Taking A Break

There's a lot of talk about how analysts and associates get "burned out" doing the daily tasks that come along with banking. Is it possible for junior-level team members to do sabbaticals for a certain period of time to pursue other interests and then return to banking if they want to? I'm NOT talking about taking two years to do business school; rather, taking several years to travel or start orphanages in Africa or play minor league baseball.

Caveat emptor, I have not even started my SA stint yet but I know deep down that finance isn't a burning passion of mine (I mean, is it anyone's?). It seems like a lot of people get sucked into investment banking even though they don't truly love it. While I like the money and the people you get to meet, I know there are other dreams I want to pursue but I would like to consider returning to banking at some point later. I'm self-admittedly somewhat of an idealist so bare with me if the question is rather lame.

Sample Career Plan:

FT Analyst at BB for two years --> travel, do "normal" work, peace corps, non-profit (NOT business school or anything finance related) for three to four years --> return to banking?

Possible or impossible? I'm under the impression that if the door closes, it closes forever. Thanks guys.

 
Best Response

I've thought about this as well, although I probably wouldn't take "several" years, maybe just one or two.

I don't think you can say that the door remains closed. Obviously if you were able to re-interview, you'd have to have some damn good answers to questions like, "Where the hell have you been for the last 4 years?" and "Aren't you a little old to be an analyst?"

People on WSO generalise so many things, but in your case, I would say if you really want the time out and then really want to get back in, I would rate your chances as pretty good.

Don't know how your theoretical move would go down with BB's, most of whom seem to have a fairly strict hierarchy and where the amount of time spent at each grade is fairly inflexible.

 

I know this isn't really the answer you are looking for, but you could always work as an analyst for two years, go off and follow your passions for a few years, THEN go to business school. Business school adcoms eat up those "live the dream" kind of stories, and the IB experience would give you the necessary business credibility—you would have a good shot at H/S/W or at least a T10 school. After that, you should have no trouble getting back into IB as an Associate.

 

Agree with AltESV, if you go the b-school route, you should have no problem. Without b-school, I think it will be very difficult (though nothing's impossible) to get back to banking.

Author of www.IBankingFAQ.com
 

I'm curious, just how easily can a top 10 mba student get an associate gig in banking at one of the BBs. Assuming he is capable and moderately intelligent since he got accepted into the program in the first place.

I was told by a Harvard MBA that everyone he knew that wanted banking, got it. Is this likely to be an exaggeration or the truth?

I realize that pe jobs are more in demand by the top candidates but just how hard is to get into banking from the Wharton, Harvard and Columbias of the world.

 
CDN:
I'm curious, just how easily can a top 10 mba student get an associate gig in banking at one of the BBs. Assuming he is capable and moderately intelligent since he got accepted into the program in the first place.

I was told by a Harvard MBA that everyone he knew that wanted banking, got it. Is this likely to be an exaggeration or the truth?

I realize that pe jobs are more in demand by the top candidates but just how hard is to get into banking from the Wharton, Harvard and Columbias of the world.

Not hard.

If you're from H/W/S and you want BB IBD, you'll likely get it. If you're interested in finance, at the very worst, you'll end up at a decent boutique.

At the rest of MBA business schools ">M7, it's similar, but more people at boutique and/or other finance roles.

Overall, it's not nearly as hard as getting in from undergrad. In fact, if you have prior finance experience, you will likely bag multiple offers.

 

Most here will probably disagree with me, but if you aren't passionate about finance, maybe you should consider doing what you're really passionate about instead of IB. Life's too short. If you're smart, and you want to do IB later in life, you will be able to get there. You might not get another chance to play minor-league baseball, travel extensively or do orphanages in Africa.

 

IBPEHFVC -

While I do see your point, I think it's clear that the skill set you develop and the networks you create in banking are very valuable, regardless of whether you're "passionate" about finance or not. Don't get me wrong: I'm certainly interested in investment banking and I know that spending two years as an analyst will be a really great experience. I just don't know if I can sustain it long enough to be one of those lifetime bankers.

I figured it's a relatively safe and smart game plan: start in investment banking, do it for two years, and reevaluate life. If at this point I am still capable and interested enough to keep doing it, I'll keep doing it. If I decide after my two years as an analyst that I want to do something else, I'll do something else. I just want to know if the door remains closed if I leave banking. But, according to posters, an MBA can open that door again.

 

1) If you are not passionate about finance, STAY AWAY FROM INVESTMENT BANKING.

You'll thank me later. :)

2) I think you can do what you did and get back into banking, but you'll probably need to go back to business school first. Otherwise it would just raise questions of, "What the hell have you been doing for the past 4 years?"

Here's what I would recommend: do your summer analyst internship, see if you like it/how it goes and then decide if you actually want to do 2 years of banking.

If not, don't do it. Yes, you get a safety net from doing it... and I guess you could argue it's a "great experience" but I would have serious issues recommending that you do banking if your interests lie elsewhere.

 

It's not possible to second Dosk's point more emphatically... you need to be passionate about finance and the markets to put up with all of the crap in ib. Otherwise, it's just not worth it -- not the network, not the "skills" (most/all of which you can gain elsewhere anyway).

Go directly with what you're passionate about (see Jonathan Knee's editorial in the WSJ this week as well as his Rilke references -- both of which are subjects of other posts on the board)

The internship recommendation is spot on.. you should have multiple days during the summer when you're car'ing it home at 4am (or not at all) and asking yourself if this is worth it. If you love finance, it is... otherwise... not so much

 

Whoever says that they have a "passion" for finance is full of crap. There's a very fine line between having a passion for something and having a deep interest in something; some of you seem to be playing hopscotch with that line a little too much. Passion for baseball? Yes. Passion for spirituality? Yes. Passion for finance? Give me a break - you're not a machine.

