Going from BB to second-tier/MM
I left a career in another industry to join a non-traditional team at a BB reporting to a well-known equities MD. However, it has become clear on the basis of comp and lack of clear progression that I am seen as being in a support function in spite of having a lot of behind-the-scenes responsibility. I have complained to my manager and have been told I have nothing to worry about, have a great career ahead, need to be patient in a new industry. But it's now been nearly two years of "second-class treatment" and I've had enough. I've been talking to headhunters and given my manager's stature, a lot of places have been willing to interview me for equity sales as well as research positions over the last few months. But they have been the likes of Macquarie, Jefferies, RBS, Piper Jaffray, HSBC. I'm pretty confident that an offer will materialize after bonus season (especially from the MM firms), but I feel a tinge of regret about leaving a top firm without having established myself. I've recently spoken confidentially to some internal MDs about my career frustrations and they tell me that there will be opportunities internally and patience is needed, etc. but I have an immediate manager who is quite powerful, unsupportive and rather dishonest. This just makes me feel that there is little hope for an internal transfer any time soon. Would you bail out, or try to stick it out and hope for an internal opportunity?
I think trusting your instincts, and not having regrets, is key. Seems to me like the firm is using you, judging from what you've written, I'd bail.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with any of the firms you mentioned, there are a ton of people at those firms making ridiculous money; I don't get how people say "BB or bust"; that's retarded.
BB or bust
Love the irony here
wait until you have an offer and then use it: 1) as a backup plan: contact HR and ask about internal transfer. Ask manager about internal transfer. If it backfires you have an offer to fall back on. It likely won't backfire. 2) as a negotiating tool: i have offer to join xx at xyz. If i can't join xx here i will be leaving for xyz.
So are you in IB? We cant tell from your post. If its not IB then its actually a better switch to go to MM IB
Many people had too much patience and passed on good opps, whereas others didn't have enough and left, not knowing that there's a better position opening for them at their old firm. Switching jobs is always a risk and is a much harder decision than what we think of it while still in college.
That being said, I'd strongly consider why many people at your current BB are asking you to be patient. You should know that the door to MM will always be open to you, but it's not necessarily true the other way around. Therefore, I'd consider waiting it out.
As far as MM shops, I can only speak about IBD, but the only people who realize how frustrating it is to work for them sometimes are the people in the MM themselves. Kids in college sometimes think "$100K+ / year is still a good job", whereas the people from the bulge sometimes give the MMs too much credit and respect. But those in actual MMs know that lateral mobility and exit opps are drastically different in MMs.
Thanks very much for the feedback. To clarify, I am not in IBD but in a team that is an adjunct to equity research. I take your point about exit opps in MMs, but on the positive side, I sense that I would be given a lot more responsibility at a Jefferies or a Piper whereas the role would be more narrow at the bigger financial groups. I am not very optimistic about an attractive internal opportunity materializing soon because my manager does not support me in any way (if I am not working for him, he could not care less if I stay at the firm) and there are few MDs who want the trouble of confronting him to recruit me to their teams.
How old are you?
If you can get a good, FO job at one of those other firms, like an HSBC, than that sounds like a good idea to me... if your boss is an asshole he's likely to stay that way.
Don't watch yourself waste your life away...
Later downgrade from BB---------->MM or Regional Boutique (Originally Posted: 04/14/2015)
Would it be fairly easy to lateral from a BB non-traditional IBD group such as, DCM, ECM, or Public Finance, to M&A or an industry coverage group at either a MM or regional boutique. This lateral would probably be after one year of experience (post undergrad), and I would not mind starting as a first year analyst. This is also assuming relevant internship experience.
I know lateraling from these positions to other BBs can be difficult, but I don't downgrading significantly in terms of "prestige".
Hmmm...I have no idea, but I am interested in hearing someone answer this
is DCM/ECM really that boring? Am wondering why you want to move
Yes, this is possible - just make sure you can give good reasons and are convincing when asked why you want to move.
