job search situation

Oh yeah, and do analysts get any severance generally?

Your company has a policy for severance if you are laid off - you can get it from your intranet. But yes, you'd get a severance - probably nothing to live on - especially in NYC.

bump?

You basically have 3 options:

1) Try to get another job in finance. There are lots of boutiques out there and although they may not be at the top of your list, they will pay the bills and you'll get at least some decent experience from working at them.

2) Get a job outside finance in sectors that have not been as affected by sub-prime/credit crunch.

3) Travel, Peace Corps, starting your own business.

If your long-term goal is finance, I don't think doing any of these 3 is going to prevent you from going back when the economy gets better... you need a good story obviously but if the US goes into a recession (which seems increasingly likely), people will understand if you couldn't get a job when firms stop hiring. Just make sure you take the first opportunity to go back when it comes.

Also I think you're greatly overestimating how bad your situation is. Headhunters start talking to 1st years in March/April and we're only a few months away, so why not start the conversations now or very soon?

Feel free to PM me with any more questions.

I think it would be appropriate the money is actually needed- most people don't make 100k+ straight out of college and a lot of people don't even go to college. If it's not needed, it should not be taken and more should left for those who really do. Also, I doubt a prospective employer, or anyone other than whoever sends out the check for that matter, would be legally allowed to find out that someone's on welfare. It's kind of like asking for a previous salary- they don't need to know and they are not allowed to find out.

uh why wouldnt you take unemployment even if you have cash saved up? lol

there is a lot of misconception here, so let me clarify. unemployment is NOT the same as welfare. an employer is required by law to make payments into a government run insurance program so that IF they lay off people, then these people are entitled to get some small sustainance payments for a few months (6 months I believe). This is NOT the same as welfare. and it is NOT taxing the system. So even if the OP has money saved up, why WOULDN"T he take unemployment? It is basically money that has been set aside by his employer for him for just this occassion. Checks will be mailed to his house. Do it. Take it. And no, your future employer can't find out, and has no right to ask. But to put your mind at ease - if I found out through some magic that an applicant was eligible for unemployment and DIDN'T take it, I wouldn't hire that doufus. Because that guy is too proud, or too stupid, to do what is needed in the real big-boy-pants world.

You might want to figure out where your niche is and market yourself accordingly. Turn around and think of yourself as a product on a supermarket shelf. What makes you stand out from others? what are you providing that no one else is providing.

Thanks. I think I do know my market and have been targeting positions with that in mind. My most recent rejection, after a solid telephone interview, should no way have been a rejection. I have no idea what the manager must have seen to reject me but I was a solid fit for that role.

My niche is research based roles and as such have been looking at these primarily. Just with absolutely no luck.

which countries are you looking in?

Try coming up with a research project to work on and sending it to specific companies that are interested in that kind of work. Very time consuming, but tends to be effective - you're not asking for something so much as offering something. If you were looking to join a hedge fund, you would send them a stock pitch that meets their investment criteria/style. Also keeps you plugged in and busy, which prospective employers like to hear.

freemarketeer:

Try coming up with a research project to work on and sending it to specific companies that are interested in that kind of work. Very time consuming, but tends to be effective - you're not asking for something so much as offering something. If you were looking to join a hedge fund, you would send them a stock pitch that meets their investment criteria/style. Also keeps you plugged in and busy, which prospective employers like to hear.

Excellent idea. I did this back when I was looking for work years ago (Buy some high quality plastic file folders and put your research in there. ) It got me noticed in job fairs. And in actual interviews, redirected the attention of the interviewer away from me and instead to what I can offer to them.

Any tips anyone?

Are you a US citizen? If so, is that a disadvantage to you while you are looking at European jobs?

Problem is location, specifically if you are in anything finance-related... London has been shrinking ever after Lehman. It is not the US or continental Europe that has picked up to some extent.

Source: Worked there when Lehman collapsed :) and still have a few friends working in London.

As harsh as it might look... move somewhere else with greener pastures.

Firstly, mirin' the watch. ;-)

Looks fine, just don't wear anything too flashy. As for me, I'm a bit a watch snob, and on interviews, I wore a Timex from J-Crew so no one would think I was trying to impress them with a fancy watch.

