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Sep 25, 2017

This issue is important because of the viral nature of this social cancer.

These clowns who get paid to throw a ball around, who've had special treatment by the police their whole life, are now openly disrespecting this country over fake police brutality.

They have a right to do it and they also have to deal with the consequences.

I for one am not watching grown children play a game after this shit. Would love to see them try and function in society if we didn't pay them so much to run around.

BTW - I'm pretty sure the majority of America thinks these babies are in the wrong. Funny how Godell is acting all righteous when his ass was on thin ice a year ago. Must be a tough job apologizing for a league full of rapists, murderers and general criminals.

Re Hernandez, Lewis, Burress.

Re Jameis Wilson, De'Andre Johnson.

Sep 25, 2017

You think these largely poor, mostly black, pro athletes have had special treatment from police THEIR WHOLE LIFE? Sigh. Expecting any understanding, sympathy, or reason from you is asking too much. Good job labeling Winston a rapist when the woman was found to be lying, consistently. It fits your narrative and your perspective in life.

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Sep 25, 2017

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kirby-dick/how-flori...
Yeah, fuck off. Two women were raped and you make excused?? Disgusting.

Literally cannot believe you blame the woman for this sexual predator. Horrible.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/26/sports/football...
https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/wn33gm/the-j...
http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/11...
"FSU officials and the Tallahassee Police Department did little to investigate the credibility of the allegations. "

TALLAHASSEE POLICE DEPARTMENT DID LITTLE TO INVESTIGATE

Keep defending this criminal.

Sep 25, 2017

Laughing my ass off.

Fake police brutality? Come on man.

He "rescinded" Steph Curry's invitation to the White House, he called all players who don't stand for the national anthem, "sons of bitches", and he's calling for harder hits in the NFL because, "that's what people want to see".

I'm done with this experiment. The guy doesn't have an ounce of diplomacy and throw being "presidential" out with the bath water.

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Sep 25, 2017

Police brutality is blown out of propitiation in most cases. The hood rats just don't know how to put their hands behind their back. Even if they're being wrongfully arrested, don't resist you fcking morons.

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Sep 25, 2017

This experiment is over. Impeach the peach!

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Sep 25, 2017

These players acting like nobody has ever said something about their mom, grandmother, sister, daughter, wife or whatever on the football field and their feelings are hurt. You show me a professional football player and I will show you somebody that has said something bad about another player's mom.

Sep 25, 2017

Preach my dog

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Sep 25, 2017
TNA:

BTW - I'm pretty sure the majority of America thinks these babies are in the wrong. Funny how Godell is acting all righteous when his ass was on thin ice a year ago. Must be a tough job apologizing for a league full of rapists, murderers and general criminals.

I agree, but even if this wasn't true--that a majority of the country opposes national anthem protests--enough people find it appalling that they will tune out and it will likely hit the NFL in the pocketbook.

Most of my friends who support the NFL protests are pussy liberals who don't follow sports anyway.

Sep 25, 2017

What is funny is they choose to disrespect the entire country because of a supposedly few bad cops.

Remember when the NFL was stroking Pat Tillman hard? Now these guys are pissing on the anthem. Disgusting.

I love it though. It energizes those on the right , unifies the right and slowly removes any dilution that those on the left can be reasoned with. This will infect all sports (except a hockey), and will not stop. Just like tearing down American History won't stop at confederate statues.

Slippery slope is a truth, not a fallacy.

Sep 25, 2017
TNA:

This issue is important because of the viral nature of this social cancer.

These clowns who get paid to throw a ball around, who've had special treatment by the police their whole life, are now openly disrespecting this country over fake police brutality.

They have a right to do it and they also have to deal with the consequences.

I for one am not watching grown children play a game after this shit. Would love to see them try and function in society if we didn't pay them so much to run around.

BTW - I'm pretty sure the majority of America thinks these babies are in the wrong. Funny how Godell is acting all righteous when his ass was on thin ice a year ago. Must be a tough job apologizing for a league full of rapists, murderers and general criminals.

Re Hernandez, Lewis, Burress.

Re Jameis Wilson, De'Andre Johnson.

1: I agree that hypocrisy is rampant. Although I believe we disagree on the source of hypocrisy.

Kaepernick isn't playing for a team PURELY because of his peaceful protests last year. He is a better QB than other starters. Meanwhile, rapists and murderers are currently playing on NFL teams. Goes to show that NFL owners will hire rapists and murderers but not.....peaceful protesters? And Trump doesn't complain and call these rapists and murderers the REAL "sons of bitches?" Ultimate hypocrisy.

