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Trump supporters - Has Trump gone too far?

kallester's picture
Rank: Gorilla | 690

Let me start off by saying that although I wish to voice some personal sentiments, I am primarily trying to quench my curiosity regarding the matter. I hope my fellow monkeys will understand that this is not intended as a provocation.

As a Swede, and much like the rest of the world, I've been following the inception of a Trump administration with amazement. Following the president's handling of the events in Charlottesville, it seems that after a multitude of scandals and a continuous restructuring of the white house, the accumulation of events has started to reach a tipping point. I think this concern is further accentuated by the dismantling of the Manufacturing Council and Strategy & Policy Forum - which, as we've learned, was an intent that the members maintained in advance of Trump's decision.

So when these business leaders, whom I might consider the ambassadors of the private sector and capitalism as such, decide to distance themselves from a president who would rather display lenience towards alt right movements with their camo gear and combat boots and shaved heads and nazi flags - would you not say that Trump has gone too far? After all, in this forum specifically, I would be inclined to believe that you choose the suit before the combat boots and shaved head, thereon catering more to the concerns of business leaders than militant activists.

More hypothetically, is there something about Trump that you would like to have changed?

(Let me just be clear: I offer no less grief to parties and movements on the opposite extreme of the political spectrum. Any political movements that manifests itself as a lifestyle - from fashion to hair styles to symbols to music genres - does little to convince me that they are mature enough for the bureaucracy and dullness that comes with an arena for intelligent politics)

Comments (283)

Aug 16, 2017

Much of it is really just media hype, but Trump has been a lot more tone deaf on this issue than usual. It doesn't take a political animal to understand that there is NO DOWNSIDE TO VOCALLY DENOUNCING WHITE SUPREMACISTS. Trump's desire to play both sides here is quite puzzling, but I suspect it has more to do with his pushing back against being told what to do by the same media interests he hates and has rolled much of the way onto becoming President. As to whether he could ever turn off his ego long enough to be sensible...I'm skeptical. I'm still a fan but I can admit he's really botched this.

Aug 17, 2017

TL/DR: Trump is under attack from bureaucrats & commies and doesn't have the temperament to manage the optics well.
@kallester

Adverse selection generally means only the worst people rise to power in Gov't, due to it's warped incentives. They don't want to lose that power. CNN was legitimately found to be running official Psyops and hiring multiple CIA agents. So, be careful which news outlets you source. The world was shocked when Trump won. Nobody that has traveled the country and appreciates our core culture (independence, innovation, and christian-like values) was. There are literally craigslist adds paying BLM and AntiFa protesters to stir shit up more shit at these already dumb rallies. Some people want to shape the world into their vision. Some billionaires can buy influence to push their agenda quite far. People who dismiss this as implausible are quite naive and should study history.

Most 1st world foreigners will never understand America because:
1.) They live in a much more homogeneous culture with reasonably uniform topography.
2.) They don't mind socialism.

With those caveats, what you also probably can't appreciate is how large and bureaucratic the US Gov't is. Having clerked for the SEC, served in the military, and worked as a defense contractor covering financial ops, almost nobody has any clue what is going on. Departments don't talk to each other, are incredibly redundant, and are incentivized to waste resources (due to illogical budget controls).

You have to remember, John Brennan (last CIA director) is a Muslim apologist and Obama's real father is likely a communist (Frank Marshall Davis). Obama also worked for a known CIA front right out of undergrad. After 8 years of putting all his favorite people in government, changing presidents didn't even matter. His policies (rouge CIA / globalist policies) are still in place in the bureaucracy.

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Aug 17, 2017

Someone's woke af.

