Some Advice From Fellow Bankers

I come to you all with a minor dilemma, a choice rather.

I was called about two weeks ago by a headhunter who offered me an
interview. The reason I got the call was because an alum had called
a professor who he had and I have had for a recommendation. This is the
position:

A two-year commitment to help the financial analysis strategy team as
an analyst. I would also be helping on buyside M&A being that they
have completed an average of 2-3 annually since 1999.

The company is a F100 worldwide notoriety with over 100,000 employees.

The salary: $75,000 with a guarenteed 15% bonus ($11,250) plus an incentive
perfomance bonus ranging from 10-20% ($7,500-$15,000). Sign on of $10,000
and a relocation package of $5,000. This means if I do okay I get a total
package of $93,750 and if I perform very well I get $101,250.

Benefits:
*401(k)(match 100% of 5%, lets employee put in 20% per month)
*Stock options worth $4,000 a year, immediate vesting.
*4 weeks vacation (not including a week between X-Mas and New Years Eve)
*10 Personal/Sick days
*$12,000 allowance for tuition per year (I will be in Boston so there is a good amount of schools)
*Great relationships with top schools
*Will let you leave for an MBA if you give 2 years after program's completion
*40 HOURS PER WEEK

Just wondering what people think

Caveat:
I have not been at BoA for more than a year and I made what would be over $120,000 annual, I only worked 6 months due to a service trip I took after college. Weigh in please.

 

Dude you made a whole thread, on how banking is lame and stupid and useless.

While Corp Finance people are the warriors of financial world, and they truly help the company. You learn the best strategy etc...

How your goal is to be a CFO, and you can not wait to get out of banking and into the F100 side of things.

So you get exactly what you want, and your 2nd guessing, huh?

 

Yea I guess I just figured that when I was ready I would be looking and now it came in my lap. It is one of those fate or demise situations. I feel bad not giving at least a year too, but the offer seems pretty sweet.

Would this exit of only being here a half year burn an ultimate bridge to banking, in case I ever change my mind? I just want people to give me a neutral assessment.

 

If your heart's not in Banking and you're not eager to do PE (which is fading anyways), then I don't see any reason not to switch over.

You're getting what you want, 2-3 years of 9-5's and a lucrative salary followed by b-school sounds like a great deal to me. Only downside in my opinion is the job is in Boston.

Far as burning bridges in Banking..rest assured Boa is not gonna ask you to come back lol but I doubt it'll have a bearing if you decide to return as an Associate..

 

I think OP is just looking for confirmation for reversing course after getting that coveted IB job, so let's give it to him...

Go for it, tbroker you are making the right decision.

Seriously though, if you can give a decent answer as to why you want to go back to ibanking (post-MBA) after you quit pre-MBA I don't see why you wouldn't have a problem going back to IB. The problem is most of the stock answers will sound hollow ("excitement of deals" etc. etc.) because the inevitable "well why didn't you stick with boa then?" will follow.

Personally I would be concerned about the b-school admission rates from that program. You may want to talk to someone and get an idea for what kind of business schools people are going to after this program. Is it H/S/W or Darden/Johnson/Anderson (or worse)?

 

The one thing I do not see here and I guess bankers don't really think like this, is that when a company is giving all these perks for 2 years, sending you to a top10 Bschool. It will be very hard for them to let you go. In their mind they prolly will want you to be there for the next 20 years or so.

Sounds like this program, is to groom the future CFOs/Director of StratPlanning of the company. Especially if they are paying for your Bschool.

 

This is a grooming position.

I agree that if I do enter banking the recruiters have a right to be concerned. However, if it has been 5 years and I have a top MBA under my belt, I hope, I cannot see it causing too many problems. Unless I said I left because I hated banking and swore to never do it again.

Also, if I accept this position and ever go back to the investment world I will probably go into HF, Asset Management, PE, etc.

 
tbroker:
This is a grooming position.

I agree that if I do enter banking the recruiters have a right to be concerned. However, if it has been 5 years and I have a top MBA under my belt, I hope, I cannot see it causing too many problems. Unless I said I left because I hated banking and swore to never do it again.

Also, if I accept this position and ever go back to the investment world I will probably go into HF, Asset Management, PE, etc.

Not hacking it in a mediocre analyst program won't raise any red flags whatsoever. I'm sure every bank and PE firm would love to have someone like that.

