Stress in banking - The Deeper Reasons...
In my experience, it's not the long hours.
You knew what you signed up for.
It’s neither the challenges nor the fast-paced environment.
You guys enjoy the adrenaline rush, don't you?
The deeper issues of stress and emotional pain in my opinion are:
1 - The lack of respect: Being treated disrespectfully by your boss or other people in the firm.
2 - The lack of trust: You see others being treated badly which sends danger signals to your unconscious mind, “This could happen to me tomorrow”. You can’t bring your full self to work. You have to protect yourself. It’s the prisoner’s dilemma in game theory. If everyone around operates in a Nash equilibrium mode, you know very well that in order to survive you have to play Nash, too.
3 - Lack of context: You don’t know why you do what you do. Why is your role important? Why is this task you’ve been assigned important? How does the business work? How does your work contribute to the vision of the business and the world? Again, your unconscious perceives lack of context as a clear threat.
4 - Lack of deep relationships: No one knows what you think, feel or want. Your manager doesn’t know you although you spend more hours with him or her than with anyone else in your life.
5 - Lack of growth/learning: You feel stuck. No one asks you what skills you would like to develop or put into practice. No one sits down to work out the intersection between your vision and the organisation’s vision.
That's my take on this. Over to you now.
What are the deeper reasons of stress?
—Angelos
The lack of sleep exacerbates the issues that you mentioned. I don't think any of them in isolation drive people to their breaking point - it's that they occur under conditions that are incredibly hostile to the human mind and body (long-term sleep deprivation). I'm in ER so not subject to the same hours as the IB crowd but notice that my stress levels and reactions to outside shocks are significantly more pronounced during earnings season, when I am getting a lot less sleep.
Lack of sleep!!! I should have added that, true!! Well, now I'm thinking about it... what's the deeper reason why someone can't sleep?? Any ideas? Sometimes, it's also deep unconscious beliefs.. a feeling of never being good enough, perfectionism, constant striving to prove yourself, etc. Are you enjoying ER btw? Thanks for sharing, Angelos.
All of these are true. I used to work in banking as an analyst but I'm out of industry now. I subconsciously took a bunch of horrible habits from banking and molded it to my management style at my current role. Shocker... people outside of high finance do not appreciate being told "where's XYZ, it's been 20 minutes since I last emailed" hahah
Lol yes so true!!! What do you do now?
Run 2 businesses. No longer in finance. More on engineering side
During my long term internship in a top US BB (GS, MS, JPM) I realized that one of the biggest factors leading me to breaking point was the zero tolerance for mistakes approach that the team (and others) had even for interns in their 1st week. Obviously a top shop like this would be very demanding but that was way beyond.
Led me to be super anxious before sending sth over even to the most easy going associates, which in turn gave way to insomnia, panic attacks and heart palpitations. Just to mention that I was overall a strong intern with considerable experience before joining. Cannot even imagine what "less strong" or less experienced interns felt.
What kind of team was that if I may ask?
All of these things are called having a job. Most jobs in America dont have any of these. I would actually say there's more relationship building and growth/learning opportunities in banking than 90%+ of jobs
What other jobs have you had where things are better on these dimensions?
Damn bro that is some strong cope. Where can one pick up some cope that strong?
You are the problem.
literally anything that isn't in professional services?
Which jobs?
Surely not service jobs like retail, waiter/waitress, Uber drivers etc
Not really corporate jobs either where you need to spend 5 years as a mid level accountant working 9-5 and maybe you get a promotion after
Struggling artist?
Healthcare? I dont think nurses feel like they have all these things
There are definitely issues in banking. But if you step back and compare it to most other jobs you realize there are a lot of positives to
And I would definitely say relationships and learning / growth are a BIG positive for banking. Like that's one of the few non-financial reasons to do it
The concern around no viable alternatives — corporate world seems stagnant and boring, but banking is often soul crushingly fast paced.
Disagree with lack of growth/learning, agree with the rest. You probably learn more in a shorter period of time than in virtually any other field, which is part of why business schools and recruiters count a year in IB as almost double a year anywhere else. Outside of money there aren't many areas where IB has a huge advantage over "normal" white collar jobs, but a clear sense of career progression and learning is one of them.
I work in banking (idk why this risk management situation is coming up). Is it just me or does everyone feel lost and has no direction regarding further steps? I feel I’m on a major self sabotage mission. I’m just stressed out all the time, drowning in anxiety. Everyone tell me I’m super ungrateful because I have a lot - which I do. I just feel a sense of nothing all the time and I’m just plain - unhappy worrying about what people have to say about me or my career. All these kids have clarity regarding PE/Corp dev and I have like a major FOMO either way I go.
You're what, like 24? Just go with it. You have no real obligations and started your career with one of the best jobs you can get out of undergrad. Your optionality is off the charts. If you aren't sold on PE go grab and MBA and do something else. When you're a thirty something associate with a wife, kid, fewer exit options and still working junior IB hours then you're in a rough spot. But as an analyst? Don't sweat it.
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