2: "Openly disrespecting his country over fake police brutality"

Is that a joke? Kaepernick plainly said he was kneeling to use his platform as a pro QB to bring attention to institutionalized racism and police brutality in the United States. (Re: police brutality being fake.....Look at any statistics or studies ... https://vittana.org/42-shocking-police-brutality-s... )

It is telling that you think bringing attention to those issues is "disrespecting the country." Are you admitting that this country was founded on those negative ideals? (Namely, slavery, race-based violence and oppression) Are you admitting that it is disrespectful to "your version" of the USA to bring attention to racism and violence?

3: "I'm pretty sure the majority of America thinks these babies are in the wrong" Great generalization, honestly who knows. NOT THAT IT MATTERS. When the US had slavery, don't you think the majority thought that it was OK (otherwise it would have been outlawed sooner)?? The majority of the US does not know that freedom of speech is protected in the 1st amendments to the Bill of Rights. We have inalienable rights, and it doesn't matter if people think they are right or wrong or are clueless.

4: Your bitterness toward gifted athletes is obvious and sad. Your saying, "Would love to see them try and function in society if we didn't pay them so much to run around" displays your obvious racism and misunderstanding of lower income neighborhoods (where young kids think the only way out of the ghetto is through music/hip hop or sports). And if you can't see that, you are a completely lost cause...

5: I agree that coaches can make a set of rules and fire anyone who doesn't follow them. Obviously, one rule can't be "suck my dick or you're fired" but requiring players to stand for the star spangled banner is completely reasonable! However....there is a market for talent! You understand that I am sure!!!

If my CEO required everyone to wear tuxedos everyday and lowered our dinner stipend from $25 to $2 (fully legal)....we would quit and find another bank. Our current bank would go BK. The market right now doesn't require players to stand. And it doesn't look like it will anytime soon.

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Sep 25, 2017
YungMonc:
TNA:

This issue is important because of the viral nature of this social cancer.

These clowns who get paid to throw a ball around, who've had special treatment by the police their whole life, are now openly disrespecting this country over fake police brutality.

They have a right to do it and they also have to deal with the consequences.

I for one am not watching grown children play a game after this shit. Would love to see them try and function in society if we didn't pay them so much to run around.

BTW - I'm pretty sure the majority of America thinks these babies are in the wrong. Funny how Godell is acting all righteous when his ass was on thin ice a year ago. Must be a tough job apologizing for a league full of rapists, murderers and general criminals.

Re Hernandez, Lewis, Burress.

Re Jameis Wilson, De'Andre Johnson.

1: I agree that hypocrisy is rampant. Although I believe we disagree on the source of hypocrisy.

Kaepernick isn't playing for a team PURELY because of his peaceful protests last year. He is a better QB than other starters. Meanwhile, rapists and murderers are currently playing on NFL teams. Goes to show that NFL owners will hire rapists and murderers but not.....peaceful protesters? And Trump doesn't complain and call these rapists and murderers the REAL "sons of bitches?" Ultimate hypocrisy.

2: "Openly disrespecting his country over fake police brutality"

Is that a joke? Kaepernick plainly said he was kneeling to use his platform as a pro QB to bring attention to institutionalized racism and police brutality in the United States. (Re: police brutality being fake.....Look at any statistics or studies ... https://vittana.org/42-shocking-police-brutality-s... )

It is telling that you think bringing attention to those issues is "disrespecting the country." Are you admitting that this country was founded on those negative ideals? (Namely, slavery, race-based violence and oppression) Are you admitting that it is disrespectful to "your version" of the USA to bring attention to racism and violence?

3: "I'm pretty sure the majority of America thinks these babies are in the wrong" Great generalization, honestly who knows. NOT THAT IT MATTERS. When the US had slavery, don't you think the majority thought that it was OK (otherwise it would have been outlawed sooner)?? The majority of the US does not know that freedom of speech is protected in the 1st amendments to the Bill of Rights. We have inalienable rights, and it doesn't matter if people think they are right or wrong or are clueless.

4: Your bitterness toward gifted athletes is obvious and sad. Your saying, "Would love to see them try and function in society if we didn't pay them so much to run around" displays your obvious racism and misunderstanding of lower income neighborhoods (where young kids think the only way out of the ghetto is through music/hip hop or sports). And if you can't see that, you are a completely lost cause...

5: I agree that coaches can make a set of rules and fire anyone who doesn't follow them. Obviously, one rule can't be "suck my dick or you're fired" but requiring players to stand for the star spangled banner is completely reasonable! However....there is a market for talent! You understand that I am sure!!!

If my CEO required everyone to wear tuxedos everyday and lowered our dinner stipend from $25 to $2 (fully legal)....we would quit and find another bank. Our current bank would go BK. The market right now doesn't require players to stand. And it doesn't look like it will anytime soon.

