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Take a Knee: Trump, the NFL, and the First Amendment

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Comments (265)

Best Response
Sep 25, 2017

This issue is important because of the viral nature of this social cancer.

These clowns who get paid to throw a ball around, who've had special treatment by the police their whole life, are now openly disrespecting this country over fake police brutality.

They have a right to do it and they also have to deal with the consequences.

I for one am not watching grown children play a game after this shit. Would love to see them try and function in society if we didn't pay them so much to run around.

BTW - I'm pretty sure the majority of America thinks these babies are in the wrong. Funny how Godell is acting all righteous when his ass was on thin ice a year ago. Must be a tough job apologizing for a league full of rapists, murderers and general criminals.

Re Hernandez, Lewis, Burress.

Re Jameis Wilson, De'Andre Johnson.

Sep 25, 2017

You think these largely poor, mostly black, pro athletes have had special treatment from police THEIR WHOLE LIFE? Sigh. Expecting any understanding, sympathy, or reason from you is asking too much. Good job labeling Winston a rapist when the woman was found to be lying, consistently. It fits your narrative and your perspective in life.

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Sep 25, 2017

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kirby-dick/how-flori...
Yeah, fuck off. Two women were raped and you make excused?? Disgusting.

Literally cannot believe you blame the woman for this sexual predator. Horrible.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/26/sports/football...
https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/wn33gm/the-j...
http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/11...
"FSU officials and the Tallahassee Police Department did little to investigate the credibility of the allegations. "

TALLAHASSEE POLICE DEPARTMENT DID LITTLE TO INVESTIGATE

Keep defending this criminal.

Sep 25, 2017

None of those links contained any definitive evidence he is a rapist. You are making an assumption to fit your narrative, like I said. The facts are that there is a larger issue with how colleges handle campus rape cases and he got caught up in it. There is also ample evidence the woman was lying. All in all, the result is an inconclusive case yet you've labeled him a rapist for your narrative.

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Sep 26, 2017

Leaving politics completely out of my comment here:

It is estimated that 1 in 5 women will be sexually assaulted in her lifetime. Studies done by WHO have shown that the vast majority of reported rapes are factual; however, only ~14% are reported to authorities due, in part, to victim-shaming and fear that they will not be taken seriously.

Tread carefully here before you start perpetuating a stereotype. I have a feeling this would be a completely different narrative if this was brought up in a different context.

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Sep 25, 2017

I have no dog in this fight, I am just not ready to label someone a rapist without any conclusive evidence for political purposes. I would be curious to see how those numbers change with prominent public figures and if that 1 in 5 is worldwide versus in the United States, also curious to see what they are defining as sexual assault here as that has a wide definition. Grabbing a woman's breasts without invitation counts as sexual assault. While of course that is fucked up as well, we are talking specifically about rape here.

p.s. It's unfortunate that we are even having this conversation in the context of the anthem protests as TNA brought this up just to troll and distract from the real conversation.

Sep 25, 2017

Athletes taking a knee to protest police violence and bias towards black people.

Athletes getting preferred treatment by police.

Hypocrisy and relevant. And I'll never listen to a rapist trying to take a stand.

Bunch of imbeciles throwing a ball around. The fact anyone cares about anything they do besides running and jumping is absurd.

Sep 25, 2017

You've made your position clear. Assuming Winston is a rapist, what does that have to do with the thousands of other players in the league? I don't even think Winston has led or come out with a statement related to the protest. You brought him up to distract and troll, it's fine though.

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Sep 26, 2017

~1 in 5 women in the United States has been raped per the CDC. I was not referring to groping or anything you seem to think of as a softer crime and these are numbers in the United States.

https://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/SV-Data...
No, we shouldn't have to have this conversation but as someone who has volunteered with a women's shelter I am going to use your insinuation that she was probably lying as a chance to educate you about the realities of the crimes and people who come forward.

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Sep 25, 2017

Thanks for the numbers, would've helped in your initial post. I'm not insinuating anything, there is evidence she was lying and I stated that, plain and simple. Like I said, the facts are not definitive either way so I don't make assumptions either way. While I respect your statistics, the implication you are trying to make is accusation = guilt because most of the time it does. This is simply unfair to those falsely accused, no matter how small a percentage that is. Sorry to drag you into a political conversation, rape is a serious issue and should be handled as such not bandied about as some troll garbage to distract from a thread.

p.s. I would hope you also "seem to think" groping is a "softer crime" than rape...

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Sep 25, 2017

Laughing my ass off.

Fake police brutality? Come on man.

He "rescinded" Steph Curry's invitation to the White House, he called all players who don't stand for the national anthem, "sons of bitches", and he's calling for harder hits in the NFL because, "that's what people want to see".

I'm done with this experiment. The guy doesn't have an ounce of diplomacy and throw being "presidential" out with the bath water.

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Sep 25, 2017

Police brutality is blown out of propitiation in most cases. The hood rats just don't know how to put their hands behind their back. Even if they're being wrongfully arrested, don't resist you fcking morons.

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Sep 25, 2017

This experiment is over. Impeach the peach!

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Sep 25, 2017

These players acting like nobody has ever said something about their mom, grandmother, sister, daughter, wife or whatever on the football field and their feelings are hurt. You show me a professional football player and I will show you somebody that has said something bad about another player's mom.

Sep 25, 2017

You're a dumbfuck

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Sep 25, 2017

LOL that's probably something the players say too. Can I protest you now?

Sep 25, 2017

Preach my dog

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Sep 25, 2017
TNA:

BTW - I'm pretty sure the majority of America thinks these babies are in the wrong. Funny how Godell is acting all righteous when his ass was on thin ice a year ago. Must be a tough job apologizing for a league full of rapists, murderers and general criminals.

I agree, but even if this wasn't true--that a majority of the country opposes national anthem protests--enough people find it appalling that they will tune out and it will likely hit the NFL in the pocketbook.

Most of my friends who support the NFL protests are pussy liberals who don't follow sports anyway.

Sep 25, 2017

What is funny is they choose to disrespect the entire country because of a supposedly few bad cops.

Remember when the NFL was stroking Pat Tillman hard? Now these guys are pissing on the anthem. Disgusting.

I love it though. It energizes those on the right , unifies the right and slowly removes any dilution that those on the left can be reasoned with. This will infect all sports (except a hockey), and will not stop. Just like tearing down American History won't stop at confederate statues.

Slippery slope is a truth, not a fallacy.

Sep 25, 2017
TNA:

What is funny is they choose to disrespect the entire country because of a supposedly few bad cops.

Remember when the NFL was stroking Pat Tillman hard? Now these guys are pissing on the anthem. Disgusting.

I love it though. It energizes those on the right , unifies the right and slowly removes any dilution that those on the left can be reasoned with. This will infect all sports (except a hockey), and will not stop. Just like tearing down American History won't stop at confederate statues.

Slippery slope is a truth, not a fallacy.

You have a very skewed mind.
Pissing on the anthem? The anthem STANDS for freedom, including one's freedom to kneel whenever the fuck one wants. YOU are pissing on everything the US stands for when you say such a thing. You are a traitor of our great nation.

You know which nations do/didn't have these freedoms? Nazi Germany. Russia. North Korea. Iran. Great band of characters.....if you want to live somewhere everyone loves the supreme leader (your Trump), feel free to move to Iran and worship the Supreme Ayatollah or North Korea and suck kim jung dumbfuck's miniscule micropenis you Russian commie scumfuck.

"Just like tearing down American History won't stop at confederate statues."
What are you even talking about? Aren't you the one who doesn't appreciate participation trophies? Take down statues of losers. Take down statues of oppressors.

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Sep 25, 2017

Jesus you are dense.

They are exercising their freedom, which the constitution provides. But they are also disrespecting the country by sitting through the anthem. Both can be true.

You also don't know your US history.

No more response needed. Read a book.

Sep 25, 2017
TNA:

Jesus you are dense.

They are exercising their freedom, which the constitution provides. But they are also disrespecting the country by sitting through the anthem. Both can be true.

You also don't know your US history.

No more response needed. Read a book.

I am convinced TNA is one of the Russian operatives that contributed to this operation: http://thehill.com/policy/technology/352331-report...
US History Fact: Columbus was an oppressor and colonist, claiming lands for himself that belonged to others.

What book(s) would you recommend? https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://t0.gst... ?
Or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf ?

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Sep 25, 2017

what is this illiterate shit?

Which historic figure wasn't an oppressor? Read a book.

Sep 25, 2017
TNA:

what is this illiterate shit?

Which historic figure wasn't an oppressor? Read a book.

Is the illiteracy coming from your end? Most definitely not mine.

Martin Luther King Jr wasn't an oppressor. Abraham Lincoln wasn't an oppressor. Albert Einstein wasn't an oppressor. Gandhi wasn't an oppressor. FDR wasn't an oppressor.

Maybe you read about Attila the Hun, Genghis Khan, Stalin, Putin, Gaddafi, Napoleon, and Kim jung un way too much. Maybe you are confused which country we are in.....US or Russia.

Ever heard of the golden rule?

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Sep 25, 2017

Roosevelt put Japanese US citizens in internment camps. Lincoln killed fellow Americans to keep the union intact.

Sep 25, 2017
YungMonc:
TNA:

what is this illiterate shit?

Which historic figure wasn't an oppressor? Read a book.

Is the illiteracy coming from your end? Most definitely not mine.

Martin Luther King Jr wasn't an oppressor. Abraham Lincoln wasn't an oppressor. Albert Einstein wasn't an oppressor. Gandhi wasn't an oppressor. FDR wasn't an oppressor.

Maybe you read about Attila the Hun, Genghis Khan, Stalin, Putin, Gaddafi, Napoleon, and Kim jung un way too much. Maybe you are confused which country we are in.....US or Russia.

Ever heard of the golden rule?

Lincoln wanted to ship all African American's to Africa after the civil war.

