S/T, IBD conflict please advise

p1aty's picture
Rank: Chimp | 9

Here's the situation:
-Applying for SA IBD from an Ivy target
-Have connections and if I wanted I could probably get a job pretty easily in NY at a top BB in S/T

I know all about S/T from growing up/internships I've had and think I might enjoy IBD better, or at the very least I'd be an idiot to blow my last summer to intern on S/T and never know what IBD is like. That said, I don't seem to be getting first rounds back from IBD and I have already from the one top bank that I know my connections do NOT know anyone at and I'm pretty sure I got the call back because I impressed this ED at their info session who I spoke to afterwards.

After talking to ED I really like what he does (very specific niche in in S/T) and I'm really interested in it, that said all the apps I've already put in are only for IBD (not S/T at all) with the exception of this one bank (from whom I haven't even heard back re: IBD) and I've done no prep for S/T interviews as opposed to IBD which I'm prepped out for.

For banks with deadlines in January for NY will it hurt my chances if I apply to S/T as well as IBD? I know I'd prefer IBD because like I said I feel like I need to intern in it before saying I definitely want to do S/T (esp because I know so much about it already) but I know I would enjoy S/T as a career.

And please dont reply with the jobs are so different unless you can substantiate the statement against the following sentence. I enjoy trading/coming up with strats and I also somehow enjoy doing schoolwork for days at a stretch and killing myself at it. Although this may be a narrow view, I think I would be a good fit for either division.

Comments (19)

Dec 8, 2010

Have you seen the regulations? S&T is just about dead. Not to mention computers will replace those left over. Definitely choose IBD for the exit ops and flexibility and ability to have a great future no matter what.

It also sounds like you're learning towards IBD and trust me you learn a lot more in IBD and about real important things like why things work the way they do rather than a specialized skillset in S&T pressing buttons all day and watching oil futures or just coaxing old rich men on the phone for their money.

Dec 8, 2010

Why did you get money crapped?

Dec 8, 2010

wish i had wso credits so i could sling some more shit at boutiquebank4life.

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.

Dec 8, 2010

I'll do it for ya

Dec 8, 2010

Is he wrong?

Dec 8, 2010

I'm not wrong but of course the traders like TRADE4SIZE will be mad. You see what I mean? Kid can't even afford bananas online for a dollar. Definitely not a baller. The bankers def got bananas, like me.

Dec 9, 2010
boutiquebank4life:

I'm not wrong but of course the traders like TRADE4SIZE will be mad. You see what I mean? Kid can't even afford bananas online for a dollar. Definitely not a baller. The bankers def got bananas, like me.

Doubtful.

I think the really shocking thing is why investment bankers are still in business. If I ever decide to open an investment bank, I will walk into McDonald's, offer to double everyones' pay, and hire a bunch of analysts to work in Excel and ask the markets guys gems like "Is this quote in simple or complex interest?" and "What's a call feature?"

I honestly have no idea why banks still manage to charge 3% for a debt issuance.

Dec 9, 2010
IlliniProgrammer:
boutiquebank4life:

I'm not wrong but of course the traders like TRADE4SIZE will be mad. You see what I mean? Kid can't even afford bananas online for a dollar. Definitely not a baller. The bankers def got bananas, like me.

Doubtful.

I think the really shocking thing is why investment bankers are still in business. If I ever decide to open an investment bank, I will walk into McDonald's, offer to double everyones' pay, and hire a bunch of analysts to work in Excel and ask the markets guys gems like "Is this quote in simple or complex interest?" and "What's a call feature?"

I honestly have no idea why banks still manage to charge 3% for a debt issuance.

No wayy, even kids in M&A/Coverage would know that, let alone DCM/LevFin. I don't believe that bullshit

Dec 8, 2010

How can anyone possibly tell you what you'll enjoy... this is a silly question, you need to figure this shit out on your own. This is what internships are for anyways...

BoutiqueBank does have a point in that, generally IB gives you broader exit opps

Dec 8, 2010

here's to hoping i get to make the decision

Dec 8, 2010

I'm a bit surprised your dad can't just talk to a few bankers at his firm to chat with you... or at least give you an introduction so you can make your own impression. I mean, I know it's not like everyone knows everyone across a large IB, but generally it's not too hard for one MD to make some calls to his friends that may be closer to bankers and so on...

