Mitigating a Low GPA

I graduated from NYU Stern's undergraduate school a couple years ago and I'm hoping to apply to business school in the next 1-2 years. I've been working as a Consultant at IBM within the Strategy & Analytics division and I'm on track to promote to the Senior Consultant level this year.

My biggest concern is that I had a poor academic record in undegrad. I graduated with a 3.1 GPA and although I took some rigorous courses there are several C's on my transcripts. This can be ascribed to a combination of taking on too many courses some semesters, trying to juggle too many extracurriculars, and a lack of discipline and time management earlier in my college career.

I was able to score a 750 on my GMAT, but I know that if I want to get into a Tier-1 business school it will be an uphill battle.

Does anyone have any stories of getting into a top program with a low GPA?

Is it advised to take additional college courses post-grad in the areas that are weak in my transcript?

Any advice is appreciated.

 

I'm concurrently working and attending a part time/Executive MBA program at a top B school. My undergraduate degree was a 3.1 in the Biological Sciences (no prior finance experience).

I'm sure you're aiming for a full-time program, but I can give you some insight about part-time options.

I personally think it's easier to get into a part-time program with a low GPA than it is for a full-time program, so explore those options if that's something that you're open to. I think the most essential thing for having a "low" GPA is to position your story right. It's all about how you communicate to the admissions board that, yes you messed up earlier, but you've grown from it and learned a ton of lessons (it's essentially you selling yourself). Have substantial reasons why you messed up- not "I was a shithead and messed around", but more along the lines of "I had a death of a loved one that greatly affected me". I think if you attribute the low GPA to something out of your control, admissions people will tend to be more forgiving.

For me, my low GPA was attributed primarily to me facing homelessness/not being able to afford my tuition and almost losing my house. I hate making excuses for my actions, but I thought admissions should know why my grades were affected. However, I did also highlight things about me that I thought would frame me in a good light: first generation college graduate, first generation American, the first in my family to pursue an MBA, and breaking into PE without any prior finance experience. It's all about how you frame your story.

Array
 

Usually, the actions you can take are relatively standardized

  1. Alternate Transcript from top extension school
  2. Optional Essay to explain low GPA
  3. Good GMAT
  4. Strong WE and good ECs
  5. Well thought out and complete application

A 3.1 is only really going to limit you at H/S other than that its not that terrible, especially with a good GMAT. If you have time though and have already taken the GMAT it might make sense to build out a little bit of an alternative transcript, especially retaking the classes you got CS in.

 

I graduated with a 2.6 GPA (a credit average at the time), but I studied two degrees concurrently ((each being a year long and one being a scholarship; both at top global companies), worked full time in back-back internships during the course of my undergrad (which is why my GPA was much lower), my commute to university was 2-3 hours each way (my parents are farmers) [again the commute being another excuse]; I participated in start-ups (on top of my work at Uni) and have a heap of extra-curriculars (both during my undergrad and now); I was conferred into a selective program at one of the Big4 accounting firms early in my career where only 1 person is chosen each year; I can get strong references and am currently a 25 y.o Manager in a M&A consulting.

Given i'm doing the hard yards now to hit my GMAT target, and assuming all goes to plan in terms of scoring GMAT, then quite frankly I don't think an MBA is for me if they're going to call me up on my GPA.

 

I have a 3.0 from a semi target (hard major / minor combination) and here's the advice I've gotten from consultants / alumnus / etc.

1.) College or grad level class at extension school. Doesn't need to be the best one ever, just make sure it's accredited. I'm planning to take 2 classes during the summer, one is a retake of a class I got a C in in college and the other is a "financial markets" class. Get an A. This shows 1.) you can handle the workload and 2.) you understand your GPA is a risk and you want to mitigate it. 3.) you want this. school is important to you. 1.) Crush the GMAT, especially quant (I got a 750, 50Q raw score). This shows you're smart enough. 3.) Write the optional essay, explain especially extenuating circumstances. This shows you "get it". For me, I had some family financial issues plus I worked all through college

Succeeding at a job is not the same as succeeding at school. Succeeding at a standardized test is not the same as succeeding at school. Taking a class or showing that you value and can succeed in classroom-style learning is what you need to prove.

 

Bachelor of Business Administration, Major in Finance • GPA: 3.20 / 4.00; Quantitative Business GPA: 3.56 / 4.00

Any other suggestions for wording? "Quantitative GPA" .. "Quantitative Business Classes GPA" ???

