If you get an interview with these guys, get ready for thirty minutes of math, and one hour of logic (tests). They'll also be asking you about option pricing theory, and current market conditions. If you wanna know what they trade, they've got that on their site, which is AWESOME. These guys are good, I'd even compare them to Optiver. They're expanding their Euro, and Asian operations. They're tough, and if you're weak, they'll weed you out, so bring your A-Game.

NYC HERE I FCUKING COME.

Very much like Jane Street/Optiver. No US branch though. You should know your math well, especially probability stuff.

Hmm so you're saying it's a prop firm that trades it's own capital not one of those prop shops that lets people to trade their own money with leverage. How exactly does working at a prop firm like this or Jane Street,etc work? Does it compare to a quant hedge fund? What do traders do, what do quants do? How does comp compare? Thx for any info, don't know much about this area...

I'll lay it out for you:

"Prop" is short for "propitiatory", that means a Propitiatory Trading Firm ("Prop Shop") trades IT'S OWN capital.

A Quantitative Hedge Fund, like all hedge funds trades the capital of INVESTORS.

You mention "prop shops that lets people to trade their own money with leverage". Those are called "arcades", or "trading arcades". They should best be avoided, although there are a few exceptions in which "arcade traders" can make substantial profits for him/herself.

There are a VERY WIDE variety of trading strategies associated with a hedge fund, some of these are Global Macro, Quantitative, Fundamental, Event-Driven, etc. Different kinds of funds demand different skills sets. For example, a quantitative fund will want econ, math, hard sciences, computer science students, and number crunchers. An event driven fund/fundemental fund will require more research, and due diligence abilities. It should also be noted that former investment bankers are able to transfer their skills to a fundemental/event driven fund.

Prop shops are also very diverse. They trade many different types of products. These range from simple stocks/stock options (aka equities), to extremely complex derivatives (these are instruments that derive their value from an underlying asset , or basket of assets) such as any commodity derivs, or CDOs, and Swaptions.

Traders: They trade financial instruments for their respective entities. In a prop shop, traders take a portion of their Profit & Loss (P&L, PnL), as well as a salary.

Quants: They do a variety of things, from asset portfolio management, structured transactions, physical and financial trading, risk management, model development,and programming black boxes. You generally need a computer science, physics, or a math degree.

Comp differs fund to fund. The most elite prop shops (Jane Street, First New York, SIG) pay a salary that rivals BB IBD bases. Quantitative funds pay very large packages as well, but they almost always come with a "non-compete", which is WAY too complicated to explain.

There are plenty of online resources on these matters. In "Trader's Train", there is a huge thread on top prop shops. There's a site called Nuclear Phynance that caters to the quant communitty, and of course, Elite Trader for active traders.

Hope this helps.

NYC HERE I FCUKING COME.

ahh I should have been more specific. I'm asking this from the perspective of someone working at a quant HF already. I guess my main question is on the distinction between traders and quants at these firms ... are traders generally execution traders or do they have discretion? Do they develop quant trading models (generally what a trader does at most quant fund afaik) or is that what the quants do?

my confusion stems from the "hey bro yer gonna be trading the markets and playing foosball!" marketing some of these places have on their websites which makes it sound like those day trading arcades you described.

also interested in hearing more about differences between working at HF and prop shop ...

Traders at prop shops have discretion. Traders at quant funds don't. The quants develop models. Traders (anywhere) don't develop anything. Think about it this way: quants are nerds, traders are jocks.

Concerning the foosball, some firms do have super awesome perks, such as DRW Trading. Just wondering, are you a junior yet?

NYC HERE I FCUKING COME.

right... so if the traders at prop shops have discretion but they don't develop models what do they do? trade on guts? some sort of grey box stuff?

ook maybe i should have also limited this thread to those w/ industry exp and not dipshit college kids who can't even spell 'proprietary.' finding your replies entertaining though. lolz

still interested in value-added responses to this topic from someone knowledgeable. lol

A grey box is a mechanical trading system which the basis for buy/sell signals is explained because you know whats going on to generate the signal.

Spaceship I hope your pnl is as big as your ego.

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.

As much as you criticize spaceship, I think that he did a good job with his explanation so thank you... At least I appreciate the effort :)

Yeah dude (sorry, should I be calling you "sir" because of your ivy roots? excuse me.. .coughdouchbag*cough...)

That's not a simple spelling error, that's you not knowing what word to use. Sound it out.. I don't know how "pro-preye-uh-tear-ee" could possibly be spelled that way. And you spelled it that way twice in a row. Too funny... maybe Princeton should have told you how to spell?

You're seriously going to come to this board letting people know that you'll "lay it out for them" and that you, as a kid RIGHT out of college, are a "million times more qualified" than some random stranger who posted up on an internet forum? It sounds like you have a serious case of thinking you are the shit, when in fact you are a nobody.

All of you fresh graduates are on the same level and have a LOT to learn about finance. Give it a couple years (if you make it that long, with your douch-y, holier-than-thou attitude) and you'll look back and think "wow, I really didn't know shit when I just graduated college."

