South African Riots

Insane footage out of South Africa over the last couple of days, but very little coverage of this in the US media. There's literally nothing about it on the front page of CNN.com right now.

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Comments (159)

Jul 15, 2021 - 7:31am

There's this one twitter account that is posting a ton of on the ground footage, like the one you posted, along with WhatsApp voice memos from locals. its horrifying. Going to be a famine for them.

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Jul 15, 2021 - 4:18pm

I've said for a long time that there is a fundamental difference between culture and DNA. In Europe, North America, and the extended colonies, there is an inheritance of 800 years of Magna Carta, 2,000 years of Rome's foundations, and 2,500 years of Greece's foundations, all which provide the foundation of our societies. In the U.S., we inherited all of that. Our Bill of Rights is modeled after the Virginia Bill of Rights, which was modeled after the English Bill of Rights. In all of that time, the West has been cultured and civilized for about the last ~200 years, give or take (really, like 50-100 years if we're being conservative). The most recent estimates have the earliest modern humans dated to about 300,000 years ago, so our time of civilization has been a blink of the eye. Randomly select one of our "European" ancestors' time period, and you're likely to pluck him out of a time that is just as uncivilized as the Afghanis right now.

We take for granted the difficulty of attaining and inheriting civilization. I'm not surprised that Africa is having atrocious growing pains. If people weren't so sensitive to any criticism of people who happen to be non-white then an honest conversation could be had. The reality is, the white ruling minority's behavior toward the African natives in SA was evil, but they brought with them a 2,500 year inheritance of civlization and governance that these African native governments don't have, so the banana republic SA is devolving into isn't surprising. But it isn't DNA.    

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Controversial
Jul 15, 2021 - 4:38pm

I was with you almost 100% up until the last sentence.

How do we know it's not DNA? It would certainly be more comforting to think that this sort of societal dysfunction isn't inherent to Sub-Saharan Africa, but is that really true?

Intelligence is highly heritable and has a lot to do with how well a society functions. Take for example the top 10 countries in the world by intelligence: Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea, China, Japan, Taiwan, Italy, Switzerland, Mongolia (surprised at that one), and Iceland. All are high functioning societies. What is the average IQ of Sub-Saharan Africa? Is it 70? What is the difference between Haiti and the DR?

We freely acknowledge that genetics has an enormous amount to do with athletic talent, yet we are often unwilling to admit that it might have a lot to do with cognition, behavior, etc.

All of this is for good reason. Some of the worst regimes of the 20th century trafficked in these sorts of ideas. My point is that we need to be honest about the situation in Africa. It seems to me that if left to its own devices, SSA will never attain second world status let alone first world. I don't know what the solution looks like, but it certainly seems like self rule on the continent is not going to work.

Jul 16, 2021 - 10:08am

>The most recent estimates have the earliest modern humans dated to about 300,000 years ago, so our time of civilization has been a blink of the eye. Randomly select one of our "European" ancestors' time period, and you're likely to pluck him out of a time that is just as uncivilized as the Afghanis right now.

Go look at pictures of Afghanistan from the 1960s, they may shock you as they were not that different from the West. The only reason for their current predicament is because of non-stop war since the 1980s. The thing is, we aren't living 300,000 years ago, we are living in the now, and Africa isn't alone on an island, they have access to all the same information as you and me.

Singapore was a backwater British colony that managed to gain independence in the 1960s and managed to transform itself into one of the Asian Tigers! South Africa was the darling on the British Empire pre-WW1, and it has only gone backwards ever since. Today, South Africa is one of the most dangerous countries in the world. 

Jul 15, 2021 - 10:07am

Rob and plunder then live richly off of your plunder while discriminating against the people you've stolen from, who are living in poverty. All in the country where they are natives and you're an invader. I wonder how this could go wrong.

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Jul 15, 2021 - 3:51pm

It doesn't, you are just seeing how a violent / hard leftist views the world. Thankfully most people disagree with this sort of thing, and see that people rioting because their leader was arrested and sentenced for his crimes is wrong. 

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Jul 15, 2021 - 5:02pm

How does that justify targeting random businesses?

You want to focus on the symptoms, I'm focused on the disease. Because until the disease is cured, the symptoms are going to pop back up again and again. In fact, they're likely to get worse over time, in this instance.

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  • Intern in PE - Growth
Jul 15, 2021 - 5:26pm

Might wanna look into the history of South Africa, POC lover. Boers were called boers for a reason, it´s because they settled on land nobody cared for. Sure, their successors went overboard here and there, happens. But the blacks could have built anything they wanted, had they desired so. But no, they were too busy fighting their petty little clan wars. Fuck them.

