first years and other NYC groups that take around 4 (not the entire firm but just one group in IBD for NYC). I do think that 11 is on the high end for new analysts in a BB NYC group but I could be wrong. Assuming maybe 10 product/industry groups, I'd say there are maybe 70-80 new FT analysts per BB bank in NYC?
Regional branches of BBs take a lot fewer people. I know one branch that is taking only one full time IB analyst this year. West Coast offices take more analysts than offices like Boston, from what I've seen but less than NYC. I think 100 per BB bank nationally is a decent estimate.
So this means that there are about ~1500 college seniors going into IBD nationwide this year approximately?
Wow. That is tiny holy crap.
The smaller MMs take only 1-2 maybe 3 a year total as a generalist. Opco takes around 10 - 12 across all groups?
How many of you from NYU Stern were in that superday at Financo where they interviewed 50+ of you for 1 spot. Dang.
IB Class size (Originally Posted: 04/05/2010)
Hey does anyone know what the current 2010 incomming analyst class size is ? how much lower are they to the 2007-2008 numbers.
THanks
also curious.
bump
I am one of about 10 incoming analysts for my IBD group. Don't know any numbers for the other groups though...
bump
i'd like to know for other banks
bump
112 for summer IBD at top 5 BB
how big is your IB analyst class? (Originally Posted: 07/30/2008)
We've got around 80 or so at my bank, which seems to be too many.
We have 110 in the America's, 80 in NYC, which is a cut of about 30 people from last year.
yes, last year's class was about 110-120, we're already speculating how many of us will be left in a year...
Back in the day, we had 70 or so, in a year, that was whitled down to 30
http://modernyuppie.blogspot.com/ The musings and antics of a Meathead college wrestler turned asset backed securities trader.
Back in the day being 2001 I'd assume?
My year had two cycles in a global training. 500 total, 300ish for the US with the bulk of them based in NY. This year, about 250 total globally.
Over a hundred at my bank
Was around a hundred last year (for Europe) and around 25% were gone before bonuses, I'm not sure what level it is now but I think people have been leaving once they got the cash in the bank.
How big are IBD class sizes this year? (Originally Posted: 12/12/2009)
I would think around 80 per BB. Does this sound accurate?
Yeah. Some hired 100, some hired 70.So the average is about right.
If you are looking at the total # people going to Biz shcool/PE funds, then you probably want to look at other boutiques like bx, rothchild, moelis etc. But I am sure you knew that already
=)
Yes, I did know.
How big are the IBD classes on the West Coast?
would appreciate if someone can shed light on GS SF, MS SF, CS SF, BoA-ML LA, UBS LA, CS LA
also interested in smaller firms like Jefferies LA, HLHZ LA (FRG and Corp Fin), Moelis LA, etc
These numbers are somewhat rough:
GS SF: 12-15 CS SF: 3-4 (but 4 2009 FT analysts deferred to 2010, so 7-8 total?) UBS LA: 7-8 Moelis LA: 4-5 Jefferies: 6 across SF and SV; not sure about LA
i know a couple of those
UBS LA - i think around 8-10 forgot BoA - 4-5 Jefferies - heard that took 3-4 total HLHZ LA - Corp - 2, Rest -5 Moelis LA - 5
Those arent exact numbers though. I just have friends working in them telling me about the rough /expected class.
What is the average BB IBD class size for NYC offices?
already answered:
nyc ibd usually 80-100, last year was smaller for obvious reasons
hk ibd classes average around mid-teens. last year one BB had 4, and another had 30+
What about the average size for S&T classes? I know that Citi's is usually around 40-50. Anyone else have any data points?
Numbers are for Citi London, class of 2010: Capital Markets Origination 20 IBD 44 S&T 40
Any idea how big class sizes were during 2006 and 2007? Might be interesting to see current levels relative to those years. This is for BB NY.
120 to 140 approx.
Capital Markets Origination N/A IBD N/A S&T 45
anyone know how many of the class size are female, from target/non target, etc for S&T in the NYC BBs?
nope
Does anyone know about HK numbers for MS/GS/JPM? Also how big are the classes for Barclays and Wells Fargo in particular?
How big were BB analyst classes this year? (Originally Posted: 08/28/2014)
I've seen older posts range from 60-100. Any info on this year's class size?
How does it matter? You just need one.
l
Please don't end up as one of my new first years....please don't end up as one my new first years...
