Thoughts on Hunter & Joe Biden Ukranian / Chinese influence controversy?

I would imagine most Trump voters are probably following this closely after this past week's slow roll releases. I'd be very interested in hearing from the Biden, Libertarian/Independent, or undecided/non-voters. Please share any sources doing an in-depth covering while providing commentary or a good source for counter evidence beyond chalking it up to more "secret Russia manipulation." The Russia-gate card has been put through the shredder twice now so let's just move along. The scariest thing was the response from the media + Facebook and Twitter when the story broke. Immediately blocking both the NYPost and official government websites/accounts that were discussing the story in a news expose / investigation context on the grounds of unsubstantiated "hacked content." This when they've been running with numerous stories (like Trump's tax returns) that included data illicitly obtained by their own self-made definitions.

All I've seen so far just seems suuuuus as hell. The morning this all broke Hunter's lawyer contacted the shop owner asking for the hard drive back, confirming its existence. Watching Biden's entire town hall live I was shocked there wasn't a single question asking about it. When his campaign was finally asked specifically about meeting with the Burisma exec, we get this:

"We have reviewed Joe Biden's official schedules from the time and no meeting, as alleged by the New York Post, ever took place," said Biden campaign spokesman Andrew Bates in a statement.

 

Biden's campaign would not rule out the possibility that the former VP had some kind of informal interaction with Pozharskyi, which wouldn't appear on Biden's official schedule. But they said any encounter would have been cursory.

When he was finally asked about it to his face, we get Biden Slams CBS Reporter For Asking About The Hunter Biden Scandal. This is way bigger than the court packing issue so this isn't something he'll just get to keep refusing to give an answer on "until after the election." I mean, come on man.

Giuliani is far from perfect. He's definitely a crazy old man. But aside from being the NYC Mayor during 9/11, we should at the very least recognize he was without a doubt one of the best mod-busters of the 80s. If there's only one thing that this man has ever done well, it's identify and help prosecute crime families.

If we can all admit Trump is an overly boisterous, egotistical man-child whose personality is utterly unbecoming for the office. That many of his methods are crude, in some cases completely ineffective, and we share a nearly universal hate of his affinity for Twitter. Can we also admit a broken clock can be right twice a day?

The guy who's been in Politics for ~50 years and literally runs campaign ads about how he was average middle class but is now a multi-millionaire is probably more politically dirty than the guy that's been in the game for less than 4 years. It's pretty clear who the institutions prefer, which I would think anyone that truly believes the big bad Wall Street and other institutions are the problem should be a bit dissuaded by. This whole thing when we look back at the Ukrainian aid and fired prosecutor who has previously sworn he was looking into political corruption with Busirma is more relevant now. Especially when that was the original defense used vs the media parade of an impeachment scandal. This final debate is going to be JUICY.

Comments (48)

 
Oct 17, 2020 - 4:04pm

Trump is a creature of ego born to be an attention grabbing spectacle in the 80s and 90s media age that transitioned perfectly into the social media meme-dominated modern day. Joe Biden is part of the old establishment alive and kicking, which is why he had the entire party fall in line from the very start this time around after failing multiple previous runs for pretty substantial reasons. Neither is what America will need going forward, we need radical change in both parties to correct more towards the middle than further partisanship otherwise it's only going to get worse, but I think it's fair to say they're definitely what we deserve at this point.

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Oct 17, 2020 - 6:02pm

Just pretend we're not even saying this person is Democrat or Republican, it's just a politician in any country. Explain to me in what universe the board of a gigantic energy company in another country, that is dependent on your nations military aid to the tune of $1B, is going to hire someone with 0 relevant work experience with a known drug problem to consult for $50k a month. Describe what universe it is not suspicious that this drug addict's father is a powerful politician for the aid giving country with decades of accumulated political pull, who has been caught on tape boasting about getting a federal prosecutor fired that has sworn publicly he was investigating the very company that politician's son was consulting with for political corruption. How is this not worth deeply investigating when there is potentially credible new evidence that links the very conflict of interest that proves this happened. Then tying it back to the impeachment trial which was entirely based around the idea that this event did not happen.

Then rope in the swift and violent response to halt the spread of the story from major social media and refusal to acknowledge or outright deny it for several days when given multiple opportunities. Is this not exactly the thing people like Elizabeth Warren have been warning about big tech coming in and doing?

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Oct 17, 2020 - 5:50pm

Empty? He's been holding it and decided to release it now to create the most meaningful impact, yes it's blatantly political but that doesn't automatically make it untrue. I seriously thought that they had something on Trump and Russian Collusion for the longest time, but that all fell flat. How is this not just exactly the same thing that's been getting done to Trump for 3+ years now just the other direction. The FBI has had this LONGER than he did and yet not a peep of it ever came up during impeachment. That seems a bit odd no?

