Working in Professional Sports.
With the rise of analytics in professional sports decision making over the last 15 years, many ex-finance and mba types have moved over to work in front offices of various sports teams.
Examples include Tampa Bay Rays (but pretty much all of baseball now), the Rockets, Trail-Blazers, etc.
I know an ex goldman trader that quit their career and left hundred's of thousands of dollars to get a sort-of entry level position at a sports team.
Just curious on how many of you monkeys have been interested in working in front offices of various pro sports teams, have you interviewed for any positions, and would you turn down 6 figures and the finance/consulting career path for a 20k/year internship and a shot to become a GM one day?
Interested? Yes. IMO not worth the grind of working your way into/up in an industry that is significantly skewed at the high end. In most systems you're a low-end scout...for-life, and if not it is usually due to the fact that you have great industry connections, which in that rare case it sounds awesome.
The business of running a sports team is fascinating. You really, really, really need to be passionate about it or you'll never cut it. Guys start out at the lowest levels and work their way up over time. For instance, the Magic's current GM, Rob Hennigan, is 30 years old now, but he started at the lowest of levels. On the coaching end of things, Eric Spoelstra, of the Miami Heat, started out in the video editing room when he was like 20 or something like that.
I imagine there might be a real place for people with true analytical capabilities, but I'm not sure that the typical banking monkey has the chops to do the level of stats analyiss needed to move up the GM track. I could be wrong, though.
You would be surprised. Theo Epstien didn't know what a regression was before he got his first gig in baseball (padres ticket/marketing intern). There are some truly strong analytical people in baseball but the ones that make it o GM that never played serious pro/college baseball, like Epstein and Jon Daniels (cornell), are a bit of a mix...comfortable with numbers, polished, good negotiators and communicators...i.e. MBB types
I searched for a similar thread and I'm surprised no one has made it on here because throughout some interviews I've had with MLB teams (NBA hires this type too but it isn't as prominent as baseball), there are quite a number of people at all levels in front office operations that fit the 'target school/finance' profile but decided to grind it out in baseball.
I played in a fantasy league with one of the guys that works in analytics now for one of the NBA teams. The pay isn't that much and he had to relocate. Opportunities are very, very hard to come by and you're constantly on your feet because you're not sure when the guy that champions analytics will be canned year in and year out. If he's successful I think he'd be on the GM track. He told me you really need to be good at programming to get your foot in the door to start.
A lot also depends on what your stats are used for. For example, some teams just use stats as a back-up of sorts, while others use stats completely to come up with offensive and defensive schemes or not.
yep. mirrors a lot of what my experience as been talking to those in the league. That said, I don't know much about NBA analytics and it isn't as mature as baseball analytics. The rockets always try to hire an intern or two every year that have strong programming and DB skills and that's driven by Daryl Morey championing analytics.
I'm more knowledgeable about the process and landscape in baseball and because of the maturity of analytics use, though interns and analysts are usually there on a season-by-season basis at the beginning of their career, it is a bit easier to find another place in the league once you break in.
I looked into football scouting before I went into finance and what I can tell you is that it is a VERY difficult lifestyle. It might sound glamourous to watch football for a living but the reality is much different. You are on the road more than a consultant while getting paid next to nothing. There are only 32 (or less) GM spots at any given time so your promotion opportunities are limited.
Layer onto those headwinds that in banking as you move up the ladder, the pay gets better (true in football) while the hours get less (completely false). You do get off the road somewhat but you are stuck spending every moment of your day watching film of some sort or another. Then remember if you are GM, you have very little control over your fate: the fan who is drinking a 6 pack of Natty and calling into Sports Talk radio in between sessions of Jerry Springer re-runs will be the one evaluating you. Sure they say that the owner has final say, but those people vote with their wallets (look at the stadiums for some perenial losers). That is not to say that the fringe benefits are not amazing: Super Bowl rings (maybe), fame, and working in a sport that you love. You just have to look and see if it is a game that you really want to play. Remember, if you go down this path, unlike finance, there are few/no exit opportunities: it is for life. Could you see yourself hiring someone with 5-10 years of football scouting experience?
Good Post. As for exit ops, I think it really depends on the educational background of the individual. I have zero idea about what football analytics/scouting is like. Scouting also is a very narrow part of front office ops. I would imagine in football, your 'target school/finance profile' types are in more generalist roles that straddle player analytics with cap-management, labor/contract management etc.