"There is a natural disgust in the minds of nearly all white people to the idea of indiscriminate amalgamation of the white and black races ... A separation of the races is the only perfect preventive of amalgamation, but as an immediate separation is impossible, the next best thing is to keep them apart where they are not already together. If white and black people never get together in Kansas, they will never mix blood in Kansas ..."

"In the language of Mr. Jefferson, uttered many years ago, "It is still in our power to direct the process of emancipation, and deportation, peaceably, and in such slow degrees, as that the evil will wear off insensibly; and in their places be, pari passu [on an equal basis], filled up by free white laborers."

Quotes from Lincoln.

You sir don't know shit about history. So sick of clueless, vitriolic libs saturating every discussion with falsehoods.

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Sep 25, 2017

Bingo.

Sep 28, 2017

Yeah man I'm sorry this is just wildly inaccurate. He's right on the internment camps below... the 'benevolent' US regime in WWII is also the only instance in history where atomic bombs were used in war.... Pretty sure it doesn't get more oppressive than wiping out two entire cities of people... As for Lincoln, he wasn't oppressive, but he was using the emancipation proclamation as a form of manipulation... From the NY Tribune, 1862: "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union ... [P] I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men everywhere could be free." Government is by definition oppressive. It's comprised of people that are chosen to rule over others. Usually doesn't end well for the ruled after a long enough time horizon...

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Sep 25, 2017

Standing during the anthem is out of respect for those who died protecting our liberties.

Your comparison to Nazi Germany/North Korea/Iran isn't worthy of a response. You then descend into childish name calling. Can we get some moderator in here to remove this type of trash?

Was Christopher Columbus a loser? Because they're trying to take those down too.

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Sep 25, 2017

Native Americans were pacifists. Oh wait, they had slaves, they killed women and children, they sided against colonists, they were violent AF.

Sad people have so little love for history.

Sep 25, 2017
m8:

Standing during the anthem is out of respect for those who died protecting our liberties.

Your comparison to Nazi Germany/North Korea/Iran isn't worthy of a response. You then descend into childish name calling. Can we get some moderator in here to remove this type of trash?

Was Christopher Columbus a loser? Because they're trying to take those down too.

Ironic. Here you are, wanting to take peoples' liberties away and supporting a police state. How American! Congrats to you

Nazi Germany / North Korea / Iran / Russia / now Turkey are autocratic regimes where one cannot kneel during the anthem for fear of death. Just like Trump wants to have it here in the US. Mystifying!

Christopher Columbus was an oppressor and colonist.

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Sep 25, 2017

The fact that this is the 2nd time you've compared the situation to Nazi/North Korea is pretty sickening, and is such a leap of logic for you to be able to insert your "Nazi/authoritarian" buzzwords, that it entirely discredits anything else you have to say. Do you honestly think that when Trump says "kneeling is unpatriotic" is comparable to people in Nazi Germany fearing death?

Or that when NFL fans decide they don't want to watch athletes kneel during the national anthem, its comparable to supporting a police state? The mental gymnastics that you must go through to arrive at such conclusions must be exhausting.

Columbus was a colonist? Yeah, so what.... that's what they did in the 1400s, colonized. What's your problem with colonization? Every single person who came to this country was a colonist, as were those who expanded West. Are you suggesting that everyone should have just stayed in Europe? I'm not really sure what you're supporting? The fact that the left has taken this up as a talking point and a point of emphasis is laughable.

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Sep 25, 2017
TNA:

This issue is important because of the viral nature of this social cancer.

These clowns who get paid to throw a ball around, who've had special treatment by the police their whole life, are now openly disrespecting this country over fake police brutality.

They have a right to do it and they also have to deal with the consequences.

I for one am not watching grown children play a game after this shit. Would love to see them try and function in society if we didn't pay them so much to run around.

BTW - I'm pretty sure the majority of America thinks these babies are in the wrong. Funny how Godell is acting all righteous when his ass was on thin ice a year ago. Must be a tough job apologizing for a league full of rapists, murderers and general criminals.

Re Hernandez, Lewis, Burress.

Re Jameis Wilson, De'Andre Johnson.

1: I agree that hypocrisy is rampant. Although I believe we disagree on the source of hypocrisy.

Kaepernick isn't playing for a team PURELY because of his peaceful protests last year. He is a better QB than other starters. Meanwhile, rapists and murderers are currently playing on NFL teams. Goes to show that NFL owners will hire rapists and murderers but not.....peaceful protesters? And Trump doesn't complain and call these rapists and murderers the REAL "sons of bitches?" Ultimate hypocrisy.

2: "Openly disrespecting his country over fake police brutality"

Is that a joke? Kaepernick plainly said he was kneeling to use his platform as a pro QB to bring attention to institutionalized racism and police brutality in the United States. (Re: police brutality being fake.....Look at any statistics or studies ... https://vittana.org/42-shocking-police-brutality-s... )

It is telling that you think bringing attention to those issues is "disrespecting the country." Are you admitting that this country was founded on those negative ideals? (Namely, slavery, race-based violence and oppression) Are you admitting that it is disrespectful to "your version" of the USA to bring attention to racism and violence?

3: "I'm pretty sure the majority of America thinks these babies are in the wrong" Great generalization, honestly who knows. NOT THAT IT MATTERS. When the US had slavery, don't you think the majority thought that it was OK (otherwise it would have been outlawed sooner)?? The majority of the US does not know that freedom of speech is protected in the 1st amendments to the Bill of Rights. We have inalienable rights, and it doesn't matter if people think they are right or wrong or are clueless.

4: Your bitterness toward gifted athletes is obvious and sad. Your saying, "Would love to see them try and function in society if we didn't pay them so much to run around" displays your obvious racism and misunderstanding of lower income neighborhoods (where young kids think the only way out of the ghetto is through music/hip hop or sports). And if you can't see that, you are a completely lost cause...

5: I agree that coaches can make a set of rules and fire anyone who doesn't follow them. Obviously, one rule can't be "suck my dick or you're fired" but requiring players to stand for the star spangled banner is completely reasonable! However....there is a market for talent! You understand that I am sure!!!

If my CEO required everyone to wear tuxedos everyday and lowered our dinner stipend from $25 to $2 (fully legal)....we would quit and find another bank. Our current bank would go BK. The market right now doesn't require players to stand. And it doesn't look like it will anytime soon.

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Sep 25, 2017
YungMonc:
TNA:

This issue is important because of the viral nature of this social cancer.

These clowns who get paid to throw a ball around, who've had special treatment by the police their whole life, are now openly disrespecting this country over fake police brutality.

They have a right to do it and they also have to deal with the consequences.

I for one am not watching grown children play a game after this shit. Would love to see them try and function in society if we didn't pay them so much to run around.

BTW - I'm pretty sure the majority of America thinks these babies are in the wrong. Funny how Godell is acting all righteous when his ass was on thin ice a year ago. Must be a tough job apologizing for a league full of rapists, murderers and general criminals.

Re Hernandez, Lewis, Burress.

Re Jameis Wilson, De'Andre Johnson.

1: I agree that hypocrisy is rampant. Although I believe we disagree on the source of hypocrisy.

Kaepernick isn't playing for a team PURELY because of his peaceful protests last year. He is a better QB than other starters. Meanwhile, rapists and murderers are currently playing on NFL teams. Goes to show that NFL owners will hire rapists and murderers but not.....peaceful protesters? And Trump doesn't complain and call these rapists and murderers the REAL "sons of bitches?" Ultimate hypocrisy.

2: "Openly disrespecting his country over fake police brutality"

Is that a joke? Kaepernick plainly said he was kneeling to use his platform as a pro QB to bring attention to institutionalized racism and police brutality in the United States. (Re: police brutality being fake.....Look at any statistics or studies ... https://vittana.org/42-shocking-police-brutality-s... )

It is telling that you think bringing attention to those issues is "disrespecting the country." Are you admitting that this country was founded on those negative ideals? (Namely, slavery, race-based violence and oppression) Are you admitting that it is disrespectful to "your version" of the USA to bring attention to racism and violence?

3: "I'm pretty sure the majority of America thinks these babies are in the wrong" Great generalization, honestly who knows. NOT THAT IT MATTERS. When the US had slavery, don't you think the majority thought that it was OK (otherwise it would have been outlawed sooner)?? The majority of the US does not know that freedom of speech is protected in the 1st amendments to the Bill of Rights. We have inalienable rights, and it doesn't matter if people think they are right or wrong or are clueless.

4: Your bitterness toward gifted athletes is obvious and sad. Your saying, "Would love to see them try and function in society if we didn't pay them so much to run around" displays your obvious racism and misunderstanding of lower income neighborhoods (where young kids think the only way out of the ghetto is through music/hip hop or sports). And if you can't see that, you are a completely lost cause...

5: I agree that coaches can make a set of rules and fire anyone who doesn't follow them. Obviously, one rule can't be "suck my dick or you're fired" but requiring players to stand for the star spangled banner is completely reasonable! However....there is a market for talent! You understand that I am sure!!!

If my CEO required everyone to wear tuxedos everyday and lowered our dinner stipend from $25 to $2 (fully legal)....we would quit and find another bank. Our current bank would go BK. The market right now doesn't require players to stand. And it doesn't look like it will anytime soon.

  1. Kaepernick isn't playing because people detest his unpatriotic, arrogant and misinformed ass. He has a right to kneel during football games (notice how no one stopped him) and viewers have a right to change the channel. Welcome to freedom shit head. Freedom doesn't mean freedom from consequences. If I act like a piece of shit at work I would likely get fired as well, and it would have nothing to do with my race.
  2. There is no institutionalized racism in the U.S. African Americans are granted institutionalized privilege, actually. They literally get jobs and go to the best schools specifically because of their race. Institutionalized racism is Jim Crow, Apartheid, etc. Also, careful with bullshit statistics. Correlation is not causation and I could, if I wanted to, spam this post with links that statistically dispute your assertion.

That said, there is racism in the country, the same way that there's racism in every country. You're just not aware of it because you're an ignorant American. They used to throw bananas at Thierry Henry. Could you imagine the outcry if that happened here in the states?

