I feel like I am settling for less. How do I convince myself otherwise?

I recently received an offer from my summer internship for FT.

I had a pretty good experience, people were nice, the group generally had a progressive atmosphere. The firm has a growing presence in the US, but its very large globally. (Not a BB but still up there). The analyst class exists but its small enough for me to feel like I can make a difference. After pondering all of these elements and looking at the relatively bleak outlook of FT recruiting (at least in areas I was interested in), I decided to sign a couple of weeks later.

However, now that I am back at school, I can't help but honestly feel a little greedy. I look at some opportunities on our OCR and think: What if I could've been elsewhere? Will my firm get me where I want to be in grad school a couple years down the road? Am I settling? Could I have gotten a better opportunity?

Has anyone else felt this way? It's driving me nuts. I don't know what to do or how to get over it.

 

Push the envelope as far as you can. If it makes you feel any better, before I even started my first internship I was contacting other companies with the intention of leveraging the upcoming internship towards something else a few weeks after it started. I've calmed down, maybe too much, but you get the point.

Get busy living
 

how long could you go without working? what are your long-term goals? don't know what the personal reasons are but that shit almost never looks good. that combined with not having something lined up after you quit has red flag written all over it but once again it really depends on why you left. if you have any specific long-term goals, think about how taking an ops role fits into that after 1.5 years of MO/FO experience looks like and factors into those goals.

 

I could probably go 6 months without working. I know leaving without another role looks bad, and I'm being vague but I left the previous position on good terms if that means anything. Ideally, I'd like to go into credit or equity research but realize that I might have to get an MBA in a few years to do that. Right now, I'll go for anything that actually offers some relevant learning experience in the markets. I mean, ops really doesn't fit in but based on the limited information I gave you, I wonder if I would be lucky to even find something at a bank and should just suck it up for a few years.

 

dont know anything about you beyond what you posted in here but i'm almost certain you will be able to find another ops role in six months if you needed to. ops looks like a step backwards and will lead to scrutiny after that role. hiring is uncertain in so many ways right now that all this shit could end up not mattering but i'd wait it out and keep hustling. how unknown is the boutique?

 

The BB name would probably look great on your resume even if it's Ops, and you'd have an entire BB to network with. Being in Ops would also probably give you enough free time to finish up your CFA.

 
xqtrack:
don't go back office...look into other careers, doing something real. get an MBA, and roll back in. finance is better post MBA anyways

Like what? What jobs would allow you to get into finance post-MBA (even though you didn't do finance pre-MBA)?

 

In particular I'd try to see if you could get an entry level industry corp finance job. Not that they are easy to get, but obviously every company of a certain size has one of these departments, making there more potential hiring firms out there than banks. Also, like other people above have said, it's not where you start, it's where you end up. That being said if you start in a back office job, you can move to the front office-- but it will probably take a lot of networking and research/studying time on your end.

 

I interned at a federal contractor back in the day and I completely understand you. I was miserable and thank god I got out. Too be honest, you don't have many transferable skills unless you have some finance exposure. What type of consulting do you now? Depending on your experience you might be able to transfer to strategy or management consulting.

Array
 
TeddyTheBear:

I interned at a federal contractor back in the day and I completely understand you. I was miserable and thank god I got out. Too be honest, you don't have many transferable skills unless you have some finance exposure. What type of consulting do you now? Depending on your experience you might be able to transfer to strategy or management consulting.

I interned at a small Asset Management that ran a few small funds including a late-stage VC fund that I participated in. In addition I do Strategy based consulting for this firm

 

Step 1: Take a deep breath. Step 2: Put in 2 years of good quality work, get some good references, and get into b school. Step 3: After your first year, do an internship in banking, and do well enough to land a full-time offer.

Really not that difficult if you apply yourself.

You should consider yourself lucky for not going into banking as an analyst. What an awful experience that would be.

 
mdk6c:

Step 1: Take a deep breath.
Step 2: Put in 2 years of good quality work, get some good references, and get into b school.
Step 3: After your first year, do an internship in banking, and do well enough to land a full-time offer.

Really not that difficult if you apply yourself.

You should consider yourself lucky for not going into banking as an analyst. What an awful experience that would be.

If all else fails this is what I'll be doing. But I'd really rather not throw away 2-3 years working doing something I loathe only to get back into B-School. I feel like I'll be missing a lot of opportunities going this route.

 

Ausenna, the more time you spend in this role, the more it will overshadow your previous internship in AM. Trust me on this. This is because employers will want to know what you do now. Also don't listen to the guy above about putting in 2 years. If you don't like what you do, find a way out. Did you build a netowrk at your previous internship? Use it. There are tons of VC funds in D.C. especially those in clean energy. Attend events as much as you can.

Array
 

Did you recruit for IB, or was Ops your only offer? If it was your only offer than it's better than nothing. However if you accepted the first thing that came your way, then you shorted yourself especially since Ops is not what you're aiming for. I think you definitely have a solid shot at a boutique/MM IB SA as above has mentioned .

 
fortes_fortuna:

Did you recruit for IB, or was Ops your only offer? If it was your only offer than it's better than nothing. However if you accepted the first thing that came your way, then you shorted yourself especially since Ops is not what you're aiming for. I think you definitely have a solid shot at a boutique/MM IB SA as above has mentioned .

It was the first thing I interviewed for this past November, and received an offer the week before Thanksgiving. I guess I was a little naive and took the first thing offered to me. I am trying to see where I stand going into the Fall recruiting season given my new school and the experience I have given. Do I have to put my former non-target school on my resume? Do I have to denote that my 3.95 GPA came from the non-target school, or can I put it next to my new school?

 

Bb ops with solid networking and good GPA will land u multiple s&t and a good amount of banking interviews as well. Chill out, network at ur bank over the summer and relax.

 
Best Response

First, I'm a little surprised the recruiters didn't weed you out of the Ops interviews. They usually look to avoid the kids that think they are too good for the job. You have a great opportunity here and you go at it like a brat. I can almost imagine your post this time next year complaining that you didn't get anything for Junior SA. You say you won't learn anything. Hopefully, you learn...

How a large BB operates, how to navigate corporate bureaucracy, which area of IB is most interesting through networking, what not to do as a Junior intern, excel/word/ppt skills, formatting skills, etc

Maybe you will develop a more humble and mature approach to your work. One of the biggest mistakes interns make is thinking something is below them. People will be able to see right through you this summer if you don't approach this well. That could mean no return offer and I assure you that your interviewers will ask, blacklisted from that BB for any division, no recommendation.

I worked ops for two summers (freshmen and sophomore) both at BB. I got killer recommendations, enjoyed my summers in London and NYC, and wound up where I'm assuming you want to be. I not only got an offer to return in August at both banks, but got an IBD offer a week after my sophomore summer from the same bank once they learned that that was my interest. I turned it down with a hope of getting into a stronger BB and it all worked out. The grass isn't always greener. You want to build models for some boutique, well that sets you up for some pretty hard technicals come recruiting for you. Not to mention getting into a BB program speaks well on your behalf no matter the division. Now there is gonna be someone who says the opposite I am sure, but you kind of sound like a tool saying your internship is gonna suck and it is only going to suck with your current mentality.

 
Scrooge McDuck:

First, I'm a little surprised the recruiters didn't weed you out of the Ops interviews. They usually look to avoid the kids that think they are too good for the job. You have a great opportunity here and you go at it like a brat. I can almost imagine your post this time next year complaining that you didn't get anything for Junior SA. You say you won't learn anything. Hopefully, you learn...

How a large BB operates, how to navigate corporate bureaucracy, which area of IB is most interesting through networking, what not to do as a Junior intern, excel/word/ppt skills, formatting skills, etc

Maybe you will develop a more humble and mature approach to your work. One of the biggest mistakes interns make is thinking something is below them. People will be able to see right through you this summer if you don't approach this well. That could mean no return offer and I assure you that your interviewers will ask, blacklisted from that BB for any division, no recommendation.

I worked ops for two summers (freshmen and sophomore) both at BB. I got killer recommendations, enjoyed my summers in London and NYC, and wound up where I'm assuming you want to be. I not only got an offer to return in August at both banks, but got an IBD offer a week after my sophomore summer from the same bank once they learned that that was my interest. I turned it down with a hope of getting into a stronger BB and it all worked out. The grass isn't always greener. You want to build models for some boutique, well that sets you up for some pretty hard technicals come recruiting for you. Not to mention getting into a BB program speaks well on your behalf no matter the division. Now there is gonna be someone who says the opposite I am sure, but you kind of sound like a tool saying your internship is gonna suck and it is only going to suck with your current mentality.

Some eye opening stuff..thanks.

 
HarvardOrBust:

Too good for the job?? This dude is from a non-target. BB Ops was probably a reach. Cant believe you feel so entitled coming from a non-target.

I could've been a target out of high school, but couldn't afford it so I had to take the scholarship to the non-target. But now I transferred to a target. Don't see how I'm entitled though.

This person is the definition of entitled:

 
HarvardOrBust:

Too good for the job?? This dude is from a non-target. BB Ops was probably a reach. Cant believe you feel so entitled coming from a non-target.

Reading comprehension, how does it work?

MM IB -> Corporate Development -> Strategic Finance
 
HarvardOrBust:

Too good for the job?? This dude is from a non-target. BB Ops was probably a reach. Cant believe you feel so entitled coming from a non-target.

The fact that you even bring the target / non - target things into the equation indicates you probably suffer from some entitlement yourself. Regardless of where you went and how you did at the end of the day no one owes you shit and you should keep that in mind. You could very well be a humble, hardworking person but everyone should keep their shit in check, work hard and be humble.

OP has a bad attitude. All I'm saying is they should approach it as a great opportunity and make the best of it, regardless of where they went to school.

 

You're entitled because you expected to be able to get a good gig coming from a non target. Doesn matter if you had a chance to go to a target. The fact of the matter is that your expectations were not aligned with reality. When employers go through resumes they're not going to take the time to interview everyone to see whether he is smart or not. Reality is that non targets get much less opportunities networking aside.

 

Dude, seriously?

First of all, you are completely fine with a BB Ops internship going into your junior year, especially coming from a non-target. I went to a target and did BB Ops (so incredibly boring and many of the people are half-tards who don't know how to use a computer) and am now at a top BB. You'll be fine if you do well your junior year as a transfer, your non-target GPA means absolutely nothing when you transfer so it is totally dependent on how you do first semester.

Secondly, those who land IB gigs going into their junior year are either extremely well connected/network like crazy and go to a target or are total stud-muffins at targets. You literally had zero chance to land an IB gig. You didn't settle for something too low, you got lucky by getting your foot in the door of a BB.

 
NigelTheNose:

Dude, seriously?

First of all, you are completely fine with a BB Ops internship going into your junior year, especially coming from a non-target. I went to a target and did BB Ops (so incredibly boring and many of the people are half-tards who don't know how to use a computer) and am now at a top BB. You'll be fine if you do well your junior year as a transfer, your non-target GPA means absolutely nothing when you transfer so it is totally dependent on how you do first semester.

Secondly, those who land IB gigs going into their junior year are either extremely well connected/network like crazy and go to a target or are total stud-muffins at targets. You literally had zero chance to land an IB gig. You didn't settle for something too low, you got lucky by getting your foot in the door of a BB.

+1

 

Learn from my mistakes bro. I was interviewing for a BB with a top group within the BB. It was an Ops position, so I came in with the attitude that I was too good for it. I got sent out the door really fast. Though every mistake is an opportunity to learn something going forward. I learned that I'm nobody and I'm not too good for anything. Yes, that includes working at a fast-food joint. It's time to humble yourself and get your foot in anywhere you can. I come from a non-target as well. A good attitude will take you far.

 

well the short answer is YES you sold yourself way short. When I recruited for SA, I had a 3.0 GPA, very non-target, and no family connection, still landed a few BB offers and MM shops like JEF.

that being said, do not think of this as a missed opportunity but more as a learning experience. when you recruit for banking for next summer, just spin your story a little... i took the highest paying summer job i could to help put myself through college, help my sick mother. you can say just about anything and still be OK.

That GPA and target school on resume will open a lot of doors

 
Whiskey5:

well the short answer is YES you sold yourself way short. When I recruited for SA, I had a 3.0 GPA, very non-target, and no family connection, still landed a few BB offers and MM shops like JEF.

that being said, do not think of this as a missed opportunity but more as a learning experience. when you recruit for banking for next summer, just spin your story a little... i took the highest paying summer job i could to help put myself through college, help my sick mother. you can say just about anything and still be OK.

That GPA and target school on resume will open a lot of doors

Did you not notice that he was a Sophomore? If the choice is between BB Ops and an unpaid random shitty boutique, the BB is without a doubt the best way to go.

 

My background: non-target, pwm and entrepreneurship internships --> Target, IBD MM SA --> IBD BB FT

Did you settle too low? Who cares if you did. You did it -- so use it.

Two years ago I was in a similar situation. I had just transferred from a non-target to a target. By recruiting season for SA (Winter) I had a semester of classes under my belt, so I just gave my new school and new average on one line, and the non-target school and GPA below with "(transferred in fall of 20XX)" by the school name. Just make sure that your GPA is competitive at the target and that your new GPA is not too far off from your previous school

I was able to leverage my story -- how going into college I had no idea what I wanted to do, study, etc.., but once I discovered my passion, I did what I needed to do to achieve what I wanted.

The summer before I transferred I had worked at a start-up. I used that experience to as a point of contrast in my interviews. I would recommend mentioning that you were uncertain of what you wanted, and ended up in Ops. Through that experience, you learned that being in IBD would be a better fit for you because XYZ.

In general, DON'T be afraid of your less than golden past education/experience. Banks see plenty of guys with the typical "I wanted to be a banker since I was twelve" resumes. There is nothing wrong with saying you had to work your way up and figure it out along the way.

Cheers!

Feeling Good, Living Better
 
CarriedDisinterest:

My background: non-target, pwm and entrepreneurship internships --> Target, IBD MM SA --> IBD BB FT

Did you settle too low? Who cares if you did. You did it -- so use it.

Two years ago I was in a similar situation. I had just transferred from a non-target to a target. By recruiting season for SA (Winter) I had a semester of classes under my belt, so I just gave my new school and new average on one line, and the non-target school and GPA below with "(transferred in fall of 20XX)" by the school name. Just make sure that your GPA is competitive at the target and that your new GPA is not too far off from your previous school

I was able to leverage my story -- how going into college I had no idea what I wanted to do, study, etc.., but once I discovered my passion, I did what I needed to do to achieve what I wanted.

The summer before I transferred I had worked at a start-up. I used that experience to as a point of contrast in my interviews. I would recommend mentioning that you were uncertain of what you wanted, and ended up in Ops. Through that experience, you learned that being in IBD would be a better fit for you because XYZ.

In general, DON'T be afraid of your less than golden past education/experience. Banks see plenty of guys with the typical "I wanted to be a banker since I was twelve" resumes. There is nothing wrong with saying you had to work your way up and figure it out along the way.

Cheers!

Thanks man, appreciate it.

 

Attempting to negotiate an entry level banking salary would undoubtedly lead to you being 1. out of a job 2. on the front page of dealbreaker

The above assumes it's an offer for a respected firm (e.g. BB and even unpreftigious top MM) and not some TTT shop

 
NewGuy:
Attempting to negotiate an entry level banking salary would undoubtedly lead to you being 1. out of a job 2. on the front page of dealbreaker
prospie:
this make sense but does not apply to analysts and associates being hired straight out of school.

This is what I always assumed; I'm sure the graduate talk in the article pertains to other industries.

To what extent negotiating comes into play further down the line?

Damn you Rodger! My WSO Blog
 

As you gain experience/accolades, your negotiating power will probably increase. But just coming out of school, you don't have the political savvy to do that effectively. I know a bunch of kids who thought they could play all the different offers against one another, and things just got messy for them.

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com
 

You should always negotiate for something better. The only time you are a price taker is when you are an entry level commodity input into one of big financial supermarkets (BB banks). Even as a lateral hire at the junior level you should be able to negotiate a bit, at the very least in terms of what level you come in at.

At one of my previous transitions, I got my bonus bought out and a 15% increase over the salary they first quoted me (which was already 10% more than my previous salary)... All I had to do was ask/counteroffer. Only later did I find out that one of my colleagues had negotiated a better deal as he was able to get a minimum bonus guarantee for the 1st year of him joining the firm (they didn't have to buy out his bonus though)... This was at the Senior Associate level in REPE.

Has it ever backfired for me? No. I have turned down roles though because they couldn't meet my counter offer. You may need to be able to walk away if you want to go for big numbers. You definitely need to know what your worth is to other employers and be able to both demonstrate that in interviews. Also you need to know not only what average pays is like, but also the range. It could vary a lot depending on what part of finance you are in or what country.

No employer is going to dismiss your candidacy because you asked for 10% extra from what they offered and a few other changes in the employment offer/agreement. You need to make them want you though.

The Article I've skimmed through the HBS article and I think the following in "bold" is utter BS and corporate propaganda

" A good recruiter will ask if you have any base salary requirement. If asked, answer the question honestly. The employer needs to know that you're in the range they're hoping to pay so they don't waste their time or yours.

My opinion, don't answer that question if you can get away with it. Certainly try to delay it until they have made you an offer if you end up disclosing it at all. Tell them you will work out the salary details once they are ready to make an offer and feel that there is fit between you and the role. This is the opposite of what these guys are recommending which is to give them your current salary to anchor to.

Also, the reason given in the article is poor. The range they "hope" to bind their employees to, should not be your concern.

Also there is a theme in the article that you shouldn't negotiate money. I think this is BS. Money is the most important and negotiable part of the job. They're not going to be able to make a particular finance/investment role that much more interesting to you. Also, your salary is contractual, whereas a promise that you will get exposure to XYZ type deals or senior management / interesting clients is not. Things change in business and the part that doesn't usually is the financial commitments in black and white. Use other parts like, other compensation, bonus language, vacation days, school fees, other contractual perks, pension, carried interest, etc... as negotiating points so it doesn't seem like you're only haggling over salary, but getting more money should be a key indicator of how successful you are in negotiating your new role.

 

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"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin
 

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