The liberal media's hit piece on Rick Perry

Brady4MVP's picture
Rank: Neanderthal | 3,198

First of all, I am NOT a Rick Perry supporter for the republican nomination and have major concerns about his social/cultural views and electability in the general election. Having said that however, politico's recent piece entitled, "Is Rick Perry dumb?" serves as a reminder of how much of a joke the media is and its double standard when judging republican presidential candidates.

There are legit questions on whether Perry possesses a substantive understanding of policy. But you will NEVER see the liberal media ask a similar question about Obama or any other democrat for that matter. Let's do a quick comparison of Perry's achievements with Obama's before he became president.

Perry: c-130 pilot, made a lot of money in real estate, never lost an election in texas, longest serving governor in state history, pretty solid economic record, initiated major tort reform.

Obama: got into columbia and harvard law through affirmative action, community organizer, taught at uchicago law but never published a meaningful piece of legal scholarship, mediocre career in illinois and U.S. Senate, wrote 2 books about himself, gave a great speech at 2004 DNC.

And yet, the media insists that Obama is "brilliant" while Perry is "dumb" because he got lousy grades in college back in the late 60's and early 70's. Speaking of grades and test scores, how come Obama never released them? What proof is there that our teleprompter president is brilliant and supremely talented?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/62214.html

Comments (124)

Aug 30, 2011

I hate the media, no matter what they do or say.

Aug 30, 2011

The title of the article was stupid, but i thought the article itself was more about how all throughout Perry's career he has been underestimated, and has left a trail of people who thought he was dumb in his wake. It actually wasn't really that much of a "hit piece" more of a "poorly titled piece"

Aug 30, 2011
Cardinal:

The title of the article was stupid, but i thought the article itself was more about how all throughout Perry's career he has been underestimated, and has left a trail of people who thought he was dumb in his wake. It actually wasn't really that much of a "hit piece" more of a "poorly titled piece"

.....in essence, they misunderestimated him

Aug 30, 2011

I love how it is assumed that every black person who has made any significant academic or professional achievements was able to do so because of affirmative action.

I also love how you cite "never lost an election in Texas" and "longest serving governor in Texas history" as proof that Perry is intelligent. As a Boston native, where Thomas Menino (nicknamed Mumbles) has served as mayor for 18 years, I can assure you that longevity in an elected office is in no way an indication of intelligence.

Also, agree with what Cardinal said. Did OP read the article?

"Perry may not be a wonk, but that doesn't mean he's a rube -- a costly mistake many of his foes have made."
"He's a power politician and a very canny one. And what seems to animate him is competition."

I'm going to guess no. Wasn't a hit piece at all. More about Perry's style and ability to overcome low expectations.

Aug 30, 2011
duffmt6:

I love how it is assumed that every black person who has made any significant academic or professional achievements was able to do so because of affirmative action.

I also love how you cite "never lost an election in Texas" and "longest serving governor in Texas history" as proof that Perry is intelligent. As a Boston native, where Thomas Menino (nicknamed Mumbles) has served as mayor for 18 years, I can assure you that longevity in an elected office is in no way an indication of intelligence.

Also, agree with what Cardinal said. Did OP read the article?

"Perry may not be a wonk, but that doesn't mean he's a rube -- a costly mistake many of his foes have made."
"He's a power politician and a very canny one. And what seems to animate him is competition."

I'm going to guess no. Wasn't a hit piece at all. More about Perry's style and ability to overcome low expectations.

The headline is just an attention grabber that's for sure.

Aug 31, 2011
duffmt6:

...I also love how you cite "never lost an election in Texas" and "longest serving governor in Texas history" as proof that Perry is intelligent. As a Boston native, where Thomas Menino (nicknamed Mumbles) has served as mayor for 18 years, I can assure you that longevity in an elected office is in no way an indication of intelligence...

Clearly the OP stated that those where "achievements" of Perry, not a sign of his intelligence. Did you even read what the OP wrote? I guess not.

Regards

Aug 31, 2011
cphbravo96:
duffmt6:

...I also love how you cite "never lost an election in Texas" and "longest serving governor in Texas history" as proof that Perry is intelligent. As a Boston native, where Thomas Menino (nicknamed Mumbles) has served as mayor for 18 years, I can assure you that longevity in an elected office is in no way an indication of intelligence...

Clearly the OP stated that those where "achievements" of Perry, not a sign of his intelligence. Did you even read what the OP wrote? I guess not.

Regards

The achievements were listed as a rebuttal to the accusation that Rick Perry is dumb. Do you have issues with reading comprehension?

Regards

Sep 1, 2011
duffmt6:

I love how it is assumed that every black person who has made any significant academic or professional achievements was able to do so because of affirmative action.

I also love how you cite "never lost an election in Texas" and "longest serving governor in Texas history" as proof that Perry is intelligent. As a Boston native, where Thomas Menino (nicknamed Mumbles) has served as mayor for 18 years, I can assure you that longevity in an elected office is in no way an indication of intelligence.

<span class=keyword_link><a href=//www.wallstreetoasis.com/finance-dictionary/what-is... rel=nofollow>LIBOR</a></span>:

Agree with above, you really think that Obama got into Columbia and Harvard because of affirmative action? Trust me, the man is smart. He was the first black editor of the Harvard Law Review, a significant achievement in its own right, and definitely not one that can be chalked up to affirmative action.

Not to mention, GOP candidates tend to pander to less educated people because it is the core of their base. Take a look at this article from the WSJ from a few years back. The media needs to ask this about GOP candidates, because frankly, GOP candidates need to act stupid in order to get elected. You really think Bush couldn't pronounce nuclear the right way?

These two warmed my heart, did the job for me so I didn't even have to try on that point, then I read this one, and it finished the deal by pointing out the flipside.

jimbo_slice:

Obama doesn't have particularly grand academic credentials to speak of either. If his grades or SAT scores were that great, he would have released them a long time ago. You're crazy if you think otherwise. Imagine if he had excellent grades from Columbia and released his transcript to the media? You can guarantee that the next day's New York Times editorial would be calling for the nullification of the Constitution so that Obama could be made King of America. Do you really think he would pass on that opportunity to prove he really is the intellectual they make him out to be 24/7? Come on.

The fact of the matter is that we're not totally clueless as to what his grades are because we know he didn't graduate from Columbia with honors. That means he had under a 3.3. His grades were therefore somewhere between "bad" and "mediocre".

Also ask why he didn't start at Columbia, but transferred in. It's not like he didn't have access to Ivy League admissions officers at his ritzy prep school. More likely he needed a couple years to make up for bad test scores and high school grades by getting some A's at an easier school. Only then was transfer admission to Columbia plausible.

His stint as Editor of the Harvard Law Review is notable for two reasons. One: he's the first and, as far as I know, only Editor to never actually write an article for the Review. Two: he was the first Editor appointed not based on being the top of his class but on some subjective essay contest they came up with the year he was selected.

Also telling is his record as a "Professor" at Chicago. Once again, nothing published and several of his colleagues have spoken about how little he participated in the intellectual life of the school while he was a faculty member.

I'm not going to even going to touch on affirmative action. But obviously that helped him in the college admissions process despite the fact that he was raised by middle class white grandparents and went to a fancier prep school than 99% of white kids' parents could ever afford.

Key takeaways: the guy's not the preeminent scholar and man of letters he's made out to be by his sycophants in the media. If you really think he is, then you are a really, really big fan, my friend.

Aug 30, 2011

Agree with above, you really think that Obama got into Columbia and Harvard because of affirmative action? Trust me, the man is smart. He was the first black editor of the Harvard Law Review, a significant achievement in its own right, and definitely not one that can be chalked up to affirmative action.

Not to mention, GOP candidates tend to pander to less educated people because it is the core of their base. Take a look at this article from the WSJ from a few years back. The media needs to ask this about GOP candidates, because frankly, GOP candidates need to act stupid in order to get elected. You really think Bush couldn't pronounce nuclear the right way?

By the way, Politico was criticized by Liberal watch groups for endorsing Bush earlier last decade. I would not call it a liberal publication at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politico_%28newspaper%29

Aug 30, 2011
<span class=keyword_link><a href=//www.wallstreetoasis.com/finance-dictionary/what-is... rel=nofollow>LIBOR</a></span>:

By the way, Politico was criticized by Liberal watch groups for endorsing Bush earlier last decade. I would not call it a liberal publication at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politico_%28newspaper%29

I find Politico to be one of the more unbiased political news sources out there. They have some writers who can be partisan hacks, but have many who can write reasonable logical pieces about political situations.

The funniest section of Politico is what they call "The Arena" were a moderator asks a question then hard-line koolaid drinking hacks from both sides answer the question by attacking the other side. It has absolutely no intellectual value, but its funny how crazy the spin can be from both sides.

Aug 31, 2011
<span class='keyword_link'><a href=//www.wallstreetoasis.com/finance-dictionary/what-is-london-interbank-offer-rate-libor>LIBOR</a></span>:

...Trust me, the man is smart...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNr66HHhMjs

What the fuck is a "Navy corpse man"?!?!?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh6Gx1KrvTw

Oh wait, never mind. Apparently Barack has a sixth sense.