  1. You clearly don't understand the first amendment or the bill of rights. This has nothing to do with either of them..

The rest of your post is just incoherent rambling, moralizing and virtue signaling, void of any actual argument or reason. Saying that a majority of pro athletes wouldn't be rich if it wasn't for pro sports isn't racist. It's blatantly fucking obvious. They have minimal education, many of them have substance abuse issues, the list goes on...

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Sep 25, 2017
Esuric:
YungMonc:
TNA:

This issue is important because of the viral nature of this social cancer.

These clowns who get paid to throw a ball around, who've had special treatment by the police their whole life, are now openly disrespecting this country over fake police brutality.

They have a right to do it and they also have to deal with the consequences.

I for one am not watching grown children play a game after this shit. Would love to see them try and function in society if we didn't pay them so much to run around.

BTW - I'm pretty sure the majority of America thinks these babies are in the wrong. Funny how Godell is acting all righteous when his ass was on thin ice a year ago. Must be a tough job apologizing for a league full of rapists, murderers and general criminals.

Re Hernandez, Lewis, Burress.

Re Jameis Wilson, De'Andre Johnson.

1: I agree that hypocrisy is rampant. Although I believe we disagree on the source of hypocrisy.

Kaepernick isn't playing for a team PURELY because of his peaceful protests last year. He is a better QB than other starters. Meanwhile, rapists and murderers are currently playing on NFL teams. Goes to show that NFL owners will hire rapists and murderers but not.....peaceful protesters? And Trump doesn't complain and call these rapists and murderers the REAL "sons of bitches?" Ultimate hypocrisy.

2: "Openly disrespecting his country over fake police brutality"

Is that a joke? Kaepernick plainly said he was kneeling to use his platform as a pro QB to bring attention to institutionalized racism and police brutality in the United States. (Re: police brutality being fake.....Look at any statistics or studies ... https://vittana.org/42-shocking-police-brutality-s... )

It is telling that you think bringing attention to those issues is "disrespecting the country." Are you admitting that this country was founded on those negative ideals? (Namely, slavery, race-based violence and oppression) Are you admitting that it is disrespectful to "your version" of the USA to bring attention to racism and violence?

3: "I'm pretty sure the majority of America thinks these babies are in the wrong" Great generalization, honestly who knows. NOT THAT IT MATTERS. When the US had slavery, don't you think the majority thought that it was OK (otherwise it would have been outlawed sooner)?? The majority of the US does not know that freedom of speech is protected in the 1st amendments to the Bill of Rights. We have inalienable rights, and it doesn't matter if people think they are right or wrong or are clueless.

4: Your bitterness toward gifted athletes is obvious and sad. Your saying, "Would love to see them try and function in society if we didn't pay them so much to run around" displays your obvious racism and misunderstanding of lower income neighborhoods (where young kids think the only way out of the ghetto is through music/hip hop or sports). And if you can't see that, you are a completely lost cause...

5: I agree that coaches can make a set of rules and fire anyone who doesn't follow them. Obviously, one rule can't be "suck my dick or you're fired" but requiring players to stand for the star spangled banner is completely reasonable! However....there is a market for talent! You understand that I am sure!!!

If my CEO required everyone to wear tuxedos everyday and lowered our dinner stipend from $25 to $2 (fully legal)....we would quit and find another bank. Our current bank would go BK. The market right now doesn't require players to stand. And it doesn't look like it will anytime soon.

    - Kaepernick isn't playing because people detest his unpatriotic, arrogant and misinformed ass. He has a right to kneel during football games (notice how no one stopped him) and viewers have a right to change the channel. Welcome to freedom shit head. Freedom doesn't mean freedom from consequences. If I act like a piece of shit at work I would likely get fired as well, and it would have nothing to do with my race.
    - There is no institutionalized racism in the U.S. African Americans are granted institutionalized privilege, actually. They literally get jobs and go to the best schools specifically because of their race. Institutionalized racism is Jim Crow, Apartheid, etc. Also, careful with bullshit statistics. Correlation is not causation and I could, if I wanted to, spam this post with links that statistically dispute your assertion.

That said, there is racism in the country, the same way that there's racism in every country. You're just not aware of it because you're an ignorant American. They used to throw bananas at Thierry Henry. Could you imagine the outcry if that happened here in the states?

    - You clearly don't understand the first amendment or the bill of rights. This has nothing to do with either of them..

The rest of your post is just incoherent rambling, moralizing and virtue signaling, void of any actual argument or reason. Saying that a majority of pro athletes wouldn't be rich if it wasn't for pro sports isn't racist. It's blatantly fucking obvious. They have minimal education, many of them have substance abuse issues, the list goes on...

"notice how no-one has stopped him" of course nobody has stopped him... what do you want owners to do, physically hold him up during the national anthem? Or just not sign him to their team? They've done the latter... despite the fact that he's absolutely good enough to warrant a starting QB position. This isn't about acting like a piece of shit at work... Kaepernick was effectively fired for doing something he shouldn't have been fired for.

"there is no institutionalized racism in the US" just stop it. Maybe you're not in-touch enough with society and the world to recognize it. Examples: entertainment industry (movies), racially-based policing, housing (informal redlining).

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Sep 25, 2017

Go talk to the Google employee who was canned for his beliefs.

Loser kapershit can use his college education to serve coffee or juggle oranges.

Sep 26, 2017

Kaepernick wasn't fired. He opted out of the last year of his contract with SF. He entered free agency willingly and then was not signed to another team.

    • 1
Sep 25, 2017
afroninja26:
Esuric:
YungMonc:
TNA:

This issue is important because of the viral nature of this social cancer.

These clowns who get paid to throw a ball around, who've had special treatment by the police their whole life, are now openly disrespecting this country over fake police brutality.

They have a right to do it and they also have to deal with the consequences.

I for one am not watching grown children play a game after this shit. Would love to see them try and function in society if we didn't pay them so much to run around.

BTW - I'm pretty sure the majority of America thinks these babies are in the wrong. Funny how Godell is acting all righteous when his ass was on thin ice a year ago. Must be a tough job apologizing for a league full of rapists, murderers and general criminals.

Re Hernandez, Lewis, Burress.

Re Jameis Wilson, De'Andre Johnson.

1: I agree that hypocrisy is rampant. Although I believe we disagree on the source of hypocrisy.

Kaepernick isn't playing for a team PURELY because of his peaceful protests last year. He is a better QB than other starters. Meanwhile, rapists and murderers are currently playing on NFL teams. Goes to show that NFL owners will hire rapists and murderers but not.....peaceful protesters? And Trump doesn't complain and call these rapists and murderers the REAL "sons of bitches?" Ultimate hypocrisy.

2: "Openly disrespecting his country over fake police brutality"

Is that a joke? Kaepernick plainly said he was kneeling to use his platform as a pro QB to bring attention to institutionalized racism and police brutality in the United States. (Re: police brutality being fake.....Look at any statistics or studies ... https://vittana.org/42-shocking-police-brutality-s... )

It is telling that you think bringing attention to those issues is "disrespecting the country." Are you admitting that this country was founded on those negative ideals? (Namely, slavery, race-based violence and oppression) Are you admitting that it is disrespectful to "your version" of the USA to bring attention to racism and violence?

3: "I'm pretty sure the majority of America thinks these babies are in the wrong" Great generalization, honestly who knows. NOT THAT IT MATTERS. When the US had slavery, don't you think the majority thought that it was OK (otherwise it would have been outlawed sooner)?? The majority of the US does not know that freedom of speech is protected in the 1st amendments to the Bill of Rights. We have inalienable rights, and it doesn't matter if people think they are right or wrong or are clueless.

4: Your bitterness toward gifted athletes is obvious and sad. Your saying, "Would love to see them try and function in society if we didn't pay them so much to run around" displays your obvious racism and misunderstanding of lower income neighborhoods (where young kids think the only way out of the ghetto is through music/hip hop or sports). And if you can't see that, you are a completely lost cause...

5: I agree that coaches can make a set of rules and fire anyone who doesn't follow them. Obviously, one rule can't be "suck my dick or you're fired" but requiring players to stand for the star spangled banner is completely reasonable! However....there is a market for talent! You understand that I am sure!!!

If my CEO required everyone to wear tuxedos everyday and lowered our dinner stipend from $25 to $2 (fully legal)....we would quit and find another bank. Our current bank would go BK. The market right now doesn't require players to stand. And it doesn't look like it will anytime soon.

    - Kaepernick isn't playing because people detest his unpatriotic, arrogant and misinformed ass. He has a right to kneel during football games (notice how no one stopped him) and viewers have a right to change the channel. Welcome to freedom shit head. Freedom doesn't mean freedom from consequences. If I act like a piece of shit at work I would likely get fired as well, and it would have nothing to do with my race.
    - There is no institutionalized racism in the U.S. African Americans are granted institutionalized privilege, actually. They literally get jobs and go to the best schools specifically because of their race. Institutionalized racism is Jim Crow, Apartheid, etc. Also, careful with bullshit statistics. Correlation is not causation and I could, if I wanted to, spam this post with links that statistically dispute your assertion.

That said, there is racism in the country, the same way that there's racism in every country. You're just not aware of it because you're an ignorant American. They used to throw bananas at Thierry Henry. Could you imagine the outcry if that happened here in the states?

    - You clearly don't understand the first amendment or the bill of rights. This has nothing to do with either of them..

The rest of your post is just incoherent rambling, moralizing and virtue signaling, void of any actual argument or reason. Saying that a majority of pro athletes wouldn't be rich if it wasn't for pro sports isn't racist. It's blatantly fucking obvious. They have minimal education, many of them have substance abuse issues, the list goes on...

"notice how no-one has stopped him" of course nobody has stopped him... what do you want owners to do, physically hold him up during the national anthem? Or just not sign him to their team? They've done the latter... despite the fact that he's absolutely good enough to warrant a starting QB position. This isn't about acting like a piece of shit at work... Kaepernick was effectively fired for doing something he shouldn't have been fired for.

