studying abroad junior year
I attend a target school and would love to study abroad fall semester of junior year, is this a good idea?
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Why not?
Because of on campus recruiting and what not
I think you pretty much answered your own question.
Think of it this way: your chances of going abroad to live are pretty limited once you have a career in your home country (unless that job takes you abroad) and you have a family. IB is difficult to get into either way you look at it.
I went abroad during my bachelor's and thought it was a life-changing experience, so I did my master's abroad as well. I am biased. And I also think investment banking is very overrated.
Not necessarily IB, but just jobs in general
Study abroad. You have your entire life (and senior year?) for jobs.
I studied abroad fall semester junior year and got dinged on phone interviews after they asked if I'd be back any time soon. I go to a non-target though, so you could have it different but most likely not. I don't regret it though. Absolutely amazing experience and when I got back I was still able to land an international internship in a different country instead. I also met a bunch of students who studied with me after their internships as seniors and they definitely enjoyed it more because they had already gotten return offers and didn't need to worry.
ah okay, so i might consider going senior year then
If you have the opportunity to study abroad for a semester, you will never regret it. It was the best decision I ever made, and I only went for a summer after my sophomore year(I interned in the summer after my freshmen year, so I thought I was ahead of the game.) If you study somewhere with a strong finance presence, you could network in that area and try to apply for positions in that country, maybe get an informational interview with someone in that office, Traveling to Europe for more than a week is invigorating, I highly recommend it. It's a great talking point in interviews, as well.
How about junior spring?
Also wondering this. I'm planning on going spring semester this year, which looks like it'll be fine for most places since it's all so early this year, but the BX program I really want doesn't begin recruiting until January. Wondering how badly my chances will be hurt by not being able to conduct an interview in person.
Dude - do it. Studying abroad has only helped me in interviews. It makes you a much more interesting candidate. If you went traveled to the same place as your interviewer you'll have a pretty good chance of making a strong connection.
Like everyone else said, it's honestly your only chance to study abroad too before you're in the real world so take advantage of it.
Yeah, just trying to gauge how much this will hurt my recruiting
I know a SA at GS / MS / JPM who was abroad last fall. He said it was a pain in the ass but ultimately worth it. Don't think it worked out as well for other people, but I would highly value the opportunity to spend a semester abroad. Go in the spring if you're that concerned about recruiting. Senior year is an option I guess but personally I would want to spend my entire senior year at normal college
Thanks, I guess I'll just have to think about this, I still have time
For context, I attended a target school in New York and had no connections in the industry, However, I spent two years abroad during my four year dual degree program and it didn't harm me in the slightest. I had offers from all the BBs for internships and eventually went directly to the buyside following it. If you're a competitive candidate and you're willing to put in the time, it shouldn't be an issue,
What years did you go?
My MM doesn't interview people who are abroad in the fall unless they need to fill additional slots after the first round of superdays.
Studying Abroad 2018 Fall of Junior Year --- Death wish? (Originally Posted: 12/26/2017)
I'm currently a sophomore at a non-target, but a top 20 liberal arts college. We get OCR from three of the BBs and around 3-4 MM firms. However, we only send about one or two students at most each year to each of the BBs and MMs (Jefferies, Lincoln, Stifel, WB, HW). In total, we only send about 6-8 students a year to IB SA roles (to be fair, only like 20 kids are serious about pursuing IB since we are a liberal arts college). I currently have a 3.9+ GPA with a boutique IB internship under my belt and a Fortune 250 corporate dev/ M&A internship set up for this coming summer.
My dilemma here is the fact that I've been looking forward to studying abroad in fall of my junior year, but as recruiting is getting earlier and earlier, it seems like things get complicated. The reason I would strongly prefer going in the fall as opposed to spring is because ~55-60% of my school's juniors study abroad and basically all of them go in the fall. I just feel that going abroad in the spring when none of my friends or classmates are going will be a totally different experience, and I would miss out on the unbelievable memories my friends would make traveling together to different countries over the weekends.