Jul 15, 2021 - 6:16pm

Might wanna look into the history of South Africa, POC lover. Boers were called boers for a reason, it´s because they settled on land nobody cared for. Sure, their successors went overboard here and there, happens. But the blacks could have built anything they wanted, had they desired so. But no, they were too busy fighting their petty little clan wars. Fuck them.

What is a POC lover? Not familiar with the term.

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Jul 15, 2021 - 5:36pm

There were no farms in the sparsely populated South Africa when whites arrived, the land wasn't arable. The dutch settlers brought water boring techniques to transform agriculture in this part of the African continent.

Should White farmers of today give up their farms to Blacks in this case? Does the colour of their skin determine who 'owns the continent'? Should Whites be punished for their ancestors, long dead, perceived injustices?

Big news when you find out that Bantu tribes only migrated to South Africa in the 1600s, and the Khoisan and their ancestors were already there.

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Jul 15, 2021 - 10:56pm

You've clearly never spoken with an educated South African. Keep drinking the liberal cool aid though, next you can tell us how the protests in Cuba are just because of COVID. The government there is so great to its citizens it turned off the internet while it sent out social workers to calm the mostly peaceful protests!!!

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  • Developer in RE - Res
Jul 15, 2021 - 10:27am

Interesting side note is that YouTube seems to have substantially changed its search results algorithm in the past year or so. It used to be that searching for a topic like this would yield lots of on-the-ground footage uploaded by random people- the "you" in YouTube. Now the default results are heavily skewed to official media sources. It's much more sanitized and less interesting than it was.

Jul 15, 2021 - 4:10pm

been going on for a while with YouTube, google, Facebook et al.

I've been using duckduckgo to get to the real search results

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Jul 15, 2021 - 5:04pm

[email protected]

This country with its natural resources could have a built a strong economy and political system. Seeing this is very sad

Their resource wealth has been plundered and continues to be plundered and siphoned off elsewhere.

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  • Intern in PE - Growth
Jul 15, 2021 - 5:23pm

Plundered for how long exactly? 150 years? Those people had 4 FUCKING MILLION YEARS and they did SHIT with it. They had their chance.

Jul 15, 2021 - 5:26pm

You sound like a Nazi talking about Jews, it's actually hilarious to read. 
 

There's no conspiracy man. No one behind the curtain "keeping them down". 
 

The ANC runs the show and has for decades. It's a complete political and cultural failure on display. 

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Jul 17, 2021 - 11:46am

Apparently one of those resources is accountability.....

Hear me now, children, for my occupation is of much import. For 82 years I have been an oil man, a ‘baron’ some have called me. Now what does an oil baron do? The answer - crush your enemies! Grind their bones into dirt! Make them regret that they were ever born! Oil is not for the weak - it is the Earth’s milk, and only the strong may suckle at Mother’s teat!

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Jul 15, 2021 - 5:38pm

Mainly due to corruption. But it's sort of how things are done there. Ethical relativism. Like paying a bribe is normal.

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Jul 15, 2021 - 6:04pm

Okay, I see this "discussion" has gone full stormfront. This is why I rarely post on this website anymore. Going to see myself out. 

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  • Intern in IB - Ind
Jul 15, 2021 - 7:39pm

Going the same way as its neighbor occupied Rhodesia unfortunately. Very sad to see

Jul 15, 2021 - 11:34pm

Why do leftists have so much compassion for violent criminals and so little for their victims? The majority of South Africans don't support this rioting. Don't they have the right to live in peace and not have their livelihoods threatened by violent mobs? 

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Jul 16, 2021 - 12:10am

I'm right, well… libertarian. But voted trump last cycle. Believe in the clean slate theory that environment is the biggest influence on who you become. Those rioting did not come from backgrounds we can relate to in our society. I'm not condoning or supporting what they're doing… just stating it's hard to judge from how removed we are.

Jul 15, 2021 - 10:52pm

This is why the 2nd amendment exists and why anyone trying to take it away deserves to be dealt with just like these looters. Absolute insanity that people think this sort of thing is impossible in 1st world countries after what we saw happen last year. This is a country in its death throes. 

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  • Intern in IB - Ind
Jul 16, 2021 - 1:25pm

Completely agree. Property rights should be defended with any necessary force. Even in first world countries an armed populace is better.

Jul 16, 2021 - 4:13am

I work with some people from the Indian community in SAF, will post something about this later. It's really, really, really bad. Racial/tribal conflict. 

