S&P manipulation

Oh, for fuck's sake, QUIT BLAMING S&P!

They merely pointed out the obvious. Don't think Moody's is far behind. The only reason they're hesitating is because they're owned by Obama's cheerleader Warren Buffett.

The markets are doing exactly what they should be doing.

Stop bitching and find a way to turn a profit off of the whole thing

lol that is probably the stupidest thing that I have read on WSO to date

Well mcgraw hill (parent-company) did drop a shitload this morning

Well Obama..I assume that is the OP's real name, S&P merely pointed out what everyone had known for a while. It is akin to then downgrading the POS MBS in 2007. It should have been done long before. Everyone not on the administration's teat knew this SHOULD happen. Let me be the one to CONGRATULATE S&P for doing what NEEDED TO BE DONE.

America shouldn't have a AAA government rating. Hell, AA+ seems a little generous. Tons of smaller ratings agencies had downgraded us, just not the Big Three. There are actually a bunch of technical reasons the market broke down last week, and the fundamental reasons behind the failure of the debt resolution was there as well.

You need to stop crying. It infuriates me when liberals say that X company needs to be indicted because they did something that needed to be done- like fire a bunch of people. This isn't even as bad. You expect them to dupe the people relying on them forever? What about when the downgraded the PIIGS? I didn't see you whining then? But when you are affected you cry like a bitch. It's so annoying that anyone could be so childish.

Congrats on the grammar police win. My post also wasn't meant to insult anyone over the internet. The most disgusting traits in human beings seem to fester and corrupt the internet more and more every day. And just for your future vocab, there is a certain noun for one who perpetuates.

It is just like a fool to digress from the pertinent issue in order to insult someone because he has no ground to stand on. You sir are the problem in America, just as much as any convict or felon. Your ignorance is the fall of man.

Yes the fall of man, i.e. the concept throughout many religions that man's fall from grace was a result of his decision to revert to ignorance rather than using the knowledge that was bestowed unto him.

The key difference here being that S&P is a private entity who could completely be controlled by anyone on the street to manipulate equity markets.

And what if Bernanke should be indicted? I don't disagree with you but the private sector is easier to fix so let's start there.

Regardless of the number of languages you claim to speak the fact is, there are only rare occassions you should state absolutes such as "this is the stupidest thing I've read". Almost any argument when presented properly can provide a new way of thinking about a situation and that is growth.

Regards.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/08/us-usa-debt-congress-idUSTRE7…

looks like your prayers have been heard..this is becoming surreal very, very fast. if i lived in america i would really start look for exit ops...

It was bound to happen in the perspective of anyone with a real clue on what the markets were doing and how volatile everything became. As you can see from the posts in this thread, ignorance is quite common these days. Quite sad to be honest.

Wait... JTK, what exactly are you trying to argue? Despite having found myself in a fairly laxidazical and Moody-esque vantage of writing, reading and enjoying life these past few weeks, I've still been keeping abrest of the markets and the world around. What I don't understand is why you are throwing about big words, crazy ideas and grandiose concepts around.

Better yet, I don't understand why you think S&P should be indicted for doing their job? What makes you assume that S&P's downgrade was based around the belief of insider trading? Look at the world around you. We have 9+ percent unemployment, we have a debt ceiling of 14.7 Trillion Dollars (up from 14.292 Trillion Dollars the year before), and spent 60% of the increase in a day, there is inflation, misinformation and more stimulus than expected in order to create the illusion of a recovery. The cartels (pick your lobbying group or legally acceptable and publically approved mobs) are in bed with the politicians. The Fed Rate is 0-0.25, and has been for over 2 years. How much more information needs to be presented to you to indicate that US Debt may not be sunshine and raindrops like you think. How much publically available information do you want me to cite here that makes the case as to why the US needs to be downgraded? So why again are you assuming that S&P tried to manipulate the markets? The volatility and the data have been there for a significant enough time that this was to be eventually expected.

So, this brings me to the next thing I don't understand. Why are we trying to solely place blame on S&P when there are others who did far worse than S&P over the last few years? Why aren't you on the bandwagon for Glass-Stegal to be reinstated? What about the stances on the wristcuff fines that the SEC gave out to Wall Street? How about the use of HFT and Algorithmic trading and its ability to manipulate the markets? Are you against that too?

Now, the fall of man? I don't know about anyone else here, but as a practicing and observant Jew, you've got that concept all entirely wrong. The Fall of Man, according to both Jewish and Islamic theology, is about the loss of innocence and the acceptance of free will. Second, assuming the theology argument for a moment, God's omniscence allowed him to know that this would happen and the exodus from the garden was a change of condition and venue, not a change in humanity as you're implying. If anything, the fall of man is nothing more than a test of free will, something that God did, in fact, bestow upon us by creating us in his image.