As long as you are interested in banking, you're good to go.

 
partyingtoohard:
Whoever says that they have a "passion" for finance is full of crap.
You are so freaking wrong. Why do people generalize finance with money only? Here are some examples: My friend "I want to be middle school teacher" => Everyone is like, OMG you must like kids a lot, you'll be a great teacher "I want to be a doctor" => WOW, very respectable, you must like helping and curing other people "I want to be a vet" => You probably like animals, and enjoy dealing with them But when I reply with, "I want to work in Finance, preferably investment banking" => I always hear something along the lines, "Oh, you just like money and want to make a ton of them, huh?"
 

gomes3pc said it best:

I'd ding any kid who told me they have a 'passion for finance.' That's like saying you have a 'passion for calculus.' I'm sorry, but nobody loves finance. They love the oppportunities that can be had from working in finance. Obviously don't say "I want this job because I want to get PAID!" but don't also make it out like you'd take UNICEF salary to do S&T. That's just disingenuous.

http://wallstreetoasis.com/forums/is-passion-for-finance-enough

 

i'm disappointed in people hating on "passion"---its just semantics . . .

"I have a passion for finance" TRANSLATION: "Making money is like hell yeah"

"I have a passion for public service" TRANSLATION: "Power is like hell yeah"

"I have a passion for non-profits" TRANSLATION: "Living third world is like hell yeah"

It's all good y'aaallllllllll . . .

To the OP: Go out into the world, get the idealist/romantic out of your system---Then come back and be ready to rock.

 

To the OP: Slowdown! You haven't even started your SA stint and you're trying to plan the next 10 years which includes taking the FT offer and then even coming back to banking later... Why don't you just do your summer and figure out if you want to do banking at all? It's like planning out your next 3 car purchases without even taking any of them for a test drive.

To answer you question - Yes, you can come back. In a job market like today's, you'd need to be coming out of b-school. In a job market like a couple years ago, you could probably do it without but may end up at a lower tier bank.

 

There are a few guys who seem genuinely interested in finance however for the majority of juniors I don't think this is the case at all. I think people are generally more interested in the sector they cover or the actual process of doing a deal (I'm talking M&A or an IPO here), ok not the crap daily tasks but rather the big picture of what is going on.

As for the op's question, yes at least when the market is good mid level staff (ie guys who have been there 5 years or so) can and sometimes do take sabbaticals. They are usually 6months-1yr, no longer than that. However these day's you'd have to be pretty crazy to do so.

 

From a practical perspective, the "Back to Banking" (B2B) route really depends on the state of the economy.

When deal flow is very strong and banks are desperate to hire people (usually in the early stages of a boom when they realize they've underhired during the recession and are therefore understaffed), it shouldn't be a problem especially if you have prior experience (which they will value). So if you did your 2 years as an analyst and then left for a few years, they may not automatically make you an associate, but may make you a 3rd year depending on when you got hired mid-cycle. Or if you did your 3 years, they may not hire you as a 2nd year associate, but as a 1st year, depending on how desperate the bank is in filling the spots. Of course, you will be competing against the other analysts/associates who are also looking to "upgrade" to a better bank (i.e. midmarket folks looking to switch, getting the opportunity to move to Goldman, etc.). Nevertheless, it's certainly do-able if deal flow is very strong.

However, when times are rough (like they are now and going forward for at least 1 - 2 years), it's going to be tough simply because they are shedding staff and whoever is left is clinging on for dear life.

What's more important though is that once you leave banking, it's not a matter of whether you can go back, but whether you are even willing to go back. Most folks just aren't willing to go back to the grind - no matter what the money is (and when it comes down to it, it's about money - banking is a money culture).

Even the ex-analysts I knew back in b-school that ended up going back to banking -- most weren't exactly thrilled - it was what they "settled" on because they either had no idea what else to do, or they couldn't get the PE job they wanted.

And not everyone loathes or leaves it -- some suffer in silence, others grin and bear it and stick it out until they're directors/MDs -- in fact, most of your MDs may not be thrilled with how their career ended up (if they are honest with you, there probably will be a lot of "should've" "could've" "would've" stories about how they wish they took more risk, did something more worthwhile but less "lucrative" when they were younger, etc.) but they aren't exactly miserable either - they've sort of lived with the compromise they've made with the imperfect and messy choices they made -- living with compromise is the quintessential reality of modern adult life. They certainly feel "comfortable" with all the money they've made that could provide for their family, but they're not exactly thrilled with the cost of getting there -- so it's not a "love it" or "hate it" thing, but a lot of mixed feelings. And no matter what you do with your career or life, there will be a lot of mixed feelings no matter what. There are tradeoffs with everything, and if you ask the question "was the reward worth the cost", few will be able to say definitively yes or no -- most will have to think about it and probably won't have an answer either way.

I also don't think you need to be passionate about finance to be in banking, but you need to know what you're giving up and whether it's a lifestyle you're willing to live with. Where banking can be such a great "lifestyle" is if you really have a tough personal life that you're trying to avoid (i.e. you're lonely, bad/abusive relationships, overbearing family, not a lot of friends, no hobbies/interests, etc.) -- banking provides a refuge from a bad personal life you don't have to face.

Alex Chu [email protected] www.mbaapply.com http://mbaapply.blogspot.com

Alex Chu www.mbaapply.com
 

Why can't people be passionate about finance and doing deals? Different strokes for different folks. Some HF managers I know are deeply passionate about investing (and that's finance) - they eat live and dream 10-Ks and earnings releases. In the process, they earn a neat sum of money. What's wrong with that?

 

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