  1. Kaepernick isn't playing because people detest his unpatriotic, arrogant and misinformed ass. He has a right to kneel during football games (notice how no one stopped him) and viewers have a right to change the channel. Welcome to freedom shit head. Freedom doesn't mean freedom from consequences. If I act like a piece of shit at work I would likely get fired as well, and it would have nothing to do with my race.
  2. There is no institutionalized racism in the U.S. African Americans are granted institutionalized privilege, actually. They literally get jobs and go to the best schools specifically because of their race. Institutionalized racism is Jim Crow, Apartheid, etc. Also, careful with bullshit statistics. Correlation is not causation and I could, if I wanted to, spam this post with links that statistically dispute your assertion.

That said, there is racism in the country, the same way that there's racism in every country. You're just not aware of it because you're an ignorant American. They used to throw bananas at Thierry Henry. Could you imagine the outcry if that happened here in the states?

  1. You clearly don't understand the first amendment or the bill of rights. This has nothing to do with either of them..

The rest of your post is just incoherent rambling, moralizing and virtue signaling, void of any actual argument or reason. Saying that a majority of pro athletes wouldn't be rich if it wasn't for pro sports isn't racist. It's blatantly fucking obvious. They have minimal education, many of them have substance abuse issues, the list goes on...

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Sep 26, 2017

@TNA you're right about the difference in treatment athletes gets versus normal folk. Stubenville football players raped a girl and got away with nothing but a slap on the wrist, Michael Vick was forgiven and treated like a God after his sentence, Stanford swimmer got away with rape and had women who supported him, etc etc

Collin Kappernick is a punk and failed football player who tries too damn hard to play the victim card.

And how could we forget this?

Colin Kap Socks

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Sep 26, 2017

Happens endlessly in college as well.

Police do over step and there are bad cops. But the whole BLM movement loses credibility when they stand on falsehoods ("hands up, don't shoot") or defend criminals who fought cops, grabbed for their gun and got shot.

Plenty of bad apples to highlight, yet they only focus on the statistically insignificant number of blue on blue violence.

Sep 29, 2017

How can you call these people "clowns who get paid to throw a ball around"? They are at the top 0.1% of what they do and it's definitely more competitive than finance.

Sep 30, 2017
TNA:

These clowns who get paid to throw a ball around, who've had special treatment by the police their whole life, are now openly disrespecting this country over fake police brutality.

Coming from a Florida fan, I agree entirely with the first half of this sentiment. There has been so much bullshit that Florida players (and I'm sure other school's players) have gotten away with.

The second half I don't. There are many instances of police brutality in this country, even if a lot of the BLM / ANTIFA choose to violently protest obviously justified police shootings. See Tatyana Hargrove:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-...
I believe that they have the right to protest however they see fit and, if Goodell or their owners see fit, they could be released from their contract. Their protest is not disruptive to the sporting environment, so I don't see why everyone's making such a big deal about it.

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Sep 25, 2017

I'm one of the more ardent Trump supporters around, but it cost him political capital to get involved in this. People don't want the president commenting on their bread and circuses, even Trump supporters. All this did was get him more enemies from people who would've otherwise not even cared.

As for the national anthem, I think it's shitty that some entitled football player wouldn't show respect and stand, but it's his right to do so. I mainly watch baseball and hockey, where this shit doesn't happen, so I don't really have a dog in the fight.

"Work ethic, work ethic" - Vince Vaughn
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Sep 25, 2017

Do you think all the cops, firemen, veterans, etc fault trump for calling this shit out?

It's insidious. It wasn't Trump making the NFL political. If anything, this just solidifies his base. Im glad someone is speaking out about this shit.

Sep 25, 2017

I think those aforementioned people are already making their voices heard by boycotting the NFL (have you seen the ratings recently?). With declining ratings, increased awareness about concussions and player safety, and millennials being less and less inclined to pay for a cable subscription to watch sports, it's likely that the NFL is going to feel the silent majority's wrath anyways. And they deserve it. They're basically a monopoly (how does the NFL doesn't violate antitrust laws is beyond me). They think they can bully the hardworking people of this country and expect they'll still show up to games and buy jerseys.

I just don't think it's a matter for the president to get involved in.

"Work ethic, work ethic" - Vince Vaughn
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Sep 25, 2017

Nope, this actually strenghtens Trump. He has the balls to take on one of the country's biggest and most influential institutions, the NFL, and says what the majority of fans already think, they hate it when players kneel during the anthem. I believe a strong majority like that he called the NFL out. Take a quick look at any NFL team's message board, the vast majority are against the kneeling.

Trump has furthered his patriotic platform, with opponents now seen as being against the American flag. Good luck with that.

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Sep 25, 2017

Unsurprisingly, the people that are known Trump supporters on this forum say "OMG THIS IS GREAT" and the people who don't support Trump think this was totally unnecessary. You're delusional if you think he won anyone over with this nonsense. It's a long time till 2020 but I think he's a one-term prez.

