Tiger Cubs

I wanted to ping the WSO community and see if there are any users here that are analysts in the Tiger Cub network and would offer some insights.

I work for a L/S fund with a value focus and our analysts have very little interaction with other funds. We spend essentially all of our time in SEC filings, conference call transcripts, research reports, etc doing fundamental, bottoms up work. We are very value-oriented and will buy some businesses that I think are pretty shitty but they are so cheap and we size the bets appropriately. We buy growing businesses at less attractive prices as well but skew more towards that traditional value side.

There are a list of more GARPy stocks that I've followed for work or owned in my PA and I've noticed that when one Tiger fund buys it, several of them buy it eventually. I don't want to give any names away, but there is a company I own growing organically at 7-9% and doing very Accretive acquisitions every other quarter. One smaller Tiger cub initiated 12-18 months ago and has had it as a top holding. Q4 last year two other smaller Tiger funds came in at 3-4% positions for their fund. After Q1 of this year, the big guys came in (10bn+, think Viking, Lone Pine, Maverick, Blue Ridge etc).

For the guys that work at either the smaller Tiger funds or the large ones, how much interaction do you have within that network? Is it at the PM or analyst level? Lone Pine and Viking are literally right across the street from each other in Greenwich, is there a lot of back and forth?

I'm not commenting on the talent or ability of these funds. By and large I'm sure they are filled with very smart people. There are few truly original ideas in our business and there are other networks that are very close (ie the guys from Bob Rubin's desk at Goldman). It does seem though the "Tiger Network" can be its own catalyst and if somebody at one shop sources a really good idea, they all benefit.

If somebody has insights and doesn't feel comfortable posting here feel free to PM

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Comments (22)

Jun 6, 2013 - 11:50pm

From my experience I can confirm that they do a ton of back and forth, but I think it happens at the higher level than at the lower ones (though it could be both). These guys are for the most part all good friends, and if Andreas has an analyst bring him a really solid name he's more than likely going to give John and Stephen and Lee and Roberto and a few other guys a call and all the sudden everyone else is considering it. I'm not sure how frequent this is but there's certain positions both on the short and long side that you see a ton of Cubs own in size. Crown Castle comes to mind, as does PCLN, EQIX, and MON... though especially in PCLN's case you could argue that there's not a hedge fund under the sun that doesn't own a piece of that. TRIP would be another big one for those guys since I think EXPE was prior to that.

Don't let them fool you though, they still look up to Big Daddy, evidenced by the LBTYA love and a million others from the past few years. But yeah, these guys definitely talk to each other a decent amount... though in some cases I think they just have the whole "great minds think alike" thing going and end up having analysts working on the same names then realize they both like it and feel more validated owning it.

One word on the Cubs though that I actually am trying to invite some backlash with is that I'm convinced that most of their biggest winners are thoroughly unoriginal. And don't get me wrong, I'm 100% in agreement that it's damn near impossible to come up with an original idea these days, but at my fund we end up getting a lot of eyes on our work (and perhaps even more so at a previous fund) and I've noticed a pleasant drift on a lot of our bigger names in the past coming from the Tigers. A lot could be coincidence, some could be that we actually ended up owning the thing *after* they did and I just haven't noticed, etc.... but I still notice it a good deal that they take up big positions from other funds fairly regularly, which makes me think they are big 13-F fans in sourcing. Maybe Julian taught that, who knows.

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Jun 7, 2013 - 12:29am

From what I know, they host meetings where they invite in other Tiger funds and LPs to pitch some of their best 'new' ideas.

In general, everybody in this business talks their book to everybody else if you're in the circle of 'people we think are smart enough to be worth talking to'...and why wouldn't you? Especially with longs, the more people that believe your thesis, the faster the stock goes up...

Best Response
Jun 7, 2013 - 11:11am

Gray Fox:

I wanted to ping the WSO community and see if there are any users here that are analysts in the Tiger Cub network and would offer some insights.

I work for a L/S fund with a value focus and our analysts have very little interaction with other funds. We spend essentially all of our time in SEC filings, conference call transcripts, research reports, etc doing fundamental, bottoms up work. We are very value-oriented and will buy some businesses that I think are pretty shitty but they are so cheap and we size the bets appropriately. We buy growing businesses at less attractive prices as well but skew more towards that traditional value side.

Thanks for bring this up. I'm at a fund with a similar style as you speak to, which I sometimes feel doesn't give me enough opportunities to meet with other investors. On top of that, it is within our culture to try to keep a low-profile.

Not to derail the topic, but I wonder what we can do to meet others? I'm making some efforts to introduce myself to other and its with modest success.

In contrast to the above, I do feel like our PMs are well connected within the investor community.

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  • 4
Jun 7, 2013 - 8:44pm

From my experience, I've found that friends at different shops definitely talk to each other even if they're not supposed to, but that's more a function of being friends than who their employer is. I've also found research analysts to freely share ideas with each other at various events especially if it's more of an 'intimate' setting. It's mutually beneficial.

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Jun 10, 2013 - 4:42pm

part of this is also that the universe that most large l/s funds can invest in is somewhat limited, and funds with the same style will just end up crowding the same name, you frequently see this with the same l/s funds (whether Tiger or not) owning the same name

Aug 10, 2013 - 3:01pm

[quote=bankbank]A hedge fund started by a manager that got his start at Tiger Management with Julian Robertson. A lot of them are also seeded by Julian Robertson.

here's a list of a bunch of cubs

http://howtogetahedgefundjob.com/2009/07/julian-robertsons-tiger-cubs.h…]

Something to add: Tiger Management killed it back in the day, and the cubs have had a very good track record since Tiger shut down in 2000.

Aug 10, 2013 - 2:59pm

Oh, I'd heard of that before without knowing what it referred to either.

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.

Aug 10, 2013 - 3:00pm

Or this:

But yes, the first poster was correct.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
Aug 10, 2013 - 3:02pm

Additional something to add: Being able to tout the "Tiger Cub" moniker... and even in some cases the "Grand Tiger Cub" moniker... will almost guarantee that certain institutional investors will give you $1M-$5M to play with, depending on what the new fund's account minimum is....

Aug 10, 2013 - 3:03pm

and a Tiger Seed is a firm that has been given money by Julian Robertson.

The success of the Tiger Cubs is one of the great reasons against the EMH.

"Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, for knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA."
Aug 10, 2013 - 3:04pm

"What a sweet release!!"

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.

Aug 10, 2013 - 3:10pm

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