Some key elements.

1) It might sound really odd to Americans, especially the usual libs with their limited understanding of reality, but there's no such thing as racial unity among Sub-Saharian Africans. One of the main reasons behind their slow development is excessive tribalism and infighting. The more tribal groups a country has, the more unstable it is.

2) One of the tribal power centers since forever in SAF are the Zulus. Zuma was a Zulu, he got arrested on corruption charges, his tribe is backing him.

3) There are highly successful non-black minorities, namely the Afrikaneers (basically descendants of Dutch colonists) and the Indians. Those are the backbone of the economy, providing much of the professional class. This obviously cases resentment among other tribes. Hardly different from how the Jews were perceived in Europe at multiple times in history.

4) Zulus specifically went after the Indians and to a lesser degree the Afrikaneers. This was a targeted pogrom. Prez. Ramaphosa, who isn't a complete moron, realized this quickly and deployed some 25k troops. The damage to infrastracture and business has been massive, if Indians pack their things and leave, the country will collapse.

5) Lol at expecting CNN or any other liberal media to even acknoledge this. They lack the moral and intellectual integrity to admit that they might be ideologically wrong. South Africa is the model ''rainbow'' nation, the country that in the liberal theology should prove that once evil whites are removed from power, it'll be all fine and dandy. Should Zulus achieve a genocide of Indians and Afrikaneers, it's 100% guaranteed that the corporate media will call it a ''white supremacist conspiracy theory''.

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

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Jul 16, 2021 - 1:57pm

neink

I work with some people from the Indian community in SAF, will post something about this later. It's really, really, really bad. Racial/tribal conflict. 

Some key elements.

1) It might sound really odd to Americans, especially the usual libs with their limited understanding of reality, but there's no such thing as racial unity among Sub-Saharian Africans. One of the main reasons behind their slow development is excessive tribalism and infighting. The more tribal groups a country has, the more unstable it is.

I feel like this should be obvious to everyone who's educated.

2) One of the tribal power centers since forever in SAF are the Zulus. Zuma was a Zulu, he got arrested on corruption charges, his tribe is backing him.

Going off on a tangent. History of the Zulu kingdom during Shaka's rule is fascinating.

3) There are highly successful non-black minorities, namely the Afrikaneers (basically descendants of Dutch colonists) and the Indians. Those are the backbone of the economy, providing much of the professional class. This obviously cases resentment among other tribes. Hardly different from how the Jews were perceived in Europe at multiple times in history.

4) Zulus specifically went after the Indians and to a lesser degree the Afrikaneers. This was a targeted pogrom. Prez. Ramaphosa, who isn't a complete moron, realized this quickly and deployed some 25k troops. The damage to infrastracture and business has been massive, if Indians pack their things and leave, the country will collapse.

This reminds me of when Idi Amin took over in Uganda. Hope it doesn't happen.

5) Lol at expecting CNN or any other liberal media to even acknoledge this. They lack the moral and intellectual integrity to admit that they might be ideologically wrong. South Africa is the model ''rainbow'' nation, the country that in the liberal theology should prove that once evil whites are removed from power, it'll be all fine and dandy. Should Zulus achieve a genocide of Indians and Afrikaneers, it's 100% guaranteed that the corporate media will call it a ''white supremacist conspiracy theory''.

Jul 17, 2021 - 3:26pm

Bless you for being one of the few people who actually have some understanding of the situation there. It's basically a smaller scale balkanization that's happening because certain progressive political factions think they can group all of the black South Africans together. They think ignoring the different tribal histories of groups and snuffing out their individualistic traditions to use them as a singular voting block to implement race-based legislation will work, and clearly it doesn't. "For the nation to live, the tribe must die." - Samora Machel

Say what you want about Tucker, but the South African guy he's interviewing pretty much laid out the underlying pressure cooker that's lead to this situation. Funny how it sounds almost exactly like what one particular party is pushing here in the US. 

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  • Analyst 2 in HF - EquityHedge
Jul 22, 2021 - 12:59pm

accurate except for this retarded comparison of the boers to the jews lol - they literally enforced apartheid until the 90s my dude 

Jul 17, 2021 - 6:28pm

Because liberals are the most successful of all racists with their bigotry of low expectations and god/savior complexes while simultaneously convincing the ignorant that they are "fighting" the racism. This makes them the only ones capable of helping the poor nonwhites. It's not like you can just leave them be with the tools of a free market and let them create wealth for themselves, then they might make the wrong (illiberal) choices. Instead, they must be given everything, thereby fostering inherent dependence on said handouts and preventing them from being able to develop their own private ownership of production. I used to intern with a VC that did some seed investing in Africa and it's a nightmare over there to start a business because people are so accustomed to the aid/intervention of Western nations over the decades that a plurality have literally no incentive to control for themselves to make things better. This is why Gates and many other nonprofit healthcare organizations literally use Africa as a testing ground for their products, because the people are so dependent on free stuff that when someone comes along offering something they practically have to say yes. 