Regards

Aug 31, 2011

ahhhh lets not forget perrys college credentials: texas A&M, bS in animal science(whatever the fuck that is) with 2.5 gpa

famous quote from perry; "I was probably a bit of a free spirit, not particularly structured real well for life outside of a military regime, I would have not lasted at Texas Tech or the University of Texas. I would have hit the fraternity scene and lasted about one semester."

this guy has presidential material/ leader of the free world written alllll over him.......

how the fuck can you not be supporting RonP? i mean LOOK AT THESE FUCKING CLOWNS!!!!

If you dont vote for RonP, you have no right to complain about the shitstorm that will be rolling in to good ole USA when one of these imbeciles is elected. they have proven that they know absolutely nothing about economics nor politics. the only thing they know is how to take orders and wear nice suits and slick hair.

Sep 2, 2011
mfoste1:

ahhhh lets not forget perrys college credentials: texas A&M, bS in animal science(whatever the fuck that is) with 2.5 gpa

famous quote from perry; "I was probably a bit of a free spirit, not particularly structured real well for life outside of a military regime, I would have not lasted at Texas Tech or the University of Texas. I would have hit the fraternity scene and lasted about one semester."

this guy has presidential material/ leader of the free world written alllll over him.......

how the fuck can you not be supporting RonP? i mean LOOK AT THESE FUCKING CLOWNS!!!!

If you dont vote for RonP, you have no right to complain about the shitstorm that will be rolling in to good ole USA when one of these imbeciles is elected. they have proven that they know absolutely nothing about economics nor politics. the only thing they know is how to take orders and wear nice suits and slick hair.

Didn't Obama like live as a shut in for a portion of his early 20's with a ton of blow, and now just calls it his "lost years"? Shut the fuck up you pice of shit.

Sep 2, 2011
mfoste1:

If you dont vote for RonP, you have no right to complain about the shitstorm that will be rolling in to good ole USA when one of these imbeciles is elected. they have proven that they know absolutely nothing about economics nor politics. the only thing they know is how to take orders and wear nice suits and slick hair.

Yea, I think its funny that proclaimed conservatives like MMBinNC and CPH can talk about conservatism yet are unwilling to vote for the ONLY real conservative in the race (mind you, my ideal candidate is Gary Johnson, the former governor of Nevada). Ron Paul social libertarianism scares these chest thumping moral savants because they aren't for personal freedom and real personal responsibility.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment.
-Styles P

Best Response
Aug 30, 2011

"Whether it is winning elections, beating out other states in attracting jobs or besting them for college football recruits, Perry is ferociously single-minded.

"This is like judging [baseball star] David Ortiz as a failed athlete because he's never scored a touchdown," said Democratic Texas state Rep. Mike Villarreal, alluding to the Perry-is-dull charge. "He's a focused, committed and skilled political animal. He wins elections. Do not underestimate him."

"In terms of sheer brains and understanding policy at a deep level, he'd rank pretty low," said McNeely, looking back at the chief executives he's covered from John Connally on. "But as far as power politics and control, he's the most powerful Texas governor in history."

From what was historically designed to be a weak governorship, Perry has bent state government entirely to his will during a decade in office. He dominates the Legislature, has effectively taken over Texas's expansive public university system and is relentless in his search for conquest.

What a savage "hit piece" from the "liberal media." Don't lose your seat on the Faux News ideology bandwagon fag.

    • 2
Aug 30, 2011

^ That was rough lol.

Aug 30, 2011

He's not going to be president, so who cares?

Aug 30, 2011
UFOinsider:

He's not going to be president, so who cares?

Really? Are you sure about that? The guy is currently killing it.

Aug 30, 2011

not sure winning texan elections is a sign of intelligence. surely there should be an inverse correlation between intelligence and winning texan elections?

Aug 30, 2011

I wouldn't really call Politico the "liberal media" so much as I'd call it a political gossip-rag not worth the paper it's printed on or the servers it's stored on. Its sole focus is the political horse race and political strategy, not actual issues. The fact that they are taken seriously by major media outlets goes to show you how poor of a job the media does in actually covering the meat of elections. Rather than focus on the issues and candidates' ideas and stances, they focus on the horse race aspects. A bunch of fiddling while Rome burns.

With that said, I don't give a fuck how many elections Rick Perry has won or, quite frankly, if he had a 2.5 or a 4.0, I think he's unqualified because of his extreme fundamentalist religious beliefs and the fundy company he keeps. Holding a prayer rally as sitting Governor with extreme fundamentalist clowns to ask God to fix the economy is a shocking joke and shows me that he is not a serious person. If Romney loses the nomination to Perry, I think he needs to kill himself.

Aug 30, 2011
TheKing:

I wouldn't really call Politico the "liberal media" so much as I'd call it a political gossip-rag not worth the paper it's printed on or the servers it's stored on. Its sole focus is the political horse race and political strategy, not actual issues. The fact that they are taken seriously by major media outlets goes to show you how poor of a job the media does in actually covering the meat of elections. Rather than focus on the issues and candidates' ideas and stances, they focus on the horse race aspects. A bunch of fiddling while Rome burns.

With that said, I don't give a fuck how many elections Rick Perry has won or, quite frankly, if he had a 2.5 or a 4.0, I think he's unqualified because of his extreme fundamentalist religious beliefs and the fundy company he keeps. Holding a prayer rally as sitting Governor with extreme fundamentalist clowns to ask God to fix the economy is a shocking joke and shows me that he is not a serious person. If Romney loses the nomination to Perry, I think he needs to kill himself.

I stay out of politics, but I liked that.

Aug 30, 2011
Flake:
TheKing:

I wouldn't really call Politico the "liberal media" so much as I'd call it a political gossip-rag not worth the paper it's printed on or the servers it's stored on. Its sole focus is the political horse race and political strategy, not actual issues. The fact that they are taken seriously by major media outlets goes to show you how poor of a job the media does in actually covering the meat of elections. Rather than focus on the issues and candidates' ideas and stances, they focus on the horse race aspects. A bunch of fiddling while Rome burns.

With that said, I don't give a fuck how many elections Rick Perry has won or, quite frankly, if he had a 2.5 or a 4.0, I think he's unqualified because of his extreme fundamentalist religious beliefs and the fundy company he keeps. Holding a prayer rally as sitting Governor with extreme fundamentalist clowns to ask God to fix the economy is a shocking joke and shows me that he is not a serious person. If Romney loses the nomination to Perry, I think he needs to kill himself.

I stay out of politics, but I liked that.

has your pic always been ron swanson? i just noticed it now.

he is a libertarian most WSO-ers can get on board with

Aug 30, 2011
TheKing:

I wouldn't really call Politico the "liberal media" so much as I'd call it a political gossip-rag not worth the paper it's printed on or the servers it's stored on. Its sole focus is the political horse race and political strategy, not actual issues. The fact that they are taken seriously by major media outlets goes to show you how poor of a job the media does in actually covering the meat of elections. Rather than focus on the issues and candidates' ideas and stances, they focus on the horse race aspects. A bunch of fiddling while Rome burns.

With that said, I don't give a fuck how many elections Rick Perry has won or, quite frankly, if he had a 2.5 or a 4.0, I think he's unqualified because of his extreme fundamentalist religious beliefs and the fundy company he keeps. Holding a prayer rally as sitting Governor with extreme fundamentalist clowns to ask God to fix the economy is a shocking joke and shows me that he is not a serious person. If Romney loses the nomination to Perry, I think he needs to kill himself.

If Romney gets the nomination, all Democrats should jump with joy.

Disclaimer: I don't like Perry or Romney.

Aug 31, 2011
TheKing:

...With that said, I don't give a fuck how many elections Rick Perry has won or, quite frankly, if he had a 2.5 or a 4.0, I think he's unqualified because of his extreme fundamentalist religious beliefs and the fundy company he keeps. Holding a prayer rally as sitting Governor with extreme fundamentalist clowns to ask God to fix the economy is a shocking joke and shows me that he is not a serious person...

Were you this critical of Obama when he was running for office...you know, while he was sitting in the front row listening to Reverend Wright spew hate speech...or when connections were drawn between Obama and domestic terrorist Bill Ayers?

I don't know, I guess I just feel praying is far less dangerous then setting off bombs. Agree to disagree?

Regards

Aug 31, 2011
cphbravo96:
TheKing:

...With that said, I don't give a fuck how many elections Rick Perry has won or, quite frankly, if he had a 2.5 or a 4.0, I think he's unqualified because of his extreme fundamentalist religious beliefs and the fundy company he keeps. Holding a prayer rally as sitting Governor with extreme fundamentalist clowns to ask God to fix the economy is a shocking joke and shows me that he is not a serious person...