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Sep 25, 2017

It's political grandstanding at the highest level, at the cost of furthering the divide between citizens within our nation.

Has the balls to take on the NFL? What did he actually accomplish here? The owners can't make their players stand, even if they wanted to. This issue was slowly falling out of the headlines but now, it's fucking supercharged with his base having their subjective opinions validated as "patriotic" by the president, and minorities rising against because their favorite sports superstar (e.g. LeBron, Durant) is publicly slamming the POTUS to millions on social media.

As Bob mentioned, there are tactful, graceful ways of dealing with social issues. This is not one of them.

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Sep 26, 2017
m8:

Nope, this actually strenghtens Trump. He has the balls to take on one of the country's biggest and most influential institutions, the NFL, and says what the majority of fans already think, they hate it when players kneel during the anthem. I believe a strong majority like that he called the NFL out. Take a quick look at any NFL team's message board, the vast majority are against the kneeling.

Trump has furthered his patriotic platform, with opponents now seen as being against the American flag. Good luck with that.

Trump is a buffoon in many ways, and he was pretty much my last choice during the 2016 GOP primary. Having said that, Trump is great at baiting the liberals, getting them to overreact, thereby exposing their true colors as those whose identity hinges upon racial/gender/sexual orientation identity rather than as Americans. Look at how liberals went nuts after Trump's confederate monuments comments, and people actually started defacing statues of Lincoln and Jefferson.

Sep 25, 2017

I do find it funny that the same people that protest removal of confederate traitor statues get worked up over someone "disrespecting" the flag.

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Sep 25, 2017

It would be wonderful if you understood history.

You should also try and understand the word traitor, specifically in this context.

And I'm pretty sure it isnt Judy the south that is pissed about this.

Sep 25, 2017

Oh please, TNA the US history scholar. I understand hypocrisy and mental gymnastics. Throw MS at me all you want TNA.

I think it's stupid that people take Trump's bait all the time. He lives off controversy and race baiting. But I guess as president you can't ignore him.

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Sep 25, 2017

This was a small and largely isolated protest by a few players until The Donald decided to throw red meat to his followers and condemn these guys. It was a non-story but our president couldn't help but get involved, anything that isn't compliant with his beliefs is due for attack. He has now spurred a movement where even OWNERS THAT DONATED TO HIS CAMPAIGN ARE STANDING AGAINST HIM. Tom Brady, he of the not-so-hidden MAGA hat, personally came out against his comments. I love this country (in general) and will continue to stand up for the anthem but I have no problem with what these guys are doing. The justice system and the way it treats minorities is fundamentally fucked up. You can possibly say it's not due to race, that the justice system is slanted against the poor, but minorities are disproportionately poor. To make it worse our president is completely callous and just doesn't give a fuck, he hired a "tough on crime" attorney general that has now encouraged justice departments around the country to enforce the toughest possible minimum sentencing standards, has encouraged police to be more "rough", and has advocated stop-and-frisk which was found to be applied racially and unconstitutionally. In any case, this is another situation where our president took his time to address a minor issue with zero tact or class, as expected.

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Sep 25, 2017

They have a right to take a knee and I have a right to not support it. They're permitted to exercise their rights but don't impede my freedom to exercise mine.

Two weeks ago some guy at a BWW in California turned off the anthem and blamed a fake corporate policy to justify it. That's the stuff that annoys me: people thinking their own rights supersede the rights of others.

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Sep 25, 2017
Managerette:

They have a right to take a knee and I have a right to not support it. They're permitted to exercise their rights but don't impede my freedom to exercise mine.

couldn't have summed it up any better.

Sep 25, 2017

On one hand Colin started a fire. On the other, the Donald made it bigger. Edit: it'll blow over by next week. But Trump being petty will always be here.

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Sep 25, 2017

It's a beautiful thing when millionaires who have a lot to lose by standing for something do it anyway. The disenfranchised don't have much of a voice in society so it is always very good when those with a voice speak out, despite the perils associated. Let's bring everything out into the open, sweeping stuff under the rug is what got us here.

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Sep 25, 2017

By blow over, do you mean the players will stop staying in the locker rooms/kneeling in a week? I'm not convinced that's gunna happen. If the players keep protesting, it's not gunna blow over. There's way too big of a hard on for the flag for it to ever blow over if the protests continue.

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Sep 25, 2017
DeepLearning:

By blow over, do you mean the players will stop staying in the locker rooms/kneeling in a week? I'm not convinced that's gunna happen. If the players keep protesting, it's not gunna blow over. There's way too big of a hard on for the flag for it to ever blow over if the protests continue.