If NOTHING about this story seems to be incredibly suspicious on the Biden side you must also think Epstein really killed himself don't you?

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Oct 18, 2020 - 4:01pm

I am entirely of the opinion that there should be an investigation similar to Meuller's into the affair. If they find nothing truly incriminating Biden, then people need to drop it and respect the verdict. Biden will be able to claim innocence, just like Trump has the right to do now. But your comment saying that the investigation into Trump fell flat is only partly true; the investigation yielded multiple indictments and multiple arrests, and clearly showed the kind of people Trump had been associating with throughout his campaign.

 
Oct 17, 2020 - 6:41pm

I'm pretty un-phased by the whole thing. Trump has completely aired out and made mainstream how dirty politics actually is, but we've always known this. Another case of quid-pro-quo? I just don't give a shit. You could probably blame Trump for that de-sensitization. "Political scandal" has just become so normalized. I don't think this will have the effect that the Trump Campaign is hoping for.

 
Oct 17, 2020 - 7:22pm

This is coming from someone who is by today's standards pretty politically agnostic....but the fact that this can't be discussed without just bringing POTUS up is disconcerting. I am not saying it to be sarcastic, I'm saying it because I do not think our country has the ability to use judgement or interpret information if their brains always just race to something POTUS did or said.

Tbh these emails would be no different if Mickey Mouse was in the WH. They should be viewed in isolation.

 
Oct 18, 2020 - 12:05pm

I'm sorry that you interpreted my comment as an opportunity to slander our sitting president. This was not my intention. I am trying to highlight a novel phenomenon that I've attributed to the Trump era of politics - a level of desensitization for these political bombshell revelations that in another era, would have taken a candidate to their knees. Albeit a bit drunk / crass, I go on to bet that given this desensitization, I believe this story will have little effect on voter's hitting the booth this season.

You're policing my comment, stating your political affiliation and nothing more in your response. You're adding zero value to this thread.

 
Oct 17, 2020 - 7:57pm

Was Biden involved with Ukraine in shady dealings? Potentially, but only time will tell the full truth. As for the laptop storyline? I'm not buying it.  So Hunter (or someone very close to him) physically saved transcripts of these emails onto his or her hard drive, saved photos of Hunter smoking marijuana (not sure if it is illegal where he is or not), and then just casually dropped of the laptop at a repair shop and never returned? People get laptops repaired because a laptop is broken, and they need it for daily use. The idea that someone just "forgot" about a laptop seems off. On top of that Rudy has been repeatedly saying how he is going to get Trump "past the finish line." Now all of a sudden this "laptop" comes out of nowhere? I personally think it is quite possible that someone did hack into Hunter's computer. Maybe someone even heard "under the table" about what was going on and hired a hacker to pull out concrete information. That being said Big Tech has no right to dismiss and block a developing story that is undergoing verification. Its time that these firms actually face consequences for what they are doing. As for any impact on the election? I doubt it will mean much materially. It will make an interesting final debate but that's about it. Biden could get impeached while in office if he wins, although I think many would prefer him to Harris and just leave it at what it is. 

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Oct 17, 2020 - 8:16pm

IncomingIBDreject

Was Biden involved with Ukraine in shady dealings? Potentially, but only time will tell the full truth. As for the laptop storyline? I'm not buying it.  So Hunter (or someone very close to him) physically saved transcripts of these emails onto his or her hard drive, saved photos of Hunter smoking marijuana (not sure if it is illegal where he is or not), and then just casually dropped of the laptop at a repair shop and never returned? People get laptops repaired because a laptop is broken, and they need it for daily use. The idea that someone just "forgot" about a laptop seems off. On top of that Rudy has been repeatedly saying how he is going to get Trump "past the finish line." Now all of a sudden this "laptop" comes out of nowhere? I personally think it is quite possible that someone did hack into Hunter's computer. Maybe someone even heard "under the table" about what was going on and hired a hacker to pull out concrete information. That being said Big Tech has no right to dismiss and block a developing story that is undergoing verification. Its time that these firms actually face consequences for what they are doing. As for any impact on the election? I doubt it will mean much materially. It will make an interesting final debate but that's about it. Biden could get impeached while in office if he wins, although I think many would prefer him to Harris and just leave it at what it is. 

You're really showing how sheltered you are if you think that thing is Hunter's mouth is anything other than a crack pipe. Stemming just from that, it's easy to believe a dumb crackhead son is capable of flubbing up just about anything. You can't rely on a crackhead, that's why no one actively hires them. Except of course giant Ukrainian energy companies apparently, at least when they're the sons of VPs who can eliminate regulatory pressure for them.