Were you this critical of Obama when he was running for office...you know, while he was sitting in the front row listening to Reverend Wright spew hate speech...or when connections were drawn between Obama and domestic terrorist Bill Ayers?

I don't know, I guess I just feel praying is far less dangerous then setting off bombs. Agree to disagree?

Regards

You are talking about Obama having loose connections with people who some deem offensive, whereas Rick Perry makes no effort to segregate his religion and politics. Your last sentence is implying that Obama somehow sets off or supports setting off bombs? Um wtf? False equivalency.

You are so fucking blinded by your hatred of Barack Obama that you fail to think objectively about anything. When was the last time you tried to put yourself in an atheist's shoes? Or even attempted to understand anything contradictory to your heavily entrenched prejudices?

Aug 30, 2011

Liberals are always for tolerance, as long as it what they agree with.

Aug 31, 2011
ANT:

Liberals are always for tolerance, as long as it what they agree with.

"omg he doesn't like evangelicals who take the bible at face value...he hates religion and is intolerant of other views! HE MUST BE A LIBERAL!"

Shut the fuck up. I am intolerant of idiots who push baseless views on the rest of us. So, if far right evangelicals want to push their religious views on me and the rest of the country, I have a problem. Why? Because their views are based on a bronze age book filled with contradictions with no legitimately helpful information. That is, unless you need information on how to keep slaves or stone those who work on the sabbath. Look, until someone can prove that there is a personal God who cares deeply about the most minute aspects of our lives and demands we worship him as though we were serfs, the evangelicals can suck a dick. And guess what, there isn't a shred of legitimate evidence that such a personal god exists. This is not to say that there is no God of any sort, just that there isn't any evidence for such a personal Christian God.

I am completely tolerant of differing views based on a foundation of facts and reason.

Aug 31, 2011
TheKing:
ANT:

Liberals are always for tolerance, as long as it what they agree with.

"omg he doesn't like evangelicals who take the bible at face value...he hates religion and is intolerant of other views! HE MUST BE A LIBERAL!"

Shut the fuck up. I am intolerant of idiots who push baseless views on the rest of us. So, if far right evangelicals want to push their religious views on me and the rest of the country, I have a problem. Why? Because their views are based on a bronze age book filled with contradictions with no legitimately helpful information. That is, unless you need information on how to keep slaves or stone those who work on the sabbath. Look, until someone can prove that there is a personal God who cares deeply about the most minute aspects of our lives and demands we worship him as though we were serfs, the evangelicals can suck a dick. And guess what, there isn't a shred of legitimate evidence that such a personal god exists. This is not to say that there is no God of any sort, just that there isn't any evidence for such a personal Christian God.

I am completely tolerant of differing views based on a foundation of facts and reason.

This x1000.

Keep your religion out of my business and I'll keep my atheism out of yours. And let's all agree to keep both out of politics.

Aug 31, 2011
TheKing:
ANT:

Liberals are always for tolerance, as long as it what they agree with.

"omg he doesn't like evangelicals who take the bible at face value...he hates religion and is intolerant of other views! HE MUST BE A LIBERAL!"

Shut the fuck up. I am intolerant of idiots who push baseless views on the rest of us. So, if far right evangelicals want to push their religious views on me and the rest of the country, I have a problem. Why? Because their views are based on a bronze age book filled with contradictions with no legitimately helpful information. That is, unless you need information on how to keep slaves or stone those who work on the sabbath. Look, until someone can prove that there is a personal God who cares deeply about the most minute aspects of our lives and demands we worship him as though we were serfs, the evangelicals can suck a dick. And guess what, there isn't a shred of legitimate evidence that such a personal god exists. This is not to say that there is no God of any sort, just that there isn't any evidence for such a personal Christian God.

I am completely tolerant of differing views based on a foundation of facts and reason.

Can't you just feel the tolerance and love? It's like a warm hug or the sun shining down on your skin.

I guess the silver lining here is that, at the very least, you admit that you aren't tolerant of other people's beliefs. I suppose you deserve some credit for that...I think.

Regards

Aug 31, 2011

I wish ANT and TheKing would sit down together in the same room and drinks and talk politics. I think you guys should also tape it incase someone didn't make it out alive.

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee

WSO is not your personal search function.

Aug 31, 2011
blackfinancier:

I wish ANT and TheKing would sit down together in the same room and drinks and talk politics. I think you guys should also tape it incase someone didn't make it out alive.

Hell, I'd pay for the drinks to watch that

Sep 2, 2011
blackfinancier:

I wish ANT and TheKing would sit down together in the same room and drinks and talk politics. I think you guys should also tape it incase someone didn't make it out alive.

Theking would beat Ant's ass. I think theking would win by rear naked choke-hold.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment.
-Styles P

Aug 31, 2011

I am intolerant of people pushing stupid and unfounded beliefs on me. I am not intolerant of them holding their beliefs. See the difference? I know it's hard...

Aug 31, 2011
TheKing:

I am intolerant of people pushing stupid and unfounded beliefs on me. I am not intolerant of them holding their beliefs. See the difference? I know it's hard...

That's right, I remember you telling us how a bunch of ninjas broke into your trailer, adjusted the antennas on your picture tube and forced you to watch the prayer conference that Perry had. That must have been devastating.

Do you not see the irony in your statement above about pushing beliefs on people and your incessant posts about how religious people are insane and should kill themselves?

Regards

Aug 31, 2011

I am certainly republican but have heard from extremely credible sources, also republican, that Perry is no braniac....

Aug 31, 2011

CPH, you're clearly a racist. :)

Aug 31, 2011

Whatever Bros.. stop fighting about our Noble Peacekeeping non bipartisan campaigner in chief.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/boehner-fires-back-...
The guy is so scummy.

Aug 31, 2011

I fail to see how Perry is pushing his beliefs on anyone. Please tell me about the Christian dictatorship under Bush.

Perry has deeply held beliefs. Big fucking deal. The President has limited power and cannot force religion in schools or elsewhere.

Liberals are completely intolerant. If you think gay marriage is wrong you are labeled a bigot and a racist. What was one physical violence and now become labeling and verbal bullying.

Liberty and tolerance means allowing others to believe what they want. Unfortunately, unless you believe what liberals think is fine you are labeled and slandered. The put a hit on your reputation.

Sep 1, 2011
ANT:

I fail to see how Perry is pushing his beliefs on anyone. Please tell me about the Christian dictatorship under Bush.

Perry has deeply held beliefs. Big fucking deal. The President has limited power and cannot force religion in schools or elsewhere.

Liberals are completely intolerant. If you think gay marriage is wrong you are labeled a bigot and a racist. What was one physical violence and now become labeling and verbal bullying.

Liberty and tolerance means allowing others to believe what they want. Unfortunately, unless you believe what liberals think is fine you are labeled and slandered. The put a hit on your reputation.

honestly, i've never really understood this argument.

how do you expect people to be tolerant of an intolerant opinion? would you expect women in the 1900s to respect a man's belief that women shouldn't vote? would you expect a black man in the 1940s to respect society's view that he is worth less because the color of his skin? similarly, why would you expect a gay person today to respect others' opinion that he can't get married to the person he loves, or he can't serve openly in the military, or that he's not entitled to the same rights as straight couples?

look, we all have a right to believe whatever we want. but when certain beliefs debase and marginalize a group of citizens, particularly at a policy/legal level that renders them second-class citizens for essentially being who they are, then i have no problem with calling them out on it. it's like getting mad when someone you just punched punches you back...what would you expect them to just shrug it off?

Sep 1, 2011
jj1188:
ANT:

I fail to see how Perry is pushing his beliefs on anyone. Please tell me about the Christian dictatorship under Bush.

Perry has deeply held beliefs. Big fucking deal. The President has limited power and cannot force religion in schools or elsewhere.

Liberals are completely intolerant. If you think gay marriage is wrong you are labeled a bigot and a racist. What was one physical violence and now become labeling and verbal bullying.

Liberty and tolerance means allowing others to believe what they want. Unfortunately, unless you believe what liberals think is fine you are labeled and slandered. The put a hit on your reputation.

honestly, i've never really understood this argument.

how do you expect people to be tolerant of an intolerant opinion? would you expect women in the 1900s to respect a man's belief that women shouldn't vote? would you expect a black man in the 1940s to respect society's view that he is worth less because the color of his skin? similarly, why would you expect a gay person today to respect others' opinion that he can't get married to the person he loves, or he can't serve openly in the military, or that he's not entitled to the same rights as straight couples?

look, we all have a right to believe whatever we want. but when certain beliefs debase and marginalize a group of citizens, particularly at a policy/legal level that renders them second-class citizens for essentially being who they are, then i have no problem with calling them out on it. it's like getting mad when someone you just punched punches you back...what would you expect them to just shrug it off?

I take it you support incestuous marriages then? I know you wouldn't want to marginalize a man who was in love with his sister...right? Why aren't they entitled to the same rights as straight couples and how come you aren't standing up for their rights?