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Aug 17, 2017
HazelJ:

TL/DR: Trump is under attack from bureaucrats & commies and doesn't have the temperament to manage the optics well.
@kallester

Adverse selection generally means only the worst people rise to power in Gov't, due to it's warped incentives. They don't want to lose that power. CNN was legitimately found to be running official Psyops and hiring multiple CIA agents. So, be careful which news outlets you source. The world was shocked when Trump won. Nobody that has traveled the country and appreciates our core culture (independence, innovation, and christian-like values) was. There are literally craigslist adds paying BLM and AntiFa protesters to stir shit up more shit at these already dumb rallies. Some people want to shape the world into their vision. Some billionaires can buy influence to push their agenda quite far. People who dismiss this as implausible are quite naive and should study history.

Most 1st world foreigners will never understand America because:
1.) They live in a much more homogeneous culture with reasonably uniform topography.
2.) They don't mind socialism.

With those caveats, what you also probably can't appreciate is how large and bureaucratic the US Gov't is. Having clerked for the SEC, served in the military, and worked as a defense contractor covering financial ops, almost nobody has any clue what is going on. Departments don't talk to each other, are incredibly redundant, and are incentivized to waste resources (due to illogical budget controls).

You have to remember, John Brennan (last CIA director) is a Muslim apologist and Obama's real father is likely a communist (Frank Marshall Davis). Obama also worked for a known CIA front right out of undergrad. After 8 years of putting all his favorite people in government, changing presidents didn't even matter. His policies (rouge CIA / globalist policies) are still in place in the bureaucracy.

Wtf? I've worked in a goverment agency. While there is a lot of waste (buying extra machines, spending money on cars for everyone, budgets for snacks and beverages to fill a fridge, paper waste, people taking multiple walks to Starbucks) there is nothing in government that actually would make one believe that the whole thing is people sneaking around killing people and making threats like in an episode of House of Cards. Ben Shapiro has said the same thing. And I really don't get what you're saying to the other stuff

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Aug 17, 2017

You're right that most of the news that comes to us generally gets channelled through CNN and other major outlets, so I think don't think we always get the whole picture - or at least there is some ambiguity to it. What I see and read is a president who acts on impulse (which is worrying to me as I don't see how a real estate mogul can act on impulsive intuition when addressing north korean nuke threats) gets blocked at any attempt to enforce, change or repeal a policy and cant keep an administration together. This is, however, what we on the other side of the atlantic are being told.

I don't agree with your assumptions about 1st world foreigners though, at least when it comes to Europe. If the EU was to centralise disparate fiscal policies in Brussels, we would essentially have a United States of Europe. It is in fact because of how diverse our national cultures in combination with how intertwined our economies are that we have severe issues, as shown by the recent eurocrisis.

As for socialism, I'm from Sweden - a country often associated with socialism. I'm not a socialist myself, and the word leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, however, I'm not living in a soviet-style grey and gloomy state where people are lining up for meal tickets. In fact, Sweden and the other scandinavian countries are among the wealthiest, healthiest, most technologically advanced and most innovative countries in the world.If you want to start a company in Sweden, the government will hand you 5-10k and wish you good luck. Some might call us socialists for having free healthcare and education, but even after tax we still manage to pop off to the french riviera in droves and puke out our hotel windows and onto italian models.

To be fair, scandinavian countries have small populations so perhaps a dollar in tax feels productive to a greater share of the overall population than in the US or other European countries for that matter. Nonetheless, the reason we don't mind it is often because we don't *feel *it.

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Aug 18, 2017

This is the truth. People are being pitted against eachother and divided intentionally. MLK was only assassinated after he started converging races to fight economic disparities. JFK was only assassinated after he said that the CIA and secret societies needed to be "splintered into thousands of pieces and scattered into the winds".

The issue here is that people are buying into the narrative. The end goal is to create a borderless - global society with 1 large central banking system (obviously, control the money supply - control the world). The idea is continually pushed by the likes of The Economist (Rothschild owned) and other mainstream magazines. http://www.economist.com/node/166471
The central bank is being thrust upon the world by force. People like George Soros are Rothschild lackeys and are responsible for breaking down societies, destroying economies, and rebuilding them with their puppet regime in place (hence the endless string of wars). Of course, the CIA and other covert ops have been complicit in helping along these lines. If we look to history the CIA has been one of, if not the largest terrorist organizations in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra Today's news- https://www.yahoo.com/news/cia-torture-psychologis...