 
Best Response
PoppingMyCollar:
tbroker:
This is a grooming position.

I agree that if I do enter banking the recruiters have a right to be concerned. However, if it has been 5 years and I have a top MBA under my belt, I hope, I cannot see it causing too many problems. Unless I said I left because I hated banking and swore to never do it again.

Also, if I accept this position and ever go back to the investment world I will probably go into HF, Asset Management, PE, etc.

Not hacking it in a mediocre analyst program won't raise any red flags whatsoever. I'm sure every bank and PE firm would love to have someone like that.

Not to butt in, or maybe to butt in, but this wreaks of jealousy and ignorance (Popping's Comment). I think that package is sick for someone only 1-2 years out of school.

When did BoA become mediocre? I would call it less than BB but mediocre? I call some low MM mediocre and some low boutique to be crappy.

Jealousy and stupidity is a bitch I guess.

For what it is worth I would take that job.

 
altfp:
Although I am going to PE when I am done, I do think corporate is a good option. However, my concern here is that if you find banking to be dull and easy, how in the world would you find this job stimulating? If anything, corporate is slower and less stimulating.

Well I think corporate will give me a lot of options to see new and changing facets of business when there is no deal. It also gives me time to do things away from work such as service activities, do a CFA, take some classes, etc, which will be challenging

PoppingMyCollar:

Not hacking it in a mediocre analyst program won't raise any red flags whatsoever. I'm sure every bank and PE firm would love to have someone like that.

Seriously, you're a fag. I will be making more money, due to this credit crunch, and working less hours. Also, I will still have equal exit opps. PoppingCock is also probably a college Freshman.

 
tbroker:
altfp:
Although I am going to PE when I am done, I do think corporate is a good option. However, my concern here is that if you find banking to be dull and easy, how in the world would you find this job stimulating? If anything, corporate is slower and less stimulating.

Well I think corporate will give me a lot of options to see new and changing facets of business when there is no deal. It also gives me time to do things away from work such as service activities, do a CFA, take some classes, etc, which will be challenging

PoppingMyCollar:

Not hacking it in a mediocre analyst program won't raise any red flags whatsoever. I'm sure every bank and PE firm would love to have someone like that.

Seriously, you're a fag. I will be making more money, due to this credit crunch, and working less hours. Also, I will still have equal exit opps. PoppingCock is also probably a college Freshman.

Now the time you will have to spend on things outside the office is a definite plus, and you seem like the type to take advantage of that. But I wouldn't count on the job, anyhow, to show you new and changing facets of business when there is no deal. You are exposed to more new things in banking--big corporates simply aren't that innovative. You can obviously be proactive about it on your own time, but I think there is something to a more structured environment where new things are brought to you to work on.

And you are too intelligent to be calling someone a fag, even if they are being a jerk.

 
nyc123:
BoA had the sixth most market share in terms of IBD fees paid to the street last year... how could it not be a bulge bracket at this point, even though it is only 10 years old?

was that muni fees in bulgaria?

i dont know what kind of doctored BofA league table you are looking at but from every real m&a tables i have used/seen bofa doesnt even crack the top 10.

stop internalizing the lie.

 

I should not have used the word fag, it is not right or nice so I do apologize.

However, I do not understand Poppings need to try and discredit BoA. Did you not get an offer for a summer internship or something? In the several months I have been here I have had a few cool deals in my group and I have seen a lot of good stuff overall. It may not be GS, ML, JPM, etc but it is what it is. I had an option to do a "true" BB put picked something more self rewarding for a few months and then had BoA.

I seriously think the deal value can be $10M or $10B there is something to be learned and hard work to be done everywhere. As long as you are trying hard, surrounded by good people, and getting a deal flow you are a banker. At the end of the day none of us will be remembered for anything we did as bankers. Most of us are here to move on as soon as we can. If a top HF tapped us after 2 weeks at a bank we would all probably leave because we all look out for number one while not putting anyone else down.

Though the road is easier for that guy who went to Harvard summered at GS and did the 2 year stint, but if you go to a small school work at a small firm you can do it too. Do not let anyone tell you you cannot accomplish your goals, just put your head down and do what you have to do and remain true to yourself and it all works.

 

tbroker, if being a banking analyst isn't worthwhile for you then take this gig immediately.