Regards

Sep 1, 2011
jj1188:
ANT:

I fail to see how Perry is pushing his beliefs on anyone. Please tell me about the Christian dictatorship under Bush.

Perry has deeply held beliefs. Big fucking deal. The President has limited power and cannot force religion in schools or elsewhere.

Liberals are completely intolerant. If you think gay marriage is wrong you are labeled a bigot and a racist. What was one physical violence and now become labeling and verbal bullying.

Liberty and tolerance means allowing others to believe what they want. Unfortunately, unless you believe what liberals think is fine you are labeled and slandered. The put a hit on your reputation.

honestly, i've never really understood this argument.

how do you expect people to be tolerant of an intolerant opinion? would you expect women in the 1900s to respect a man's belief that women shouldn't vote? would you expect a black man in the 1940s to respect society's view that he is worth less because the color of his skin? similarly, why would you expect a gay person today to respect others' opinion that he can't get married to the person he loves, or he can't serve openly in the military, or that he's not entitled to the same rights as straight couples?

look, we all have a right to believe whatever we want. but when certain beliefs debase and marginalize a group of citizens, particularly at a policy/legal level that renders them second-class citizens for essentially being who they are, then i have no problem with calling them out on it. it's like getting mad when someone you just punched punches you back...what would you expect them to just shrug it off?

This. Very well said.

Sep 1, 2011

Obama doesn't have particularly grand academic credentials to speak of either. If his grades or SAT scores were that great, he would have released them a long time ago. You're crazy if you think otherwise. Imagine if he had excellent grades from Columbia and released his transcript to the media? You can guarantee that the next day's New York Times editorial would be calling for the nullification of the Constitution so that Obama could be made King of America. Do you really think he would pass on that opportunity to prove he really is the intellectual they make him out to be 24/7? Come on.

The fact of the matter is that we're not totally clueless as to what his grades are because we know he didn't graduate from Columbia with honors. That means he had under a 3.3. His grades were therefore somewhere between "bad" and "mediocre".

Also ask why he didn't start at Columbia, but transferred in. It's not like he didn't have access to Ivy League admissions officers at his ritzy prep school. More likely he needed a couple years to make up for bad test scores and high school grades by getting some A's at an easier school. Only then was transfer admission to Columbia plausible.

His stint as Editor of the Harvard Law Review is notable for two reasons. One: he's the first and, as far as I know, only Editor to never actually write an article for the Review. Two: he was the first Editor appointed not based on being the top of his class but on some subjective essay contest they came up with the year he was selected.

Also telling is his record as a "Professor" at Chicago. Once again, nothing published and several of his colleagues have spoken about how little he participated in the intellectual life of the school while he was a faculty member.

I'm not going to even going to touch on affirmative action. But obviously that helped him in the college admissions process despite the fact that he was raised by middle class white grandparents and went to a fancier prep school than 99% of white kids' parents could ever afford.

Key takeaways: the guy's not the preeminent scholar and man of letters he's made out to be by his sycophants in the media. If you really think he is, then you are a really, really big fan, my friend.

Sep 1, 2011

I like how every Obama-maniac wants to gloss over my earlier post about seeing dead people and having conversations with a Navy "corpse man".

Can someone, preferably that went to some of the same Ivy league schools as the POTUS, please explain to me what the fuck a corpse man is?!?!?

Surely someone who went to both Columbia and Harvard Law School and who is the commander-in-chief of the United States Armed Forces would know what a Corpsman is and how to pronounce it...especially if he's as intelligent as people here are claiming. Just looking for some reasoning on this.

Regards

Sep 1, 2011
cphbravo96:

I like how every Obama-maniac wants to gloss over my earlier post about seeing dead people and having conversations with a Navy "corpse man".

Can someone, preferably that went to some of the same Ivy league schools as the POTUS, please explain to me what the fuck a corpse man is?!?!?

Surely someone who went to both Columbia and Harvard Law School and who is the commander-in-chief of the United States Armed Forces would know what a Corpsman is and how to pronounce it...especially if he's as intelligent as people here are claiming. Just looking for some reasoning on this.

Regards

I couldn't give two shits about a speaking gaffe. They happen to everyone. Come back with something actually substantial. You argue like an 8 year old.

Regards

Sep 1, 2011
duffmt6:
cphbravo96:

I like how every Obama-maniac wants to gloss over my earlier post about seeing dead people and having conversations with a Navy "corpse man".

Can someone, preferably that went to some of the same Ivy league schools as the POTUS, please explain to me what the fuck a corpse man is?!?!?

Surely someone who went to both Columbia and Harvard Law School and who is the commander-in-chief of the United States Armed Forces would know what a Corpsman is and how to pronounce it...especially if he's as intelligent as people here are claiming. Just looking for some reasoning on this.

Regards

I couldn't give two shits about a speaking gaffe. They happen to everyone. Come back with something actually substantial. You argue like an 8 year old.

Regards

Yeah, a small little gaffe...times 3 of course...not to mention it's a very simple word that many people would know. You would think that if many common people knew what the word is, that the man that is in charge of the most powerful military force in the world, who is touted as highly intelligent would also know. Alas, he didn't and you, much like the media, care not. You merely brush it off as a mistake...yet when less severe gaffes where made by the previous president he was branded an idiot and a dunce.

I know you don't care and I know pointing it out won't change your bias opinion...I merely wanted to highlight your hypocrisy.

Regards

Sep 1, 2011

If I am a bigot, but do not force those beliefs on others how are my beliefs less valuable than someone elses.

If you don't agree with gay marriage liberals will put a reputation hit on you. You aren't hurting anyone, you just disagree.

Intolerant beliefs are just as valid as tolerant beliefs. Trying to argue this shows how little one supports freedom of speech. If you don't tow the liberal line you will be labeled XYZ which is the new age way of branding someone with a scarlet letter.

I also fail to see what Perrys religious beliefs have anything to do with it. Many people share Chrisitan ideals and they go about their daily life without issue.

There are two types of people. Those that support liberty and those that support their version of liberty. Liberals love tolerance as long as it is on their terms.

Sep 1, 2011
ANT:

If I am a bigot, but do not force those beliefs on others how are my beliefs less valuable than someone elses.

If you don't agree with gay marriage liberals will put a reputation hit on you. You aren't hurting anyone, you just disagree.

Intolerant beliefs are just as valid as tolerant beliefs. Trying to argue this shows how little one supports freedom of speech. If you don't tow the liberal line you will be labeled XYZ which is the new age way of branding someone with a scarlet letter.

I also fail to see what Perrys religious beliefs have anything to do with it. Many people share Chrisitan ideals and they go about their daily life without issue.

There are two types of people. Those that support liberty and those that support their version of liberty. Liberals love tolerance as long as it is on their terms.

No, intolerant beliefs based on non-sense are not "just as valid" as tolerant beliefs. What makes them valid? The whole "people are entitled to be as ignorant as they want to be" mentality doesn't work when it means treating a group of people as second-class citizens. Especially not when people are basing their beliefs on non-sense. i.e.) "The bible says being gay is bad." Meanwhile, the bible is a book written by a collection of men from the bronze age, not by any God, which is filled with contradictions and non-sense. Again, it's fine for someone to take all of that and believe it, but if they use it to take rights away from others, or to impose a biblical worldview on the rest of us through government, then they can shove it up their asses.

Rick Perry held a prayer rally to ask God to "fix America," alongside a group of people who take the Bible at face value (despite hundreds of years of science to the contrary) and wish to push their biblical views on the rest of America and the world at large. This isn't about Rick Perry praying at home or at Church, no one would give a shit if he does that.

Also, I love how your definition of a "liberal" is essentially anyone who doesn't agree with your exact world view.

Sep 1, 2011
TheKing:
ANT:

If I am a bigot, but do not force those beliefs on others how are my beliefs less valuable than someone elses.

If you don't agree with gay marriage liberals will put a reputation hit on you. You aren't hurting anyone, you just disagree.

Intolerant beliefs are just as valid as tolerant beliefs. Trying to argue this shows how little one supports freedom of speech. If you don't tow the liberal line you will be labeled XYZ which is the new age way of branding someone with a scarlet letter.

I also fail to see what Perrys religious beliefs have anything to do with it. Many people share Chrisitan ideals and they go about their daily life without issue.

There are two types of people. Those that support liberty and those that support their version of liberty. Liberals love tolerance as long as it is on their terms.

No, intolerant beliefs based on non-sense are not "just as valid" as tolerant beliefs. What makes them valid? The whole "people are entitled to be as ignorant as they want to be" mentality doesn't work when it means treating a group of people as second-class citizens. Especially not when people are basing their beliefs on non-sense. i.e.) "The bible says being gay is bad." Meanwhile, the bible is a book written by a collection of men from the bronze age, not by any God, which is filled with contradictions and non-sense. Again, it's fine for someone to take all of that and believe it, but if they use it to take rights away from others, or to impose a biblical worldview on the rest of us through government, then they can shove it up their asses.