I think all football fans really care about is fantasy football stats and showing who's got the bigger c***. Maybe in a week some will protest, but whole teams? I doubt that. I'm saying that Trump will move on to other things once he's bored with this.

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Sep 25, 2017

I think the point that most people are missing (not whether kneeling is disrespectful to the flag, etc.) is that you never have the right to use your professional position (while on the job) to advocate for a political position outside that of which your boss explicitly endorses and supports. Otherwise, they should be fire for cause.

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Sep 25, 2017

Look, this guys is an autocrat. Fuck Trump and his pussy ass sensibilities. That's the real reason teams protested. The NFL probably ok'd it once this orange prick decided he was going to interfere in their business. Fuck bitch ass man of a president.

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Sep 25, 2017

My thoughts:

  1. The players have the right to engage in peaceful protest.
  2. Those in the audience have the right to boo the players bending the knee, and no, it does not make them racist, contrary to what liberals think.
  3. Trump should not have made this a bigger issue, but having said that, it looks like liberals once again fell into his trap.
  4. Kaepernick and others are wrong about police shootings of black men, as their thesis is not supported by empirical data.
  5. Although racism still exists and will always exist, there is virtually no government sanctioned systemic racism, as there was back before the Civil Rights movement. Much of what liberal decry as "racism" is simply conservative policy positions on issues that happen to disproportionately impact minorities (i.e., crime, affirmative action, school vouchers, illegal immigration).
  6. As a conservative, I look forward to the Democrats incorporating this into their campaign platform in 2020.
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Sep 25, 2017

Please provide evidence on (4). Of course racism isn't government sanctioned but the application of criminal law in this country is applied in a racist manner, which is what people have issue with, so I don't really get your point on (5) other than to distract and regurgitate boilerplate rhetoric.

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Sep 25, 2017
BobTheBaker:

Please provide evidence on (4). Of course racism isn't government sanctioned, the application of criminal law in this country is applied in a racist manner though, which is what people have issue with so I don't really get your point on (5).

Heather MacDonald has done excellent work on the issue of police shootings and race. According to the Washington Post, police fatally shot 36 unarmed black men, nationwide, compared to 31 unarmed white men. In many of those cases, the black men tried to grab the officer's gun and/or were assaulting them. So the number of truly innocent non-hostile unarmed black men who were shot dead by cops, is very tiny.

The more important point, and one that is politically incorrect, is the following. When judging police shootings or other negative police encounters with black men, it's important to note that blacks commit crimes at a disproportionately higher rate than other races. In the nation's 75 largest counties, where blacks make up 15% of the population, they made up 62% of all robbery defendants, 57% of murder, and 45% of assault. In NYC, blacks are 23% of the city's population but committed 75% of all shootings and 70% of robberies. Given this data, there is no evidence that cops are out on a systemic rampage to kill black men, and it explains why there are so many unfortunate encounters between cops and black men to begin with.

Second, when people express anger about cops getting off, they seem to forget that those cops were acquitted after a jury trial (yes, there were blacks in those juries), in which the jury heard evidence from both sides and carefully deliberated. In the United States, one is innocent until proven guilty; the burden of proof is on the prosecution that the defendant knowingly and willingly committed cold-blooded murder. It's a high bar, as it should be, since a guilty verdict will mean the person spends a long time in prison. And that bar is even higher when it comes to cops due to the dangerous nature of their jobs. Do liberals believe that we should do away with jury trials? Do they think the jury should be all black if the victim is black, and the cop is white? The argument here doesn't make sense to me.

Finally, as for sentencing, there is indeed a racial disparity. But in a 2012 paper, a law and economics professor studied a sample of 58,000 federal cases and concluded that 83% of the sentencing disparity between whites and blacks can be explained by differences in criminal record, arrest offense, gender, age, and location. A report by the U.S. Commission on Sentencing also warned that one cannot conclude that this disparity is due to racism.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspir...

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Sep 25, 2017
BobTheBaker:

but the application of criminal law in this country is applied in a racist manner, which is what people have issue with,

You have absolutely no evidence for this whatsoever.

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Sep 25, 2017
Rufus1234:

- Although racism still exists and will always exist, there is virtually no government sanctioned systemic racism, as there was back before the Civil Rights movement. Much of what liberal decry as "racism" is simply conservative policy positions on issues that happen to disproportionately impact minorities (i.e., crime, affirmative action, school vouchers, illegal immigration).

I love how you tried to paint the racism as just happenstance lol.

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Sep 25, 2017

It is interesting though that the irony of the response by both sides is lost. In the context of free speech (let's ignore the professional setting argument) the liberal and conservative positions are completely reversed when compared to free speech on campus. Further proves that people will view every issue through their core beliefs cognitive dissonance be damned.

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Sep 25, 2017

I'm just really looking forward to seeing what America's Team does tonight, and if Jerry does anything if someone doesn't stand. My guess is everyone stands with locked arms.