One thing to consider - the media narrative has consistently been focused on social issues that are either fabricated (100 different genders, what bathroom to use, using proper pronouns, identity politics) or put to bed 30+ years ago. This not only raises tensions (sex/race/religious), but it diverts attention from things that are actually important.
- https://youtu.be/GYNVNhB-m0o
The reason Trump calls the majority of media outlets "Fake News" is because the majority of it is. The agenda is as clear and it's seemingly working.
1. Make people believe that words are violence.
2. Use inflammatory language to paint entire group under 1 brush - (call every conservative a nazi).
3. Create physical altercations in the streets by hiring excitable college students and busing them in. These students are already being fully indoctrinated in their liberal arts classes, so this is pretty simple.
4. Create mayhem wherever possible and identify this as an excuse to silence free speech/erase history (google changing search algos, banning free speech applications for android, tearing down/defacing monuments, changing Wikipedia entries, Facebook censoring conservative chat rooms, etc., etc.).
5. Once the populace is fully demoralized there will either be a complete police state, a major loss of liberties, or a civil war.

For all of these reasons I have come to believe that Trump is truly doing his best but is facing a great deal of evil forces within the establishment. In reality, the issue isn't democrat vs. republican - it's the people vs. the establishment. The majority of reasonable people are happy to debate policy, but once you introduce violence, chaos, and take away free speech - all debate ceases to exist.

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Aug 18, 2017

Its not really puzzling, he says things as he sees them. He isn't wrong when he says both sides were to blame for the events of the past weekend. The problem is that the media has spent almost two years saying how Trump is causing the rise of neo-nazis and white supremacists, when in reality it is more likely that the Trump wave was driven by the insanity that is going on in third wave feminism and intersectionalism. People are just sick and tired of being told they are oppressors when they are poor and have no power at all. The rise of white nationalism stems more from this than Trump. He just speaks and acts like they wish the world did so they jump in line and support him even though they don't know shit about his policies and political beliefs.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

Aug 16, 2017

Not sure if language barrier, but trying too hard with the fancy five dollar words - this reads awkwardly. On topic: Trump is as polarizing a figure as it gets. As such, you will rarely encounter a conservative who gets pushed off of supporting Trump due to something Trump has said / done. Likewise, you will find even fewer liberals / whatever other groups of people joining the Trump camp if there was an initially strong dislike for the man.

Hot take, I know.

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Aug 17, 2017

I find that if you write something in a manner that is tiring (and perhaps awkward), you fend off trolls and others who can't be bothered reading through the content. But you're right, English is not my first language and I have to tackle 2 to 4 languages a day.. as such writing can become a bit awkward at times. Apologies for that.

Best Response
Aug 16, 2017

White nationalists and neo-Nazis are truly the scum of the earth. Their views are reprehensible and have no place in society. These racist inbreds are the only groups that I despise more than the misguided and mentally ill SJWs.

Trump mishandled this, that much is very obvious. That said - it's ironic the left always loves to stand on some racial moral high ground when they have done more to destroy race relations in this country in recent years than any of these fringe "alt-right" groups with their constant identity politics, selective outrage, support of the violent BLM movement, and labeling of every non-liberal as a Nazi sympathizer. Just as the BLM supporter who shot and killed 5 police officers should not typify a rational liberal, neither should the guy who ran over the poor woman with the car be associated with rational conservatives.

Anyways such is politics in America. An endless cycle of each side triggering each other...both sides are emotionally charged right now and inciting violence on one another. Left wing or right wing, they belong to the same bird...