First off, Try to enjoy the holidays.

Now...

Most people will tell you what I'm telling you. Just keep pounding the pavement.

Careerbuilder, Theladders, Monster are all helpful. I would expand your search to incorporate more than just finance. Finance, for the most part, is hurting everywhere. Take a look at roles in research, marketing, PR, etc. I know its rough out there and you're wondering about being light in experience, but you can't let that you get down. You may not be working in your ideal role, but in this market being employed is much more prestigious than being unemployed.

Specifically tailor your cover letter and resume to highlight the most important skills for every job you apply. It may take some time each time you do it but you have the time to do it, so just do it.

You'll have better luck doing that than having a boiler plate cover letter / resume that you submit every time.

Continue networking, ask to talk to people that your current contacts know. Don't ask for a job, just open up your ears and listen, ask questions that you want to know the answers to.

I have no idea if you've explored any of these avenues yet but hopefully it helps.

Good luck.

We're about to enter a Great Depression. Don't you want a president who's already dressed for it?

Curious... which company were you laid off from? What city? Did they provide outplacement assistance?

I have a job, but I'm looking for a new one. I have a little more than a year of experience and I'm struggling too. Even being open to jobs outside of finance hasn't helped. A lot of firms put out ads for positions only to freeze them later on. There's nothing you can do besides expanding your horizons outside of finance a little bit and being patient

There's always barber college.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

have you tried headhunters?

I understand the frustration -- keep in mind that even with tons of experience, it's not any easier. It's simply a matter of numbers - in bad times, there's WAY more people looking for work than there are actual positions that are open (whether it's entry level, middle mgmt, etc).

There really isn't any sure fire way, other than to keep your head up, and keep trying all avenues - online career sites, headhunters, networking, college career placement office, etc.

By all means scour the online job/career boards, but consider them to be more of a cattle call - even with advertised positions that you think you'll be perfect for, your resume will likely be lost in the shuffle along with the thousands of other resumes being submitted.

If I were you, I'd focus your efforts on any back channels. In this kind of market, your best bet is through whatever contacts or relationships you have - former colleagues and bosses, your professors, family and extended family, friends/classmates from school, people you've volunteered with, people you chat with casually at the gym, etc. Getting a job (whether it's finance or anything) through referrals will probably be your best bet -- the "I know someone who works at XYZ and I'll contact him/her for you".

As hard as it can be especially when some days you may not feel up to it, you have to find a way to let as many people as possible that you know that you're looking for work. That's probably cliched advice you'll hear from every career counselor out there.

As for headhunters, in a bad job market they are also hurting - they will go for the low hanging fruit (experienced folks who are willing to take a step down for a job - i.e. easy placement). By all means contact them and see what they have to say, but it's similar to scouring the online job boards - the chances of getting something is pretty low.

Again, try all avenues, but focus on people and networking. You can't do this by sitting at home - you're not out there meeting and talking to people. Get in the habit of getting out of your house everyday. Treat your job search like a job in itself. Go to lunch or coffee with people you know. Find out who they know and whether you can contact them. Go on informational interviews (through cold calling and referrals from people you know) of anyone that is in an industry or profession that you're remotely interested in - don't ask these people for a job, but treat it as a 'hello I'm looking, I want to learn more about your job, can you point me to other people you may know that could help' and so forth.

When you're jobless, the worst thing you can do for your own sanity is to sit at home most of the day. Volunteer. Do something that involves being around other people. The more people you meet, the more likely it'll turn into a "contact" that could be a door that opens to someone else they know which could turn out to be a job. You gotta work the "six degrees of separation" in your favor.

And after all this, it may still take some time. Be patient. It's hard. Some days you will feel completely overwhelmed and on the verge of breaking down. That's why it's so helpful to be in contact with people during the day - not only are you "networking" but you also have more opportunities to talk to a willing ear - it really helps to have someone who can listen to you when you're having a bad day.

All the best

I agree with all of the above. Also important to keep things in perspective.