If you give a man a fish, he will eat for a day and be forced to do what you ask in order to keep getting the fish. Teach him to fish for himself and he will no longer be dependent upon your charity or subject to your requests (demands). 

  • Associate 1 in PE - LBOs
Jul 25, 2021 - 11:37pm

Drumpfy

Can the white nationalists pack up and leave?  South Africa and Rhodesia were worse before apartheid ended, and had much higher levels of crime and violence

I bet you're the same type of idiot who thinks that Europeans invented slavery and that before they came to the Americas that all the natives were just having peaceful orgies all the time. Newsflash, colonial powers brought order to what were previously regions with permanently warring tribes almost everywhere they went. They absolutely committed atrocities in their own right, as did 90% of countries in those ages, but to pretend that these regions were somehow more peaceful and less violent prior to being taken over is pure historical ignorance. 

Jul 16, 2021 - 8:05am

OK bunch of people turned this thread into a cesspool of low-key racism disguised as intellectual thought vs. rampant dumbass left-wing ideology.

Well guess what, I think y'all are both bigotted fools.

Don't bother trying understanding others or finding a solution. Just keep repeating whatever you "believe" in.

Jul 16, 2021 - 9:44am

The Non-Economist.            

Don't bother trying understanding others or finding a solution. Just keep repeating whatever you "believe" in.

Is this not what you just did?

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Jul 16, 2021 - 2:01pm

Sequoia

How do you counter stupid far left-wing ideology? You can't argue with those idiots. Conceding an inch to them means losing a mile later ("cOMMunIsM WErKs")

You can't. There will always be idiots. 

On the other hand, I think you can be influential enough or help someone who is to make sure that dumb ideologies left or right don't become the political majority.

I say this as a guy who leans slightly left of center

I always saw the real political struggle as the struggle between the idiots on both sides vs. responsible and sensible people on both sides. So left or right to me doesn't mean much.

Jul 16, 2021 - 12:39pm

The entire African continent is a mess, not one sizeable high-functioning society there...whereas plenty of at least decently well functioning countries in Europe / Asia / North America

Hell, even Latin America has Argentina and Chile 

Jul 16, 2021 - 12:48pm

not entirely true, there's some pretty livable places in Africa, and most countries in Africa besides outright shitholes like the Central African Republic are livable if you spend enough money. Morocco, Seychelles, Mauritius, Algeria, Gabon, Rwanda, Tanzania, Kenya, Tunisia, Namibia are all perfectly fine places to live, albeit with a higher percentage of poverty than a lot of places. The majority of the worlds countries (most of the Americas, all of Europe, China, almost all of southeast and east Asia) are actually liveable places, contrary to what Americans believe. 

Morocco literally has bullet trains... 

Jul 18, 2021 - 2:08am

Botswana is also rather upper tier.

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

  • Associate 2 in PE - Other
Jul 16, 2021 - 5:02pm

Guessing here but probs so they can shit on black people. Lots of thinly veiled (and blatant) racism in here disguised as a discussion.

Proof from some retard above: "Might wanna look into the history of South Africa, POC lover. Boers were called boers for a reason, it´s because they settled on land nobody cared for. Sure, their successors went overboard here and there, happens. But the blacks could have built anything they wanted, had they desired so. But no, they were too busy fighting their petty little clan wars. Fuck them."

Will wait for another retard to defend that too ^

  • Analyst 1 in AM - FI
Jul 17, 2021 - 11:51am

I also love the irony of any comment asking 'what historical factors played into this event' gets called nazi-rhetoric next to people literally quoting the bell curve, race biology, etc.

  • Intern in Research - FI
Jul 17, 2021 - 10:47pm

WallStreetOasis.com
AndyLouis

The fact that you let shit like this exist on literally every thread with no disciplinary action is gross. Hire some more fucking moderators and ban the racist shitposters. You guys have been looking the other way for far too long while claiming to be working on improving the environment here. There should not be a tolerance for blatant racism. I mean seriously... the only person I've seen you guys ban is that harmless AccountingMajor idiot 

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