"Why should S&P be indicted for doing their job?" :

I'll be honest, I read the charts as news and to me they seem more loyal than the balance sheet, income statement or any other alternative that could be turned to. As a result of that I can only tell you that buy/sell patterns were off on friday, so I decided to watch the news to see what the consensus was there and formed the opinion that was stated in my original post. I don't care about the numbers all I know is that the United States is the center of the entire debt system and as a result should never be regarded as anything other than the highest order of lendor/debtor.

"Why focus on S&P?":

The focus is on S&P because it is clearly the credit rating agency most in the limelight and made this illegitamate news spread like wildfire. On top of that, like I said, the buy patterns from previous days made it clear (after the news of S&P downgrade was officially revealed) that something odd was going on, and then we find out over the weekend S&P is going to downgrade.

"Now the fall of man?"

I can assure you I am well aware of the portrayal this event has in Judaism and Islam and it does extend beyond those two religions as well. The event had absolutely nothing to do with accepting free will (since men had the free will in the beginning with as is seen by the fact that man disobeyed God to incur the fall) and everything to do with man choosing to not act on the knowledge God (in Judaism) bestowed unto him. I'm sure you remember God telling man what he should not do but man chooses rather to revert to ignorance and play dumb when confronted. On this point I can agree to disagree.

OP, ur one dumb motherfucker....get a fucking clue dude

Strong argument you formed there. Care to expound?

jktecon:

Of course the stupidity of the general public is on a high order to actually sell based on this immaterial downgrade but there's nothing new there. .

you are in LEAGUE with the stupidity of the general public

I don't see why you had to throw explatives around to make that point. The general public is just that, it is the average person who enters the market and makes trade decisions on the news of the day with no plan.

Of course at any given point I could make a decision that enters into the category of common stupidity since I am human. I am only attempting to call a spade a spade, so if you feel that decision (to sell based on the S&P news) does not show a lack of judgement simply present your argument and I'll be glad to listen/rebuttle.

So what I've taken from this post: Way too many morons to try and debate, seriously one idiot after another. Second ignorance is only defended with more ignorance; my consistent replies to these posts led to a complete digression until finally the master of vocab mfoste summarizes the entire post with his expletives. A regular shakespere.

In the end the only reply of substance was by Lubyanka. Everyone else, sadly your intellect is seriously wanting.

Funny how no one could defend anything they stated and in the end my conclusion confirmed. Last time I share my insights with this forum.

Continue to wallow in stupidity.

If i did get dropped on my head I can assure you my IQ is still high enough to make this debate not much different than what a man might go through arguing with an Ape (save that the man would need to use sign language with the ape; ergo at least the ape understands the beauty of the unspoken word).

and Florida Atlantic University with a 3.1 gpa? nice

So now its "of course they will look into it" but before it was "the stupidest thing you ever read" (that the S&P should be indicted, which is exactly what congress is doing).

I'm sorry but you are the calamitous wretch destroying mankind. You are far worse than the man who realizes his lack of intelligence.

Your ignorance is a poison and you have done well to use your most valuable weapon to kill anything positive that could have come from this topic.

Regards.

JKT,

Usually, I refrain from petty name calling, but you sir, are a fuckwit twatwaffle of the highest order. Your stupidity amazes me outright. Having read your response to my comment above, I had to actually sit over a cup of coffee and make sure I understood what you were saying at all points excluding that of theology. I can't make heads or tales of how naieve you are or whether you are just a complete fucking moron.

With respect to Theology, if you really want to go toe to toe, and you want to try and argue that you know my faith better than me, then quote me from the original text and not a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation from the original scripture to Greek. Oh, and your argument is flawed even before you try and go use the scripture card.

Adam and Eve knew God intimately, as they were his creatures. He knew them and they knew him. There was no issue of knowledge of God to be had, as God knew what Adam and Eve were doing and instantly called them on it. They didn't lie or play ignorant as you propose. Even if you want to take a crack at arguing it, any sort of a knowledge issue (particularly the Knowledge of Good and Evil), wasn't brought up until the near end of the Chapter. I'll even do you a solid and quote the King James Version:

God, from the Book of Genesis, Chapter 3, Verses 22-24:

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man: and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

This, by the way, is why I hate arguing theology.

As to the argument concerning why you're wrong with S&P...