Anyway, I would suggest you apply to both to hedge your bets. But definitely try and use your connection to land a IB offer for your final summer - then you'll get to know for sure which of the two you're more suited for/more interested in.

Dec 8, 2010

I am speaking to bankers that I've met through info sessions (want to keep my dad out of it) but my question which HR says no to but I've heard otherwise is will they take me less seriously if i seem like I just want something and dont care wht?

Dec 9, 2010

Boutiquebank got shit on shit on because he is an asshole who routinely gives one sided or half-truth advice--and that's when he is not attacking people who have better jobs than him.

You have interned in S&T, do you really think it is people pressing buttons all day? Also, this has been covered before on this site, but computers can't trade a lot of products and computers will NEVER remove the human element.

As for banking, I suppose it provides a wider skill set in terms of exit opps, but that is fine. If you go into trading, its because trading is YOUR career. Most people go into banking because they want to be somewhere else.

A few points,
You can apply to different areas of a bank such as S&T and IBD without a problem. Most banks even encourage it, such as BAML and JPM. I know a person who interviewed for S&T, Cap Mkts, IBD, Equity Research, and ops for BAML and had 3 Superdays in one day for those divisions (interviews were not very long). That said, when you are in the interview, your answer is XXX is the only thing for me. Period. If they ask where else you are interviewing, you say bank names, not divisions. If they ask for divisions, you tell them about you IBD interviews and then you mention that you understand how competitive IBD is so you applied to a few other things just in case you didn't get IBD, but IBD is where you really want to be.

2--Please for the love of God, use your father. Finance is all about connections and you might as well use the ones you have. I have gotten interviews at BB from connections that my 3rd and 4th grade teachers had.Don't waste a possible avenue of success on some misplaced pride.

Dec 9, 2010

The fact that your father is in Finance should make this situation fairly easy to navigate. As Gekko said, you would be doing yourself a HUGE disservice by not using your father. Even if he doesnt have pull at XYZ bank, he can easily talk to someone who does.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

Dec 9, 2010

OP - I also agree with Gekko and happypantsmcgee to get your dad's help on this. While it's noble you want to get the offer on your own merit, finance is a business built on relationships, and since you really want to try IB - this is a great way to get interview opps. You still have to do well during the summer to get a return offer, and that will be on your merit. So don't hesitate using your dad's connections for interviews.

I've applied to both S&T and banking for the same bank before and had both interviews (and the conversation of S&T vs. banking - what do I want - didn't come up until later rounds).

Dec 9, 2010

Fair enough. Can't disagree with any of what you guys have said, although I would be curious to hear if you guys have been in charge of recruting, and if so how you look at kids applying to both divisions.

Dec 9, 2010
p1aty:

Fair enough. Can't disagree with any of what you guys have said, although I would be curious to hear if you guys have been in charge of recruting, and if so how you look at kids applying to both divisions.

I'm not sure your going to get an answer since it usually takes a VP or higher to be in charge of recruiting for their product group (analysts do a lot of the grunt work with reading resumes and stuff).

From my experience a lot of banks don't really keep track of a candidate applying to multiple divisions nor do I really understand why an interviewer would really care.

As for kids applying to both divisions, my personal opinion is that I don't really care. Although, I am a person who understands what it is like on the ground and in the trenches. Later on in my career if I have kid reneg on an offer, I won't care because I understand that a guy needs to do what a guy needs to do. I might as well find a candidate that can't wait and thinks that the offer I just gave him is better than sex.

Dec 9, 2010
p1aty:

Fair enough. Can't disagree with any of what you guys have said, although I would be curious to hear if you guys have been in charge of recruting, and if so how you look at kids applying to both divisions.

It depends on the person. I helped go through resumes of applicants before, and flagged ones I thought were good - but couldn't be bothered to read the covers (though I skimmed a few at random). I didn't care - but obviously up for someone more senior to make final shortlist.

I have met people who deliberately asked questions to feel out applicants - to determine if the division they are interviewing for is a 'second choice'. But similarly, have met people who don't care - there's so many applicants, if 1 guy you like is on the fence b/w IB and S&T by final rounds, you've got a few others to choose from.

Dec 9, 2010
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