The ethics of starting a new job even though you're leaving for b school in August

Here's my situation: my manager knows I'm leaving for b school and she's going out of her way to make me miserable (she wasn't one of my recommenders, obviously). I'm close to an offer in a somewhat similar field with a higher salary but would only be staying for a few months until classes start. I'm concerned how a short stint before b school would look to future employers, especially when recruiting for summer internships. Any thoughts?

Some background info: currently a research associate for a large Asset Management firm and the new role is for a research analyst at a data provider (Bloomberg, Reuters, etc.). Looking to stay within asset management after b school.

 

Does company #2 know your plans? That seems like critical info. It'd be a douche move to keep them in the dark. Probably best to ride out your current job for a few more months then take a long summer break. Plenty of opinions in another thread on how to spend that time...

FWIW I'm in a totally different field but am also having to deal with petty bs related to going to b-school in August.

 

I’d 2nd what Butler4MVP says, at least as far as Co. 2 knowing your plans. If they do know your plans and they’re ok with it, then go ahead. If you’re worried what it would look like, you can always leave it off your resume.

"There's nothing you can do if you're too scared to try." - Nickel Creek
 

I've interviewed people who have dove this and had no concerns. Some go do charitable our NGO work in the months before MBA.

As long as the new employers know, all good.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, post threads about how to do it on WSO.
 

I'll echo @Butler4MVP as well that it just depends on what the "new job" knows. I'm actually in a somewhat similar situation. My bosses don't know I'm leaving come August, but I do, and it makes putting up with all of the bullshit of my current position all the more unbearable. I've been trying to network my way into "pre-graduate internships" with companies by telling them my plans, the places I got into, and that I'm just looking for some (paid) experience. People have been surprisingly receptive to the idea. (Granted I don't have anything yet, but I'm hopeful.)

As an example, I have a second interview with a major REIT on Friday. They have a position open and they really like me but they're struggling with the idea of hiring me when come August they'll just have to hire another person all over again. If I had told them I'm just looking for a job, I'd have it by now...but I'd burn every bridge there come August when I just happen to leave. The honesty is killing me a bit right now, but it'll be much better in the long run.

Commercial Real Estate Developer
 

The 2nd company doesn't know about my b school plans. The company is technically in a different industry (not Asset Management) so I'm not too concerned about burning bridges. If it was directly related to my post-MBA plans, I wouldn't dare try something like this.

Ideally I'd want a pre-MBA internship before school starts, but like CRE mentioned they're pretty difficult to find. I guess the best option is to keep looking for internships. Thanks for the help guys.

 
ThetaHedge:

The 2nd company doesn't know about my b school plans. The company is technically in a different industry (not Asset Management) so I'm not too concerned about burning bridges. If it was directly related to my post-MBA plans, I wouldn't dare try something like this.

Ideally I'd want a pre-MBA internship before school starts, but like CRE mentioned they're pretty difficult to find. I guess the best option is to keep looking for internships. Thanks for the help guys.

Not worth it. They most likely won't do anything but you could suffer a lot if they do.

 
Best Response

I'm not sure what the point would be. It's 4 months and you will move on. Unless the new job was temporary/fixed contract, nobody would want to hire you, so full disclosure is a mute point.

Alternatively if you didn't disclose your intentions, your name might be flagged for future opportunities post-graduate school. Then again, some companies are so large they don't even bother sharing HR information.

Still, why not grin and bare it for a little while. Adds to character, will help develop your patience for intolerable filth, a skill you need regardless of your career choices and avoids any potential pitfalls.

 

I would stick it out until May and then take a loooong vacation. Trust me, it's probably the last one you'll get in a long time.

The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd.
 

first year MBA. here are my thoughts:

-If you can afford to, take time off to travel. no one will bat an eye except for some anal people that you dont want to work with anyway. -If you can't, suck it up and finish your job. Do the minimum and get by. -Do not take the new gig. This will look EXTREMELY poorly when you speak to recruiters and other asset managers if that's something you want to go back to. Consultants will hate your lack of commitment (and probably love your traveling story for anything less than a year), bankers will hate your lack of thick skin, and other investment managers will think you arent interested in Asset Management anymore. -You won't get any credit for this job experience for the next employment as it is too short. Minimum is a year, if not longer.