You were laid off a month and a half ago. Relatively speaking, a month and a half ago is not enough time. A job search can take 3-6 months in "normal" times. We are not in normal times! Anticipate that you will have periods where you are in constant dialogue with potential employers and periods when you have nothing. Also, the period between now and New Year's is utterly useless. No job search is going to be productive during the last 2 weeks of the year.

It's unreasonable to sit home and do nothing. Take advantage of a lull in the job search to research industries and companies. Also a good idea to make a commitment to yourself too - e.g. workout, take classes, find time to do things you wouldn't otherwise have the time to do. The point is to remain optimistic and if you have things to do you won't fall into the trap of overwhelm/despair.

I wasnt laid off, but I changed jobs a few months ago. It took me about 2 months to find my new job.

I used online job sites quite a bit, with a lot of success.

I especially recommend efinancialcareers.com. I got a ton of interviews through it, including my ultimate offer. I was fortunate enough to end up getting 6 offers in total, and the way it panned out was: no offers for the first two months, scores and scores of interviews / emails / calls. Then one week, literally all 6 offers come on the table. so ridiculous. In a space of like 10 days I got six offers, and they just came in one after the other.

The important, and hardest thing to do is to keep faith, and knowing that when the going starts going your direction, it really will.

Another site I got some interviews through was doostang.com

headhunters got me interviews, but were kind of usueless, as they were just reaching out to tons of people for the same position, and there was no loyalty there. You cannot rely on a headhunter, gotta fend for yourself.

??

Driving a taxi..just make sure you stick resume on the window so your passengers can see.

We're about to enter a Great Depression. Don't you want a president who's already dressed for it?

Headhunters are very important and can help you, but you must be very, very persistent with them. In this environment your average headhunting firm is getting hundreds of resumes a day. So instead of working with you to find the perfect job, they instead start with the job listing and try to find the perfect person to fill it.

So they will call you non-stop if you are a potential candidate for a specific job they have, but if you are not then they won't be in contact at all. In the latter situation, you need to be persistent--call them all the time and make sure you stay in front of them. And NO emails--these guys are already overwhelmed, so don't waste your time with emailing them, instead get on the phone with them.

As someone else said, efinancialcareers.com is the best site out there...

And as another poster said, NOTHING will happen until January. So take a week or two off to relax then go all out come January 2nd.

And if you can, absolutely utilize Bloomberg's offer to give you free Bloomberg anywhere for a few months--HUGE help during the job search (that said, now that so many people are laid off are they still offering this?).....

in M&A at a BB, now in M&A at a middle market shop.

if you are looking for in positions in finance, why are you wasting your time? if you're not, feel free to PM me, i may be able to offer some advice/insight. remember, there is no glory in continuing a career in a half-dead profession, so i hope that is not that path you have been "pounding".

You could also try your school's career site. Since you only worked for three months, you might have an easier time landing interviews by applying to entry level job.s

p.s The Taxi idea is brilliant. In NYC, those who take taxi normally are pretty well off.. especially in this market.. lol

Ling~

go to business school! Thats what i would try to do.

After 3 months of experience ? Are you serious ?

balooshi:

Now I really am not sure what I should do. I think after the new year is the best time to start looking, it would probably be a waste of time to put in full effort around xmas, everyone is on holidays here.

Well, if everyone thinks the same way you do, around xmas might be the best time to start looking (less competition).

If you’re interested in M&A, I’d imagine your chances are slim with large banks. Your profile would be a better match for MM banks or boutiques, but if you don’t speak the local language it’s just not possible.

If you want to stay in Europe, it seems your best shot would be moving to UK and applying to small-cap boutiques (there’s more than 50 of them in London).

Be open-minded during your job search. Don’t only look for M&A. Why not look at transaction service jobs with the other big four ?

Good luck man.

Yes I am definately open to transaction services type work.

I agree it may be hard to get anything in with smaller firms since I dont speak the local lingo, but I will still give it a shot. Who knows maybe they will see it as an advantage having native english skills for certain things. Nothing to lose I guess.