Now I know that a lot of the banks have eased up on "penalizing" kids who go abroad during recruiting season (for an example, Jefferies and JPM didn't even take resumes from kids at my school that went abroad until this year - maybe because first rounds were done in person on campus?) Some firms like Citi and MS claimed this year that they would give interviews/superdays in August for kids who go abroad in the fall, but it seems like this was only applicable to kids at Target schools. Some top-tier MMs still refused to interview kids this year that are abroad, probably because they didn't want to go through the hassle of paying for their flights? On the other hand, I have been networking pretty heavily, and a select few places have explicitly told me that they will give me an interview even if I go abroad (I know nothing is guaranteed, and I'm taking this with a grain of salt).
Overall, I am extremely conflicted about this whole situation, and my study abroad application deadlines are coming up within a few weeks. I've also heard that recruiting will be so early for 2019 SA positions that most superdays will be over by end of August, meaning it wouldn't conflict with studying abroad. I would really appreciate it if some current juniors/seniors who studied abroad during recruiting shine some light on this topic. Do you also think the situation differs on whether you're at a target school or not? Some insights from current bankers would be much appreciated too. Thank you all for the help!
I did exactly this and studied abroad this past fall. Yeah you're right it really does hinder your recruiting abilities (at least for me from a non-target) but I'd say that going abroad is 100% worth it and would do it again in a heartbeat.
If anything, going abroad is always a great topic to bring up in an interview, especially with younger analysts/associates - shows that you're not a finance robot
Yeah, every analyst/associate I've networked with said that their biggest regret in college is not studying abroad but they also said they're not so sure if they would've ended up in the position they're in now... Could you expand on your experience recruiting while you're abroad? Just in general about phone/skype interview troubles (assuming you didn't have the same phone number as the one listed on resume when abroad, since you probably got a new SIM card at your abroad country), and how you were able to plan out the recruiting process. Did you tell your network about going abroad and were they willing to accomodate you by accelerated interviews, etc. A general timeline would be unbelievably helpful. And of course, hope that you had a positive outcome in terms of SA recruiting!
I studied abroad fall of my junior year so I may be able to help you out. With the time differences, recruiting does get tricky sometimes. There were occasions where myself and others in my cohort had to interview at 12:00 am or later because of this. Not really much you can do to remedy this situation and the inconvenient truth is that you're just going to have to get it done. Other than that though, I found that firms were flexible if you let them know that you were abroad and if you brought it up during the interview they were definitely excited to hear more about it. I did run into some issues with skype but I've run into issues with skype in the states too so I think that's more a function of the platform rather than the location. Good question about the number, I just let my interviewer know that my number had changed as I was abroad and there was never an issue after that. I let my network know over the summer which not only helped in the process moving forward but gave me an excuse to call in the first place. With the way the recruiting time table has been shifted up and given your past experiences, I wouldn't be surprised if you had a SA position locked down before the summer wrapped up....
This was mentioned before, but yes there are times where you'll have to hop on the phone at 3-4am for a networking call since most bankers tend to like to talk after work/winding down and 6pm on the west coast would translate to 3am in Europe. Just something you'll have to get over but it's really not that bad. In terms of phone numbers, I got an international plan with my domestic carrier just for that reason, it's a bit more expensive but you also get coverage in other countries if you do any traveling while you're there. I personally didn't use skype for interviews at all while I was abroad but my virtual superdays were done through google hangout and an app called bluejeans - they were fine, just make sure you have good wifi as that may be a concern for a lot of places.
In terms of timeline, I personally dropped the ball with BBs my first month abroad (August) just due to being immature so watch out for that but contrary to what the consensus is around here, I actually found a few boutiques/MMs who recruit during Feb/Mar and there are reputable firms out there who just finished interviewing and gave virtual superdays to everyone whether abroad or not due to timing with finals.
All in all, if you want to get it done, you definitely can if you do the most imo. Any idea where you want to go?