"there is no institutionalized racism in the US" just stop it. Maybe you're not in-touch enough with society and the world to recognize it. Examples: entertainment industry (movies), racially-based policing, housing (informal redlining).

Yes, they could have stopped him, the same way that they stopped that dude (forget his name) from wearing pink shoes when his mom died from cancer..

But this level of confusion is the combination of two factors: (a) growing up exclusively in the US, enjoying the privilege that that provides and therefore lacking perspective and (b) mind control via public schooling with pseudo communist public workers ("teachers"). There's a reason why government schooling is a central tenet of Marxism (one of the 10 planks of Marxism).

Institutional racism is not the same as racism. Institutional racism is not even the same as widespread racism (which you haven't yet demonstrated). Here's an example of institutional bigotry: a man in Afghanistan can legally restrict his wife's right to leave the house; in Saudi Arabia, women are not legally permitted to drive. These are examples of institutionalized sexism. In Iran, homosexuals are executed, either by hanging or stoning. This is an example of institutionalized homophobia. Blacks and whites were segregated in the US and in South Africa. These were examples of institutionalized racism.

A trigger happy, bad cop executing an African American because he mistakenly believed that his life was in danger is not an example of institutionalized racism. Do you understand the differences? The use of the term "institutionalized racism" to describe modern US society is hyperbole meant to divide. It has no grounding in reality, particularly because there's institutionalized reverse racism (affirmative action).

Now, why is this an issue? Unlike Croatia, for example, there isn't really anything intrinsic to Americans that makes them America. Croatians share a common religion, a common language, etc. A Croatian looks Croatian. There is no "American look." What unites Americans is its short-lived history. A set of principles (as stated in the declaration). These principles are under attack, and it's going to get worse.

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Sep 27, 2017
Esuric:

in Saudi Arabia, women are not legally permitted to drive.

They just legalized female driving in Saudi Arabia

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

Sep 26, 2017

@TNA you're right about the difference in treatment athletes gets versus normal folk. Stubenville football players raped a girl and got away with nothing but a slap on the wrist, Michael Vick was forgiven and treated like a God after his sentence, Stanford swimmer got away with rape and had women who supported him, etc etc

Collin Kappernick is a punk and failed football player who tries too damn hard to play the victim card.

And how could we forget this?

Colin Kap Socks

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Sep 25, 2017

Happens endlessly in college as well.

Police do over step and there are bad cops. But the whole BLM movement loses credibility when they stand on falsehoods ("hands up, don't shoot") or defend criminals who fought cops, grabbed for their gun and got shot.

Plenty of bad apples to highlight, yet they only focus on the statistically insignificant number of blue on blue violence.

Sep 26, 2017

[quote="TNA"]

Bingo! Like every social/progressive movement (usually) they start off with good intentions only to morph into something so far removed from its original purpose (i.e. Occupy Wall Street).

If BLM was so concerned about black lives why weren't they protesting when Jamyla Bolden was shot and killed while doing her homework in Ferguson because of a drive by shooting?

Nope they are much more focused on blocking roads and inconveniencing others as if we're all living under a rock and don't know about police brutality.

Also each case is and was different and unique. The only commonality is that a black man was shot and killed by police officers.

Also I'm 100% confident that had Michael Brown not choked out the Indian store clerk his ass would still be alive today.

But nope had to make him a martyr that he wasn't. And of course Obama didn't help at all with his idiotic comment that if he had a son he'd be like Trayvon. Oh really former POTUS? You want your kid to be a punk ass nobody?

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Sep 28, 2017

Honestly, my biggest WTF moment of this whole thread is seeing people saying Kaepernick was/is good. What games were you watching?

Sep 29, 2017

How can you call these people "clowns who get paid to throw a ball around"? They are at the top 0.1% of what they do and it's definitely more competitive than finance.

Sep 30, 2017
TNA:

These clowns who get paid to throw a ball around, who've had special treatment by the police their whole life, are now openly disrespecting this country over fake police brutality.

Coming from a Florida fan, I agree entirely with the first half of this sentiment. There has been so much bullshit that Florida players (and I'm sure other school's players) have gotten away with.

The second half I don't. There are many instances of police brutality in this country, even if a lot of the BLM / ANTIFA choose to violently protest obviously justified police shootings. See Tatyana Hargrove:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-...
I believe that they have the right to protest however they see fit and, if Goodell or their owners see fit, they could be released from their contract. Their protest is not disruptive to the sporting environment, so I don't see why everyone's making such a big deal about it.

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Sep 25, 2017

I'm one of the more ardent Trump supporters around, but it cost him political capital to get involved in this. People don't want the president commenting on their bread and circuses, even Trump supporters. All this did was get him more enemies from people who would've otherwise not even cared.

As for the national anthem, I think it's shitty that some entitled football player wouldn't show respect and stand, but it's his right to do so. I mainly watch baseball and hockey, where this shit doesn't happen, so I don't really have a dog in the fight.

"Work ethic, work ethic" - Vince Vaughn
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Sep 25, 2017

Do you think all the cops, firemen, veterans, etc fault trump for calling this shit out?

It's insidious. It wasn't Trump making the NFL political. If anything, this just solidifies his base. Im glad someone is speaking out about this shit.

Sep 25, 2017

I think those aforementioned people are already making their voices heard by boycotting the NFL (have you seen the ratings recently?). With declining ratings, increased awareness about concussions and player safety, and millennials being less and less inclined to pay for a cable subscription to watch sports, it's likely that the NFL is going to feel the silent majority's wrath anyways. And they deserve it. They're basically a monopoly (how does the NFL doesn't violate antitrust laws is beyond me). They think they can bully the hardworking people of this country and expect they'll still show up to games and buy jerseys.

I just don't think it's a matter for the president to get involved in.

"Work ethic, work ethic" - Vince Vaughn
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Sep 25, 2017

In general, I agree, but Trumps a sounding board for the moral decay of this country.

And besides, Presidents do all kinds of shit like pick NCAA brackets. And you have players refusing to go to the White House which is absurd. Happy he chose the Penguins.

Sep 25, 2017
TNA:

In general, I agree, but Trumps a sounding board for the moral decay of this country.

And besides, Presidents do all kinds of shit like pick NCAA brackets. And you have players refusing to go to the White House which is absurd. Happy he chose the Penguins.

Aww yes, Donald Trump, self proclaimed sexual assailant, man who has talked regularly about his daughters tits, thrice divorced, countless accusations of ripping off and lying to small business owners, proven to lie as much as he tells the truth, regularly insults other peoples appearances in a public manner, is a man here to protect the moral well being of our country. Where would we be without his guidance back towards righteousness.

I swear, every time you post it sounds more and more like you might as well be a north Korean citizen talking about Kim Jong Un.

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Sep 25, 2017

Great post. We are talking about NFL players kneeling during the anthems and Donald Trumps accusations are relevant, how?

Is Donald complaining about police brutality while also benefiting from police favoritism?

Sep 25, 2017
TNA:

Great post. We are talking about NFL players kneeling during the anthems and Donald Trumps accusations are relevant, how?

Is Donald complaining about police brutality while also benefiting from police favoritism?

Your post: "Trump's a sound board for the moral decay of our country."

My post: Pointed and relevant response, aimed directly at what you said

Your post: Why are you off topic?

You're kidding right?

Also, the argument that the those in positions of power shouldn't stand up for those who aren't, is a legitimately asinine and a particularly selfish one.

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Sep 25, 2017

Trumps echoing what middle America thinks.

1) police brutality issue is a joke stirred up by the press.

2) these players have benefited from police largesse.

3) disrespecting the national antheme is a poor way to take a stand.

Sep 25, 2017
AllDay_028]
[quote=TNA:

Also, the argument that the those in positions of power shouldn't stand up for those who aren't, is a legitimately asinine and a particularly selfish one.

Thank you AllDay

This type of thinking is what divides republican/conservative/fake-christians from progressive 21st century people

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Sep 26, 2017
TNA:

Great post. We are talking about NFL players kneeling during the anthems and Donald Trumps accusations are relevant, how?

Is Donald complaining about police brutality while also benefiting from police favoritism?

Since this was brought up why did those women who accused Trump of sexual assault wait so damn long until he was running for President?

If President Trump DID what they accused him of where the fuck are they now?

Probably because it was a bullshit accusation...

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Sep 30, 2017
TNA:

Is Donald complaining about police brutality while also benefiting from police favoritism?

Help me understand: you think that just because these NFL players benefit from police favoritism, they shouldn't speak up against police brutality?

Since I am a white male, would it be wrong of me to speak out against racial discrimination towards certain demographics?

You keep saying that because these NFL players are wealthy and not victims of the crimes they are denouncing, that they have no right to denounce it. I personally think people of social influence like professional athletes should absolutely denounce police brutality. Everyone should denounce police brutality. It's fucking police brutality!

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Sep 26, 2017

Wait did Trump really talk about his daughter's tits lol what the hell

there is another comparison to north korea xD

Sep 25, 2017
TNA:

In general, I agree, but Trumps a sounding board for the moral decay of this country.

And besides, Presidents do all kinds of shit like pick NCAA brackets. And you have players refusing to go to the White House which is absurd. Happy he chose the Penguins.

Funny that most said Tom Brady was racist because he didn't want to meet President Obama.

In terms of "police brutality" today is 99.9% BS. Yes there is a rogue officer here and there which get dealt with, even if the firings are more for political gain that rightful termination. Police are severely restrained today versus how it was decades ago. Hell, back then you had far stronger arguments for police brutality than today, and it's not even close. Funny how when police shoot these dirtbags the media conveniently looks the other way when the rap sheets of those POS are published with a long string of priors.

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

Sep 25, 2017
TNA:

In general, I agree, but Trumps a sounding board for the moral decay of this country.