Rick Perry held a prayer rally to ask God to "fix America," alongside a group of people who take the Bible at face value (despite hundreds of years of science to the contrary) and wish to push their biblical views on the rest of America and the world at large. This isn't about Rick Perry praying at home or at Church, no one would give a shit if he does that.

Also, I love how your definition of a "liberal" is essentially anyone who doesn't agree with your exact world view.

Do you dislike Muslims as much as you do Christians? You talk about Christians all the time but it seems to me that Islam mirrors Christianity quite a bit...you know, being written by men and not a God. I can't imagine what you would have to say about a presidential candidate who was a follower of Islam...a religion that continues to persecute and kill throughout the world.

Also, the problem with labeling things as "nonsense" is that it is widely subjective. For sometime in America, people would have thought you a crazy person when telling them that black people are equal to whites or that women are just as smart/capable as men and that their opinions counted equally.

The problem with your train of thought is you believe your opinions and beliefs are superior to others...that, to me, seems far more dangerous than a prayer rally.

Regards

Sep 1, 2011
ANT:

If you don't agree with gay marriage liberals will put a reputation hit on you. You aren't hurting anyone, you just disagree.

What's a reputation hit? If you have an intolerant belief and people think less of you for that belief, nobody put a hit on you - you earned those stripes. It's like if you were to say that you think blacks should be considered to be property, or that women shouldn't be allowed to vote, or that children should be made to work 12-16 hours a day. All of these were once valid beliefs that the majority of Americans supported. Opinions have changed, for the better, in my opinion, although you might disagree.

In the 1800s, it was safe to treat black people like property, and it was a huge risk to stand up for their rights. You could be labeled a nigger-lover and lynched for defending them. Now, it's safe to treat black people like equals, and a huge risk to stand up against their rights. You could be labeled a bigot and ... well, I guess nothing would happen to you.

In the 1980s, it was safe to treat gay people like second class citizens. Their time hasn't come yet, but it'll be coming soon. See you on the other side.

Sep 1, 2011

Someone has a comprehension issue. When my beliefs don't extend past me, it is no ones business. Perry is religious, but luckily in the USA we have a separation between church and state. If I think being gay is horrible and they all should die, that is fine. When I act on my beliefs and cause harm, that is a crime. Unfortunately, if you don't think the way the left does, the label you and defame you. Calling someone a bigot, even though they follow the law and simply disagree with what you think is cool is verbal bullying.

I support liberty and freedom is speech. As long as your behavior doesn't cause me harm or you don't try and force me to think and act like you want, it's all cool with me. That is what the constitution and bill of rights is all about.

My views are easy to defend. You're the one saying someone that has religious beliefs is somehow unfit to do something completely unrelated.

Sep 1, 2011

I love these threads. Liberal positions are about as tough as tissue paper.

If I said someone shouldn't be President because they are atheist = I am a bigot and a bible thumper

If I say someone shouldn't be President because they have religious beliefs = I am smart and have common sense.

Also, for people who proclaim their intelligence, they keep mixing up the Old Testament with the New Testament. Jesus was pretty forgiving, tolerant and loving. Christianity is really based off the New Testament, hence the divergence between Judaism which follows the Old more closely and Christianity which is more aligned with the New.

Sep 1, 2011
ANT:

I love these threads. Liberal positions are about as tough as tissue paper.

If I said someone shouldn't be President because they are atheist = I am a bigot and a bible thumper

If I say someone shouldn't be President because they have religious beliefs = I am smart and have common sense.

Also, for people who proclaim their intelligence, they keep mixing up the Old Testament with the New Testament. Jesus was pretty forgiving, tolerant and loving. Christianity is really based off the New Testament, hence the divergence between Judaism which follows the Old more closely and Christianity which is more aligned with the New.

If you said someone shouldn't be president because they are an atheist then you are in fact a bigot. If you said someone shouldn't be President because they have religious beliefs, you are also a bigot. The point all of us social liberals/leftists/peoplegoingtohell are making is that the religious person should keep religion out of politics. Showing off how religious you are to win votes/make policy bastardizes the entire point of religion.

Also, no one here, from what I have seen, is making any mistake about Christianity. The Old Testament is still a part of Christian religions, and while the focus tends to be on Jesus' teachings in the New Testament, that doesn't marginalize or cancel out the Old Testament. You can't just pretend it doesn't exist because it presents hypocrisy and a vengeful God.

Sep 1, 2011

Religious individuals are a voting group within the USA. Religious beliefs are strongly held. Someone praying in public does not disqualify them from being President. Also, why is this such an issue. Should the President shit on and ignore religious individuals?

How about this. How about we reduce government intervention in individuals lives and we wont have to worry about this shit anymore.

I am not trying to ignore the Old Testament, but to simply state that the whole premise around Christianity and Jesus was that he was place on earth to change they way things were being done. The New Testament is the teachings of Jesus and his disciples and should carry more weight.

Sep 1, 2011
ANT:

How about this. How about we reduce government intervention in individuals lives and we wont have to worry about this shit anymore.

Sounds good- that's essentially all liberals stance on social policy. So abortions and gay marriage, I assume, are fine?

As for Perry, him praying really isn't as big of a deal as him allowing his religious beliefs to guide policy (e.g. evolution in schools). I also think it is a bit immature and naive to pray for the US economy to get better, but that's just me. I prefer politicians who rely on themselves, and not God, to tackle issues facing the country (and this is in no way exclusive of religious people).

Sep 1, 2011

1) I support abortion. I think it should be a last ditch effort since birth control and condoms are cheap and easy, but if you wanna get one, do it, none of my business.

2) I support two free people forming a union. I also support the government removing all tax benefits of marriage. Two people should be able to sign a paper and be legally bound.

3) Praying for the US is a non issue. It doesn't cost anything and can't hurt. Who cares. Religious people believe in God and they want to send a prayer to help this nation. Atheists don't believe and choose not to pray. The intention is nice.

Sep 1, 2011
ANT:

1) I support abortion. I think it should be a last ditch effort since birth control and condoms are cheap and easy, but if you wanna get one, do it, none of my business.

2) I support two free people forming a union. I also support the government removing all tax benefits of marriage. Two people should be able to sign a paper and be legally bound.

3) Praying for the US is a non issue. It doesn't cost anything and can't hurt. Who cares. Religious people believe in God and they want to send a prayer to help this nation. Atheists don't believe and choose not to pray. The intention is nice.

I guess we are (almost) in agreement then! /Thread?

Sep 1, 2011
ANT:

3) Praying for the US is a non issue. It doesn't cost anything and can't hurt. Who cares. Religious people believe in God and they want to send a prayer to help this nation. Atheists don't believe and choose not to pray. The intention is nice.

There's a big difference in the way that Americans praying to God and Americans praying to Allah are treated in the United States. This is funny, because God and Allah are the same person. Go figure.

Sep 1, 2011

Hmm...looking at the comments I just saw Christianity compared to racism and sexism. If that isn't a liberal argument I don't know what is. I am so amazed that you don't think that a citizen can go and speak to a religious congregation. Perry isn't forcing his beliefs on anybody. He may not be a model libertarian, but he is a damn good candidate who actually could win. He believes in a Federal Marriage Amendment...I do too. I am all for full-equality civil unions, but marriage is a religious thing, not something that the state should decide. I'm actually still waiting on my appointment to sainthood from Obama, maybe I shouldn't have filed it so late in the season...

Abortion is plain evil and anyone who doesn't see that has an abhorrent lack of morality. Why is the suicide rate for women who get abortions so high? Because it finally sinks in that they killed someone, and most people out there can't handle the moral implications of being a murderer.

The stupid argument is frankly...stupid. Let's be honest, the President has no way to unilaterally act on something. As long as a President has great advisors, stupidity isn't necessarily a horrible thing. Look at Obama, because he is so smart (or at least purports to be) he doesn't seek advice from people as much and is failing as the POTUS. Ever read that risk management quote "...a person's informational actions, though not his terminal actions, depend on his confidence in his beliefs...." . Because Obama thinks that he is informed he will not seek additional input, and tend to make more mistakes than someone who doesn't believe that he is omniscient and seeks input from smarter people.

Also, UFO...wanna bet that Perry could be the next President?

Reality hits you hard, bro...

Sep 1, 2011
MMBinNC:

Also, UFO...wanna bet that Perry could be the next President?

You're on. What are the terms? PMd you

Sep 1, 2011
MMBinNC:

Abortion is plain evil and anyone who doesn't see that has an abhorrent lack of morality. Why is the suicide rate for women who get abortions so high? Because it finally sinks in that they killed someone, and most people out there can't handle the moral implications of being a murderer.

It doesn't matter how evil YOU think it is, government shouldn't have the ability to prohibit it.

I don't get conservatives. They say they want a smaller government, but for some reason, they want the government to have all this control over people's personal lives. Tell me conservatives, why do you love big government so much? Why do you want the government to come into your house and tell you what you can and can't do? There's a reason prohibition failed so badly in the US. There's a reason the war on drugs is such a disaster. There's a reason we're burning so much money in Afghanistan and Iraq. But big-government conservatives just don't listen. They won't be happy until the government has converted everyone in the middle east to Christianity, put all the gays in mental asylums, and has 100% control over the uterus. Hypocrites.