Hoosier Nation
 

I mean, honestly, what choice do you have? Either stick with the 3.2 and ride it out or do what you said in the first comment. It really isn't going to matter either way after you get the interview and its not like its going to be save you or sink you one way or the other.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 

You sound like a Frat Daddy, so I would just put:

Frat GPA: 4.0 / 4.0

Basically lets them know you don't lose at drinking games and bang all the chicks.

My name is Nicky, but you can call me Dre.
 
aempirei:
You sound like a Frat Daddy, so I would just put:

Frat GPA: 4.0 / 4.0

Basically lets them know you don't lose at drinking games and bang all the chicks.

Hahahaha this is great.

But I can't tell if your being sarcastic or not..? So i'ma just go ahead and take this as a compliment

Hoosier Nation
 

Why is it so low? If you were drinking like an asshole, then you're just going to have to man up and learn to talk bullshit really well. If you had family problems, etc... then: * condense your story into a SHORT, GOOD pitch on how you overcame hardship * and while your grades suffered, you built character / had interesting experiences * blah blah blah * and then change the subject onto * your awesome internships and obsessive workaholism * and how good your interview's tie looks * and what you bring to the table and * blah blah blah

Worst case scenario, you end up in MO and you network over to FO in a year or two, but if you can talk around the retards who think that one number sums you up (aka GPA) then you're golden.

Get busy living
 

I know how to talk my way around it and have every time in phone calls and interviews - that's not what I'm worried about. I just need a way to get pass the HR gatekeepers scanning through the resume books who won't be able to get an earful of my eloquent bullshiting

"Most importantly we got spin control. That's where I come in. I get paid to talk. I don't have an MD or law degree. I have a baccalaureate in kicking ass and taking names. You know that guy who can pick up any girl, I'm him on crack." - Thank You For Smoking

Hoosier Nation
 

You mention that your GPA is low but your leadership experience is very impressive. One way that I would "spin" it would be:

1) You are going to need to network your way into first round interviews...I had a low GPA as well and had to do this for almost every interview I got. If you want some advice on that PM me and I'll take time to give you all the tactics I used.

2) When asked in an interview about your low GPA, I would say that while you realize your GPA could be seen as on the lower end, you disagree and are proud of your achievement given the fact that you were extremely involved on campus and juggled a job, internship, or other activities at the same time (you could mention here about your quantitative classes if you want)

3) OR you could mention how you began at college not really having a strong foundation on work ethic and you maybe didn't put as much effort as you should have your freshman/beginning of sophomore year but that after you matured, got involved, and got your focus...you began to really achieve....basically that your GPA has improved overtime (if thats actually what happened) You never want to lie

I don't think you should put the two different GPA's on your resume, it will look bad. You have a low GPA, own it and you will have a better chance of showing how your GPA doesn't reflect your abilities

XX
 
Pike:
3) OR you could mention how you began at college not really having a strong foundation on work ethic and you maybe didn't put as much effort as you should have your freshman/beginning of sophomore year but that after you matured, got involved, and got your focus...you began to really achieve....basically that your GPA has improved overtime (if thats actually what happened) You never want to lie

I don't think you should put the two different GPA's on your resume, it will look bad. You have a low GPA, own it and you will have a better chance of showing how your GPA doesn't reflect your abilities

This is the route I have been taking. Owning up to my low GPA based on adjusting to lecture style classes and having a little too much fun freshman year. Everyone I talked to understood. Like I told them "I learned a valuable life lesson albeit the hard way and it's something I'm going to have to live with but I've learned from my mistake blah blah"

I'm just worried that after these informational interviews got me into the resume book (or hopefully some more first-rounds) that the HR will just see the 3.2 and ding me. Because a few of them mentioned they'll forward my resume along and pull for me but that I should try and spin the resume so I can get a bite.

Hoosier Nation
 
Silverman_Sachs:
Tell them that a gdi has no place on wall st so they should hire you.

Lol this

On a serious note, I'd recommend that you continue to hone your story about how you had a hard time adjusting to college at first but that you have gotten everything under control and taken on some leadership positions as well.

Impossible is nothing
 
Cries:
Adjusted Pro Forma GPA: 4.0

Done.

You'd have my vote to get the job if I saw that on your resume

Ever since reading the part in Monkey Business about how banks find a way to make themselves first in the league table for whatever industry they are pitching I've always wanted to put something like this on my resume:

GPA: 4.0/4.0*

*In courses with between 18 and 28 students, excluding those held on Tuesdays and Thursdays or administered by the Science or History Departments

 

No.