And besides, Presidents do all kinds of shit like pick NCAA brackets. And you have players refusing to go to the White House which is absurd. Happy he chose the Penguins.

picking NCAA bracket =/= unhinged, divisive, racially charged twitter rants

Sep 25, 2017

This is an idiotic response.

You're a racist. The NFL has white players as well. Didn't realize complaining about people kneeling during the anthem was racism.

Try again straw man.

Sep 25, 2017
TNA:

This is an idiotic response.

You're a racist. The NFL has white players as well. Didn't realize complaining about people kneeling during the anthem was racism.

Try again straw man.

not hard to read between the lines how race is a factor here, but sure whatever MAGA 1 tweet at a time!!!

Sep 25, 2017

Just because you see racism in your mind doesn't make it true. Should have learned that with Santa Clause.

Btw - I can see the racism dropping from your post. Bigot.

Sep 25, 2017
TNA:

Just because you see racism in your mind doesn't make it true. Should have learned that with Santa Clause.

Btw - I can see the racism dropping from your post. Bigot.

What a strange and disturbing response!

Sep 25, 2017

I read between the lines and saw your racism. Not really hard.

See how stupid that sounds. Exactly.

Sep 25, 2017

What is the NFL a monopoly on? They are an entertainment company and compete with all other entertainment companies. BTW, the leagues are going to get more valuable as cord cutting takes over, content providers will pay a premium for stuff people watch live, sports being almost unwatchable when it's not live they will benefit. Also, despite the dip in ratings, the NFL blows everyone else out when it comes to ratings. They will be fine for years, the brain damage stuff is much worse for them than some silent majority not watching games.

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Sep 25, 2017

Nope, this actually strenghtens Trump. He has the balls to take on one of the country's biggest and most influential institutions, the NFL, and says what the majority of fans already think, they hate it when players kneel during the anthem. I believe a strong majority like that he called the NFL out. Take a quick look at any NFL team's message board, the vast majority are against the kneeling.

Trump has furthered his patriotic platform, with opponents now seen as being against the American flag. Good luck with that.

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Sep 25, 2017

Unsurprisingly, the people that are known Trump supporters on this forum say "OMG THIS IS GREAT" and the people who don't support Trump think this was totally unnecessary. You're delusional if you think he won anyone over with this nonsense. It's a long time till 2020 but I think he's a one-term prez.

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Sep 25, 2017

So the fans booing their own teams and lighting their jerseys on fire mean nothing?

Sep 25, 2017

I didn't see much of that and those are likely fans that already supported Trump anyway.

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Sep 25, 2017

No doubt. I was mainly responding to the person who said this hurts him.

Sep 25, 2017

I can't believe people support these scumbags and their faux outrage.

Trump keeps hitting homeruns. Fucking love it

Sep 25, 2017
TNA:

I can't believe people support these scumbags and their faux outrage.

Trump keeps hitting homeruns. Fucking love it

This has to be my favorite talking point of his base. Every step of the way he's been defeated. He's legislatively been useless while controlling congress, hasn't been able to pass a single significant bill, continually defeated along the travel ban road, has lost time and again in his efforts to shut down the Russia investigation, has let Kim Jong Un make him and the US look weak on the international stage, has had continued turnover in the white house and has been unable to manage his people, and has ceded US power at several international negotiation tables, all while having the lowest approval rating in the history of politics, but his base just continues to claim victory based on talking points from breitbart articles.

It's surreal watching just how quickly people cede their intellectually capabilities in hopes of finding a figurehead and ruler to tell them how and what they should think.

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Sep 25, 2017

His travel ban was unanimously upheld by SCOTUS. Republicans keep grinding away at Obamacare. He's repealed almost all of Obamas EOs. He raised the debt ceiling.

And he's quietly remaking the court system. Yeah, hard core losing.

Sep 25, 2017
TNA:

His travel ban was unanimously upheld by SCOTUS. Republicans keep grinding away at Obamacare. He's repealed almost all of Obamas EOs. He raised the debt ceiling.

And he's quietly remaking the court system. Yeah, hard core losing.

The case hasn't been heard by SCOTUS yet, he got a stay until it is. And for the majority of the year has been unable to enforce most of it. We'll see the final ruling months from now. They already lost the repeal when McCain again said he wouldn't back it two days ago. Reversing things within your sole power to reverse is... winning? Something any person in power at anytime could have done. And you really want to taut raising the debt ceiling, something no president has ever has a problem doing when needed, as a win? Do you count waking up every morning as a win?

So by my count, two of his wins are things he's working on, one of which is known to be dead on arrival, and two are things that have no real opposition.

Seems about right.

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Sep 25, 2017

You're confusing the grand parents issue with the first SCOTUS ruling on the validity of banning people from 8 countries, excluding people with green cards and visas.

Republicans also sweetened the deal for Alaska. Ain't dead yet. Furthermore, this is a condemnation on republicans. If Trump had blonde morons like Obama did he could pass a bunch of shit. Instead the losers in Congress bitch for 8. Years and do nothing.

Sep 25, 2017
TNA:

You're confusing the grand parents issue with the first SCOTUS ruling on the validity of banning people from 8 countries, excluding people with green cards and visas.

Republicans also sweetened the deal for Alaska. Ain't dead yet. Furthermore, this is a condemnation on republicans. If Trump had blonde morons like Obama did he could pass a bunch of shit. Instead the losers in Congress bitch for 8. Years and do nothing.

Incorrect. Oral arguments on the entirety of the travel ban happens October 10th. They may decide to ignore certain parts of the ban, as most of the order has expired and is no longer law anyways, but they also have the option and ability to uniformly deem in illegal. No official ruling has been made on either side.

Which makes your below comment even funnier, considering the continued misinformation you keep writing.

Update, as of ten minutes ago, the date is going to be pushed pending new briefs related to the new ban: http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-interna...
Which is a clear indication the entire legality of the ban is up for debate. Man, this is looking worse and worse for you, TNA.

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Sep 25, 2017

1) SCOTUS upheld the ban, lifting the injunction that the biased lower courts levied.

2) they are hearing the case further on who can be excluded.

Try again. The laws always been valid and only biased courts tried to block it.

Sep 25, 2017

Do you follow the news at all?

Obama had plenty of issue raising the debt ceiling. Hence the downgrade fhebUS received.

Get up on facts before you start talking shit.

Sep 25, 2017

Fck ya my dog. Snowflakes are enraged

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Sep 25, 2017

It's political grandstanding at the highest level, at the cost of furthering the divide between citizens within our nation.

Has the balls to take on the NFL? What did he actually accomplish here? The owners can't make their players stand, even if they wanted to. This issue was slowly falling out of the headlines but now, it's fucking supercharged with his base having their subjective opinions validated as "patriotic" by the president, and minorities rising against because their favorite sports superstar (e.g. LeBron, Durant) is publicly slamming the POTUS to millions on social media.

As Bob mentioned, there are tactful, graceful ways of dealing with social issues. This is not one of them.

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Sep 25, 2017

Not saying it was tactful. What did he accomplish? He spoke for the majority of his supporters.

Sep 25, 2017

The country is divided. Trump is unifying a powerful force.

Dems have been breaking this country down for years. Finally there is a counter"

Sep 25, 2017

Accomplished being a mouth-piece for his base? Where's the beef?

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Sep 25, 2017

only thing I'll comment on here is "owners can't make their players stand..."

from a practical standpoint, maybe not, because the backlash from the fans might be crippling to merch sales and overall business, but as a private employer, they can make their employees do whatever they want them to so long as it doesn't violate their rights (which, the first amendment only protects you from the gummint suppressing your speech, not your employer).

Sep 25, 2017

You forget that players are in a union and have collectively bargained an agreement, I don't think they can make them do "whatever the want" due to that.

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Sep 25, 2017

I don't know jack shit about employment law, so while they're unionized, idk if that means that they're offered protections in this area. I don't have the time nor the interest to read the CBA, so I'll wait for Bob Ley to talk about it hah!

Sep 25, 2017

NFLPA is the professional football player's union. The CBA is the "bylaws" by which the players and the owners agree to.

"...Unlike the NBA, the NFL has no rule requiring players to stand. And while it's possible individual teams have (or may adopt) such a rule, the Collective Bargaining Agreement does not authorize teams to impose fines or otherwise discipline players for not standing during the anthem."
SOURCE

So no, they cannot contractually make them stand.

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Sep 25, 2017

thanks for clarifying, fuckin unions.

just read the source. where is he getting his info. what's the actual clause? I'm ignorant here. is there something that says "players must stand for the national anthem" or is it more vague, like "players must not exhibit conduct detrimental to their employing franchise"

I'm betting it's the latter, but again, idk for sure, and I'm not reading the CBA in its entirety, I'm more worried about the packers' injury report than what they do during the national anthem

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Sep 25, 2017

If players are doing something to negatively impact the franchise, I'm pretty sure there are repercussions.

Ratings continue to decrease. I hope this decreases franchise values.

Sep 26, 2017
m8:

Nope, this actually strenghtens Trump. He has the balls to take on one of the country's biggest and most influential institutions, the NFL, and says what the majority of fans already think, they hate it when players kneel during the anthem. I believe a strong majority like that he called the NFL out. Take a quick look at any NFL team's message board, the vast majority are against the kneeling.

Trump has furthered his patriotic platform, with opponents now seen as being against the American flag. Good luck with that.

Trump is a buffoon in many ways, and he was pretty much my last choice during the 2016 GOP primary. Having said that, Trump is great at baiting the liberals, getting them to overreact, thereby exposing their true colors as those whose identity hinges upon racial/gender/sexual orientation identity rather than as Americans. Look at how liberals went nuts after Trump's confederate monuments comments, and people actually started defacing statues of Lincoln and Jefferson.

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Sep 25, 2017

I do find it funny that the same people that protest removal of confederate traitor statues get worked up over someone "disrespecting" the flag.

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Sep 25, 2017

It would be wonderful if you understood history.

You should also try and understand the word traitor, specifically in this context.

And I'm pretty sure it isnt Judy the south that is pissed about this.

