Is poker an acceptable interest?

winning8159:

I used to have it on there once and got asked about it in an interview. The interviewer seemed to be interested, then asked if I played online as well. When I said yes, he proceeded to ask "wait, isn't that illegal?" Didn't get the offer.

God what a tool. I would have said, "Wait, aren't you a colossal tool?" Then I would have taken the change out of my pocket, thrown it down on the table, and said, "Go take the express to Whogivesashitsville. I'm out." Then I would sweep all the papers off his desk, SWOOSH!, thrown my chair against the wall and nonchalantly sauntered out of his office whistling a show tune.

Cause that's how I fucking roll.

winning8159:

I used to have it on there once and got asked about it in an interview. The interviewer seemed to be interested, then asked if I played online as well. When I said yes, he proceeded to ask "wait, isn't that illegal?" Didn't get the offer.

Gotta go with the "In fact playing poker online is not illegal however transferring funds offshore can be deemed as against some state laws. Because of this, I mainly register in satellite tournaments which will in turn qualify me for real, live events and assure myself that I do not get caught in the "illegal" part of online gaming"

If you are interviewing for trading I would put down tournament wins and big money finishes if you have any. If not add poker and game theory to your interests/hobbies and you will probably be asked a question about them. Don't think it would help much for banking.

Makes sense, I'll do that. I was just thinking to use it as a backup when talking about analytical skills.

i play poker, and when i interview someone with poker on their resume i'll give them a quick quiz and ask them to calculate how many outs they have in certain situations, nothing crazy, but it exposes people that are full of shit.

That's the kind of question I'd expect actually, pot odds, outs etc. Maybe you'll interview me some time :)

Poker is relevant to trading but not so much to IBanking (corpfin).

Good to see that you've opened this thread separately.

Yeah S&T and I-banking are two different fields.

Sorry for the confusion, I am talking more about S&T than corporate finance. Alhough if anyone has experience with poker and ibanking, that would be great also.

I'm also curious about whether it gets discounted as gambling or not. My school has urged me not to put it on my resume, saying that it's basically a "gamble" to do so.

I've spent a lot of time w/ poker, including my fresh/soph summers. I'm leaning towards putting it on the resume, but I'm a little worried. These banks make a huge portion of their money on trading, which is basically skillful gambling as well, but I'm not sure if they'll see it like that.

is there seriously a link here? I mean, maybe for equities trading, but I doubt there is for anything more complex - maybe a trader can fill me in.

If I see it on a resume, you better know probabilities cold.

Assuming we are talking about Hold 'em, if give you a hand and community cards, you better be able to tell me, quickly, of what the odds of you making your hand are.

That being said, only put it on there if its substantial. If you win regularly and know the probabilities, it PROBABLY wouldn't hurt in a trading capacity. I wouldn't put it on for M&A type work.

And ratul, its even more applicable in slightly more quant roles, in that it shows you can work through some math quickly in your head. (i'm not talking about true quant roles here, such stuff that is slightly more quant than vanilla equities).

I think it is a gamble to add poker to your resume in most jobs. In trading I think it is more appropriate to add it to the resume. I have heard of some hedge funds that even have company poker games.

The main problem is that most people think that poker is like any form of gambling. You need to explain how poker is a game of skill. You also need to focus on use of math/statistics/probability, ability to make important decisions for large amounts of money in a short amount of time, ability to manage bankroll effectively, being able to withstand downswings, and controlling emotions.

I am currently in college, so I am not in the industry. However, I have played poker online semi-pro for a while. If you go to the twoplustwo.com forums, this question comes up frequently. You could do a search on the forums. That is what I am basing my response on.

to be honest, hold em poker doesn't seem to need the mathematical dexterity of trading derivatives - I fail to see the link - maybe for cash trading, but anything else seems to be sort of random.

BrokenIncome,

You mean you tell me I have KhQh and flop is 2h3h8s, what are my chances of beating JsJd? That type of thing? I could do a rough calculation that I need a K,Q, or heart (and would probably ignore the chance of you beating me if I hit one of those).

So you wouldn't put it on for an ibanking analyst resume? If you did put it on, would listing profits or recent profits be smart? (e.g. Made $X in 2007 by generally playing $Y and $Z buyin cash games). Does the size of $X change your decision?

Ratul,

Poker isn't that math intensive. You have to be able to calculate pot odds and odds of winning against expected hand ranges. This means almost all calculations are very approximate.

There are also implied odds, which is kind of (as I've heard business valuation described as) more art than science. For example, a weak player might call bets with a flush draw under the wrong impression that if he hits it, a better player will lose a lot more on later streets. Better players can get away from these flushes easily and usually lose very little or nothing.

Also another thing to think about is that poker helps pay for college. In theory there should be some credit for that just like there is if someone worked a 30 hour/week shift at Walgreen's during school.

It would be funny if you put Baccarat on your resume as a 'skill' considering it's one of the most inherently non-skilled games out there.

Banker or Player..... uhhh, Banker. Very skillful.

I would put it on my resume under interests, not that big of a deal.

Don't put

Education: University of ABC

Employment: Goldman Summer Analyst (2005)

Poker Player (2002-2006) 1)Champion of XYZ Competition 2)Champion of @#$ Competition -Undertook high stakes online poker games to help pay for my probability textbooks (ironic right?) and board at my university

Put it nicely under 'Interests' along with basketball, tennis, and figure skating

Gshell,

Did you really pay for college through gambling? Please elaborate.

I was asked about poker in a few interviews and one interviewer did ask me about pot odds. I think if you have won a major (>$25K) tournament, you might want to list it.

Remember, the state of California considers it a game of skill...

I have poker in my "personal interests" section. One bank asked me if i was familiar with the current litigation affecting the industry. Another bank was impressed by the fact that I pay my tuition from poker winnings.

Susquehanna loves poker players, teaches poker during their training, and asks all about poker and probability in their interview

Bryan,

I have made enough to pay for college, but only pay for certain parts since my parents pay for the rest.

I've been playing online for about 3 years and seriously (i.e. generally playing 12 tables at a time) since summer 2005. I play middle stakes cash games -- the high and mid-high games have gotten really tough lately since the legislation makes it difficult for recreational players to get money online. I'm an above average player in the games I play, but definitely don't have near world class skill.

The best lesson I've learned is probably money management inside and outside the poker world. I'm glad I realized, before college is even over, that buying expensive stuff for the hell of it just cause you can isn't worth it at all and doesn't make you happy. I imagine lots of bankers figure this out too?

Also, I was thinking of kind of an intermediate between the extremes of listing it as a work experience and as an interest -- putting it as an activity along with school clubs.