Sep 1, 2011
redninja:
MMBinNC:

Abortion is plain evil and anyone who doesn't see that has an abhorrent lack of morality. Why is the suicide rate for women who get abortions so high? Because it finally sinks in that they killed someone, and most people out there can't handle the moral implications of being a murderer.

It doesn't matter how evil YOU think it is, government shouldn't have the ability to prohibit it.

I don't get conservatives. They say they want a smaller government, but for some reason, they want the government to have all this control over people's personal lives. Tell me conservatives, why do you love big government so much? Why do you want the government to come into your house and tell you what you can and can't do? There's a reason prohibition failed so badly in the US. There's a reason the war on drugs is such a disaster. There's a reason we're burning so much money in Afghanistan and Iraq. But big-government conservatives just don't listen. They won't be happy until the government has converted everyone in the middle east to Christianity, put all the gays in mental asylums, and has 100% control over the uterus. Hypocrites.

Can we legalize murder than? I know a few Democrat politicians that could get to know an Remington 700 a bit better.

Reality hits you hard, bro...

Sep 1, 2011
redninja:
MMBinNC:

Abortion is plain evil and anyone who doesn't see that has an abhorrent lack of morality. Why is the suicide rate for women who get abortions so high? Because it finally sinks in that they killed someone, and most people out there can't handle the moral implications of being a murderer.

It doesn't matter how evil YOU think it is, government shouldn't have the ability to prohibit it.

I don't get conservatives. They say they want a smaller government, but for some reason, they want the government to have all this control over people's personal lives. Tell me conservatives, why do you love big government so much? Why do you want the government to come into your house and tell you what you can and can't do? There's a reason prohibition failed so badly in the US. There's a reason the war on drugs is such a disaster. There's a reason we're burning so much money in Afghanistan and Iraq. But big-government conservatives just don't listen. They won't be happy until the government has converted everyone in the middle east to Christianity, put all the gays in mental asylums, and has 100% control over the uterus. Hypocrites.

The phrase big-government and conservative don't belong in the same sentence. They are totally opposite.

Also, there is a difference between conservatives and religious conservatives.

Sep 2, 2011
redninja:
MMBinNC:

Abortion is plain evil and anyone who doesn't see that has an abhorrent lack of morality. Why is the suicide rate for women who get abortions so high? Because it finally sinks in that they killed someone, and most people out there can't handle the moral implications of being a murderer.

It doesn't matter how evil YOU think it is, government shouldn't have the ability to prohibit it.

I don't get conservatives. They say they want a smaller government, but for some reason, they want the government to have all this control over people's personal lives. Tell me conservatives, why do you love big government so much? Why do you want the government to come into your house and tell you what you can and can't do? There's a reason prohibition failed so badly in the US. There's a reason the war on drugs is such a disaster. There's a reason we're burning so much money in Afghanistan and Iraq. But big-government conservatives just don't listen. They won't be happy until the government has converted everyone in the middle east to Christianity, put all the gays in mental asylums, and has 100% control over the uterus. Hypocrites.

The issue here, as far as the uterus is concerned, is that many people view abortion as murder. Murder is something the government should condemn and punish...whether or not you believe that abortion is murder is really what the debate is. However, it's really hard to make the claim that abortion isn't murder considering many people have the walls painted and crib picked out well before the time that others are aborting their child...so the liberals fall back to dusty argument of trying to control a woman's uterus. No one that I've ever met, who didn't approve of abortion, did so because they wanted to play puppeteer...they did so in an effort to protect those that are not able to protect themselves.

As far as the middle east is concerned...that whole subject leaves me befuddled. The left likes to claim they are the champions of civil and human rights (while claiming those on the right are trying to take them away) but they continually turn a blind eye to the discrimination and murder that occurs throughout Muslim countries worldwide. Color me confused.

Regards

Sep 2, 2011
MMBinNC:

He believes in a Federal Marriage Amendment...I do too. I am all for full-equality civil unions, but marriage is a religious thing, not something that the state should decide.

Dude, are you serious? You claim to be a libertarian, yet you are for the government getting involved in someone's personal relationships? Are you serious? Personal relationships are none, and I mean none, of the government's business. People like you, and by that I mean ingrates who want the people who make up our government to push morality on the masses, are the reason why blacks and whites couldn't get legally married.

MMBinNC:

Abortion is plain evil and anyone who doesn't see that has an abhorrent lack of morality. Why is the suicide rate for women who get abortions so high? Because it finally sinks in that they killed someone, and most people out there can't handle the moral implications of being a murderer.

Shut the fuck up. Abortion is killing cells. The human body kills cells all the time. Nearly 50% of all pregnancies are aborted naturally because of some type of defect. Is that morally abhorrent? People like you, who feign some adherence to liberty are mental light-weights incapable of thinking past what is directly in front of you. It has been proven that the factor most responsible for the massive drop in crime after the 70s was the ease of access to abortion. Poor woman without any spouse to raise their child with could act RESPONSIBLY and abort their future child. Not aborting their fetus would have been IRRESPONSIBLE since they would have been unable to raise it without government aid.

If it were up to you and your mentally retarded ilk, those people would be forced to raise their kids who were much more likely to become criminals.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment.
-Styles P

Sep 1, 2011

I fail to see the difference. You are ascribing some type of populace reaction to my beliefs in liberty. I disagree with many of the people in this nation so what they do does not reflect on me.

And no, you do not earn stripes. Because I believe in something different than you do does not mean you can publicly label me a term which is solely intended to cause harm to my reputation. This is the core of what I call verbal bullying.

I really don't understand how Islam got into this conversation. If anything, one simply has to look at the Middle East to see pure intolerance and bigotry. Trying to compare the average American's "distaste" for Islam, to the utter and absolute intolerance shown and perpetrated in the Middle East is weak sauce in my book.

Muslims can go to any church, when can Christians go to Mecca?

Sep 1, 2011

I'll agree with that. Exactly why I'm a libertarian. Fiscally conservative, socially moderate.

Sep 1, 2011

Ninja, Seems like your confusing Republican with conservative.

Republicans far too often pander to the social conservatives because like it or not gay marrige and abortion get people to the polls better then tax and patent reform.

The GOP had been all about big government but is now jumping on the fiscal conservative band wagon because of the Tea Party. The thing i liked most about the Tea Party is that they seemed to not care about social issues and were focused on ideas they believed would help the American economy.

Many fiscal conservatives i know, myself included, cannot stand social conservatives especially since they are the people TV Cameras flock to and people generalize all Republican voters as gay hating SEC fans.

Sep 1, 2011
Cardinal:

Ninja, Seems like your confusing Republican with conservative.

Republicans far too often pander to the social conservatives because like it or not gay marrige and abortion get people to the polls better then tax and patent reform.

The GOP had been all about big government but is now jumping on the fiscal conservative band wagon because of the Tea Party. The thing i liked most about the Tea Party is that they seemed to not care about social issues and were focused on ideas they believed would help the American economy.

Many fiscal conservatives i know, myself included, cannot stand social conservatives especially since they are the people TV Cameras flock to and people generalize all Republican voters as gay hating SEC fans.

I understand where you're coming from. The only point I disagree on is the notion that the Tea Party did not seem to care about social issues. I don't believe the Tea Party was ever a purely fiscally conservative movement. If they were, then Ron Paul would have been their hero, not social conservatives like Christine O'Donnell, Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman and Rick Perry.

Here's another salient counter-example: http://www.teaparty.org/about.php They have 15 non-negotiable core beliefs. Most of these are fiscal, but what about
14. English As Core Language Is Required.
15. Traditional Family Values Are Encouraged.

Since when was big government enforcing a common language a part of the constitution?

Besides Ron Paul, I can't think of a single Tea Party darling who wants big government out of the bedroom and the uterus.

Sep 2, 2011
redninja:
Cardinal:

Ninja, Seems like your confusing Republican with conservative.

Republicans far too often pander to the social conservatives because like it or not gay marrige and abortion get people to the polls better then tax and patent reform.

The GOP had been all about big government but is now jumping on the fiscal conservative band wagon because of the Tea Party. The thing i liked most about the Tea Party is that they seemed to not care about social issues and were focused on ideas they believed would help the American economy.

Many fiscal conservatives i know, myself included, cannot stand social conservatives especially since they are the people TV Cameras flock to and people generalize all Republican voters as gay hating SEC fans.

I understand where you're coming from. The only point I disagree on is the notion that the Tea Party did not seem to care about social issues. I don't believe the Tea Party was ever a purely fiscally conservative movement. If they were, then Ron Paul would have been their hero, not social conservatives like Christine O'Donnell, Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman and Rick Perry.

Here's another salient counter-example: http://www.teaparty.org/about.php They have 15 non-negotiable core beliefs. Most of these are fiscal, but what about
14. English As Core Language Is Required.
15. Traditional Family Values Are Encouraged.