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Oct 17, 2020 - 10:55pm

Pretty startling how the leftist mainstream media has been gaslighting Americans for years about how the Biden/Ukraine collusion is a DeBuNkEd conspiracy theory. And now, when the evidence can no longer be denied (and the media can no longer can get away with calling the story an illegitimate conspiracy, classic leftist tactic), big tech steps in to CENSOR the story off of their platforms lmaooooo 

 

Bruh, imagine if this were Donald Trump's son, using his father's position in power to fuck with foreign affairs in order to enrich himself... so absurd 

 
Oct 17, 2020 - 11:20pm

Honestly, I don't know much about this because the only source willing to report is FOX and other right wing media (like how only sources willing to report Russia hate stuff was liberal media).

But I see 2 possibilities. 1) It's as futile as Russiagate. Or 2) it's kind of true, but then look at all the shot Trump did so no one's really gonna bat an eye.

 

Either way, it's a huge lose for America that both candidates are involved in some serious (potential) scandal.

 
Oct 18, 2020 - 12:39am

Except for the fact that Trump's Russia collusion scandal has been debunked. Notice how the Dems don't bring it up any more. In the case of Biden, it hasn't been debunked yet and he hasn't definitively denied it yet either. The two aren't the same. You're right though that few will bat an eye. It's unfortunate how polarized media has become. 

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Oct 18, 2020 - 10:47am

The russian collusion scandal has not been debunked.  Prosecutors have to make a judgement call as to whether there is enough evidence to prosecute and given that the DOJ takes the position that a sitting POTUS cannot be indicted, the whole process is flawed. 

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Oct 18, 2020 - 11:49am

IncomingIBDreject

Except for the fact that Trump's Russia collusion scandal has been debunked. Notice how the Dems don't bring it up any more. In the case of Biden, it hasn't been debunked yet and he hasn't definitively denied it yet either. The two aren't the same. You're right though that few will bat an eye. It's unfortunate how polarized media has become. 

Why do you think I said this? 

"But I see 2 possibilities. 1) It's as futile as Russiagate. Or 2) it's kind of true, but then look at all the shot Trump did so no one's really gonna bat an eye."

 

 
Oct 18, 2020 - 10:23am

I am pretty sure that for the current POTUS, it would not be a good strategy to take the moral high ground by diminishing your opponent and his family.  

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Oct 18, 2020 - 11:08am

So, let's recap 

- Hunter Biden flies across the country with his three broken MacBooks (instead of just turning them to some Apple store in LA) 

- Delivers them to some blind repair guy in a small shop, who could not identify Hunter. 

- Hunter nor his assistants pick them up, before returning home to LA 

- Repair guy decides the laptops must belong to Hunter, because of some sticker on the laptop. 

- Repair guy discovers lots of incriminating data on laptops, and contacts the FBI - who in turn come and go, and at one point contacts the repair guy and ask him to help them accessing the data (?). But not before the repair guy decided to copy all drives. 

- Repair guy then decides to contact Rudy Giuliani, who in turn just sits on the copied data.

- Instead if turning the data to the FBI, Rudy decides to leak the information to news papers. 

I mean, is that where we are? Is this the smoking gun Rudy is trying to push? 

 

What's the more likely scenario - that the above is true, or that Rudy simply got duped, in his desperate search for anything

 
Oct 18, 2020 - 11:55am

Not to be facetious but can't discount that at the time he was addicted to crack. You're viewing this through the lens of what a reasonable person would do. To be honest, I also think it is more likely that he would use a no-name repair shop than to drop it off at Apple. The Senate homeland committee is in touch with the person who provided the materials in order to validate what is and what is not true. The FBI also neither confirmed nor denied that there is an investigation. I'm guessing you will write this off, but this goes into much further depth than you are providing here. https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/HSGAC_Finance_Report_FINAL.p…

I am really not sure how people are writing off a Ukrainian energy company paying the son of the Vice President of the US $50k per month to consult for them when he has no background in energy, at all. Clearly, this was done because of his father's role. I would have to assume you have never been offered $600k annually to consult on behalf of a Ukrainian energy company. Does this mean anything improper happened? Who knows, I won't offer my opinion. Is it worth looking into? I would say so. The notion that we should just completely write it off is a little insane. 

 

 
Oct 18, 2020 - 4:11pm

I'm not taking a side necessarily, but I think there is a middle ground in which you accept that the circumstances surrounding the evidence are quite sketchy in terms of how they were obtained, which inherently brings into question their legitimacy. However, while acknowledging this, you can also accept that if there is indeed something to it, then it deserves investigation, and because there could in fact be something there it should then definitely be investigated. My personal guess is that yes there is sketchy shit going on, but will Biden himself be directly linked to it? I personally feel that is unlikely. 