Sep 25, 2017

Oh please, TNA the US history scholar. I understand hypocrisy and mental gymnastics. Throw MS at me all you want TNA.

I think it's stupid that people take Trump's bait all the time. He lives off controversy and race baiting. But I guess as president you can't ignore him.

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Sep 25, 2017

This was a small and largely isolated protest by a few players until The Donald decided to throw red meat to his followers and condemn these guys. It was a non-story but our president couldn't help but get involved, anything that isn't compliant with his beliefs is due for attack. He has now spurred a movement where even OWNERS THAT DONATED TO HIS CAMPAIGN ARE STANDING AGAINST HIM. Tom Brady, he of the not-so-hidden MAGA hat, personally came out against his comments. I love this country (in general) and will continue to stand up for the anthem but I have no problem with what these guys are doing. The justice system and the way it treats minorities is fundamentally fucked up. You can possibly say it's not due to race, that the justice system is slanted against the poor, but minorities are disproportionately poor. To make it worse our president is completely callous and just doesn't give a fuck, he hired a "tough on crime" attorney general that has now encouraged justice departments around the country to enforce the toughest possible minimum sentencing standards, has encouraged police to be more "rough", and has advocated stop-and-frisk which was found to be applied racially and unconstitutionally. In any case, this is another situation where our president took his time to address a minor issue with zero tact or class, as expected.

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Sep 26, 2017

They have a right to take a knee and I have a right to not support it. They're permitted to exercise their rights but don't impede my freedom to exercise mine.

Two weeks ago some guy at a BWW in California turned off the anthem and blamed a fake corporate policy to justify it. That's the stuff that annoys me: people thinking their own rights supersede the rights of others.

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Sep 25, 2017
Managerette:

They have a right to take a knee and I have a right to not support it. They're permitted to exercise their rights but don't impede my freedom to exercise mine.

couldn't have summed it up any better.

Sep 25, 2017

On one hand Colin started a fire. On the other, the Donald made it bigger. Edit: it'll blow over by next week. But Trump being petty will always be here.

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Sep 25, 2017

It's a beautiful thing when millionaires who have a lot to lose by standing for something do it anyway. The disenfranchised don't have much of a voice in society so it is always very good when those with a voice speak out, despite the perils associated. Let's bring everything out into the open, sweeping stuff under the rug is what got us here.

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Sep 25, 2017

By blow over, do you mean the players will stop staying in the locker rooms/kneeling in a week? I'm not convinced that's gunna happen. If the players keep protesting, it's not gunna blow over. There's way too big of a hard on for the flag for it to ever blow over if the protests continue.

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Sep 25, 2017
DeepLearning:

By blow over, do you mean the players will stop staying in the locker rooms/kneeling in a week? I'm not convinced that's gunna happen. If the players keep protesting, it's not gunna blow over. There's way too big of a hard on for the flag for it to ever blow over if the protests continue.

I think all football fans really care about is fantasy football stats and showing who's got the bigger c***. Maybe in a week some will protest, but whole teams? I doubt that. I'm saying that Trump will move on to other things once he's bored with this.

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Sep 25, 2017

I think the point that most people are missing (not whether kneeling is disrespectful to the flag, etc.) is that you never have the right to use your professional position (while on the job) to advocate for a political position outside that of which your boss explicitly endorses and supports. Otherwise, they should be fire for cause.

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Sep 25, 2017

Look, this guys is an autocrat. Fuck Trump and his pussy ass sensibilities. That's the real reason teams protested. The NFL probably ok'd it once this orange prick decided he was going to interfere in their business. Fuck bitch ass man of a president.

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Sep 26, 2017

My thoughts:

  1. The players have the right to engage in peaceful protest.
  2. Those in the audience have the right to boo the players bending the knee, and no, it does not make them racist, contrary to what liberals think.
  3. Trump should not have made this a bigger issue, but having said that, it looks like liberals once again fell into his trap.
  4. Kaepernick and others are wrong about police shootings of black men, as their thesis is not supported by empirical data.
  5. Although racism still exists and will always exist, there is virtually no government sanctioned systemic racism, as there was back before the Civil Rights movement. Much of what liberal decry as "racism" is simply conservative policy positions on issues that happen to disproportionately impact minorities (i.e., crime, affirmative action, school vouchers, illegal immigration).
  6. As a conservative, I look forward to the Democrats incorporating this into their campaign platform in 2020.
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Sep 25, 2017

Please provide evidence on (4). Of course racism isn't government sanctioned but the application of criminal law in this country is applied in a racist manner, which is what people have issue with, so I don't really get your point on (5) other than to distract and regurgitate boilerplate rhetoric.

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Sep 26, 2017
BobTheBaker:

Please provide evidence on (4). Of course racism isn't government sanctioned, the application of criminal law in this country is applied in a racist manner though, which is what people have issue with so I don't really get your point on (5).

Heather MacDonald has done excellent work on the issue of police shootings and race. According to the Washington Post, police fatally shot 36 unarmed black men, nationwide, compared to 31 unarmed white men. In many of those cases, the black men tried to grab the officer's gun and/or were assaulting them. So the number of truly innocent non-hostile unarmed black men who were shot dead by cops, is very tiny.

The more important point, and one that is politically incorrect, is the following. When judging police shootings or other negative police encounters with black men, it's important to note that blacks commit crimes at a disproportionately higher rate than other races. In the nation's 75 largest counties, where blacks make up 15% of the population, they made up 62% of all robbery defendants, 57% of murder, and 45% of assault. In NYC, blacks are 23% of the city's population but committed 75% of all shootings and 70% of robberies. Given this data, there is no evidence that cops are out on a systemic rampage to kill black men, and it explains why there are so many unfortunate encounters between cops and black men to begin with.

Second, when people express anger about cops getting off, they seem to forget that those cops were acquitted after a jury trial (yes, there were blacks in those juries), in which the jury heard evidence from both sides and carefully deliberated. In the United States, one is innocent until proven guilty; the burden of proof is on the prosecution that the defendant knowingly and willingly committed cold-blooded murder. It's a high bar, as it should be, since a guilty verdict will mean the person spends a long time in prison. And that bar is even higher when it comes to cops due to the dangerous nature of their jobs. Do liberals believe that we should do away with jury trials? Do they think the jury should be all black if the victim is black, and the cop is white? The argument here doesn't make sense to me.

Finally, as for sentencing, there is indeed a racial disparity. But in a 2012 paper, a law and economics professor studied a sample of 58,000 federal cases and concluded that 83% of the sentencing disparity between whites and blacks can be explained by differences in criminal record, arrest offense, gender, age, and location. A report by the U.S. Commission on Sentencing also warned that one cannot conclude that this disparity is due to racism.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspir...

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Sep 25, 2017

First, I want to thank you for providing a reasoned response backed with evidence. You cited one study that illuminated racial disparity in the justice system, and wrote it off as correlation without causation. That's fine although I would say that your conclusion is based on the narrative you ascribe to. Here is an article that cites multiple studies, of course most of these studies control for seriousness of offense and prior criminal history: like any study worth anything should. These cover everything from sentencing, to police stops to plea deals etc. Sentencing is only one part of the equation.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cr...
As for your citation of Heather McDonald, that is not a study, she just cites a bunch of demographics. Let me provide you some studies:

There are dozens of studies displaying racial bias in policing and in the justice system. During civil rights investigations performed by the justice department under Obama, racially biased policing was exposed everywhere from Baltimore to San Francisco. To say that "there is no empirical evidence" is laughable.

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Sep 25, 2017

The racial disparities in sentencing and policing are not sufficient to explain the gap in crime rates between blacks and every other racial group in the US.

That is to say, racial disparities likely exist but they do not fully account for our current situation.

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Sep 25, 2017

When did anyone say the racial disparities in sentencing is sufficient to explain the gap in crime rates between blacks and every other racial group in the US?

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Sep 25, 2017

When did I say someone did? My point reconciles the arguments made by you and Rufus.

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Sep 25, 2017

No, it really doesn't.

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Sep 25, 2017

Ok. I think it does.

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Sep 25, 2017
BobTheBaker:

but the application of criminal law in this country is applied in a racist manner, which is what people have issue with,

You have absolutely no evidence for this whatsoever.

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Sep 25, 2017

Lol.... You must be blind. I posted links to like 10 studies above. I mean you can't be serious man.

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Sep 25, 2017
Rufus1234:

- Although racism still exists and will always exist, there is virtually no government sanctioned systemic racism, as there was back before the Civil Rights movement. Much of what liberal decry as "racism" is simply conservative policy positions on issues that happen to disproportionately impact minorities (i.e., crime, affirmative action, school vouchers, illegal immigration).

I love how you tried to paint the racism as just happenstance lol.

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Sep 25, 2017

It is interesting though that the irony of the response by both sides is lost. In the context of free speech (let's ignore the professional setting argument) the liberal and conservative positions are completely reversed when compared to free speech on campus. Further proves that people will view every issue through their core beliefs cognitive dissonance be damned.

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Sep 25, 2017

I'm just really looking forward to seeing what America's Team does tonight, and if Jerry does anything if someone doesn't stand. My guess is everyone stands with locked arms.

Sep 25, 2017

It will be interesting to see what the broader implications are of this whole thing. The NFL will definitely lose viewers/ tickets and thus lower revenue. Maybe it will impact crazy ass college football complex where teams are building bigger and better athlete dorms/ work out rooms, cafeterias, etc. and eventually blow up the whole college bubble altogether.

Sep 25, 2017

Just read that Villanueva's jersey became the best selling jersey in the NFL after he came out for the Steelers.

I would be willing to bet his jersey sells more than any Kaepernick jersey. Imagine that...an offensive lineman more popular than a backup QB.

Sep 25, 2017

1.) This is over a 24 hour period
2.) https://www.sbnation.com/2017/8/1/16074976/nfl-col...

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Sep 25, 2017

I know. I am betting that this trend continues. More OL jerseys will be sold than Kaepernick ever sold.

