TECH v. IBD debate
Hey guys,
So throughout my university degree I have been working really hard to get into IBD. However, the more I think about it, and the more i hear about it (such as the VP post on WSO saying “do not go to IBD it never changes”) I am wondering what other valuable opportunities could exist.
I am going to graduate from a fairly general field (think economics, PPE, business) and will surely undertake a master in the next following years.
IBD was attractive first because of the intensity, very broad vision, very blended mix of hard and soft skills, prestige and of course..... compensation.
But, the more I advance in my life the more I consider the fact that grinding 100 hours a week until i am 50 is completely irrational: I won’t have the opportunity to build a family the way i imagined it, travel, carry on my hobbies, take part to charitable work and engage in things which make a true impact (I’ve always been very involved in sustainable development and climate change related causes for instance).
Thus, i was wondering what kind of jobs (tech for instance or start-up?) would pay as much as IBD or more, be passionating or very stimulating in the sense of creating something great and meaningful for society?
Thanks for your answers !
Lmao none. Stop having a hard-on for tech. People look at Google, Facebook and Apple whereas "tech" is actually the software company in Texas that's getting undercut by Indian coders and the startup founder who's still living with his parents at the age of 40.
I mean that's not what most people think when they think "tech" lol the fuck? Tech is usually referring to companies based in tech hubs that have some form of interplay with the VC ecosystem. It usually does not include random enterprise shops serving some niche as fuck industry out in the middle of nowhere with an army of outsourced Indian / Eastern European devs.
Thanks for that ahah could you tell me more please?
TL;DR: tech is not a career path, it is an ecosystem of companies in certain locations. you cannot just assume tech = SWE. you don't have to code to work at a tech company. comparing "tech" to banking is beyond stupid. it's like comparing oil&gas to a career in acting..wtf does that even mean?
Think of basically any company that was "birthed" out of (or if not birthed at least modelled after a company like that) the ecosystem of VC firms (i.e. they received funding from VCs then exited) and HQ'd in tech hubs (areas with high density of "tech" companies and VCs); the largest one being the San Francisco Bay Area (or "Silicon Valley" as the metonym goes). Other major tech hub ecosystems exist in New York, Seattle, London, Los Angeles, Boston, Shenzen, Bangalore, etc.
The world of tech is largely bifurcated between the public (or "established / mature" if they're still private) companies and scaling startups.
EstablishedTechCos have more reliable / consistent equity that basically gets paid out like another salary except it can flex up or down (once realised) with the stock price. Whereas scaling startups can range depending on their stage.
If they're early stage, then your equity is basically a bet / investment (could be worth a lot or could be zero). If it's later stage / close to IPO then your equity is more certain and any upside is limited to how much higher the IPO (or acquisition) price is from where you received your equity.
Random ass, middle of nowhere companies don't fall into the above rubric because they sit outside of that universe and the norms that come with it.
For clarity:
And even within each of these groups, some companies have higher compensation structures than others. If you take a look at: https://www.levels.fyi/charts.html you can start to see that even within say the "established tech co" group the likes of Google, FB, Lyft, Uber etc all pay more per level than e.g. Microsoft, Amazon, Adobe, Tesla etc.
Roles wise, there are effectively:
Long whistle stop tour of what "tech" really is.
Also: It's not just Tech = SWE, you gotta choose where in a tech company you want to sit functionally. Banker / Consultant types would naturally fit in CorpDev, Strategy &Ops, Finance/FP&A, Product, Product Marketing type roles as the transition is more seemless since both banking / consulting and those areas are for generalists. Shock horror, you don't need to code to work at a tech company.
Conversely, moving into a role that requires a specific skillset would mean you need to develop that skillset. There is no room for a Designer or SWE who is only good at talking, schmoozing or simple logic you actually need hard skills to do the job.
There's a whole bunch extra stuff like what "levels" are or how comp is structured that I didn't touch on. But you can pick up that stuff in your own time
Have you tried tech / coding? At least when I thought of this path, I took an introductory coding class and immediately gave up lol. This shit was 50x harder than finance work, at least for me. If I truly wanted it, I probably could've worked at it and gotten better, but I really don't regret this all that much.
From what I've seen (most of my friends are in tech / startup), tech in FAANG isn't exactly easy to get into, and it's super competitive with the amount of people flocking to it nowadays. If you fail, you can go to something like a startup, but then you're likely getting compensated lower with a significant amount tied to equity comp which you may never see.
With banking, you make $ a lot faster and with less risk. It just depends what you can handle and your risk appetite. Are you willing to really dedicate yourself to compete with the hardcore coders out there for FAANG or take the risk of a startup failing? Also keep in mind 100-hour weeks isn't a perpetual thing. As you move up the ranks that decreases, or else no senior bankers would ever be able to have a family.
As someone you started in computer science and switched to finance:
- Tech culture is very peculiar (not a good fit for me)
- Good luck keeping up with the latest technology after you are 30, average shelf life of a software developer is lower than finance dudes and that is saying a lot, things are constantly and massively evolving
- Significantly more challenging and tiring intelectually (and by a few orders of magnitude)
If you are not into, don't do it. Same as the debate Law, Med School vs finance etc, pick something you like, those paths are so different that I will guarantee if you do proper dd you will find the best path for you
It’s not a real debate.
if you went to tech without a computer science background, at entry level you would work in sales and marketing, or FP&A, or a startup founder.
1) FP&A probably isn’t for you if you’re considering IBD
2) If you don’t have any idea you’d better not create a startup for the sake of it
3) You could be an account manager or sales rep in B2B SaaS and make good money.
However, if you’re hesitating between tech sales and IBD, I would urge you to lock yourself in your room until you figure out which one is best for you sooner rather than later. These are completely different. One is significantly more performance driven and based on communication skills, the other is more analytical and process-driven. Also a different lifestyle and compensation path.
Also, people And cultures are different. Do you prefer working with techies/nerds or sales people, or ambitious high achievers finance guys who think they are taking over the world and work themselves harder than their friends can imagine ?
I would have done tech if I didn't totally suck ass at coding.
you don't need to code to be in tech jesus christ
Yeah I read your other comment, but I guarantee you that OP meant SWE when he said tech and so do 90% of people. SWE is THE connotation of tech. Sure you can do non SWE stuff at a tech company, but how's that any different than CorpFin/Dev at any type of company besides the industry? When most people say tech they mean SWE or a role that requires coding in some capacity.
If you can’t code you aren’t in tech. You’re back-office at a tech company
Sure all the corporate functions are "back office" (kind of retarded way of thinking about corporate functions and management but whatever) but sales / service and the core product-related teams are not. Do you even know how tech companies work?
Y'all are a lost cause.
Sorry you can’t code
Sorry you don't have a brain.
The engineers are the one creating value. If you're not an engineer in tech your options are very limited.
Ha, have you worked with engineers? They'll self-cannabalise everything in the name of technical completeness. They're important but aren't enough to form a well-functioning tech company.
Engineers are the revenue generators in tech.
You realise how absolutely dumb that statement is? You guys overglorify the fuck out of engineers. You know most of them just churn through tickets everyday building stuff other people tell them to build. Sure the few rockstar senior engineers are extremely valuable and influence a ton of the roadmap but the rest are basically as replaceable as an IB Analyst.
Gimme a fckin break. Didn't know WSO standed for "we suck off engineers"
I listened to an interview the other day (can’t remember the name, think it was a partner from Sequoia or a16z), saying that the difference between good and rockstar software engineered isn’t 30% but an on order of magnitude away (ie the rockstar one is literally 200x more efficient than the good one)
Lmao how do chicks react when you tell them you’re in “tech” as a dildo logistics manager at amazon or whatever?
Yeh, because telling them you stare at an IDE all day really gets their panties wet. You got me there buddy.
Bro why are you so mad over people saying tech generally refers to swe LMAO, it's like how banker are usually a reference to investment bankers and not your local branch manager.
no.. no it's not.
the business of IB and the role of IB map 1:1.
the business of tech (for completeness, let's zoom in and say the core product / infra teams and the customer facing teams) maps to numerous roles. there is no 1 individual role that represents tech. if you really think that's the case then i'd say you need a brain transplant.
If it weren’t for compliance monkeys harassing IB we’d all be in prison! They’re an important part of the Investment Banking ecosystem and without them we’d be doomed. Thus, compliance is basically front office too. We’re all the same! Just like some random marketing goon in tech is exactly the same as the guy literally coding the products that are the lifeblood of the organization.
You for sure have never worked at a tech company.
Nor only SWE are important but also data scientists, product mgt, corp dev, S&M functions, C-suite functions...
Btw we wouldn’t be in jail without compliance people, I don’t get your point about then being front office they don’t interact with client and are mostly just there to send us online training and check any updates in regulation ? It’s not like they have a critical role in every deal it’s more back office support
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I'm not debating the actual definition, I think you're right. I'm just saying most people that say tech refer to swe/data scientist etc. (Some type of technically coding/analytical role). You can call these people brainless, but the majority of "brainless" people mean those things when they think of tech LMAO.
Again if you've ever worked at a tech company you should realise how dumb that is.
On any given team in a product area there will be a variable cross-functional group of: Engineers, Engineering Managers, Product Managers, Product Marketers, Product / Infra-focused Data Science / Analytics folk, ML folk, Design / UX folk, Technical Program Managers, Design Program Managers etc. All working together to build and shape products / infra. All of those roles are well-compensated and form part of this ephemeral bullshit concept of a "front office" you guys are debating about.
Likewise in a B2B company (that literally requires a sales / service team to generate revenue) the customer facing teams are also well-compensated and are part of this bullshit "front office" concept.
In actuality, if you're not a retard, you realise that FO only really applies to financial services or professional services, it doesn't apply to other industries because they aren't structured that way.
Maybe all of you dumbass interns opining should go work in a product group for your next internship?
Just so you know, at schools that are engineering/cs centric (majority of students only aim for silicone valley) - when those kids refer to tech, nobody fucking means Design/UX lmfao. Get a grip Analyst 1.
I don't really give a shit, go chomp on some fucking crayons or something. Intern.
This is one of those completely fucking pointless debates clueless college kids like to have. (Or maybe slightly autistic low EQ people).
If you like Tech, the go do tech. If you like finance, then go do finance. Not sure? Try both and see which one you have an aptitude for. They're both lucrative fields with lots of opportunities. THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT.
At the end of the day, if you're making good money nobody gives a fuck (at least nobody really should...) whether you're making 250K instead of 300K or whether your compensation is tied to stock options or cash bonuses. If you're smart, hard-working, and wise, you'll end up rich either way.
Amen
I had done two BB internships (one in PWM in my and one in S&T). I also had BB IBD internship offers but chose to do the S&T internship instead. I am currently working as a SWE at one of the largest SV unicorns and am very happy with my choice.
For people who haven’t learned coding but want to explore career opportunities in tech, I would suggest trying out roles like product analyst/data analyst and then lateral to PM later if interested. The technical requirements for these roles are fairly low. As long as you know SQL, the rest is presentation/communication. These roles have great WLB and also offers a great return/risk balance if you join a pre-IPO company. The comp is around 150k all-in for new grad and can grow substantially with stock appreciation/Fed money printing. And you also don’t have to worry too much about having to catch up with new technologies after 35.
I lol'd
You’re not getting a data scientist role in a tech hub making 150k only knowing SQL...
Guy I know who’s a DS major knows Python, R, Java, C++, SQL, advanced statistics, advanced Calc... yeah you get the point.
On top of that he says (and not just him but others I know who broke in) you need side projects to even have a shot.
i mean just look at any LinkedIn posting and you’ll see how competitive these roles really are. Hundreds of applicants for any decent company. Saw one in the Bay Area that had over 2000 applicants for one spot.
He didn't say data science tho.
Tech is broad feel like you need to be a bit more specific and I doubt you would find an honest answer on a site primarily filled with investment bankers,
He's obviously talking about theater tech guys, like lights and stuff. The ignorance on this forum is just...
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