 
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Oct 18, 2020 - 4:27pm

Stuff like this is why people who say they're for Biden because he represents some sort of return to "normalcy", "decency", and "decorum" are morons who don't actually care about gross corruption in our government, but just want things to go back to before when our politicians kept their corruption secret, and think covering this up with airy, polished world salad means acting "presidential" or some such trite. The way these people rehabilitated George Bush is further evidence of this. "Unjustified, unwinnable wars and domestic surveillance are okay, but Trump is bad because he says mean things".

The US has been beholden to foreign powers for several decades now (Israel, Saudi Arabia, China, Mexico, etc.), and our elite class is basically as depraved and as corrupt as they come. 

If Trump pushed the exact same policies he's been doing all his presidency, but looked and talked like a normal politician, nobody would care about him at all.

 
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Oct 18, 2020 - 9:45pm

Vote for Trump because he brings all of this out in the open, which means he can be a catalyst for further change and disruption. You don't have to like Trump, but he is the exact sort of "fuck you" this global, liberal-cosmopolitan corporate nightmare we live in needs. The ideal scenario would be to unite both left- and right-wing populists (basically the Bernie and Trump crowds) into a common people's movement based on shared economic and cultural interest against globalization, the financialization of our economy, and culturally-destructive woke crap. But that means the Joe Bidens, Mitt Romneys, Paul Ryans, Michael Bloombergs, Sheldon Adelsons, etc. of the world need to go down.

And yes, I recognize it is odd that someone in banking would hold such populist views, but hey sometimes your career path is weird like that.

 
Oct 18, 2020 - 6:39pm

There is no reasonably intelligent conclusion of this story that ends in any way other than "obvious disinformation".

First, you have the story itself which defies any and all logic. I'm a firm believer in Occam's razor, and a story that involves a guy flying cross country with three laptops and then driving while under the influence to a random independently owner laptop repair shop that just happens to be owned by a blind guy who is also a HUGE trump supporter, instead of an apple store anywhere near where he lived, and then forgets about them (despite having incriminating evidence on them) is not one that passes a test of reasonableness. Then there's the fact that this guy just happened to think it was Hunter because of the sticker but he never saw Hunter, but regardless of that, decided to copy the data. Or that the PDF's of the emails happened to be made months after the laptop was supposedly abandoned - so I guess the owner forgot about it too? 

Second, you have that the store owner himself changed his story multiple times on how this ended up in the FBI's hands vs Rudy's hands. He also once said he saw Hunter then another time said he didn't see Hunter but knew it was him because of a sticker. 

Third, we have already known for months that Russia was actively looking to work with Rudy Giuliani to spread disinformation - in fact the intelligence community literally warned the White House that Rudy was dealing with a Russian spy. Something we know several members of the 2016 Trump team did, as well. And that the intelligence community has already linked this to potentially part of those dealings. 

And probably most importantly, the underlying story about Biden and corruption in Ukraine has been investigated by House Republicans multiple times and they have yet to come up with a single piece of evidence that suggests any wrong doing. In fact, even the view on the conservative side of the aisle when Shokin was replaced was that Shokin was ALLOWING corruption, not investigating it. The only "source" of wrong doing, before Donald Trump picked up the assertion, was a book published by an editor at Breitbart. 

Finally, you can add to this that it also came out today that the NY Post were unable to find a single piece of evidence or a witness other than Rudy Guiliani and Steve Bannon, and that most of the writers that contributed refused to put their names on the byline (other than the one who is an outward far right wing activist). 

The reality is, considering the facts of the story, it's not surprising that the only people taking it seriously are the ones who have a vested interest in it being true or, at least, vested interest that they can convince some low information voters to think it might be true. Luckily, we are getting at least a little better at dealing with obvious disinformation, though we still have a long way to go. And unfortunately, I expect we'll continue to have "leaks" over the next few weeks that are continually more outrageous and unsubstantiated, but straight out of the playbook of 2016 when they got James Comey to basically be the deciding voice of the election. 

 
Oct 18, 2020 - 9:45pm

I mean, the two veteran reporters refused to have their name attached to this in fear of their reputation being tainted, but I have been following to see if anything comes of it. I do agree with some posters here that have said how said political corruption is. I'd be much more surprised to see a very clean presidential candidate than a starkly corrupt.

 
Oct 18, 2020 - 9:45pm

I could be wrong but didn't a republican led senate committee conclude, for VP Biden, there was no evidence of wrongdoing?

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