You'd be putting your community college classes in with your other college classes and that's equating apples with oranges. Even worse, if you do manage to get a job and they request a transcript, they'll see the discrepancy and you'll have some explaining to do. No one likes being lied to. Be as up front and transparent as possible. If you decide to take some extra classes, great, bring it up in an interview to show that performing poorly is behind you. Other than that, network.

As for the CFA, I'd resort to that only if networking doesn't pan out. The time it takes to prepare (successfully) for the CFA is something around 300 hrs (average). Think how much networking you could do in 300 hrs instead...and I think you'll see a better return if you spend that time networking.

 
KKS:
I cannot remember the guy's username (I think it was "military guy" or something like that), but he graduated with a low UG GPA, but completed a few courses in NYU's continuing education program so that he could list another GPA on his resume in addition to his UG one. You would have to do a forum search to find this.

Thanks, needless to say I had a lot of trouble in during undergrad because I kept switching majors. Doing my undergrad degree over has been a legit option for me, but I'm not sure yet.

 

contract/staffing firms to get experience/names under your belt

sub 3.0 is still doable in all fields with the right work put in.

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."
 
yeahright:
contract/staffing firms to get experience/names under your belt

sub 3.0 is still doable in all fields with the right work put in.

Thanks for the encouragement man, I'm honestly not even looking to go FO IBD or big time consulting at this point in my life (I honestly don't deserve it) just looking for some sort of foot in the door at equity research or asset management. I'm going to work my ass off and network, pass the CFA lvl 1, see where that takes me.

(contract/staffing firms to get experience/names under your belt) would you mind elaborating?

 

Out of curiosity what is your GPA actually? What you need to do is put together a template email that expresses your interest in the firm and ask the MD or whomever for coffee and get more insight. Once you've made the connection, that's when you tell them you'd be interested in applying for a position at their firm. When people know you, they're inclined to care less about your grades (as long as they aren't atrocious)

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there" - Will Rogers
 
callmecrazy:
I'm currently a 3rd year at a large public state school in the northeast. Like a lot of people in my situation, I chose to pursue a major in the sciences intending on going to medical school and found out that it was simply not what I wanted to do with my life. After shadowing a trader, taking some stats courses and reading the Intelligent Investor, I quickly realized that this is what I wanted to do with my life and pursue finance ( I realize this is extremely broad). My GPA is abysmal ( a 2.4) as a result of taking science classes that I simply had no interest in and no business taking. I have taken some statistics classes and basic econ classes and have done well in them ( All A's) but the grades of the majority of the classes I have taken ( science classes) still stand to be completely unacceptable. At this point, I've come to the point that I have to two options when it comes to my education, I can either graduate with a Biology degree or I can take a few more classes and graduate with a Economics degree instead. If I do this, I should have a MAJOR GPA that's (3.6 +). The reason why I'm thinking about this route is because I can list my MAJOR GPA exclusively when I apply for jobs ( I know the idea is laughable but hey, I'm trying ) I am completely at a loss as of what to do because I know I'm going to be facing an extremely uphill battle to find any kind of job in the finance sector. I really would an appreciate any advice on how I can break into this industry from anyone who's been in a similar situation. If it helps, I live in the greater New York City area and am willing to absolutely any opportunity even if it's unpaid. Again, I realize my situation and know how much of a battle I'm facing but I am where I am.

Your GPA is too low to get you into any decent interview. So you're going to have to work your way up in PWM, Sales, prop trading, or do a stint in the Peace Corps, Teaching, or Military, then circle back around and ace the GMAT, then get an MBA and finally you will have a few more options and some real interviews.

I think relying on your Major GPA to pave the entire way to an offer is setting yourself up for some roadblocks. Many places specifically request cumulative GPA.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 

I don't think that's a "rule". I have a 3.5 from a non-target school, and got all my interviews through networking. GPA doesn't matter in the end.

 

That's funny. One of my teachers had a field day pissing all over my GPA yesterday and so I am trying to reassess my situation. But I do appreciate all of the repsonses.

 

No, I came on here because I had a question and forums are places to discuss questions. This being a forum about ibanking, I figured it was a relevant place to pose my question rather than a place for people who add nothing to a discussion to validate themselves by making stupid and pointless remarks.

 
jbauer:
No, I came on here because I had a question and forums are places to discuss questions. This being a forum about ibanking, I figured it was a relevant place to pose my question rather than a place for people who add nothing to a discussion to validate themselves by making stupid and pointless remarks.

