Told I won't get an offer before even my mid-review

Currently doing an internship at a BB, and tried to have a catch-up with my analyst to see how it is going. He basically told me that I don't have the basics corporate skills right and (Excel, PPT) right at the moment and that it will be extremely hard for me to convert my internship. He said it is a shame I joined a top BB group at this stage that he strongly thinks I can be a good analyst after 2 internships.

I realised this job might not be for me anyway, but do you guys have any advice on how I can convert this internship, so I am in a strong position when recruiting elsewhere.

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Comments (27)

Jul 10, 2021 - 3:08pm

I would try and recruit before the internship ends, or more specifically, before you officially know you DON'T have a return offer, so that the banks that you're recruiting at can't hold that against you (yet). 

"Markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent."

  • 2
  • Intern in IB-M&A
Jul 10, 2021 - 3:47pm

Do you have any idea what you're specifically doing wrong or could improve on? On what basis is the Analyst saying you don't have basic corporate or Microsoft Office skills? Curious as I'm also an intern getting my midsummer review soon. 

Jul 10, 2021 - 4:02pm

Agree with above how hard could it be to learn MS office lol. Tell them u will work hard to develop and do exactly that. also use other time to recruit but an offer is capital.

path less traveled

  • Intern in IB - Cov
Jul 10, 2021 - 4:04pm

I think he just saw me struggle using PPT and excel for really for basic functions and I asked him for help on some formating stuff.

I also sent email to the wrong chain once and he is always nit-picking everything I write anyway.

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Aug 2, 2021 - 2:27pm

grieze

Sounds like a cunt but its banking and the tiniest details supposedly "matter"

Attention to details matter. A large number of people write like shit on WSO and don't think it will carry over to work emails and work life, but it does.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

  • 1
  • Intern in IB - Cov
Jul 10, 2021 - 4:28pm

Well. I dunno I have to admit that I am deffo not the best and starting subpar to other interns.

He did say, I can become a very good analyst but he just thinks it ll require 2 internships instead of one before I am ready.

  • Analyst 1 in RE - Comm
Jul 12, 2021 - 5:08pm

Would it be considered 'good culture' to string an intern along and let him believe he is good enough to get a return offer when he is clearly not at the required level?

Jul 13, 2021 - 6:06pm

No, but a
"You're not on track for a full-time offer right now, you need to work on X, Y, and Z and here are some resources to do that"
would be a lot nicer than a
"you're shit at Excel and PPT so you're not cut out for a BB"

  • Associate 1 in IB - Cov
Jul 10, 2021 - 4:33pm

Find someone more senior that you trust and tell them what the analyst told you and ask for advice.

The expectation is that summer analysts are pretty useless. If someone is making this sort of judgement 3 weeks in, the problem is them not you. You're unfortunately either working with a total asshole and/or a bottom bucket analyst who forgot where they started.

Be vocal and start now - get ahead of him.

Jul 10, 2021 - 4:36pm

No one cares what an analyst thinks (he probably gets his work marked up by seniors all the time for mistakes).

If a director vp or MD sees potential in you they will.help you get in.

Array
  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Jul 10, 2021 - 4:37pm

I doubt an analyst can actually make this call- usually HR collects input from your whole team, and senior input pulls more weight. Wait for your actual mid internship review (which will hopefully be with someone a bit more senior?) and see what they say. Talk to the analyst again and ask for advice, tell him you're going to work your ass of the next 7 weeks to prove you have what it takes.

Most Helpful
  • Analyst 2 in IB - Cov
Jul 10, 2021 - 5:18pm

Analysts play a role in who gets return offers, but their word is not final and your feedback will incorporate all analysts' opinion. I personally would not believe this analyst. I am not sure how he would have any idea that you wont get an offer? If you haven't even had a mid-year review, I doubt there has been a group roundtable, so its unlikely the analyst would be in the know regarding return offers.

The expectations are super low for analysts and usually it comes down to attitude and growth over internship. There are no expectations that you have excel/ppt skills or background in corporate finance (imo, what the analyst said is highly problematic. People with different background might not have opportunity to develop excel skills before internship).