Sep 25, 2017

It will be interesting to see what the broader implications are of this whole thing. The NFL will definitely lose viewers/ tickets and thus lower revenue. Maybe it will impact crazy ass college football complex where teams are building bigger and better athlete dorms/ work out rooms, cafeterias, etc. and eventually blow up the whole college bubble altogether.

Sep 25, 2017

Just read that Villanueva's jersey became the best selling jersey in the NFL after he came out for the Steelers.

I would be willing to bet his jersey sells more than any Kaepernick jersey. Imagine that...an offensive lineman more popular than a backup QB.

Sep 25, 2017

1.) This is over a 24 hour period
2.) https://www.sbnation.com/2017/8/1/16074976/nfl-col...

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Sep 25, 2017

I know. I am betting that this trend continues. More OL jerseys will be sold than Kaepernick ever sold.

Sep 25, 2017
George_Banker:

Just read that Villanueva's jersey became the best selling jersey in the NFL after he came out for the Steelers.

I would be willing to bet his jersey sells more than any Kaepernick jersey. Imagine that...an offensive lineman more popular than a backup QB.

God bless Villanueva. A great American. A true patriot.

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Sep 25, 2017

in my opinion, kneeling for the national anthem is actually counter-productive for them. They should have wrapped themselves in an American flag, and went around saying "I love this country and the freedom it stands for, but please help celebrate freedom by acknowledging a problem plaguing the African American community - police brutality."

By kneeling, you are just driving yourself farther apart from the people that you're trying to gain support from. Instead of connecting with the American people, they are actually just doing something that many find disrespectful. That's not a great way to get people to see your point of view....

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Sep 25, 2017

agree. we seem to be talking more about whether or not it's offensive and not actually talking about the issue it was intended to address.

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Sep 25, 2017

The problem with this is protests are meant to make people feel uncomfortable, they are meant to be divisive (exclude those who are against your cause no matter what), and they are meant to draw attention to the issue so that the true undecideds can do their own research and (hopefully) join your side. I would be willing to bet more people are researching and becoming informed as a result of these protests.

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Sep 25, 2017
thebrofessor:

while I'll always stand and put my hand over my heart for the Anthem, I believe real freedom is the right to do whatever you want, so long as you don't directly hurt another. some countries don't have that luxury, they are told to get in line or get out, and are fed propaganda and forced to take place in watching parades brainwashing them into believing how great their country is. what makes America great is that we have the freedom to disagree. where does this leave us? unfortunately, I think it leaves us more divided than united, because people either have the opinion "I ought to have the freedom to protest" or they have the opinion "any protest of the nat'l anthem or the US is disrespectful and ought not to be allowed." what's odd is that it seems both sides want elements of free speech removed (be it milo coming to Cal to speak or kaepernick taking a knee during the Star Spangled Banner). You can't have your cake and eat it too. the American thought police seems to be growing tentacles on both sides of the aisle.

what say you, WSO?

I don't think it's possible for me to more strongly disagree with what you've written here. Literally no one--not one person in America that I'm aware of--has said that the NFL players should not be allowed to protest under penalty from government. This is an entirely fabricated position that the Left has concocted in order to try to gain the moral high ground on this. At most what people have said is that the NFL players 1) shouldn't disrespect the nation by protesting during the national anthem, 2) if the players do disrespect the country then some fans may quit supporting the players and/or the team.

What the Left doesn't get is that just because you have the legal right to protest doesn't mean the opposition has a legal obligation to sit back and take it.

What I find the most galling about the BLM movement is that it started based on a complete lie--the Michael Brown incident of "hands up/don't shoot". Even the Obama administration had to admit that this was a fallacious account of the situation. The fact that a despicable criminal thug is the linchpin of the entire BLM movement is appalling and rather ironic.

Sep 25, 2017

1.) We are discussing Trump's response to this, our president, not the average Joe blow's response.
2.) Does it really matter how BLM started? What matters is their grievances are legitimate and need to be addressed. Focusing on how it started is a pointless distraction.
3.) Please link the evidence that Mike Brown was a "despicable criminal thug".

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Sep 25, 2017
BobTheBaker:

1.) We are discussing Trump's response to this, our president, not the average Joe blow's response.
2.) Does it really matter how BLM started? What matters is their grievances are legitimate and need to be addressed. Focusing on how it started is a pointless distraction.
3.) Please link the evidence that Mike Brown was a "despicable criminal thug".

Uhh, there was video of Michael Brown, minutes before his encounter with the police, attacking a convenient store worker in an attempted robbery. His death is literally zero loss to America. F*ck Michael Brown and his supporters.