When does your program start? Me and most of my buddies had our offers locked up by mid-August. With recruiting moving up each year, I don't think this is really a problem anymore? Ton of my friends w offers just finished up their junior falls abroad. Network now so you can get in on the earlier super days would be my recommendation.
lonepine oh wow mid-August? That would be unbelievable if I could do what you did! Do you attend a target school? Also if you don't mind, which firms gave out offers that early? Older friends at my school (non-target, mayyybe semi target) first started getting superdays/offers from BBs this year in the last week of September. How do you advise me to get in on the earlier superdays? I have been networking pretty heavily at certain places (HL, WF, Jefferies, JPM) and have made some good connections. I only named those places to see if you or anyone had specific experiences with those firms.
Unless you can be sure of having interviews lined up early August, I wouldn't waste a recruiting semester to study abroad. You are young, you have a lot of time ahead of you. Yes, studying abroad is an amazing experience - definitely unforgettable and potentially life changing. However, do you really want to risk a career for three months of fun in another country? I would not.
I'm a junior right now and I was in the exact same situation as you last year--top 20 LAC, basically everyone goes abroad junior fall, etc. I went abroad this past semester, and was really surprised at how accommodating banks were when it came to the interview process. In fact, as some people have mentioned above, they thought it was pretty cool, and was a good thing to talk about in interviews. I ended up getting an SA offer at a BB, so I'd say that if you want to go abroad, you should do it, because the advantages of going abroad far outweigh the minimal disadvantages it causes for IB recruiting.
chickenmitts hey thanks for the info. Do you mind giving more details in regards to the timeline of your recruiting? Were you able to accelerate the process and interview in August by telling your network that you will be abroad? Also, if you could give some specific firms that were accomodating and some that were not so accomodating, that would be extremely helpful.
I'm really hoping to study abroad in the fall like you said because literally no one I know will be on campus if I stay... might get really depressing hahah
I highly recommend not studying abroad in the fall. Yes, some banks will accommodate, but a lot will not. My MM for example does not interview people who are abroad unless there are still outstanding spots available after bulk of recruiting is done (know this is true for some other MMs as well.
That said, based on what other people are saying maybe it's not as restrictive as I previously thought.
NuclearPenguins Thank you for your input, as insights from a current banker at a MM is helpful. Would you mind listing some MMs that will not consider candidates who are abroad? This is a bummer for me because I actually attended Piper Jaffray's Career Exploration event over last summer as a freshmen and was really looking forward to applying for the 2019 SA position... Do you also have a general idea of when interviews/superdays will take place for my year? I know the kids older than me at the Career Exploration event had superdays in early September I believe, but not sure how it would work for me since I attended as a freshmen and likely won't get the accelerated process. Also, do you have any tips on how I might possibly be able to get an accelerated process at MMs?
Recruiting has been pushed back so early now. If you have a great resume and are very proactive you could possibly secure something before abroad.
Junior Fall Study Abroad Action Plan (Originally Posted: 02/20/2014)
I'm a current sophomore planning to study abroad my junior year of college - it's an experience that I don't want to miss out on. However, this means that I will miss out on many of the OCR/Networking events during recruiting season. What is sort of an action plan can I follow from now until I go abroad in August to make the most of recruiting season in NYC while I am abroad? I will be back around early December in time for interviews but what can I do right now to ensure that I can get those interviews and level the playing field.
I have a low/mediocre GPA 3.5/3.6 and & good experience (2-3 finance internships + hopefully another one this summer) at a strong target school so networking is imperative for me. I plan to recruit for Investment Banking and Investment Management roles.
banks of accelerated processes for this someone on this forum must know more about them (not me)
banks have an accelerated process*
Isn't the accelerated process for those wanting to study abroad their junior spring?
Yeah it is.
At my school a decent number of banks came back in the first few weeks of the spring semester to hold another networking/info session right before resume drops. And in my opinion those events are rather worthless from a networking point of view. Each professional is going to have a swarm of undergrads around them bombarding them with questions so I think that the only impression one can easily make in that situation is a bad one. It would be tough to stand out in a positive manner. All the networking thats helped me so far had been done on my own through cold emails to alums or through past relationships and that experience is pretty common among my friends. I don't know of anyone really who developed a good relationship through just going to those info sessions. So basically you're not really at any disadvantage from being abroad, I know that I wasn't.
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