No, not boring at all actually. I was just interested in getting into an investing role eventually, and I feel that Public Finance/DCM/ECM do not teach you some of the skills necessary for these roles.
Going from a BB to a Lower-Tier Bank (Originally Posted: 04/01/2011)
Would you leave a BB for a lower-tier bank if your group is not what you want to do and the pay is lower?
if its ECM or DCM, yes. Otherwise no
depends, need more information.
this transition is common at a more senior level in order to advance your career more quickly. for example, VPs at BBs will transition over to "lower-tier" banks for increased comp, higher title, and perhaps lifestyle reasons. if you're an analyst, it doesn't really make any sense.
This is IBD. The reason for leaving is: a) Not the group I want to be in b) Haven't done anything meaning there in over a year!
I think it depends on how much lower the bank is and if the group you are moving to is your #1 choice. The BB will give you a better resume and probably more deals, but if the group is exactly where you want to spend your career then it will be worth it because you can establish yourself in this new area/group and build your career from there.
are you going from a middle-BB to a lower-tier bank like Evercore, Lazard, Greenhill? or from GS/MS to an unknown lower-tier?
More like the former rather than the latter
Always better to think long term, not short term. But short term is important too if you are miserable.
thoughts on lateraling from NYC BB to Regional Office/ MM (Originally Posted: 06/30/2015)
Hey guys,
Long time reader and first time poster. I am currently in the middle of my SA internship with a BB up in New York. I've been thinking a lot about FT and decided that I do not like NYC and would rather be in the south ( Atlanta BC family from there). I'm interning at a mid tier BB (think CS, Barclays, UBS, etc.).
What are your thoughts on moving to a STRH/ WF or a regional BB office? Is it worth the move? Or should I stay up in NYC? I want to be in th South long term but don't know if the experience at a BB in NYC outweighs my geographic preference.
Any and all thoughts are appreciated.
None of this really matters if you do not get that return offer. That should be your number one priority (not saying that it is not already).
Your decision will depend on your long-term career goals. If your end goal is PE, this move will hurt you. CS, Barclays, and UBS all place better into PE than WF and SunTrust do. Being in NY will also benefit you as far as networking opportunities and access to headhunters is concerned. That being said, there is more to life than exit opportunities and prestige. Better hours, location, firm and group culture, etc. are all too often overlooked on WSO. PE is not exactly a long-term career, but intangibles like location will always matter.
Get the offer first and then determine what is more important to you.
What is your opinion on being in a BB regional office vs head office in NYC?
You can make a case for both. At the head office, you will be in contact with the senior most bankers and most likely your group's heads. Some regional offices may do more pitching than execution. You just need to weigh what is more important to your personally.
One thing you might want to do if you want to move to the buyside is look up some firms that you could see yourself at and see where their junior guys came from.
Trading BB job for MM. (Originally Posted: 09/17/2006)
Hey, folks. My staffer needs to hire another analyst immediately. This is top BB, large and very busy industry group, tons of work being done, great shot at top tier bonus (one of our MDs heads the compensation committee). We're interviewing this week. I'm willing to help you target your resume for this particular staffer and essentially work to get you hired. Again, this is for an immediate start, so nobody currently in college would work (unless perhaps you're graduating in December; we could wait that long).
What I would like in return is a solid contact with recruiters/staffers in a MM/boutique i-bank, hedge fund, PE shop, research shop, or similar. This will be for my fiance, who has a Series 7, an ivy-league education and relevant experience in running and marketing hedge funds/mutual funds. (The reason he's not BB material is because he refuses to toe the corporate line, plus he's a little older.) The more you can do for me, the more I can do for you. All we're looking to do is to break him back into the industry in NYC.
Anyway, drop me an email at [email protected] if you're interested.
i would really use a different email address, unless of course thats not your name
Duh.
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