If even 1/10 of the personality he's conveying on these forums comes through during his interviews, you probably have nothing to worry about. 1/100000 on the other hand...
Whats a d-d-d-denominator??
Size of Analyst Classes at BBs - growing in recent years? by how much? (Originally Posted: 11/14/2014)
Hey guys, a reporter friend was looking for this info so if any of you have #s or data on the size of analyst classes at BBs the past few years and/or if they are growing / shrinking, that would be great :-)
Thanks in advance! Patrick
Just a guess here, they're certainly growing at MM firms, not too sure about BB.
They definitely grew between the 2012 class and the 2013 class at BBs.
SA/Analyst class sizes (Originally Posted: 03/12/2011)
Approximately how big are the SA and analyst classes at a BB bank?
30
^ lol at the -7 bananas
So do you guys agree with about 30 for SA and analyst classes?
I think that is wrong considering some groups are going to be around 10-20 alone.
Oh that is more assuring :) Also, any idea how big specific top groups are such as GS TMT and MS M&A?
I know that there are ~13-15 FT analysts joining GS TMT (in NYC, not counting SF) this summer.
GS SF usually has 7-8 (all generalists, but most deal flow is TMT there)
I'd imagine just for IB analysts classes, boutiques can range from 1-20 and BBs with 50+
All BBs are 50+ at least...
My friend is going to be an SA at Barclays. He said that they have a class of ~95 in NYC.
Size of '09 Analyst class (Originally Posted: 12/12/2008)
As an upcoming '09 Analyst I am curious to know how much smaller the new analyst classes will be relative to what they were last year. Anyone have any idea?
I would imagine it depends a lot on the bank. I'm joining a boutique, and I know they said they are just reloading, not expanding or contracting.
Although the '09 class sizes are going to be slashed, I hear that the '10 class is going to be even smaller from a few industry sources. Apparently, some firms are either forgoing or vastly reducing the next round of summer analysts
forgoing a round of summer analysts....just another sign of the times...
"Although the '09 class sizes are going to be slashed, I hear that the '10 class is going to be even smaller from a few industry sources. Apparently, some firms are either forgoing or vastly reducing the next round of summer analysts"
Yeah I've experienced that so far. Already three banks have canceled SA interviews for our school.
@grandpabuzz:
Do you go to a target school? I would be interested to see which schools are cut from recruiting. I go to a non-target school; and, as of this morning, the usual handful of BB firms are still scheduled to be on campus in January for SA recruiting.
I go to UT. Sagent Advisors, HLHZ, and Merrill (doing a combined interview with BOA instead) all canceled in the past week.
So far I only have one interview set up.
man our resume drops don't even start until mid/end january
@grandpabuzz:
I am sorry to hear the news.
slashed by 40 percent
I wonder if this 40% decrease in analyst class size is about the same for the other BB firms.
"Citi 40% slashed
Hey quick questions. is that for S&T as well as IB or just IB?
Citi IBD NY?
yep
We're keeping our analyst size the same and opportunistically looking to expand -- perhaps based on early signs of improvements in the economy or the right individuals. Needless to say, the number and quality of applicants are way up! SA recruiting hasn't started -- but this is an important pipeline and therefore I expect levels to remain the same.
~~~~~~~~~~~ CompBanker
I'd say most banks are down by at least 1/3 of the 2008 classes. Some more (Citi), some less (JPM), but on the whole that's about the average. I also agree that 2010 will be the toughest yet, probably 1/2 the size of the 2008 class or smaller. A lot of the FT hires at my bank were extended to summers before sh!t really hit the fan, and they don't want to rescind. Will not be easy getting a summer analyst gig this summer or FT for 2010 grads.
I agree that summer classes will feel the brunt of the recruiting cut back because the banks really really try to avoid rescinding offers. I don't know anyone who was a summer this past summer who has lost their offer yet and I think that will stand. Has anyone heard any differently?
Question is, for us summers who got offers, how long after we start will they feel that same need to keep us around. Firing us once say, during the first year, is a whole different ball game than rescinding.
I've accepted an offer from the bank I was an SA at over the summer and personally, I hope they hire me initially and then decide to let me go. I'm sure the money I would see if this were to happen will be more than if they rescinded my offer in the next few months..... In my mind I am not in any worse of a position if this were to occur, recruiting for this year's graduates is pretty much complete already; even in industry.
i dont know a lot of first years who have been laid off (since starting this past august). so thats a good sign for incoming folks
300 in mine..guess which bank
We're about to enter a Great Depression. Don't you want a president who's already dressed for it?
