So do consultants, or even big lawyers, get the last laugh????

I agree wholeheartedly. I actually enjoy finance, and find investment banking to be more interesting, relevant and exciting than law. However, if wall street compensation levels no longer dwarf those found in law and consulting, I suspect that people more on the margins will be more likely to choose some other field than banking.

as an fyi, a 1st year law associate makes about 140k.

This is 100% wrong. 1st year law associates make 160k everywhere and bonuses this year are usually 17.5k for a first year, bringing total comp to around 180k. Then there are firms like Skadden (30k bonus), Kirkland (17.5-60k bonus) and Wachtell (160k bonus).

Keep in mind this is a down year. Last year it was 160k + 35k bonus everywhere with some Kirkland first year ssociates getting upwards of 90k bonuses.

Top firms don't suffer as much during economic downturns either because they have other practices (bankruptcy, litigation) that pick them up.

But you're right, at the "lower" levels bankers do much better than lawyers, however lawyers have better job security during the down times. Once you get to the partner level,at places like Wachtell, Cravath, Simpson, you have partners clearing 10 million.

yeah my bad, i was basing the numbers off the last time i looked into it (about 2-3 years ago, when i was last seriously considering becoming a lawyer), and then bases were 120k, which plus bonus came to 140-150.

as to partner level, there are a couple things to consider i think. 1. Profits per partner--in 2007, the best year EVER, ppp was 4.95 mm for Wachtell, 3.3 mm for Cravath (#2), and 2.88 mm for Simpson. There aren't that many partners who clear 10mm, because just by the law of averages every partner who does means a number of partners who have to make significantly less than the ppp number.

but really,the more relevant consideration is whether you'll ever make partner. this year, maybe one of the worst times for the firm ever, MS named 133 new managing directors. in 2007, goldman named 300 new MDs.

by contrast, wachtell has about 75 partners, cravath has about 85, sullivan and simpson each have about 160. TOTAL. not new partners this year. so those are some pretty long odds you're fighting...

but yeah, associates do have better job security at law firms. although, hey, white and case just laid off 70 of them, so...

True, most people at the firms I mentioned make 4-5 million, but at the same time if you've been partner for 15 years you're not going to be making the same as the guy who turned partner last year. And that guy isn't going to be making 4-5 million (probably along the lines of 1-2).

I think the odds of making partner at a law firm and making MD at a bank are roughly the same, with a big difference being that if you can't make partner at a top 5 firm, you can "drop down" and be a near shoe-in to make partner at a lesser firm. Additionally to become an MD you almost have to "weather a storm" as the economy has its ups/downs but it's completely different in law firms.

Yes law firms do have layoffs but they're not in the same league as banks and usually are comprised of people who aren't working their share. I know of a couple of laid off associates who worked their assess of and did quality work but got laid off because "someone" had to go in the current crisis. When you're cutting 40% you can be assured that some good guys are going to be let go. When a law firm of 800 people fires 30, well, those 30 probably saw it coming long before the pink slip.

I think in either situation, if you want to make "real" money (750k +) you have to be a top performer...and to be a top performer I think you have to love what you do. I know two attorneys who went from biglaw to BB and one of them loved it (and is now a MD) and the other hated it. Additionally I know a BB guy who moved into law and loves it. Either way I'd say you're best suited for doing what you think you'll enjoy the most, because when you enjoy things it reflects in your work, and that's the way to the top.

i still think it's hard for "most" partners to be making 4-5 million when a law firm has a profit per partner of 2.88 million in their best year ever. and the profit numbers drop off pretty quickly as you move down the chart into less prestigious firms.

but i agree with you, being a top performer is about loving what you do.

Securities lawyers will get the last laugh! There will be so much litigation over the next 5, 10 maybe even 20 years associated with CDSs, RMBs, CDOs, ARSs, etc.

If you are looking for job security (and high compensation) then go into securities law, because that's where all the money will be flowing; there will be so many lawsuits over this financial mess that we will run out judges to hear all the cases, and remember lawyers always get paid first.

One thing to note is that while lawyers charge on an hourly basis, this doesn't mean they always get paid. When working on an IPO or an M&A transaction, it is not uncommon for a lawyer to get stuffed by their client on fee if the transaction does not go through. This is particularly painful because lawyers don't share in the upside associated with a successful transaction. In today's environment, this actually hurts a lot.

~~~~~~~~~~~ CompBanker

Like you could just become a lawyer at Wachtell....

Stop dreaming.