Unfortunately for you, asking a question about your situation is the most stupid and pointless thing to say on this board. If someone replies yeah you should be worried and your gpa situation isn't good enough, is that going to change your opinion of banking or how hard you'll try to get into banking? If no, then it's clearly pointless and you shouldn't pose stupid questions to try to validate yourself.

 

coming from a target non-ivy i would say that while GPA is a big selling point, the resume overall is what is considered as opposed to just the number. At my school, the banks usually set up a book of resumes and then send it around to the alumni who work there to look at. Then if you have connections you may get picked by them, or if you have something that makes you stand out (prior employment, activities, awards) these will be something that draws more attention than your specific GPA granted that you are above a minimum. I would say, this minimum could go as low as 3.4 or maybe 3.3 even at a non-ivy. Thats just what I have seen from other people at my school who got interviews and internships.

 

Mr. White,

I am only responding to you right now because I am taking a small break from studying for my last final and kind of enjoy reading your unconstructive responses. It seems like you are having a difficult time trying to figure out a legitimate reason for me to ask such a question that you consider "stupid", so I will try and explain it to you as simply as possible because it seems like that is the only way your mind can think. Also, I will try to use as few big words as possible.

When I posed my question, I was expecting to get a mixed response from people telling me that I should or should not worry. Obviously, just looking at the responses will not help me because clearly I want to go into ibanking and will try as hard as I can no matter what anybody says. However, what you failed to see was that I was actually looking to see the ratio of good and bad responses so I could then realistically predict the ratio of recruiters that would think the same way. This is where my motivations get tricky Mr. White so stay with me. Using this knowledge, I could then decide whether or not to pursue other fields as well.

You see Mr. White, looking for jobs outside of ibanking takes additional time and so I only want to take that extra time if I feel that getting a Goldman or MS internship is not as sure enough of a thing as it was before I got my last course grade.

By the way, I think you should consider changing your name to Mr. Pink. It would be more suiting for a man who seems to have a massive dick up his ass. I am looking forward to your response.

 

I actually enjoy Mr. White and his "Will it change your mind/opinion posts?" Because the OP's question is useless. He claims he couldn't find another posts relevant to his, but there are hundreds of posts asking whether kid's GPA's are "good enough". The OP's question is dumb. He has a decent GPA and an internship this summer. Plus he's basing what "recruiters will think" on what college students say on this forum. Jbauer, just do a good job this summer and you'll be fine. This forum is a waste of time and space.

 

If you graduated from college 6 years ago your GPA is barely relevant. Leave it off. They'll care a lot more about your experience.

Robert Clayton Dean: What is happening? Brill: I blew up the building. Robert Clayton Dean: Why? Brill: Because you made a phone call.
 

Ok thanks. I won't combine. To be clear though, this was not a question of what GPA to put on my resume. There is no GPA on the resume I submitted. I know have an interview. I am anticipating the question of my undergrad GPA coming up in the interview. If it does, what is the best way to approach a low GPA?

 

My low gpa isn't due to not being able to perform, I had several life changing events in my family that hurt my grades my first two years. Since then my grades have been great. I have also worked full time and passed the 7 before I had taken any finance classes.

 

This summer I am still working in wealth management because I was not able to get a summer internship. I am cold emailing both S&T and IB analysts and planning on taking at least one networking trip to new york.

 
Best Response

1) If you are still in school start looking for internships. I think a lot of people get wrapped up in the summer internship cycle. Realize that if you go to school near a city you can probably find a PWM shop, Boutique IB, Money Management shop, whatever. Send out emails, call up, work for free. Great way to get 3/4/5 months of solid internship experience.

2) Try and raise your GPA, but if not possible just look for other things to do. Try and find a place to sponsor you for your series 7/63. Once you get your series 7 you can self sponsor and get your series 3. Get experience on Bloomberg, CapIQ, Factset. Go find a copy of @Risk or Crystal ball and get some experience with them.

3) Network like an animal. Email whoever, call people, whatever you have to do. It really isnt that hard, most people appreciate what I like to call professional aggression. Finance is about winning, being aggressive, going after what you want. Just do it.

4) Get into something similar to what you want to ultimately want to do. You want to do S&T, but can't get into it then do PWM or PCS. You will get licensed, get sales experience, etc. Get into a credit program at a commercial bank. Pay is solid, gives you great lending experience and with some outside modeling knowledge you could get into DCM at a medium shop. If you want to do ER, but can't break in, find out a specific industry you want to research and get a job in that field.