Will try for transaction services at other big 4, i notice one has a job open for unsolicited applications. I fear though you need the local language for this field in big 4. Good thing about transfer pricing is that its mostly always all in english.

UK is not really a great option. Especially getting visas could be tricky. I already have a working visa for where I am so it helps.

Any other tips anyone

don't be so concerned with the fact that you are jumping to another position so early in your career. This recession has created a situation where almost no logical interviewer would hold that against you.

I agree with EuropeanBob. Don't let December just go away...February will be here before you know it. Better to at least prepare your resume, start reaching out to recruiters, make sure you get your story down (ie shake off the interview rust) BEFORE the holidays.

Good Luck, Patrick

Thanks guys.

Patrick, my concerns is that as a 2005 graduate, I have already had 3 jobs.

Had my first job for about 15 months, boutique professional services (accounting) firm. Then my next at goldman for 12 months. And now this one at big 4 in TP would have been for 16 months.

Thats a lot of ship jumping. First job was short because it was overseas and intention was it would only be for 1 year. Second job was short because I decided to head back overseas again with my girlfriend, and this one was short because of the layoff that is probably coming.

I am thinking of removing the first job from my resume, and if asked about the gap to have a story about how it was spent travelling for a year. I have done a lot of travel so have no problem making up stories here if required.

Thoughts?

I don't think it hurts keeping it on. Remember to leverage your network. Would you be adverse to working in the U.S.?

Balooshi,

I wouldn't leave the first job off your resume. Although 3 jobs in 4 years doesn't look great, I think having that extra experience on your resume could be helpful. Some people are going to be wary of course, but really they should understand in this market. Plus if your current employers are able to provide references, even better.

Also, I would start looking NOW. Don't waste the 3 weeks left in December. Although the last week will be dead and you can probably take some time off then.

Yeh I need to give it some thought.

Found a request for unsolicited applications into transaction services at a big 4 here. But the ad is in the local lingo, so I fear they don't want english only speakers. But will ask anyway.

May ask the partners here if they can maybe see if there are any openings at another one of our big 4 offices around europe. I could do that for 6 months to a year just to gain more experience under the 1 firm in the same depratment. Just not sure how to approach them about this. Plius they are all busy and probably dont really care.

hahaha, actually it was and is good.

Just not good when you're partners arent pulling in the work they expected.

So please enjoy my previous postings pumping it up.

Ive been looking at trying to maybe ge ta job with small m&a shops. Of course none are replying to my emails.

But do they normally only want hires who have previous m&a experience?

The thing is with small shops, there usually is no formal training, so they prefer taking on hires with banking experience. I know some small M&A shops that only employ former "global bank" or "big four m&a" analysts. But you never know with boutiques, each one is different and has different practices.

I really think that what makes it difficult for you is that you don't speak the local language. Think about it. Small boutiques do local deals. How could you work on local deals if you can't read an IM, understand financial filings, talk to your client? There's actually a large part of client facing time in small shops.

I agree about the local language thing. But just thought id ask. As i noticed on a few websites some of them say almost all of their transactions are cross border.

but agree highly unlikely

Yeah, they probably do cross boarder deals. I used to work in a continental europe boutique and we also did quite a lot of cross boarder, but the thing is: weather you're advising a local client on a foreign deal or a foreign client on a local deal, the boutique's main asset is that it's local. Meaning it understands local business culture and can do deals in the local language. It’s much easier to build a relation with a client when you speak his language, and you are expected to build relations with clients early on in small shops.

We once had an intern that couldn't speak the local language (son of a partner's friend..) and he was absolutely useless.

What you probably should do is focus on shops that have clients in your native country (the US I suppose) doing local acquisitions. They could probably use you in a Business Development / Origination role. Try and look at deals on their website and target those with some US clients.

Don't loose time sending emails, call the partners and have a solid pitch prepared.

There might also be another way to put your foot in the door: most of small shops doing cross-boarder deals are part of a network. They sometimes have a junior person working full time on developing relations with their partner foreign boutiques. Would you consider this kind of job? If you could learn the local language during this time you could then transition to regular M&A exucution role.

Thanks for the great advice europeanbob.