Sep 25, 2017

I doubt it, not that it really matters.

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Sep 25, 2017

None of this really matters.

Sep 26, 2017
George_Banker:

Just read that Villanueva's jersey became the best selling jersey in the NFL after he came out for the Steelers.

I would be willing to bet his jersey sells more than any Kaepernick jersey. Imagine that...an offensive lineman more popular than a backup QB.

God bless Villanueva. A great American. A true patriot.

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Sep 25, 2017

in my opinion, kneeling for the national anthem is actually counter-productive for them. They should have wrapped themselves in an American flag, and went around saying "I love this country and the freedom it stands for, but please help celebrate freedom by acknowledging a problem plaguing the African American community - police brutality."

By kneeling, you are just driving yourself farther apart from the people that you're trying to gain support from. Instead of connecting with the American people, they are actually just doing something that many find disrespectful. That's not a great way to get people to see your point of view....

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Sep 25, 2017

agree. we seem to be talking more about whether or not it's offensive and not actually talking about the issue it was intended to address.

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Sep 25, 2017

The problem with this is protests are meant to make people feel uncomfortable, they are meant to be divisive (exclude those who are against your cause no matter what), and they are meant to draw attention to the issue so that the true undecideds can do their own research and (hopefully) join your side. I would be willing to bet more people are researching and becoming informed as a result of these protests.

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Sep 25, 2017

idk man. again, I support their right to protest however they want (after all, it is peaceful), but at the same time it's not as effective.

rewind to the 60's, was ali's draft dodging more or less effective than the marches on washington and selma? the former can be said to show disrespect to the nation's military (like kneeling for the anthem), while the latter is actually doing something to bring awareness to an issue, not to the individual.

you care about police brutality? do something that draws attention to the issue, not to yourself. again, I support their right to do it, I'm just saying it's silly and ineffective thusfar.

here are a couple of ideas, if you really want to enact change:

lobby for body cameras, more stringent self defense training for cops, etc.

go into communities near where your team is, invite cops with you, have a discussion about these issues NOT when emotions are high because someone has died. cops n barbers in charlotte is a great idea: http://www.npr.org/2016/10/09/497256661/cops-and-b...
have players do ride alongs and post them on social media. if we want to change police/minority relationships, we need to increase interaction and understanding of one another.

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Sep 26, 2017
thebrofessor:

idk man. again, I support their right to protest however they want (after all, it is peaceful), but at the same time it's not as effective.

rewind to the 60's, was ali's draft dodging more or less effective than the marches on washington and selma? the former can be said to show disrespect to the nation's military (like kneeling for the anthem), while the latter is actually doing something to bring awareness to an issue, not to the individual.

you care about police brutality? do something that draws attention to the issue, not to yourself. again, I support their right to do it, I'm just saying it's silly and ineffective thusfar.

I think it's fair to say that at this point, the protests have moved beyond police brutality and even Kaepernick and are focused more on protesting Trump specifically.

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Sep 25, 2017

Idk man, when people were staging sit-ins in the 60s were people happy about that? Were people happy about those same marches on Selma? Are people happy about the mostly peaceful protests stage by BLM or are they calling them a terrorist group comparable to the KKK? I think you're too optimistic about the human condition and people generally caring. Since the BLM protests have started all those changes you cited have started happening, the players are just part of the larger movement. BTW, Kaepernick donated $1 million to charities last year I believe, many players have done ride alongs with cops and had discussions with police departments. No matter how they protest it will be met with resistance by those who don't care to view their perspective or those who would rather preach hate.

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Sep 25, 2017

Literally zero people give a shit about donating money or doing ride alongs.

Kneeling during the anthem is insulting to all Americans. Real simple.

Did vets commit police violence on blacks? Did firemen? First responders? Kneeling insults them as well.

Sep 26, 2017
TNA:

Literally zero people give a shit about donating money or doing ride alongs.

They should though, because a common criticism is that kneeling during the anthem doesn't actually address the problem. Kaepernick's $1 million has a far greater impact than his kneeling. Malcom Jenkins and Anquan Boldin lobbied for criminal justice reform as well. People should give a shit about these things.

TNA:

Kneeling during the anthem is insulting to all Americans. Real simple. Did vets commit police violence on blacks? Did firemen? First responders? Kneeling insults them as well.

Is it? I don't feel insulted. I know plenty of people who don't feel insulted. More specifically, I know service people who don't feel insulted. This shit is only bothersome if you let it bother you, and one has to wonder why this is more bothersome to you than the police brutality that originally lead to these protests and the absurd president who is the focus of them now. You are projecting an absurd value on nationalism and patriotic symbolism.

There are far more important things going on in the world, right now, right as we speak, than some athletes kneeling in protest during a song. Trump should be focused on things like Puerto Rico, not this bullshit.

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Sep 25, 2017

He has stated many times in this thread that police brutality is fake and contrived by the media.

Sep 26, 2017
TNA]
Kneeling during the anthem is insulting to all Americans.
[quote="cre":

Is it? I don't feel insulted. I know plenty of people who don't feel insulted. "

I'm an American. I don't feel insulted in the slightest. I didn't even know about it until Trump commented on it. Thanks for bringing it to my attention to show me how butt hurt certain people can be by something that has absolutely zero effect on their life. Kind of amazing actually.

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Sep 25, 2017
thebrofessor:

while I'll always stand and put my hand over my heart for the Anthem, I believe real freedom is the right to do whatever you want, so long as you don't directly hurt another. some countries don't have that luxury, they are told to get in line or get out, and are fed propaganda and forced to take place in watching parades brainwashing them into believing how great their country is. what makes America great is that we have the freedom to disagree. where does this leave us? unfortunately, I think it leaves us more divided than united, because people either have the opinion "I ought to have the freedom to protest" or they have the opinion "any protest of the nat'l anthem or the US is disrespectful and ought not to be allowed." what's odd is that it seems both sides want elements of free speech removed (be it milo coming to Cal to speak or kaepernick taking a knee during the Star Spangled Banner). You can't have your cake and eat it too. the American thought police seems to be growing tentacles on both sides of the aisle.

what say you, WSO?

I don't think it's possible for me to more strongly disagree with what you've written here. Literally no one--not one person in America that I'm aware of--has said that the NFL players should not be allowed to protest under penalty from government. This is an entirely fabricated position that the Left has concocted in order to try to gain the moral high ground on this. At most what people have said is that the NFL players 1) shouldn't disrespect the nation by protesting during the national anthem, 2) if the players do disrespect the country then some fans may quit supporting the players and/or the team.

What the Left doesn't get is that just because you have the legal right to protest doesn't mean the opposition has a legal obligation to sit back and take it.

What I find the most galling about the BLM movement is that it started based on a complete lie--the Michael Brown incident of "hands up/don't shoot". Even the Obama administration had to admit that this was a fallacious account of the situation. The fact that a despicable criminal thug is the linchpin of the entire BLM movement is appalling and rather ironic.

Sep 25, 2017

1.) We are discussing Trump's response to this, our president, not the average Joe blow's response.
2.) Does it really matter how BLM started? What matters is their grievances are legitimate and need to be addressed. Focusing on how it started is a pointless distraction.
3.) Please link the evidence that Mike Brown was a "despicable criminal thug".

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Sep 25, 2017
BobTheBaker:

1.) We are discussing Trump's response to this, our president, not the average Joe blow's response.
2.) Does it really matter how BLM started? What matters is their grievances are legitimate and need to be addressed. Focusing on how it started is a pointless distraction.
3.) Please link the evidence that Mike Brown was a "despicable criminal thug".

Uhh, there was video of Michael Brown, minutes before his encounter with the police, attacking a convenient store worker in an attempted robbery. His death is literally zero loss to America. F*ck Michael Brown and his supporters.

The grievances of BLM are bullshit. In liberal Democrat-controlled cities, black people are disproportionately harassed by police when it comes to being pulled over by cops for ridiculous reasons, but there is no evidence of systemic police violence toward black people. A complete bastardization of the facts is how we have gotten to the point where police brutality toward blacks is accepted as a fact. The reality is, police encounters with black people are far higher because crime is far higher in the black community. More white people are killed by police every year than black people, but proportionally more black people are killed, but violent crime and black/police encounters are disproportionately higher, so you'd expect more violent encounters with the police.

The reality is, BLM is a scapegoat movement meant to justify the complete and embarrassing failure of the American black community. Its goal it to remove the political focus off the topic of high poverty, destroyed families, high unemployment, high crime rates, and terrible schools in the Democrat-run black communities nationwide. Politicians and political leaders give validation to the despicable, intellectually bankrupt BLM movement because it galvanizes their base against a common enemy and distracts from 80 years of Democrat party failure.

Fact: more black people are murdered in Chicago each year than die at the hands of police nationwide--by a wide margin. BLM doesn't care about this--they want to scapegoat the police to misdirect from their own life's failures.

Sep 25, 2017

Keep dropping woke MOABs bro.

Big Ben just came out and said he was ashamed at not coming out for the anthem. Good for him.

I hope the military and police boycott the NFL. Let the stadiums hire Private security.

Sep 25, 2017

I was going to respond seriously to you but realized it is pointless. You are some highly privileged white dude whose dad was CFO of a F500 insurance company (this is correct right?) that doesn't really know shit about shit but you want to speak on the plight of the average black american. Since you lack perspective or empathy you roll with your narrative, I can provide ample evidence that debunks your theory that blacks aren't victims of police brutality at a higher rate than their crime rates justify but you'll disregard said evidence as "damn lies and statistics" as you're apt to do. The fact that you cited democrat-controlled cities is part of your theme of viewing every single subject through your partisan goggles, which is part of the larger problem in this nation.