 
AnthonyD1982:
1) If you are still in school start looking for internships. I think a lot of people get wrapped up in the summer internship cycle. Realize that if you go to school near a city you can probably find a PWM shop, Boutique IB, Money Management shop, whatever. Send out emails, call up, work for free. Great way to get 3/4/5 months of solid internship experience.

2) Try and raise your GPA, but if not possible just look for other things to do. Try and find a place to sponsor you for your series 7/63. Once you get your series 7 you can self sponsor and get your series 3. Get experience on Bloomberg, CapIQ, Factset. Go find a copy of @Risk or Crystal ball and get some experience with them.

3) Network like an animal. Email whoever, call people, whatever you have to do. It really isnt that hard, most people appreciate what I like to call professional aggression. Finance is about winning, being aggressive, going after what you want. Just do it.

4) Get into something similar to what you want to ultimately want to do. You want to do S&T, but can't get into it then do PWM or PCS. You will get licensed, get sales experience, etc. Get into a credit program at a commercial bank. Pay is solid, gives you great lending experience and with some outside modeling knowledge you could get into DCM at a medium shop. If you want to do ER, but can't break in, find out a specific industry you want to research and get a job in that field.

:thumbs up: very helpful

 

you still have a lot of time to get your gpa up (1-1.5 years). If it's a really good target (williams/amherst), you can definitely try to get an internship this summer through cold calling locally if you live in a metropolitan area. Otherwise, just start networking next year and learn some finance on your own this summer. By the time junior year recruiting comes, you will be in good shape.

 

I don't have many answers but one piece of advice I have seen work before is this: Work very hard now to get the best possible GPA in your 3rd (and 4th?) year.

I say this because even if your overall GPA is so/so, but you can demonstrate you had a significant step up in your last year or two (and a very good annual GPA in those years) I don't think it will work against you. If anything it will show that you can achieve greatness when you set yourself to it, and your first year or two of school you were immature but you've grown.

 

Ok guys, so I've read some useful guides on networking using the search button and, as soon as my exam session is over, I'm going to start cold emailing/calling alumni who are currently working for boutiques in my city in order to have a talk. The problem is that I think that as soon as they hear my GPA they'll immediately step back.

 
Limon8:
The problem is that I think that as soon as they hear my GPA they'll immediately step back.

you don't know that. it seems like a lot of low gpa people on here say dumb shit. it is a hindrance but a sub 3.4gpa isn't tantamount to having ebola.

 

Chances of getting into an SA program as a sophomore are more than slim even for the people with 3.9+'s and the vast of majority of BB SA programs open to sophomores are diversity programs.

Internships at boutiques (not talking Lazard, Evercore, etc...) are going to be pretty much relationship/networking-driven , so like you said just search around on the internet, email your resume with a short note detailing your interest, network with people, etc... I did the same thing soph. summer. Best of luck.

 

To answer your question, yes, a 3.7+ would offset your GPA now. Your GPA sophomore year doesn't matter at all; your GPA when you apply does.

If your application is pretty strong with the exception of your GPA, you can try applying anyway. Otherwise, it sounds like you've already come up with some pretty good alternatives.

 

If your resume is strong, then firms may be more forgiving. Not sure what you mean by offsetting. They don't look at your GPA's historical trends, just at the final number that you put on your resume. With that said...

3.6 - Your GPA doesn't hurt. >3.8 - Your GPA helps.

 
CallOptionsTrader:

My main pitch would be the independent trading that I have done for the past 5 years solely off personal funds. My experience in this area is from Long, Options, E-Futures, and my yearly returns range from 18-27%.

Any advice/ criticism would be appreciated.

I suggest you look further into what investment banking actually is...

 

18-27% returns over the past five years- does that even beat the S&P 500?

That said, if you're really a good trader, prove us wrong. Keep earning 20% a year and when you open your own prop shop, come back here and shove it in all of our faces.

Based on your background, it sounds like you really want to do asset management rather than banking. This often requires an MBA or a quantitative graduate degree.

If you can't get an offer from a prop shop or bank, go work at the startup and apply to MBA business schools">M7 three years later. Assuming you have at least a 3.0 GPA upon graduation, you stand a good chance of getting taken somewhere.

 

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its one way or the other: hate me or admire.
 

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notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

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From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”