I have toa gree it seems unlikely as you put it, the strength is in the local knowledge.

Unfortunately I wont learn the local language very quickly, it takes most native english speakers years and years to master it.

Looking at it without the local language most jobs Id be interested in are going to be very difficult. I think I will have to stick to transfer pricing. Although its going to be very hard without a lot of experience in it, and there just arent that many positions available in it in the whole region. There are plenty at manager level and above, but unfortunately not much if anything below.

Its tough, but I'll persevere, its all I can do until I run out of money and have to return home!

Visit the website of the major M&A boutique networks (IMAP, Merger Alliance, Global M&A, etc.) and look up the local member and its deal list.

If the local member doesn't do much international m&a call them saying something along the line of "I noticed you are part of an international network but haven't exploited its full potential. I would be glad to help you develop this as I have an international profile blablalba".

If the local member does advise on many cross-boarder deals, they probably could use someone to manage relations (origination and execution) with their foreign partners.

If you are confident about yourself, you could even offer to work for a low base pay and take a fee on any deal you would have helped originate. You could actually make some money like this.

Anyway don't give up. And if you have the time, call people instead of sending emails.

Good luck man.

Thanks EuropeanBob

That sounds like good advise and i will definately use it should I lose this job.

Stay the week, don't burn any bridges. Some companies just like to rotate interns because, after all, it is just an internship. It doesn't sound to me like they are trying to shoe you out the door, and you could very well end up needing recommendations from this company. So -- don't say a word, finish strong, go to the restaurant, and move on.

^^^ Agreed, just finish strong, keep a positive attitude at the bank. However, this is completely up to your discretion, you could catch your boss real quick & ask for his opinion on your performance and if there's anything he would recommend to improve etc. I know you could run the risk of upsetting him, but I think everyone on here and in general are to sensitive to these guys, apparently, delicate sensibilities. By all means be polite and professional, but fuck man, this is the USA, go find out. There's nothing wrong with that. An internship I had ended very similar & I just asked to talk to my boss when he was working at his desk, and we talked for almost two hours & he told me to make sure to always list him as a reference in the future. So think about it, they'd probably be impressed.

Similar thing happened to me- except I told my firm that I didn't plan to stay for the spring. And now I'm actually not sure if they were going to replace me anyway, or if they wanted me to stay lol. It was also listed as a "fall internship." I'm gonna get a performance review soon.

Anyway, I would not say you were fired or laid off. If you were fired, they wouldn't wait for the end of the semester. They probably just like to rotate interns that's all. I agree with the above advice.

most firms that do fall/spring interns, usually do so to get free/cheap labour from desperate kids. They don't keep them on more than a semester, because they don't want to give you the wrong idea that there may be a job there for you in the long term. I've seen it happen before where a kid interns same place 2 semesters + summer, thought he was guarenteed FT because they obviously liked him, and gave him the boot and replaced him with another intern. There is a reason why real firms don't really do these types of internships.

Thanks everyone. I'm not that worried about it anymore after everyones advice. I wasn't really expecting a job there, and I'm only a junior, so I've got plenty of time left. I didn't really want to work there to be honest. Once I started, I didn't really like alot of the work that I was doing, so its probably for the best. Thanks again!

be prepared to take someone else's belt off

"Pick your job and land it" by Sidney and Mary Edlund (http://www.interviewcoach.me/edlund/index.htm). Written after the great depression.

I've read a lot of technical interview tactics on WSO but this book helped me solidify the fundamentals, off script and improv items.

Focus on the problem the company has, then sell yourself to that problem. Sounds easy, takes practice.

"Pick your job and land it" by Sidney and Mary Edlund (http://www.interviewcoach.me/edlund/index.htm). Written after the great depression.

I've read a lot of technical interview tactics on WSO but this book helped me solidify the fundamentals, off script and improv items.

Focus on the problem the company has, then sell yourself to that problem. Sounds easy, takes practice.

That sucks. Sorry to hear that. Start networking and hitting up headhunters and friends in the industry. If you know you're one of the cuts, senior guys may also help out to get you a soft landing elsewhere.