You are also completely right about the hours not getting better as you go up the chain. Unless you move over to the office of the commissioner, on teams everyone is grinding from top to bottom.
I think in baseball those that go in as non-traditional analysts to front offices I believe can leverage their baseball front office experience into moves at nike or other sporting goods/entertainment companies if their networking was solid.
Remember we aren't talking about the SEC all-star who left in his junior year, flamed out in double-a, and is taking a scouting job....the types i'm talking about that litter baseball are your columbia/amherst/ivy grad that interned a year or two on a team and has a background not in baseball (or the sport).
oh and you are definitely right that this is not glamourous work. Doing advance scouting, pitch identification on hours of tape and charting and then manupulating pitch f/x field f/x data is anything but glamourous.
I should clarify a bit a bout football. It really doesn't have as much analytics to it as the other sports. This is not only because of the extreme specialization of skills (think O-Line vs. WR) but also because of different systems that demand different things from players (Think of Wes Welker vs. Calvin Johnson). The other thing that no one is addressing is that football teams generally prefer to hire someone with a football background.
The other part that you mention in the front officem I should probably address in turn: 1) Cap-management: You need a background in scouting for this to really add value. It is not only about manipulating how much money the player will cost you on the cap but also if their potential contributions (remember not past ones) are equal to or greater than their salary cap charge. For an extremely easy example, take two starting QBs: Russell Wilson on a 3rd Round Rookie contract vs. Mark Sanchez's last deal with the Jets ($8m and change against the cap). If Mark Sanchez played like Russell Wilson, his deal would be fair and vice versa. It gets more tricky when you are evaluating potential free agents and that is where the scouting comes in.
2) Labor/Contract Management: Probably need a background more in law than in finance for this.
3) Player Analytics - While they continue to improve in the NFL. Probably better suited for another sport.
4) Marketing - Probably your best bet in terms of exit opps (Nike, Adidas, etc) but given the audience of this board, you need to get into the marketing analytics for a team. These departments are extremely small and will be EXTREMELY competitive and difficult to break into.
Corporate Finance for Sports (Originally Posted: 06/17/2010)
One of my greatest long-term goals is to combine my financial skills with my love for sports, as I'm sure others have in the past. Does anybody know of anyone who has gone from banking or consulting to running the finances of a professional or division one college program? I figure most teams in the NFL or NBA don't want some kid fresh out of college working their finances, so I was curious what the general career path for that is, if anyone has that experience.
I think they typically look for CPA types, and you gotta network your butt off to get in
I know for a fact some banks do Sports Investment Banking. I think one of them is Allen & Co (they are old school- no website). Fortune had a piece on some guy that worked for them in a recent issue so search their site for that.
I think Park Lane is another bank that works in sports. I also think BoA has a Sports Advisory group.
http://corp.bankofamerica.com/public/public.portal?_pd_page_label=produ…
Former Bankers in Sports (Originally Posted: 08/20/2013)
At the more entry level, as in post IBD analyst stint, do any of you know if corporate development type roles exist in sports teams? Obviously, one can go do marketing, accounting, for these teams, etc. But wondering if you all know if more "glamorous" roles exist within sports teams for bankers a few years out of college?
Really haven't heard of much...save for a few exceptional stories. Curious what you guys know/think.
Every big sports team also has a "front office," i.e. decision-makers. I don't have too much first-hand knowledge, but the people who get the glamorous jobs almost always have a very traditional sports background, whether being a star athlete in college/pro, well-respected coach, family connection through the owner, etc. I would bet that getting an MBA and developing a strong network is key. Just like an athlete would pursue ex-athlete-bankers if trying to break into IBD, find ex-bankers who have landed in front office roles with teams.
If you find anything useful, would you mind PM'ing me?
Casey Wasserman used to be a banker
I was the Director of Corporate Relations for the San Diego Stingrays. My finely tuned analytic abilities were utilized most often in determining why Master P wasn't where he was supposed to be. Had dinner with Cal Ripken, Jr. one night, though, so there's that.