The grievances of BLM are bullshit. In liberal Democrat-controlled cities, black people are disproportionately harassed by police when it comes to being pulled over by cops for ridiculous reasons, but there is no evidence of systemic police violence toward black people. A complete bastardization of the facts is how we have gotten to the point where police brutality toward blacks is accepted as a fact. The reality is, police encounters with black people are far higher because crime is far higher in the black community. More white people are killed by police every year than black people, but proportionally more black people are killed, but violent crime and black/police encounters are disproportionately higher, so you'd expect more violent encounters with the police.

The reality is, BLM is a scapegoat movement meant to justify the complete and embarrassing failure of the American black community. Its goal it to remove the political focus off the topic of high poverty, destroyed families, high unemployment, high crime rates, and terrible schools in the Democrat-run black communities nationwide. Politicians and political leaders give validation to the despicable, intellectually bankrupt BLM movement because it galvanizes their base against a common enemy and distracts from 80 years of Democrat party failure.

Fact: more black people are murdered in Chicago each year than die at the hands of police nationwide--by a wide margin. BLM doesn't care about this--they want to scapegoat the police to misdirect from their own life's failures.

Sep 25, 2017
BobTheBaker:

2.) Does it really matter how BLM started? What matters is their grievances are legitimate and need to be addressed. Focusing on how it started is a pointless distraction.

A legitimate grievance is not license for chaos.

Sep 25, 2017

"I don't think it's possible for me to more strongly disagree with what you've written here"

and I support your right to do so. carry on bro.

Sep 25, 2017

I wonder if @TNA and @BobTheBaker will be in this thread? Nah...

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Sep 25, 2017

I dropped truth and the salt factory followed.

NaCL rich thread fo sho.

Sep 25, 2017

this escalated quickly

Sep 25, 2017

Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from criticism. Yeah, you're free to act like a delusional degenerate and I'm free to call you a disgraceful piece of shit. Welcome to freedom.

That said, is anyone really surprised? The NFL has long been a corrupt league, draining billions from tax payers, comprised largely of thugs, drug addicts, violent offenders, wife beaters, etc. It's an immoral league with immoral players and immoral owners who are engaging in immoral behavior.

Do you know what would happen if Italian footballers sat during their national anthem? What would happen if Australian rugby players sat during theirs? Hell would fucking break loose, and our athletes have the gall to do it on foreign soil. What an embarrassment. At the same time, it will accelerate the death of the NFL, something that I have been patiently waiting for for quite some time.

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Sep 25, 2017

As long as this shit doesn't work its way into the next season of Ballers, I really don't care what the players do.

Sep 25, 2017

I was thinking maybe The Rock will get pulled over and beaten because they assume he stole his ride. The problem is someone would have to think The Rock stole that nasty ass white Range Rover. I don't know why anyone would drive something so ugly if they could afford otherwise. With that being said, that's a woman's vehicle so I guess I can see it.

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Sep 26, 2017

In season 2 he drives a bentley SUV actually

Sep 25, 2017

Lol it's amazing how the right criticizes the left for being triggered when this is the biggest triggering I've ever seen. Republican voters are a special type of snowflake. But congrats on getting distracted from the fact your idol had the Russians do his dirty work to get elected. I'm surprised TNA took time out of his busy day worshiping Trump to argue in this thread.

But that being said, conservatives have every right to react as their feelings dictate when somebody dares defy the civic religion. It only exposes conservatism as the child-like ideology it truly is.

I will get showered with monkey shit for this post but I don't give a fuck because at the end of the day "republican=good democrat=bad" will never be a valid argument. If your politics follow the logic that 5 year olds have I will never acknowledge your positions as legitimate.

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Sep 25, 2017

Triggered - warnings at school when a revered book or historic story might have something offensive in it.

This is what the right bitches about. Academic censorship.

NFL players sitting through the national anthem isn't triggering. It is offensive. It isn't "triggering" when someone throws bacon at a Mosque. It isn't "triggering" when someone burns a flag.

Your entire post is shit. Millionaire children who play a game for a living, who have had privileged experiences from cops the second they showed a talent running around a 120 year field, sitting and disrespecting the national anthem, to protect "police brutality" is insulting, not triggering.

You know, during the great recession, the rich hid their wealthy. They contributed to civic society. They tried to help the common man. Because they realized the backlash.

In 2017, the wealthy show open contempt for the people who run this country. Go watch Mad Max. Who runs Barter Town bro.

You want to take a stand against police brutality? Fine. Pick a better venue, a better time. You piss on this country during prime time TV, as a rich fucker who plays a game, you better expect blow back.

Sep 27, 2017
TNA:

Triggered - warnings at school when a revered book or historic story might have something offensive in it.

This is what the right bitches about. Academic censorship.

Ah okay throw up the smokescreen as usual.