Piece of advice for you: don't come to Wall Street and act like a shitstain on the earth's shoe (see your previous posts.) You will piss people off and eventually, will likely lose your job.

I'll let my boys at SIG and Shaw know to keep an eye out for your qualifications. Can't be too many people with those specific attributes applying. Think about it, you just gave 5 very specific references, each of which you likely use on your resume.

Best of luck. You'll need it... I wouldn't hire you, or if you did work for me, I would send your ass out faster than you can say "ivy."

Well put associate.

Now Millhouse/Jack you see why I said I hope his PNL is as big as his ego.

Spaceship I would like to offer you some advice... You need to become much more humble if you want to make it as a trader. Dude you have done all the right things and you are now in the game. Congrats, you have a ton of things going for you but you DO have a fatal flaw that is going to hold you back as a trader and thats your ego.

I really hope that when your trading that you are able to separate your ego from the task at hand. Getting into the game is the first step... building a track record via your PNL is where the real hurdle is.

This just shows you that an interview is by no means a catch all. There are a litany of red flags you are spewing in this post alone.

Before you spit something back at me honestly I am only trying to help you. You kinda remind me of myself before I was trading. I thought I had it all figured out and was going to start trading and the money would flood in. Once you realize you are nothing special then and only then will you be able to progress.

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.

Hah I see that now.

Don't you remember good old LondenE1? If not let me refresh your memory. He came on this bored insulting people left and right thinking that he was better than them. After about two months he gave away enough information about himself, that someone contacted Black rock (or stone I don't remember nor care) about him and he was told by THEM to close down his account and apologize. Granted his apology was a piece of shit and was riddled with derogatory comments, nevertheless he got fucked and now is pegged as an asshole at that place. Most likely going to result in him NOT getting an offer.

Memory lane trip #2... about 1-3 weeks ago!!! Kid comes on the board basically shitting on ops and tech. Talking about how that they all smell and all this other moronic shit. Well MR big shot made a few mistakes (tell me if this sounds familiar to you), he told us where he was going to work, other tidbits of personal info, his profile had his B-day, and also his school and major. Two days later I check my pm box with the kid begging me to take down the personal information that was posted about him. Someone got his name, his position for this summer, and I think towards the end the picture he posted on the intern portal.

Moral of both stories is this, if you start shit and put people down; prepare for the consequences that follow. Finance is a very small world, and while you remain anonymous on this board, IF someone finds out who you are (and they prob can now due to your post) then you could basically fuck yourself or piss off someone to fuck you over.... Good luck dude.. seems like you're going to fucking need it.

P.S- if you do PM me I will be nice enough to take down your info if you want.

P.P.S- Out of all those interviews, how many offers did you actually get?

Hahahahaha! Spaceship, no response?

I don't really mind egos like that actually. Just makes more money available on the other side of the trade.

What a fucking tool.

Ouch! Owned. I am SURE someone here will take the time to send all of this stuff to a few hedge funds.

*

Spaceship's first comment on this thread was explanatory and helpful towards the OP, I thought. Then in a later post he got arrogant towards the OP saying no one could be this stupid. Then someone called him out on his spelling, which is not the first time that has happened I bet, and he got angry and made the list about himself and his achievments. Trade4size gave you good advice Spaceship. Less ego/arrogance and people will cut you slack on your spelling errors, and your anger won't lead you to make the mistake you cautioned dipset about last month (see below).

well if dipset doesn't wanna by Spaceship (Baboon, 114 Banana Points Points) on 4/14/09 at 5:11pm

well if dipset doesn't wanna get ID'd he shouldn't brag about his "accomplishments" to random strangers on an internet forum, that's what friends are for. if some people on this site brag THIS much to anonymous strangers, imagine how annoying they are to people they ACTUALLY KNOW. plus, i doubt that londonE1 works at blackstone, judging by the dumbassness of some of his posts. if one actually worked for a place like BX, im sure they'd be WAY more careful about it.

Alright, I fold. Will an admin please take down my information, please? I apologize for being such and arrogant, and egotistical douche. Please understand, however that I'm not doing this because I'm a nice, apologetic person. I'm doing this because I posted some information that may come back to haunt me in my search for a job, either now or in the future. Also, I will remain a member of this forum, if only to help people who want to get into the same industry as I (I still believe I have knowledge that could help other WallStreetOasis members obtain a job).

Can we end this war? And get back to talking about Tibra?

Spaceship you said, "I apologize for being such and arrogant, and egotistical douche."

Well said and well done.

Then you said, "Please understand, however that I'm not doing this because I'm a nice, apologetic person," and went on to give other self-centered reasons for doing it.

Other posters picked up on this and continued their bitchiness.

Spaceship, you said it because "nice and apologetic" in your mind translates to "weak" and you don't want to see yourself that way.
It doesn't mean weak, where/who taught you that?
You are not the only person on these forums who thinks that way of course, but this is so obvious (to me) in this thread and you can benefit from the insight that I thought I'd mention it.