Absolutely. Take a look at the Tampa Bay Rays front office. The owner, Stu Sternberg, sold Spear Leeds & Kellogg to Goldman and then bought the Rays and he hired a bunch of former Bear Stearns M&A guys. As sports teams shift towards utilizing modeling and more advanced statistics there has been a run on hiring smart people who have those skills.
what are some good jobs in the sports industry (Originally Posted: 09/29/2007)
Hi, (sorry, I don't know where else to put this and this forum probably gets the most views, so yeah)
I was wondering what are some good jobs in the sports industry? I don't want to come across as being shallow, but I do want top make decent money, so I was wondering what are some jobs that are in the sports industry that can eventually make me around 100-120k or so? I'm really into sports, and if consulting doesn't work out (which it most likely won't since I'll wind up going to University of Oregon due to financial reasons), I was wondering if there are jobs that can make a lot of money in this industry.
Athlete?
i agree. definitely athlete. you may even surpass the 120K range.
uhhh OK. All jokes aside (I'm far from athletic), what are some good jobs?
In all seriousness, you are going to have to define the "sports industry" a bit more. Do you mean with an actual professional sports league/team? Within the overall realm of sports (i.e. sports marketing, apparel, etc) There lots of different types of positions within these areas.
I'm sure there are some well paying jobs, but I'm not sure there are entry-level jobs at the salary level you are looking for, so you would have to put in some hard years before cracking the 100k+ salary band.
I recommend you check out their website and look at the careers section. I'm sure that a degree as vocational as sports management is going to plaster job opportunities and career paths all over its website.
http://www.scps.nyu.edu/departments/degree.jsp?degId=15
Hope this helps.
Isn't this kinda the wrong forum for this question? Like, complete wrong website, even?
I have a buddy who works for the NFL. Pretty sweet job. However you should be warned, getting into such a job is extremely difficult. It isn't like the big leagues have hiring programs like the big Banks, so you need to be 10x as proactive in trying to get a top notch job with a sports league/team as you would with getting a job at an IBank.
Sports Team Finance/Accounting Team (Originally Posted: 08/17/2013)
There is no real section for this so I'm just putting it in here. If anyone has a problem with that, just let me know.
As of now, I go to a semi target in terms of ibanks/consulting etc, but I really had no interest in going that route and didn't even apply. I wanted to do something more accounting related, call me crazy if you will, as I know that side is really not popular on here. Anyways, I did an internship in assurance at one of the Big 4 this past summer and signed on for full time after graduation. I plan on working here for at least 3 years, which is when everyone seems to jump ship. If I really like it, I will stick around and move up as high as I can within the firm. If I don't, I will be looking at exit opportunities. And that is where my question arises.
All summer long, full time employees and interns at this Big 4 firm were talking about how we have to find an industry that really excites us and try and stick with it. Theres obviously financial services, but that doesn't really interest me. I went through everything, and while some things spark an interest, nothing really gets me overwhelmed or extremely excited. Thats when I thought about my interests, and I obviously realized sports is my biggest one. However, there is no sports industry that exists to audit from, like there is for A&D, manufacturing, tech, financial services etc. That got me thinking about exit ops, and how I would love to be a CFO/controller/even something lower on the totem pole (accounting manager if it exists?) for a sports team, especially one of my teams like the Bears, Blackhawks, Cubs etc. My question is, how does one go about breaking into this "industry/market?" How would I network my way in, say with 3 years of public accounting experience? How much experience does one need for these positions? Would it be wise to start networking now, and if so, how would I go about doing it (email around people with these positions on linked in and ask for informal interviews regarding how they got to the position they are in?)? And not that it really matters, although I would like to live somewhat comfortably, does anyone know how much these positions make per year? Sports is a real interest of mine, so I would love to try and break into this market at some point down the line. Sorry for the long read and thanks for any advice regarding this!
anyone with any info on this?
interested as well in sports related finance
anyone??
Sports related PE/Corp Dev/Start up (Originally Posted: 12/27/2017)
I’m sure a lot of people on this forum love sports (whether it’s watching, playing or even betting). I’ve been think about what I could do 2-3 years down the road after IB/PE and wanted to see if people had thought about this route before.
Some places I’ve come across are Bruins Sports Capital for PE and then well known sports brands like Under Armour/Nike, although idk if they have a strong Corp Dev team.
Have you considered a sports route (whether it’s PE, corporate consumer/retail, or even sports tech?)
Hey UENYC, I'm here because nobody responded to this thread after a few days...maybe one of these resources will help you:
If we're lucky, maybe I can guilt some users to help you out: Andrew-Shvartsman ajsoares2017 DaBBzMan
I hope those threads give you a bit more insight.
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