Once you actually get a midyear review, work with the staffer to develop an improvement game plan and then set up weekly calls to check progress (maybe every other week, don't be too excessive). Spend your free time / weekends trying to come up to speed on modeling (do it in the office if you're allowed in). Go through previously built models and jot down questions then try to find some free time to go through it with a full time analyst / associate. Just make sure you're not too excessive doing this. You want to get facetime and show that you're passionate about growing, but you don't want to come off as excessive / try hard (it is a very fine line). Get time on the calendar to talk to all the senior bankers and make an effort to meet the whole group--senior bankers are typically very receptive to chatting with interns. If you do all of this, I find it hard to believe you wont get a return offer. 

This analyst is a real d**k. You need to look out for yourself and unless you did something inappropriate, there is no way the decision has been made regarding your return offer. Honestly I would probably go to staffer right away or a senior banker you trust and say something along the lines of "xyz analyst was kind enough to share feedback with me and mentioned I need to improve abc to get a return offer. I am incredibly grateful for the opportunity to be here and I am serious about growing as a professional, helping the team out, and hopefully coming back fulltime to help the team continue to execute on its pipeline. If you were in my shoes, how would you go about improving abc?" A lot of people like providing guidance to interns; it will make them feel good you value their opinion and respect them.

Jul 10, 2021 - 5:20pm

I had the same experience in my internship where there was no training program. Couldn't ask any questions because of how cutthroat they were, my boss even said "I wish they taught PowerPoint and Excel in school". I took the feedback to heart but down the line learned that is not normal behavior, and that a team with a decent culture will work with you and help you with your weaknesses. Was there anyone else more senior you can talk to about this?

Array
  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Jul 10, 2021 - 5:27pm

Three things:

First, take your free time to learn Powerpoint and Excel shortcuts. 

Secondly, try to get work with other people. Don't let one guy bring you down -- if you can get two or three people to like you/vouch for you at end of summer, they might not care what this one analyst says.

Three, as others have said, start recruiting for FT NOW.  Have a story -- "I like the people a lot, and I find a lot of the work interesting, but I'm just not sure this area is for me and I want to explore other areas of finance/banking and see what people have to say about other types of work."

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Jul 10, 2021 - 7:09pm

In our group (mid tier BB coverage), we assume all interns know nothing and host sessions throughout the entire internship to teach them (from basic things like PPT alignment shortcuts to corporate finance math). People generally understand interns create more work than they can do (at least for the first part of the internship), and work to train them such that they can operate with way more independence towards the end. 

If your analyst is using how fast you can enter in excel shortcuts as metrics for success, then it only speaks to how unintelligent he/she is. You can be taught the formula for FCF, but you cannot be taught a good attitude and a drive to learn in 10 weeks. 

I'm sorry that you had to get paired up with this dick. I would do everything that the AN2 in the above comment said. Good luck. 

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Cov
Jul 11, 2021 - 8:45am

This is so much BS. I had interns who kept fucking up consistently, I pulled them aside and gave feedback and they got better. It should be more about fit and attitude. Keep in mind that all you need is one senior person to fight for you. Grab coffee with the head of the group. Find an MD who went to your same school and ask for their advice. Go above this analyst head and find a decent associate/vp to give proper feedback. If people are going to the office, show up everyday and keep asking how you could be of help. I personally pushed for one intern to get an offer last year when most of my team didn't like him enough and he got it. It is not impossible just keep working and also recruit elsewhere at same time. Good luck

Jul 11, 2021 - 11:42pm

Op hes doing you a favor. Sounds like a chit team and culture.  Recruit somewhere else without the lame hardos.

Array
  • VP in IB-M&A
Jul 12, 2021 - 3:55pm

why is everyone calling the analyst a dick? as far as i can tell, he did the op an *enormous* favor. Now he/she has time to ideally do two things: 1) work day and night to show improvement, and 2) recruit at every other BB/EB now.

even if the analyst only speaks for himself, op will still end up with far better reviews at his current shop and maybe an extra offer or two by summer's end. very few unsuccessful interns know their likely fates this far in advance

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Cov
Jul 13, 2021 - 1:56pm

Because analyst appears to be going on a power trip when (1) decisions have not been made this far in advance and (2) one analyst in the group does not have that much sway in someone not getting an offer. The way OP phrased this, analyst isn't giving out very productive feedback and seems like a bitter person. 

Analysts in my group take an active effort in intern development and want to see each intern convert to fulltime. This analyst could instead help the intern address the problems and be a mentor. Instead the analyst took route of being a d**k to some college kid that is working in IB / professional environment for first time. 

  • Associate 3 in PE - Other
Jul 12, 2021 - 7:46pm

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