Since when was big government enforcing a common language a part of the constitution?

Besides Ron Paul, I can't think of a single Tea Party darling who wants big government out of the bedroom and the uterus.

English should be the only language we officially speak in America. How do you teach kids in school who speak a different language than the teacher?

And traditional family values are great for a country. Look at the ghettos and the trailer parks with their single parent homes. How's that working out for the country's budget?

Regards

Sep 1, 2011
Sep 1, 2011

Corpsman is pretty well known. Obama is as clumsy as Biden when you get him away from his holographic teleprompter.

Sep 2, 2011
ANT:

Corpsman is pretty well known. Obama is as clumsy as Biden when you get him away from his holographic teleprompter.

ANT, sadly he was using his teleprompter. I know it seems trivial to some, but he is the commander-in-chief...it's unacceptable to me that he doesn't know the titles of those he commands. Plus, he didn't misspeak once and then correct himself...he did it twice.

Regards

Sep 2, 2011
cphbravo96:
ANT:

Corpsman is pretty well known. Obama is as clumsy as Biden when you get him away from his holographic teleprompter.

ANT, sadly he was using his teleprompter. I know it seems trivial to some, but he is the commander-in-chief...it's unacceptable to me that he doesn't know the titles of those he commands. Plus, he didn't misspeak once and then correct himself...he did it twice.

Regards

Every fucking president uses a fucking teleprompter. He didn't know how to pronounce the word. We get it. It's such a non fucking issue that it is un fucking believable.

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Sep 2, 2011
  1. If you're a fucking retard debating the point that abortion is murder, guess what: no one fucking cares, and it's been legal for two generations. Shut the fuck up already.
  2. The system collapsed a few years ago because no one bothered with any rules or foresight....what you see today is a result of unbridled greed. You bought this upon yourselves.
  3. Fucking blow me. I've been drinking and I'm pissed off, so seriously, kiss my ass. Fuck you.
Sep 2, 2011

What does #2 refer to?

Reality hits you hard, bro...

Sep 2, 2011

Bravo:

And if you want to disagree with me, please provide credible evidence for a personal God that cares about the intimate details of our lives. Otherwise, there is no argument supporting politicians who wish to push their religious views on society at large and into government policy.

Sep 2, 2011
TheKing:

Bravo:

And if you want to disagree with me, please provide credible evidence for a personal God that cares about the intimate details of our lives. Otherwise, there is no argument supporting politicians who wish to push their religious views on society at large and into government policy.

You know there isn't evidence, so your challenge is silly. It's a faith based religion...FAITH being the keyword.

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary; for those who don't, no evidence is enough."

Regards

Sep 2, 2011
cphbravo96:
TheKing:

Bravo:

And if you want to disagree with me, please provide credible evidence for a personal God that cares about the intimate details of our lives. Otherwise, there is no argument supporting politicians who wish to push their religious views on society at large and into government policy.

You know there isn't evidence, so your challenge is silly. It's a faith based religion...FAITH being the keyword.

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary; for those who don't, no evidence is enough."

Regards

This is EXACTLY my point. Because it is faith based, it should not be used as rationale for legislation and policy making.

Sep 2, 2011

Please tell me how Perry is pushing anything on you. You shit on him and his praying yet he hasn't pushed anything on you. You crap on Glenn Beck and being a Mormon yet he hasn't pushes shot on you.

You might say you don't like when religious people push their views on you, but even when they do not you clearly take issue.

Sep 2, 2011
ANT:

Please tell me how Perry is pushing anything on you. You shit on him and his praying yet he hasn't pushed anything on you. You crap on Glenn Beck and being a Mormon yet he hasn't pushes shot on you.

You might say you don't like when religious people push their views on you, but even when they do not you clearly take issue.

Creationism being taught in schools, abortion (although the presidency has little influence here), gay rights issues, etc.

Religion affects almost all of Perry's [update: social] political stances. If he were to become president or if I was a resident of Texas, he would be pushing his religious views on me. I don't see why this is all that hard to understand.

Sep 2, 2011

ANT:

I am arguing why he should not be President because it would give him power to push religion-based agendas on America as a whole. He has aligned himself with religious "leaders" who wish to turn America into a sort of Christian Theocracy...despite zero credible evidence that their theology has any merit whatsoever.

Also, plenty of other politicians attempt to legislate morality based upon their religious beliefs, this isn't something that hasn't happened or won't continue to happen. Remember Terry Schiavo? The Congress moved quicker to plug her feeding tube back in than they did to fix the debt ceiling "crisis." And her brain had already completely turned to mush!

Come on man!

Sep 2, 2011
TheKing:

ANT:

I am arguing why he should not be President because it would give him power to push religion-based agendas on America as a whole. He has aligned himself with religious "leaders" who wish to turn America into a sort of Christian Theocracy...despite zero credible evidence that their theology has any merit whatsoever.

Also, plenty of other politicians attempt to legislate morality based upon their religious beliefs, this isn't something that hasn't happened or won't continue to happen. Remember Terry Schiavo? The Congress moved quicker to plug her feeding tube back in than they did to fix the debt ceiling "crisis." And her brain had already completely turned to mush!

Come on man!

You know there are far greater legal consequences for cases such as Terry Schiavo than you would make out. Just unplugging the machine has ramifications and sets precedents that will be leaned upon in the future. You may also recall that there were questions surrounding her initial hospitalization and some people believed that it might have been caused by the husband...who also wanted to remove her feeding tube.

Anyways, the crazy part here is that you allow someone to starve to death over a period of weeks. To me, the humane thing would be to actually stick a needle in her arm and kill her, a courtesy commonly shown to the country's most vile criminals. Instead, they remove her feeding tube despite being in a "wakeful unconscious state" and allow her to potentially suffer...for nearly 2 weeks.

Regards

Sep 2, 2011

Where is this notion that I dislike Ron Paul come from? On almost every thread I've said that I think that he was probably the best candidate, but probably won't actually get the nomination. I think that the government should have no say in marriage. Common law marriage is ridiculous and blasphemy. But the state isn't getting uninvolved anytime soon, so I would rather there be some law against destroying the institution of marriage further. There should ONLY be civil unions IMHO, and marriage be reserved for a spiritual rite. But the government likes being involved too much. Why do homosexuals want to be married rather than have an equal rights civil union? It's a societal acceptance thing, we all know it. But sorry, I don't buy into the fact that we should destroy something for their desire to be "accepted"...there are far more barriers than a word.

Reality hits you hard, bro...

Sep 2, 2011

We're not destroying anything by letting gays marry. That argument is fucking pathetic. "Traditional marriage is between a man and a woman." So marry a fucking woman and get over it. God damnit, how people give a shit about two men or two women getting married is fucking beyond me.

Again, there are ZERO practical arguments against allowing gay marriage. And guess what, religious / bible based arguments don't add up to jack shit unless you can prove to me that there is an all-powerful personal God who gives a shit about this stuff. Oh wait...you can't.

Sep 2, 2011

MMBinNC, so would you be against allowing previously divorced people from getting married? I think our high divorce rates among straight heteros had done far more to destroy the very institution that you are defending.

Thanks for showing the capacity of enemies of equal protection under the law. There is no legitimate argument against full marriage equality.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment.
-Styles P

Sep 2, 2011

I honestly do not understand your way of thinking. #1, the law does not simply cater to Catholics, divorce is allowed in many other religions and remariage. #2, I said the state should not be in the business of marrying people, therefor e the state would have no bearing on the matter. People should be able to get as many civil unions as they want.

Reality hits you hard, bro...

Sep 3, 2011

TheKing, it is pointless to even try to debate MMBinNC. This kid professed a love for Cheney.

Enough said.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment.
-Styles P

Sep 3, 2011

Since none of the Republican candidates have ever proposed anything like making Christianity the official religion, this whole "Republican theocracy" argument is probably the most ridiculous straw man argument I've ever heard.

What many are proposing is that parents be able to teach their kids traditional moral values without being undercut by public school teachers, many of whom are political progressives and , let's face it, are in the profession to begin with mainly to help shape kids minds. There isn't necessarily anything wrong with that but, when teachers are teaching these progressive, often relativistic, ideas about morality that are totally contrary to what many parents are teaching their kids at home, it's not really a surprise that some parents are upset. The other issue is obviously Hollywood and the media broadcasting a lot of questionable content and many of these people just want networks to feel some sense of social responsibility to kids who are viewing.

Note that a candidate's sympathy to any of these concerns does not constitute a burning desire to make America a "theocracy".

Sep 3, 2011

Also, "Traditional fAmily Values" doesn't constitute Protestantism and heterosexuality. Let's be honest, do you think that the 50s (aside from the racism) was worse off than now. How dare the crime rate be lower, children be able to play outside, and families be nuclear. I was lucky enough to grow up with a family with both parents, a father who was home when I got back from school, good family values, and eating dinner with the family every night. This situation wouldn't be "lucky" a few decades back, it would be the norm. And unsurprisingly the crime rate is higher today and education is worse. Anyone who contests that watch a 50s-60s era TV show and compare it to like Wheel of Fortune or even Jeopardy. It makes the people today sem like idiots.