Summary: lose-lose situation, but lose more by taking on the new gig this late in the game. Better off taking time off and travel.

 

Agree with everything @west coast analyst said, with the following addition: they may not be in the same industry, but NEVER underestimate who they may know. For example, I'm going to work at a F500 after school. You may think that if you're coming from finance, I don't know anyone in your industry. However, I went to a huge finance feeder school undergrad and an MBA program, and I will look on LinkedIn and ask shared connections about you. If you fucked them over, it will get back to me and will knock you out of recruiting. Great rule of thumb is: never burn a bridge unless it's the last possible option left.

 

No worries at all. I would highly, highly recommend taking at least some time off. I quit on pi-day and started school in August, and it was arguably the best decision i've ever made. People will tell you how much work there is in school, and depending on what you are planning to go into it is absolutely true. Relax, workout, get yourself right both mentally and physically to go hard (both in school and socially) for 18 months straight right after.

 

If you don't have a U4 to protect, there's a potential win-win here for you and your manager. See if she'd be willing to fire you without cause and let you take unemployment- or better yet hit you with the next layoff (w/ severance). It sounds like you already have one foot out the door already, and the downside on this conversation is the rest of your career before business school (a couple months), not becoming long-term unemployed.

Would you rather spend the next six months working, or traveling, or going hang gliding, or visiting friends in other cities?

If there's some big vesting date for a bonus or 401K plan, wait for that, then when you're ready to quit, ask your boss if she'd be willing to terminate your employment without cause.

I took six weeks off before starting an MFE. I wish I had taken six months. And I wish I had negotiated some sort of a layoff with my boss. But I'm glad I took six weeks off. I got one of my first soaring flights in a hang glider during that time- something that simply would not have happened working 9-9. Just make sure you keep your health insurance in the meantime.

We have such a short time on this planet. And we only get so much time in our 20s and 30s, and most of that time is filled with work, especially in our industry. If you have the money, giving up a few months of after tax salary less the additional NYC cost of living (maybe $3-4K/month?) is not going to kill you.

In any case, I would not take a second job, and I would volunteer for the next layoff if you want a vacation.

 

I would also add that I would have cast a jaundiced eye at the notion of taking a few months off of work before I got to grad school. I was a middle class kid from a middle class school. And I played an extremely extremely conservative game with my career. I didn't like the idea of a 3-6 month gap in my résumé, and I didn't like the idea of watching money go out the door right before a $120K expense.

I can't give you reassurance on the finance part- especially if you have had some financial plan worked out for the past two years and you're determined to make it. But I can give you reassurance on the job front- a six month gap in employment, especially right before B-school, looks perfectly normal. Especially in an industry like ours'.

 

IlliniProgrammer, I actually was considering that option as well after reading a random M&I article about someone agreeing to be laid off for severance. My only worry, which relates to my original concern, is how future employers would view that. I would most likely have to disclose that I was laid off which sends a red flag, even if I explain that it was negotiated ahead of time. A severance package would be awesome though.

If I had the cash, I would probably quit right now to be honest. I'm trying to build up some savings so I don't have to worry about it during school.

Masterz57, I agree. Don't want to burn any bridges unnecessarily.

West Coast Analyst, good point with your comment on reputation. Is your school on the west coast? I'll be heading there in August.

 
ThetaHedge:

IlliniProgrammer, I actually was considering that option as well after reading a random M&I article about someone agreeing to be laid off for severance. My only worry, which relates to my original concern, is how future employers would view that. I would most likely have to disclose that I was laid off which sends a red flag, even if I explain that it was negotiated ahead of time. A severance package would be awesome though.

If I had the cash, I would probably quit right now to be honest. I'm trying to build up some savings so I don't have to worry about it during school.

Masterz57, I agree. Don't want to burn any bridges unnecessarily.

West Coast Analyst, good point with your comment on reputation. Is your school on the west coast? I'll be heading there in August.