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Sep 26, 2017
BobTheBaker:

I was going to respond seriously to you but realized it is pointless. You are some highly privileged white dude whose dad was CFO of a F500 insurance company (this is correct right?) that doesn't really know shit about shit but you want to speak on the plight of the average black american. Since you lack perspective or empathy you roll with your narrative, I can provide ample evidence that debunks your theory that blacks aren't victims of police brutality at a higher rate than their crime rates justify but you'll disregard said evidence as "damn lies and statistics" as you're apt to do. The fact that you cited democrat-controlled cities is part of your theme of viewing every single subject through your partisan goggles, which is part of the larger problem in this nation.

And don't many liberals view every policy through the lens of race and see any unfortunate incident involving blacks as a sign of "systemic white racism?" I mean, for christ's sake, you had blacks who were pissed a few years back because no black movie or actors/actresses won an Oscar. I mean, seriously? As for BLM and Ferguson, its origins do matter because what liberals and Obama have done is to arrive at conclusions before all the facts are known, thereby painting a picture of white cops as racists out to get blacks. This has been extremely divisive and has undermined the cops' effectiveness. We are more racially divided now than we were say 10 years ago. That's not by accident.

And one more thing. Before you use the asinine white privilege argument against me (as if only blacks possess valid opinions on policy questions related to race), I'm a minority from a working class background whose dad used to work as a night janitor.

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.

Proud American
Proud Conservative
All Lives Matter

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Sep 25, 2017

I appreciate your original attempt to provide empirical evidence to support your arguments. Notice that I responded with at least 10 studies and you chose not to respond. Instead, you respond with whatever this is and end with a MAGA, All lives matter, and proud conservative. When you don't have a leg to stand on this is what you resort to, that's unfortunate, I thought we could hash it out like intelligent adults. Evidently, that isn't the case.

p.s. I didn't call the dude racist or nazi or whatever buzzword you'd accuse me of calling him.

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Sep 25, 2017

"You are some highly privileged white dude whose dad was CFO of a F500 insurance company (this is correct right?) that doesn't really know shit about shit"

Very adult and intelligent if you ask me

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Sep 25, 2017

I never claimed to respond intelligently to a post that was literally just talking points from fox news repeated on WSO. I was speaking on my previous discussion with rufus.

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Sep 26, 2017
BobTheBaker:

I appreciated your original attempt to provide empirical evidence to support your arguments. Notice that I responded with at least 10 studies and you chose not to response. Instead, you respond with whatever this is and end with a MAGA, All lives matter, and proud conservative. When you don't have a leg to stand on this is what you resort to, that's unfortunate, I thought we could hash it out like intelligent adults. Evidently, that isn't the case.

p.s. I didn't call the dude racist or nazi or whatever buzzword you'd accuse me of calling him.

I have not yet read the articles you posted, so why am I going to talk about something I haven't read in full?

You were the one who used the white privilege argument, not me. It's pretty clear that you are salty at Dances with Dachschunds. I have no idea why you brought up his race and socioeconomic background instead of just focusing on his argument. In doing so, you acted like a typical liberal SJW, so I responded in kind.

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Sep 25, 2017

His background speaks directly to the lack of empathy and perspective required to spew such garbage talking points with no reasoning or evidence to support said talking points and pass them off as truth. Speaking with him in the past and being aware of his background I cited that as a possible reason he's not worth attempting to reason with, I don't think you're at that point yet. I look forward to your well thought out response to my post that includes verifiable evidence to back your claims.

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Sep 26, 2017
BobTheBaker:

His background speaks directly to the lack of empathy and perspective required to spew such garbage talking points with no reasoning or evidence to support said talking points and pass them off as truth. Speaking with him in the past and being aware of his background I cited that as a possible reason he's not worth attempting to reason with, I don't think you're at that point yet. I look forward to your well thought out response to my post that includes verifiable evidence to back your claims.

So being white and rich means that you cannot be empathetic when it comes to issues regarding race. That is a pretty dumb argument, and a racist one, as you are imputing certain moral and personal qualities based purely on his race. Do you know dances with dachschunds on an intimate personal level, or is your assessment based upon political arguments on WSO?

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Sep 25, 2017

It certainly doesn't mean that but it certainly doesn't help. Like I said, my response was based on previous discussions as well. His lack of empathy or perspective likely has other causes in addition to his background. In any case I'm done. I should've just let his bullshit fly. I look forward to your response to our original discussion.

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Sep 26, 2017
BobTheBaker:

It certainly doesn't mean that but it certainly doesn't help. Like I said, my response was based on previous discussions as well. His lack of empathy or perspective likely has other causes in addition to his background. In any case I'm done. I should've just let his bullshit fly. I look forward to your response to our original discussion.

I'm very familiar with Dances with Dachschunds' prior posts and his political views. I disagree with his tone at times, but I'm not going to pontificate on his moral character and depth of empathy based on online discussions and his racial background. You should try that sometimes instead of seeing everything through the lens of race. Just some friendly advice from a fellow minority.

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Sep 25, 2017

I didn't say anything I wouldn't repeat in public. If someone said you're black so you're biased id generally agree. It's the reality of the human condition. Difference between me and the dude I'm criticizing is I consistently back my arguments with facts. What he did and usually does is just barf out a narrative.

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Sep 25, 2017
BobTheBaker:

I was going to respond seriously to you but realized it is pointless. You are some highly privileged white dude whose dad was CFO of a F500 insurance company (this is correct right?) that doesn't really know shit about shit but you want to speak on the plight of the average black american. Since you lack perspective or empathy you roll with your narrative, I can provide ample evidence that debunks your theory that blacks aren't victims of police brutality at a higher rate than their crime rates justify but you'll disregard said evidence as "damn lies and statistics" as you're apt to do. The fact that you cited democrat-controlled cities is part of your theme of viewing every single subject through your partisan goggles, which is part of the larger problem in this nation.

You always rely on purely unsubstantiated assertions and then retreat when empirically refuted. The worst part is that you're unable to control your emotions when you lose a debate and then make it personal. Just move on bro. Focus more on your bval career and less on politics.

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Sep 25, 2017

Yea bro, he presented a ton of empirical evidence in that post. Are you going to bring up my job every time you respond to me? Lol I asked for advice out of respect for your path, unlike you I don't let this political shit shake me to my core. I'd probably have a beer with TNA despite out differences.

Sep 25, 2017
BobTheBaker:

Yea bro, he presented a ton of empirical evidence in that post. Are you going to bring up my job every time you respond to me? Lol I asked for advice out of respect for your path, unlike you I don't let this political shit shake me to my core. I'd probably have a beer with TNA despite out differences.

Quote me mentioning your profession in prior posts and I'll venmo you $100

Sep 25, 2017

Slow clap. Exactly.

Sep 25, 2017

holy shit dude

"BLM is a scapegoat movement meant to justify the complete and embarrassing failure of the American black community"

Wonder if you'd attach your real name to that comment, or speak it publicly to a black person.

Sep 25, 2017

Isn't that the problem? The fascist-like antagonism that the ultra-left regards any point that runs counter to their narrative, daring anyone to make a public statement that runs counter to their group think?

Sep 25, 2017
iggs99988:

Isn't that the problem? The fascist-like antagonism that the ultra-left regards any point that runs counter to their narrative, daring anyone to make a public statement that runs counter to their group think?

dude what? I'm not "ultra left" or whatever, I'm pretty moderate I guess, I just know and regularly interact with a lot of minorities I respect and couldn't imagine the thought "BLM is a scapegoat movement meant to justify the complete and embarrassing failure of the American black community" ever entering my brain let alone publicly attaching my name to it.

This comment section has entered breitbart / tin foil hat territory. I'm outta here.

Sep 25, 2017

Dances made an argument and two leftists immediately responded - one said he didn't know what he was talking about because he's white, and the second said he shouldn't make this argument because black people would assault him IRL.

When the hell did the left get so radical?

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Sep 25, 2017

I said he didn't know what he was talking about because he is in his bubble and doesn't take the opportunity to actually learn. When I provide the opportunity he will disregard this evidence. Him being white and privileged is the reason he is in that bubble and the reason he lacks the perspective or impetus to actually learn. He didn't make an argument btw, he spat out a narrative with no supporting evidence and passed it off as an argument, sprinkled in with some partisan bullshit and ending it with garbage about black-on-black murders in Chicago and the (debunked) myth that BLM "doesn't care about that". For actual reasoned discussion that warrants a real response, look at my conversation with Rufus above.

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Sep 25, 2017

Can you really criticize someone for "spitting a narrative" while simultaneously creating a narrative about being "white and privileged"?

Sep 25, 2017

People are calling a Ben Carson a racist and the guy grew up in public housing.

It's like arguing with a child.

Sep 25, 2017

Those who disregard evidence, constantly name-call, feel the need to belittle when they don't have an actual response to a cogently stated argument, and proceed to regurgitate the same refuted argument as if it hasn't been addressed are the childish ones. Look back on your posts and tell me if any of that sounds like you.

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Sep 25, 2017

That's not what I said and it isn't worth going back and forth with you. No worries here man.

Sep 25, 2017

Bob,

I enjoy reading some of your posts here, but you simply asserting that you're making "well-reasoned" or "cogent" arguments is way off base. You made a race-based argument and made a narrative-based argument while accusing your opponent of doing just that.

You don't have some moral high-ground here.

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Sep 25, 2017

Race-based and narrative based argument? Nah, I didn't make an argument. I simply said he wasn't worth discussing with. I'm sorry man but I got frustrated reading drivel.

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Sep 26, 2017
TNA:

People are calling a Ben Carson a racist and the guy grew up in public housing.

It's like arguing with a child.

To many liberals, if you don't agree with their policy positions, you are the second coming of Hitler. There were liberals the past week actually praising Kim Jong Un because he bashed Trump. This is how sick this country has become.

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.

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Sep 25, 2017
PeterMBA2018:

Dances made an argument and two leftists immediately responded - one said he didn't know what he was talking about because he's white, and the second said he shouldn't make this argument because black people would assault him IRL.

When the hell did the left get so radical?

That isn't what either of us said. And neither of us are using any sort of Left/Right labels. Just wondering how much certain people here need anonymity to post vs. actually talk like this in public.

Sep 25, 2017