Reality hits you hard, bro...

Sep 3, 2011
MMBinNC:

Also, "Traditional fAmily Values" doesn't constitute Protestantism and heterosexuality. Let's be honest, do you think that the 50s (aside from the racism) was worse off than now. How dare the crime rate be lower, children be able to play outside, and families be nuclear. I was lucky enough to grow up with a family with both parents, a father who was home when I got back from school, good family values, and eating dinner with the family every night. This situation wouldn't be "lucky" a few decades back, it would be the norm. And unsurprisingly the crime rate is higher today and education is worse. Anyone who contests that watch a 50s-60s era TV show and compare it to like Wheel of Fortune or even Jeopardy. It makes the people today sem like idiots.

You can't really just brush aside the whole racism thing. Doesn't work like that. The whole "we need to be more like we were in the '50s" mentality is childish at best, and not based on any true historical reality. Give me a break.

Sep 3, 2011

So you are saying racism is what made the 50s great? lol That seems a little racist..."Let's discriminate more, so we can have a better America". gtfo

Reality hits you hard, bro...

Sep 3, 2011

No, I'm saying you can't look fondly upon an era (that you didn't even live through) while conveniently ignoring a huge societal negative. Shit was ingrained in society. I hate the far right's jerk off session to the 1950s. it ignores reality.

Also, fucking "leave it to beaver" bullshit can eat a dick.

Sep 3, 2011
TheKing:

No, I'm saying you can't look fondly upon an era (that you didn't even live through) while conveniently ignoring a huge societal negative. Shit was ingrained in society. I hate the far right's jerk off session to the 1950s. it ignores reality.

Also, fucking "leave it to beaver" bullshit can eat a dick.

What point are you trying to make exactly? That if people didn't have traditional moral values in the '50s there wouldn't have been racism then? That if people return to traditional moral values today it will bring on the return of widespread racism? Is there a reason people can't be both moral and non-racist or do they preclude each other somehow?

Seriously, what the hell point are you trying to make? Please educate us.

Note: This thread started out about Rick Perry and George Bush being unfairly cast as "unintelligent" when Obama's similarly mediocre academic career is used by the media as indisputable proof of his genius. Now, somehow, it has devolved into liberals raving about the coming Republican "theocracy". This theocracy nonsense can only be one of two things: a painstaking attempt to evade the actual issues and focus on straw men or actual clinical paranoia. There really is no other possible explanation.

Sep 3, 2011

I believe Everybody Loves Raymond, According to Jim, Home Improvement, etc all conform to the 'ideal' that you say can be found in 50s TV shows...not exactly a good litmus test.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

Sep 3, 2011

I'm not saying that it was all Leave it to Beaver. There was the racism, high taxes, and other stuff. But the morality nd general education was better. The liberal's attack on the use of corporal punishment and well, any punishment in school as destroyed the power that teachers once had. Teachers need to be respected and feared in schools to have control. A guy I know that did TFA almost got expelled from the program because he grabbed a kid's arm and led him out of the classroom to the principals office. It is ridiculous.

Allowing for paddling in schools would solve so much in my opinion. Security guards should be able to carry real weapons- not guns, but like nightsticks. People are so timid when it comes to punishment, but tons of schoolchildren could benefit from a good beating. If their parents don't do it, the state should do it. Isn't that what the liberals want for everything else in society?

Reality hits you hard, bro...

Sep 4, 2011
MMBinNC:

I'm not saying that it was all Leave it to Beaver. There was the racism, high taxes, and other stuff. But the morality nd general education was better. The liberal's attack on the use of corporal punishment and well, any punishment in school as destroyed the power that teachers once had. Teachers need to be respected and feared in schools to have control. A guy I know that did TFA almost got expelled from the program because he grabbed a kid's arm and led him out of the classroom to the principals office. It is ridiculous.

Allowing for paddling in schools would solve so much in my opinion. Security guards should be able to carry real weapons- not guns, but like nightsticks. People are so timid when it comes to punishment, but tons of schoolchildren could benefit from a good beating. If their parents don't do it, the state should do it. Isn't that what the liberals want for everything else in society?

MMBinNC is living proof that not everyone who goes to a top tier University is particularly bright or capable of enunciating his or herself in a reasonable way. The argument above is juvenile, but after meeting my fair share of purely moronic Harvard, Princeton and Yale students, I am actually not surprised.

First, how was the morality better? This was a decade where 13% of the population was treated like subhumans? How was the education better? Would you dare try to back up your bold faced lie with graduation rates, AP classes taken and aptitude test performance? How about a decade where women who couldn't pay to raise their kids were forced to have them regardless? How about a decade where Eisenhower started the Vietnam war, a war that kills 10s of thousands of Americans and at least 5 million Vietnamese? Was that moral? O, how about the start of drug prohibition? Was that moral? Or the start of the waste of trillions on nukes, weapons designed to wipe out millions of people with a push of a button? That must have been moral.

Are you really trying to argue that corporal punishment is the reason why educational performance has gone down? Are they letting monkeys into Duke now? I went to a high school, in NJ, with 95%+ graduation rate. More than half of all the students took AP classes. By your logic, our collective good academic performance must have been the result of getting our asses stomped by burly teachers we respected, right? The top high school in America is Thomas Jefferson High School of Science and Technology; guess how many times the teachers are allowed to paddle and beat their students: 0!!! Was that why you did well in high school? Because some teacher would kick the shit out of you to keep your retard ass in line?

By your logic, we could correct schools in notable ghettos like Camden, NJ by beating the students!!! Ohhh the possibilities. No more trying to improve education by improving education or by making parents accountable. MMBinNC solution to bad education problems in these notable cities:

Philadelphia = body slam
Brooklyn = uppercut
Roxbury = body shot
Los Angeles = choke hold
St Louis = throat shot
Baton Rouge = armbar
Camden = flying knee

Do you honestly think it is the "liberals" who ended corporal punishment? Have you ever heard of a lawsuit? Unless in your little pea brain lawsuits are a liberal tool. Secondly, I want you to go into a high school and beat the students. If a teacher were to put their hands on me I would have followed them into the parking lot and beat them to the point where they couldn't find their ass with both hands and a flashlight.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment.
-Styles P

Sep 4, 2011

@MMBinNC:

Just looked at your profile and realized that you are a 21 year old college student. Not even going to bother debating you at this point.

@Jimbo:

My point was that you can't simply look back at an era that took place 40 years before you were born, ignore all the awful shit about society, and prop it up as some fantastic era that we should look to for guidance. It must be hard to walk around all day with such a small brain.

Sep 4, 2011

@TheKing: I'm glad that those 5 years that you have on me has given you infinite wisdom. I don't see how this has anything to do with the topic, as neither one of us was alive in the 1950s. I'm not debating you on a finance topic, I'm not stupid enough to go outside my knowledge zone of politics and novice stock trading.

Reality hits you hard, bro...

Sep 4, 2011

Don't worry MMB, I'm older than you an King and I think you know your shit. Anyone who dismisses a persona point because they are a little older doesn't have much of an argument to begin with.

Sep 5, 2011

Hmm...how was the education better? Graduation rates and SAT scores do not prove anything, due to the rampant grade inflation today. If you want to say that the fact that 43% of all grades are A's in college is due to the fact that people today are so much smarter than in the past...I have no words for you. The fact that you are comparing the top school in America...a charter/magnet school where people have to apply to be admitted with public schools that force people to learn that do not want to is asinine. The fact that a teacher has no recourse other than a metaphorical slap on the wrist for an offending student (can't be literally- that's corporal punishment) is ridiculous. If a student has parents that are accountable that is one situation, but many of these kids have personal family life failings. Therefore a "note from the Principal" will do nothing. Expelling them will only force a larger burden on them- and in many places expelling students is now illegal.

Your argument against the decline morality is completely unjustifiable. The Vietnam War was started for a dumb reason, but that does not mean that it had anything to do with morality. Sometimes war is justifiable. The War on Drugs thing is also retarded, because it continues today in an even greater capacity. Abortion being illegal doesn't mean women had to "keep their kids". It shouldn't even be an option to kill a child when there are thousands of people looking to adopt. I am taking primarily about personal morality. The crime rate is higher today and the general safety of the American citizen is lower.

Why do you consider people with differing opinions to be dumb? It is ridiculous. If I wanted to I could call you out on your education, ethnicity, views etc., but that has no relation to the argument at hand. Up unti this post I at least respected your arguments, but now between this and TheKing's post I guess the only (kinda) liberal I respect the on here is awm... (of the ones that post a lot)

Reality hits you hard, bro...

Sep 5, 2011
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I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment.
-Styles P

Sep 5, 2011
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Reality hits you hard, bro...

Sep 5, 2011
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If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford