I'm at a BB in the MO with hopes of breaking in to IBD. Recently emailed the recruiter who is in charge of lateral hires to talk about the process.
Obviously I knew the odds are against me but I still had a little hope..... but NOPE - her response isn't something we didn't already know, but thought I would share.
Here's her response:
Hi [you],99.9% of our analyst positions in IBD are filled through the campus analyst program. That is a very structured process that generally occurs the year before analysts start full time with us. It is extremely rare that we ever hire an analyst at any level outside of that program.
Regards,
T****
Wow. Blunt -- I respect that.
That sucks :( I know a lot of people who were sold the dream in the BO/MO that you can move to FO but NOPE. Not a single one.
Goddamn she was quite direct. Wonder if the same holds true for ER associate positions or S&T.
That statistic is not surprising at all
The MO/BO move to FO, which is incredibly rare, usually happens within S&T.
Moving to IBD is pretty much impossible, the skillset is not there at all.
Yea totally agree. Was hoping for a 1st year to pull out after his first 100hr but w.e
The S&T recruiter was much more responsive to my request to talk abt lateraling,
Hi Me,
Apologies for the delay in getting back to you. What I would like to do is put you in touch with one of our recruiters to talk through your resume and any advice. I will come back to you once I secure someone who can chat with you. What desk do you work on now?
Thanks P*****
Thanks for including this as well, did you only email S&T and IBD? Also, how did you determine who to email and does your current boss have any knowledge of it?
Never heard of the jump to IBD. However, I personally know two guys who made the jump from MO to trading at BB's. Took them both 3-4 years.
what about the move from S&T to IBD for someone finishing his/her first year? i'm guessing recruiters would not be receptive to the idea, so the only way is to get an MD or someone senior to vouch for you?
No current boss does not know (obviously). He could techincally look through my mailbox, which i'm pretty sure he has before early on, but i doubt he cares to anymore. Especially since there are tons of mails. I learned of the HR people through good ol' networking. Lets see where it leads.
What do think the chances are of going from IB Risk to IBD at JPM. Since they pretend they are both front office and you work on the same projects
Even if there are spots open, HR wouldn't want to tell you about it. You need to reach out directly to bankers and since you have company directory right in front of you, ask them for informational interviews
9/10 times HR will always opt to the traditional methods of filling it with summer analysts so you gotta go over their head.
Insightful Post OP, Thx
That was one of the harshest responses I have ever seen. (well maybe not ever, but still kind of off-putting).
You should ask her if they take lateral hires into HR, or if they only hire those who have spawned from cheer camp?
Never understood why someone would take a BO/MO role. Why not shoot for a position as a valuation associate or work for a F500. At least this experience is somewhat transferable.
This is is a rather ignorant statement. Some know what they want to do in high school, in college, while others figure it out down the road.
Some just needed a job to pay bills, support a family, or simply don't know what "FO" is. Be happy with your role and where you are, but don't shit on others.
Its not about taking BO/MO role, its simply about having a job. In this economy, people are forced to take positions even though they don't want it because it pays rent and puts food on the table.
I like food
Hit up your Kelley bros. They can help you out.
i'd suggest trying to network with MM bankers or other BB banker to try and get a position elsewhere, obviously 99.9% is not true considering there are definitely some non targets in IBD. Don't bother with recruiters, talk straight to the bankers.
Most HR are lazy sluts... Start networking... I constantly see BBs hire IBD analysts with 1-3 years of experience in related fields... What she's talking about is first year analysts...
Plus, I have seen people go from BO/MO to S&T, AM/PM, etc...
If you're already at the bank, I've heard the best advice is to skip HR, and go straight to the bankers as noted above. If they like you they'd be the ones to pick anyways.
OP,
What would you say are chances of someone working in BO, and is interested in moving to MO.
I am talking moving from Ops to Treasury or Credit Risk. Is that an easier process?
Moving from BO to MO is not difficult at all. So if you can get over the fact that you aren't FO, you can have a nice life and move up the ranks in the MO, or get 3-4 years of MO work exp and move into F500 finance and get paid twice as much for doing the same job.
I wonder if people get a really bad reputation on the street if you leave your MO position to an FO position at another bank after a month
If you're where you want to be (IBD, FO-related), I don't see why this is a big problem. Disregard the MO position, if anything.
Just a heads up: some MO bosses won't like it if you're talking to bankers. Play it really coy. Just personal experience.
[quote=WalMartShopper]
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I was about to respond to her by just sending this video ahah--wonder what her response would have been... So funny
I work in S&T BO, and I bet I'd kick your ass!!
Not surprised at all. If you want to lateral into FO, then you need someone who is willing to go to bat for you. That takes networking abilities and some schmoozing. Not everyone has that skill, and if you have it, then use it.
Some HR associate working in the firm will never jeopardize their tried and true process of IBD selection process to accomodate some jerk in MO/BO. ( dont mean to be harsh)
Even though that HR rep essentially crushed your dreams, I would give her props for giving you an answer, as opposed to the normal nebulous HR BS.
I went Bo to trading and it's quite common on some traing desks
RE:
I am the 0.1%. Let me prove it to you.
Best,
KelleyStudent12
And this is why S&T people make more money than IB
+1 SB for sharing. That's rough.
I did a MO internship in a GS/JPM/MS BB my SO/JR summer. After I said I was interested in IB they rescinded my return offer for the next summer. It was ok with that though - I got lucky and it worked out in the long run.
Fuck HR, go chat up people in banking. HR in pretty much every other industry is useful. But in finance all they're good for is running your fingerprints when you start.
I would bypass HR... they tend to treat certain positions like the caste system..
Harsh but deep down we all knew it was it like this anyway. The transition is very rare.
I start at MO at a BB this autumn. My goal has always been IBD but unfortunately I didn't get any offers for a position. My plan to break into IBD does not at all consider a lateral move within the company. It just seems inconceivable to consider a BB would let that happen. I'm hoping after two and a half years get some good exp on my desk, complete the CFA, make some good connections and leave the company. Do a MSF at a top 3 school and then apply for IBD elsewhere. Whats your plan now OP?
Side note: during my internship last year I met a surprising amount of traders who used to be in MO at same company.
I won't say it's impossible to move MO-->FO in a BB. I worked in a BB MO internship junior year and got into the interview process for the same BB IBD FT.
Yeah dude, HR is as useless as wet bread
Instead of bonuses, analysts should be granted the right to fire some hr bitch...I know I would hesitate between the two.
I dislike HR too, but no way this would be a good value proposition for any IB analyst. Maybe if your bonus was only going to be $500 - $2000, it would be amusing to be able to fire someone, but not when that much money is at stake.
Yeah you're probably right, although I would like to fire one someday.
Hey OP, I was in the BO/MO and had to switch firms to get to IBD. That is probably your best bet. I received an email saying almost the same thing before; actually it might be from the same firm. Most HR people don’t give a crap about some BO/MO kid. They have tons of kids to pick from during campus recruiting. It doesn’t make a difference for them that you have been working for a while, why would it? They have to train you again for IBD anyways, so it doesn’t matter if you are a young campus recruit or some BO/MO hopeful. The only way that you can get that dream of IBD is to network. I would suggest going outside of your firm to do this, for a couple reasons. One, people at your firm know what you do and all the responsibilities of someone in your role. Two, the recruiter may tell your manager that you are looking to leave and you don't want to be out of a job. Three, managers in IBD are not going to risk receiving a HR complaint because they stole another employee from a different department. The intra company politics isn’t worth the risk, the campus recruit hire will be drama free and you may not be. Four, there are restrictions on hiring employees laterally. Most companies you must work in your current role for a year before you can move to another division.
By far your best bet is to network with other firms, you are stuck in the middle at your own firm...get out!
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