1) Being the Center of the Universe does not entail a guarenteed perfect rating. Likewise, having a reserve currency does not guarentee a perfect rating. Furthermore, without spelling things out much, I'd suggest clicking on this link, as it does a better job showing you the power of the interwebs than I can. Despite being dated from 2006, it's a pretty good overview of how S&P rates Soverign Debt. I'd pay attention to pages 4 and 7-18. If you are as "smart' as you claim to be, you should be able to pick up on how and why the US deserved to get the knockdown on their AAA rating based on the methodolgy alone.

2) You really think that the US Government wouldn't investigate this? They investigated Steroid use in Baseball, which really has no merrit from a legislative perspective. They like to make it look as though they are doing things that are important, and this is more form than function. They will find that S&P did nothing wrong and it will be a joke, like whenever Bernanke comes before Congress. There is no argument, legal precedent or standard for the government to use to indict anyone at S&P. Just like every other investigation, the government will issue a report and it will be read and glossed over. Nothing will come from it. Oh, and the technical name for this is called "Covering Your Ass". If the government doesn't, then it looks like they aren't doing their jobs.

And yes, trying to indict S&P for doing their jobs is one of the stupidist things I have read. That's like saying someone at McDonald's corporate should be tried because you decided to eat fast food all of your life. Absurdism doesn't work when you have a rational response to the question.

3) Groupthink (or in this case, your sole belief in Chartology) is bad. As derivs said, groupthink is what got us to this point in the first place.

Finally man... Stop using big words and making points without backing them up without the basis of a reasonable set of facts. You'll hurt yourself by sounding too much like an idiot. Oh wait, you already do.

I'm just saying.

On the subject of theology I said agree to disagree yet you write an epic post to form a new argument; nice. I prefer to use words that are in the dictionary so that you have the convenience of looking them up while also providing brevity to my posts (words like fucktwit and twatwaffle go right over my head so perhaps you're the one using big words?).

And unlike you and your friends I rely on logic to form arguments. A wise person would take what I say find the information for himself, form an argument and present it. He would not use numbers and documents from any one specific resource (which could very well be subjective) to form a conclusion. He would take a wealth of information and summarize it as close to a point as possible.

I really don't want to argue with you, because it just makes me sad and even more disillusioned with society in general. If you want to think I am the idiot for making an observation you are well within your rights to do so. Just keep this argument in mind every time you want to question the world around you.

When you ask why men don't do something to form a better more tasteful world, you should keep in mind how you berrate someone for having an opinion outside of your own.

Regards.

Lets break this down, shall we...

On the subject of theology I said agree to disagree yet you write an epic post to form a new argument; nice.

See - This is why Religion is not something to argue. However, your lack of actual response indicates that you are not as familiar with the actual text and theology behind it than you would care to admit, particularly when compared to someone who grew up having thoroughly studied the Old Testament and, admittedly, did not start studying the new Testament as a matter of curiousity until college.

I prefer to use words that are in the dictionary so that you have the convenience of looking them up while also providing brevity to my posts (words like fucktwit and twatwaffle go right over my head so perhaps you're the one using big words?).

Again, you with the big words and lofty ideas. Let me help you you with understanding why I called you a fuckwit twatwaffle. See, even Google can be your friend.

And unlike you and your friends I rely on logic to form arguments. A wise person would take what I say find the information for himself, form an argument and present it. He would not use numbers and documents from any one specific resource (which could very well be subjective) to form a conclusion. He would take a wealth of information and summarize it as close to a point as possible.

Logic 101 - Logic requires information to form an arguement and a viewpoint. A conclusion consists of an argument, said viewpoint, and proof in support of the argument. In the case where two people are discussing their viewpoints, proof is essential to determine whether or not your views are the reasonable and correct conclusion versus whomever you are talking to. Unless the viewpoint being argued is provided with actual supporting evidence and sound reasoning behind it as opposed to, well, the hot air that you are using to inflate your arguments, the logical conclusion can be made that your arguments are incorrect regardless of how much conviction you have in them. Ergo, Troll Fail!

I really don't want to argue with you, because it just makes me sad and even more disillusioned with society in general. If you want to think I am the idiot for making an observation you are well within your rights to do so. Just keep this argument in mind every time you want to question the world around you.

When you ask why men don't do something to form a better more tasteful world, you should keep in mind how you berrate someone for having an opinion outside of your own.

No, I don't think you're an idiot for making an observation. Far from it... I don't assume stupidity until stupidity can be proven. You are an idiot because all of your arguments are wrong and you have done nothing to actually prove your arguements are correct.

Now, I gotta be honest here, I can't help but think of some wise and inspiring words a great man once said...

Mark Hamill:

Don't fuck with the Jedi Master, Son.