You're wondering how it looks if you make career move XYZ? Seems like you're a better fit for an MFE than an MBA. :-)

In all seriousness, I can tell you that if school starts in August or September and you quit in May, the gap in your resume looks like a rounding error. At least where I come from in research, quant land, and trading. I was nervous about quitting in July and starting in September, but nobody even batted an eyelash when it came time for recruiting. At that point, everyone is focused on your school and your X years of experience in Y, not the 3-4 month gap in your resume (which again, largely looks incidental to grad school) when you are now doing something gainful.

OK, so you're one of those conservative dudes on the cash front. I get it- that's me too. But have you actually costed it out? After $45K in 2015 income, your federal tax bracket is 25%, your state tax bracket is 7% (11% if you live in NYC), and you are paying 7% in FICA. On an Associate's salary of $10000, you're clearing $6000, and after $2000 extra for Manhattan cost of living, you're really only clearing $4000/month over spending the summer relaxing outside NYC. I really don't think that's worth it for a job that makes you unhappy.

We normally think the responsible thing to do is to work hard and save money. And it's scary to see that check go from $X000/month to $0. But in this situation, if your boss is making you unhappy, you have to balance the responsibility towards your future lifestyle against the responsibility to your future ability to work. I'm asking you to be just as responsible to the intangible as to the tangible. You can measure what you're giving up by quitting a bit earlier- on a monthly basis, it's 60%*(Annual Salary/12)-$2000 (if you plan on being outside NYC before school starts). But you're also about to spend $160K on a very intangible, very unpredictable result. And that result will, in the long run, be correlated with your ability to do work, and your ability to enter the job market without any baggage from burnout at your old job. So I argue that the responsible thing here might actually be to quit sooner than you want to.

Stick it out until you hit the 25% tax bracket. If it helps, you can make a 401K contribution this year (deductible at 25%) and withdraw it next year and only pay 10-15% taxes on it penalty free for tuition. But you do deserve a break. I think you should be quitting by the earlier of June 15th or the day you hit the 25% tax bracket (after 401K contributions).

And if you can get your boss to fire you with both of you happy about it, that means you get to leave sooner. (Just keep your U4 clean and make sure you get UI).

 

To clarify, it's not the job itself that's making me miserable. I actually enjoy the work and love having access to so much research. It's the perfect environment to practice stock pitches and get up to speed on different industries.

It's my manager who's going out of her way to make it a hostile environment for me. Being a 47 year old divorced woman with separation issues and no children may have something to do with it (no offense if that's your current situation).

/end rant

 
ThetaHedge:

To clarify, it's not the job itself that's making me miserable. I actually enjoy the work and love having access to so much research. It's the perfect environment to practice stock pitches and get up to speed on different industries.

It's my manager who's going out of her way to make it a hostile environment for me. Being a 47 year old divorced woman with separation issues and no children may have something to do with it (no offense if that's your current situation).

/end rant

The work isn't making you miserable, but your boss is. I get it. But do you want to leave here with pleasant memories of the people and the work or negative memories?

Figure out what your personal break even is. For $50K/month, you're probably going to stay- even give up b-school to keep working. For $500/month, you'd probably quit as soon as you can professionally do so. Once you have that number in mind, think about the fact that you are probably going to value your time a lot more after b-school, and that people with graduate degrees are telling you they value that vacation more now than two years ago, and ask yourself if it should increase. Also ask whether that number would increase if you only had 2 weeks, 4 weeks, etc.

I'd still start planning my exit- or at least start doing a detailed cost-benefit analysis.

 

Not to hijack this thread, but any thoughts on the ethics of pursuing a job opportunity while in b-school acceptance limbo? I was recently contacted by a recruiter for a company that I'm interested in--one that I would even consider working at post MBA--and things have started moving with the application process. Could I potentially burn bridges if I go through the interview process so I have a backup plan in case I don't get into any business schools, then say no if I do get accepted? Or try and get a job offer, then try and turn it into a pre-MBA internship if I get accepted to b-school? My current job isn't the greatest and this company of interest offers a much more competitive salary, greater earning potential, and more prestige.

 

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