S&T Sales role- what can I do to move to the buy side?

Hey guys, 

I've been working in an S&T sales role at a BB for over a year now. I feel like I did not really develop any actual skills and my resume is shit. Since I'm not on a trading desk, I've never taken any risk or managed a book. I am afraid that I will be pigeon holed as a sales person and won't be able to move anywhere. I see that a lot of roles on the buy side require IB experience and research experience and some trading. 

So my question is, what are some actionable items that I can do right now to be able to go to the buy side? I don't expect to go immediately of course, but maybe down the road in 2-3 years. I'm more interested in a PM track role rather than other sales role like IR.

I will be promoted to an associate next year. Do you think I will be able to go to a trading or research desk with 2 years of experience on a sales desk within the bank? Any advice will be greatly appreciated. 

Do you think it is bad that I did not really develop any good skills? I feel like my peers at other desks probably have become experts in their fields. I really feel awful about myself so any advise would be greatly appreciated.  

 
Most Helpful

CFA, have your own view on market...idk nobody is going to hand you anything, you have to go and claim it yourself. Also...why is it bad to be "pigeon holed" as a sales person? i get wsb hates on s&t alot, but honestly why is it bad to be pigeon holed to something? Be very good, better than 95% of your competition at something, and youre effectively irreplaceable. 

if you want to move to buyside, take cfa, read and develop your own view on market, understand how to add value. you always have a client, you are always selling, whether you are a PM selling to investors or an analyst selling to your PM. again, nobody is going to hand you it, go work smart and earn it. 

edit: i highly highly doubt any first or 2nd year analyst has become an expert at their field. they may have refined their bs'ing ability, but thats about it. 

 

what specifically do you want to do on "the buyside" ?

are you looking to be an execution trader?  a portfolio manager? a research analyst? investor relations?

you can't shotgun blast here....you to have a specific goal...and then you can work towards that goal.

if all you want to do is "be employed on the buyside" then you can get a job as a secretary.

just google it...you're welcome
 

I've had similar concerns because I feel like the skills and market knowledge you learn isn't tangible at all. There are a lot of things that should be automated that aren't (came as a big surprise to me). You'll have to work years before you ever see consistently see some type of idea generation. I am also aiming at some sort of research analyst --> Junior PM role down the line, is it worth it to spend all that time getting the CFA or should I focus on networking and creating my own trade ideas/view on the market.

 

I feel the same way.. i am FO my job literally feels like a back office job.. what am I gonna put on my resume, booked sales? Conferenced people into phone lines? Did a bunch of compliance tasks?

 

Ok seriously I feel like I'm not learning shit. Bookings take up most of my time and seem to be a top priority for at least the first 1-2 years. But honestly, I feel like I haven't used my brain in months. I see that it takes years to get to the point where you're actually pitching ideas and getting people to act on your ideas. As of now... I've done nothing and I know I'm capable of much more. These big banks are dinosaurs anyway so I'm started to look at fintech giving the number of inefficiencies that I've seen in my day-to-day, but HF would also be fun and match my background.

Edit: If I have to teach myself the majority of the products anyway... why am I there? My top priority at this point in my career is to LEARN... not to DO mindless shit that should have been automated years ago.

 

i've seen many sales people get investing roles at hedge funds...the common factors are

1) they do their own market research (lots of reading and combining research from other sources + their own price timing nuance), and come up with thematic trade ideas and consistently send them out to their hedge fund clients

2) they keep track of their "model portfolio P&L" over time...pretending to be a HF PM and send this out to their clients

3) they stay on top of market news developments...they know what is driving markets and their thematic trades have relevance to the news cycle.

4) their thematic trades are right more often than they are wrong...positive model portfolio P&L

good luck

just google it...you're welcome
 

Used to be in Sales at BB - what I can say is try to move across to a derivatives desk if possible (depending on your project). Also, take charge of your research - I used to send research notes to clients every day in the morning with my thoughts and views (not just relaying what the research team had to say). Lastly, depending on the bank and desk - I generated extra P&L by not immediately covering trades with my trading team (before you do this check with your desk head). Apologizes for any typos here. 

 

OP - so much depends on a few things.. Your product and relationship with clients. There are plenty of products where salespeople have gone into buyside jobs (not fundamental equities, that's for sure), whether in research, execution trading or as a PM. The more transactional/booking types, no surprise, end up being on the execution/relationship management side.

The ones that do research (few, they more like filter research etc since that was kind of their job at the bank) or become a PM were quasi traders at the bank. This means they knew the products, saw how they traded, understood how PnL worked, upside/downside scenarios, how clients traded each product and when etc. In other words, they thought like traders. They might go to x-fund and be like "hey I see you trade this product when the market is here, I've got this for you, seems like it fits the profile?" Regardless, the client will give feedback and may start talking about why/why not etc. This also takes relationship building.. Which is your job... Learn by osmosis.

This takes time, experience, brains (which most have, trading is not rocket science), and genuine effort.

OP - I don't know your product, but step one is to network on your desk and nearby desks. Learn the product(s) from traders. How they view things, how they make prices, how they build a book or try to add/get rid of stuff, how they think about liquidity. Ditto research people.. Ask them how they get their views, what they think about names, why they think like that etc. Network with higher ups.. Maybe something opens up on another desk and you can jump since you will be a known and liked commodity rather than some dude coming in out of the blue...

In short - be an internal salesperson/good person, a positive on the desk. Post-COVID, buy people beers, or bring in snacks on Friday or something to the desk. Help out after hours. An intermediate step may be to jump into trading after a few years in sales. It happens. The reverse also happens where traders go into sales, and I can tell you that I know at least a few traders who would much prefer to be in sales and think trading on the sellside is a huge grind.

Good Luck

I used to do Asia-Pacific PE (kind of like FoF). Now I do something else but happy to try and answer questions on that stuff.
 

Sales and trading is a learn by osmosis job (COVID is killing the analysts, especially in sales), nobody is going to teach you anything unless you ask especially in sales.  You gotta show you can do the basic stuff without screwing up before you are going to get any real responsibility.  The longer you are around you start to learn how trades happen and why (an understanding of the product is important but its not everything) and you will develop a feel for how different clients/traders like information presented to them and how they think about things.  You should be in most of the chats so you can see the dialogue, if you feel like you are missing something than ask one of the more senior guys to take some time to go over it with you at the EOD or something like that.  Knowing how to be presistent without being annoying is 90% of the job.  

 

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just google it...you're welcome

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