JPM was way over hired the past summer.....Citi ibd only had 76 interns in nyc and jpm had over 150+
150? christ...
But do you know what the offer rate was for JPM?
which one? 300?? I haven't heard of that big a number for fresh analysts...
JPM said they were looking to hire as many of the summers as possible. Hope they didn't go overboard. The summer IBD & S&T class (including the Bear summers) was over 200. Can't really say I know what the conversion rate was but I'm guessing it was high...too high.
How many analysts do banks hire each year? (Originally Posted: 01/25/2013)
I know BBs have annual recruiting at targets, but on average how many analysts does a typical bank tend to hire each year (recruits + everyone else)?
For an IB analyst program at a BB, usually ~90-100 for U.S. employees.
Depends on what banks...some hire more then 50 to 200 depending on the economic.
How many analysts? (Originally Posted: 05/24/2010)
I know typically for PE recruiting, GS TMT and ms m&a are at the top of te headhunters' lists followed by the elite boutiques and the top analysts at other BB's. I was wondering if anyone knew approximately how big an analyst class is at gs tmt and ms m&a as well as the elite boutiques. Also wondering how big of an associate class the megafunds usually take.
Depends on the location and when you are trying to recruit. Also the needs of the TMT group really varies. I would guess it would be in the 5-8 range during a good economy.
So probably 45 total between gs tmt, ms m&a, lazard, greenhill, evercore. Assuming some go to hf's, b school, stay in banking, or burn out, it seems like there would be spots at megafunds for almost all who want them, no?
Absolutely, that's why it's so easy to get into PE.
Factor in a few thousand coming from top B schools who were GS TMT/MBB/etc beforehand in addition to BB analysts trying to lateral and the competition gets a little more intense.
Ha I didn't mean to imply it was easy, just trying to ballpark the numbers.
Aren't the people coming from b-school applying for a different position? Or are analysts competing with them for the same positions - I thought there were pre- and post- MBA associate roles.
any comments on chances for analysts from lesser groups at the firms mentioned? obviously those groups get all the hype and have more dealflow, etc but these banks have other groups that are tops in their respective industries
search function?
this should be an interview question.
How many analysts are hired? (Originally Posted: 08/14/2006)
How many analysts does the typical BB hire in an average year (or if they all differ, just give me an idea of some specific banks)? How many analysts are in each industry coverage group? What about summer analysts?
bump
In 2005, from the Wharton School of Business (number of accepted offers):
B of A Securities: 2 Barclays and Bear Stearns: 1 each Blackstone: 0 Citigroup: 33 Credit Suisse: 11 Deutsche Bank and DB Securities: 6 (4/2) Goldman Sachs: 25 Houlihan Lokey: 2 JP Morgan: 6 Lazard: 2 Lehman Brothers: 6 Merrill Lynch: 3 Morgan Stanley: 5 Prudential Capital: 1 RBC Capital Markets: 2 Rothschild: 1 UBS: 12
http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/wharton/FullTimeCompanies.html
Note that this is from Wharton ALONE. And it reports the number of accepted offers which isn't important: the number of offers will be more than those.
How Many First Year IBD Analyst Spots Are There? (Originally Posted: 10/28/2009)
A friend asked me this and I thought it was an interesting thought experiment, I guess just include BBs, top boutiques, perhaps some middle markets. Break it down like a consulting question.
ball park ~1000 in the US.
1500-2000 globally?
Haha a friend?
Pretty sure you bombed this during an interview and are trying to find out a good answer now. Either that or you're looking to prepare for an interview and getting other people to do your work for you.
Your friend's retarded. Next.
I asked a kid from Cornell this question in an interview a couple weeks ago...hope it wasn't your "friend".
The thought that this could be asked in an interview didn't cross my mind. I have a couple offers; if anything I was wondering how large the club I'm in is. But how ridiculous people act on this forum makes doing banking seem like such a nightmare. But I digress, I also estimated around 1000, figure 8 bulges hiring an average of 75 kids, 100 or so going to top boutiques and a few hundred at middle market shops.
There are 69 spots.
The answer is 96
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