I see a lot of focus from others on "top 10 MBA", having banking on your resume' etc. The truth is, after the first half year to a year of IBD you really don't learn very much. If you want to live your life laid out on a hierarchical bullshit path like a sheep, fine. If you go down this path, you're just another paper pushing Real Bankers' bitch (yes, analysts and associates aren't real bankers, just paper pushers).

The goal at your age is to learn as much as possible while not being saddled down with repetitive bullshit for your career. By all means, go for it. 40 hours a week is fantastic. You can study for the CFA,markets, etc. while enjoying your life.

I'd rather think for a living rather than to "do" for a living, don't you?

 

I have been doing banking for a couple of months, and have learnt more than a year of college. and the learning continues. everyday people learn new things. people who have been working 5 yrs still see new structures/ new types of deals as they progress. its all in your attitude. if you think you are a formatting monkey, you are, but if you see beyond that and try to understand whats going on, you learn a ton. you learn how ceos think, whats important to them....by listening intently to calls/ client visits (ive gone to quite a few already). the hours suck, that is absolutely true. but hell its a paid education program.

 

Speaking as someone who spent his 20's at a Fortune 500, that's a pretty good deal for someone with your age & experience. I'd guess your actual hours will be about 50 - 60 per week, with the occaisional "hell week" when you're trying to close a deal or an integration is blowing up in your face (surprise! welcome to the dark side...it's not just enough to close a deal, you've got to make it turn a profit....).

Some thoughts:

  • If you're currently in Charlotte, watch out for a jump in the cost of living when you go to Boston. 100K is "baller" cash in the south for someone your age - it goes much faster up there.

  • Key point on salary growth...it varies a bit by industry, but corporate finance comp packages will max out way below banking, probably in the $200K - $300K range. You can make more but the list of potential positions gets very, very short after that.

  • That being said, you've got a good chance of a semi-normal relationship with your family & kids in that role, particularly if you're able to stop travelling by your early thirties.

There's something to be said for the last point - I've seen the 80+ hour & 100% travel lifestyle trash a lot of marriages and families... what's the point of making the cash if you're just going to split it in a divorce and spent the next 20 years trying to fix your relationship with your kids?

The real question on money is not "how do I get the most" but rather "how do I get enough"... the offer you have, assuming salary growth & promotions, is probably on track to get you to "enough" income/assets by your early 30's...

(and at that point, especially if you're a dual income family, you get to experience the charm of the #$%$# AMT tax.....)

 

"I have been doing banking for a couple of months, and have learnt more than a year of college. and the learning continues. everyday people learn new things. people who have been working 5 yrs still see new structures/ new types of deals as they progress. its all in your attitude. if you think you are a formatting monkey, you are, but if you see beyond that and try to understand whats going on, you learn a ton. you learn how ceos think, whats important to them....by listening intently to calls/ client visits (ive gone to quite a few already). the hours suck, that is absolutely true. but hell its a paid education program."

I guess it depends on your goals and past education. I had the full CPA knowledge, three work summers, and the equivalent of a master's in finance before I did the banking analyst stint.

IMHO, learning through osmosis while saddled with hundreds of hours of bullshit is a pretty damn slow ordeal.

If you want to work in buyside investment management, tbroker's choice is the right one. The deal/sourcing/M&A/modeling etc. skills you learn in IBD are well transferable, but there are better ways to get exposed.

 

The one bit of due diligence I think OP should do is find out what he can about the internal politics of the organization. I had a friend who really wanted to do I-Banking, but didn't get an offer, so he did consulting for a while, then got a job in corp devt at a big industrial company. Now, the one good thing is that he got pitched to (as the buyer) for a lot of M&A deals, so he met a lot of bankers, but I don't know that the relationships were such that they would help all that much with his network down the road.

But I do know that what finally drove him crazy and made him leave his corp dev job is that the place was staffed with lifers -- relatively cautious types in the finance bureaucracy who were just looking to hold on and gain seniority. So that made the place stifling for him. These people tended to never follow through with innovation, were half-hearted about really doing deals that would change the organization, and a lot of their salaries just flattened out over time (even though he was not that senior, he made more money than some of the people who had been around longer), and they didn't care. They had a lot of stock, were hanging on and entrenching themselves, and were feeding the increasing mediocrity, and that's how it was going to stay. My friend's real problem is that, because he was ambitious, he was -> never

 

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