NFL players sitting through the national anthem isn't triggering. It is offensive. It isn't "triggering" when someone throws bacon at a Mosque. It isn't "triggering" when someone burns a flag.

Hahaha ok little snowflake. You throwing a hissy fit throughout this thread is because you're offended by some dudes taking a knee is not being triggered at all. Jesus man you're delusional in your partisanship. You can't for one second get out of the mindset that republican/conservative=good democrat/liberal=bad. So Trump mocking McCain for being captured in Vietnam = good? Okay man. Just admit you're a triggered little snowflake and everything Trump does is great in your eyes.

Your entire post is shit.

And you have the politics of a 5 year old girl crying to your daddy. Everything daddy does is great, right?

Millionaire children who play a game for a living, who have had privileged experiences from cops the second they showed a talent running around a 120 year field, sitting and disrespecting the national anthem, to protect "police brutality" is insulting, not triggering.

Yes okay we get it. When conservatives do things, it's justified. When liberals do things, it's bad. I get your worldview. Everything about your side is great, everything about the other side is bad. There are no problems in this country at all caused by authority figures (except when Obama was President, right?). Etc etc. Can you admit you're triggered though?

You know, during the great recession, the rich hid their wealthy. They contributed to civic society. They tried to help the common man. Because they realized the backlash.

In 2017, the wealthy show open contempt for the people who run this country. Go watch Mad Max. Who runs Barter Town bro.

I can't even believe an adult would write this nonsense. I can't make sense of what your point is.

You want to take a stand against police brutality? Fine. Pick a better venue, a better time. You piss on this country during prime time TV, as a rich fucker who plays a game, you better expect blow back.

People are free to react as they feel to it. If they want to go on social media and pretend like they're going to boycott the NFL to impress their fellow right wing zealots and show everyone else how triggered they are then by all means they should do that. They'll all be back watching football this week after their daddy Trump delivers the next smokescreen to keep their minds occupied.

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Sep 29, 2017

What blowback? lol, this whole issue will be a thing of the past in 2 weeks tops, and everyone will tune back in to NFL games as usual. onto the next outrage!

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Sep 25, 2017

I was discussing this with an MD who grew up in the 60's and 70's. He was reminiscing that the prevailing attitude towards the National Anthem, soldiers, the American flag, basically anything patriotic during the time of the USA's involvement in Vietnam was absolutely contemptuous. At Kent State University in 1970, unarmed college students were shot and killed by the Ohio National Guard while peacefully protesting. This event sparked national outrage leading to protests all over the country in which more students were killed. It is a slippery slope between vilifying citizens for exercising their freedom of speech (or protest) and events like the Kent State shooting.

The national anthem is not played before concerts or plays. Why do we demand that athletes in particular demonstrate their patriotism on the national stage? Furthermore, if we are going to demand it of them, then who are we to disparage them if they choose to exercise their rights as American citizens in that setting? If I recall, when the cast of Hamilton delivered their message to Mike Pence, they were widely praised and applauded for their efforts.

I did not grow up in the Vietnam War era USA. I grew up in the post-9/11 USA. I grew up in an era when the citizens of this country (myself included) were galvanized into patriotism and supporting a "War on Terror" that has lasted longer than American involvement in the Vietnam War. I do not necessarily agree with what the players did nor how they did it, but I absolutely believe that they are within their rights and respect the courage they showed in exercising those rights.

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Sep 25, 2017

Rights aside, what the players are doing diminishes the entertainment value of the game and serves as a polarizing distraction. The players are idiotic if they think this does anything but hurt their job security and undermine the success of the sport. With that being said, I played football in school but I absolutely loathe watching it so I could give a fuck if it gets replaced by Andy Griffith reruns :D.

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Sep 25, 2017

Jesus this thread got hijacked.

This is simple:

Should the players take a knee....It's a free country

Does that mean they are free of non government consequences, no! Emphatically! Can a private institution fire player"employees" because they are hurting business? - YES.

Are they hurting business, YES. My god, People watch football because it is an escape from everyday drudgery of life. Sports are supposed to represent the nobility of man and our best intentions, physically we but our efforts into this instead of war. The minute you have a player paid $1 million kneeling for a flag that represents the freedom that makes his act "safe" or "righteous" you get utter foolishness.

How silly and childish is it to rebel against the best symbol of freedom that the world has. How trivial is it taking a knee?! It is literally the LEAST you can do if you support a cause, sending thoughts and prayers would probably do more good.

Here I am typing this post during a decent game. It is infuriating.

Why do entertainers believe they are entitled to an opinion, everyone in the NFL expect Ryan Fitzpatrick is an uneducated asshole who I would bet doesn't take 1 second to even debate the issues themselves, they just hear the argument and echo it in an attempt to stay relevant and appear smart.

Sep 26, 2017
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