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Aug 17, 2017

The difference being a BLM supporter shot and killed 5 officers...which wasn't the purpose of the movement. The "unite the right" movement was entirely a white supremacist movement carrying torches, and the ensuing violence was directly related to their nazi chants and symbolism. Watching Trump walk away, refuse to condemn them and refuse to answer regarding what message that sends to supremacists, is an answer. Not to mention lying about which protest had permits (it wasn't the Nazis) and trying to paint the counterprotestors as violent, that's sympathy. It's a nod to the racial tensions he fanned throughout the campaign. It's hard for me, at least, to listen to people just say: "well, he just mishandled the situation." No, he was pressured into saying the right thing, hated it and doubled down on his true beliefs. Why are figures like Steve Bannon in the white house? Let's call it like it is.

Aug 17, 2017

Sure it's not the explicit purpose but when they are chanting "pigs in a blanket, fry em like bacon" at their marches and mocking the cops killed on duty on social media it gives you an idea of what they really want. More cops are killed by black people annually than the other way around. Should white people go protest gangs in the hood?

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Aug 17, 2017

You're willfully ignoring one of the main characteristics of BLM, which is that it has a strong anti-cop bias.

Please tell me how Trump has "fanned racial tensions" throughout his campaign.

Steve Bannon is in the White House because he turned around the Trump campaign with an emphasis on America-first economic policy focused on lost manufacturing which spoke directly to the Mid-West and is why Trump won the election. What exactly were you implying?

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Aug 17, 2017

It's true, the theme behind BLM is honorable, while white supremacists are literally pushing for inequality. However, It really doesn't matter what the purpose of the movement was, they both incited violence.

How did he double down on his true beliefs? How do you even know what his real beliefs are? He's denounced white supremacists multiple times, has said racism is bad, etc. It really doesn't matter what he does, short of committing suicide on CNN live, whatever he does would not enough.

Aug 17, 2017

The unite the right rally had a permit. The city tried to revoke it a week before the rally but they appealed in court, and won.

Aug 16, 2017

I'm a hard-right, intolerant, close-minded conservative and even I have had it with Trump. That guy is just detestable. I genuinely can't imagine spending 5 minutes with him in a room and I feel sorry for his family (his kids and wife actually seem like decent people).

Just with regard to the latest situation, Trump isn't a racist or even sympathetic to white nationalism (his daughter and son-in-law are Jewish...); the primary problem is that Trump has a very bizarre personality defect. I don't want to be an internet psychologist, so I may get all kinds of terminology wrong, but he is easily manipulated through praise and criticism (sign of extreme narcissism?). The last 2 or 3 years has shown that he really doesn't like to criticize people who say nice things about him, and the white nationalists were saying nice things about him at the rally (which means nothing--you'd see praise-worthy stuff about Obama on Marxist websites, too--don't read too much into it--Obama was not a Marxist and Trump is not a Nazi).

The second problem is that there has been a great mis-use of political terminology the last year or so, which most people don't seem to understand. The true "alt-right" has been around for 2 decades or so, and they are white nationalists; however, like any political ideology, there are varying degrees of extremist ideology. Some true alt-righters just believe in white identity politics (the way the NAACP believes in black identity politics) while others are full blown racists and Jew-haters. Some of their political positions on things like immigration resemble a very conservative, but almost mainstream conservative, position, and in the last 2 years a populist movement backed by Trump has mis-labeled themselves (and has been mis-labeled by others) as "alt-right" due to an overlap in some political positions. Trump, Bannon, et al aren't actually "alt-right"--they are right-leaning populists, but not alt-righters. So with the mis-labeling comes the media's automatic connection of Trump and Nazi marchers. The mis-labeling has gotten so bad that Jewish, never-Trumper conservatives like Ben Shapiro are being absurdly labeled as "alt-right." And the reality is, most people have no idea what they're talking about. In fact, there are a lot of conservatives who believe they are "alt-right" but don't really realize what it is.

Aug 17, 2017

Seems like he did go too far on this one. White supremacists killed a white woman out of anger for going against their cause. Then Trump couldn't even genuinely give the country and the girl's friends and family condolences for the lost. The papers that are ran by these people support Trump and everyone called him a Nazi since the beginning, so then he indirectly decided to take the side of this camp, almost as if he's trying to confess that he is secretly a hood wearer.

Not only did he botch the death of an American due to domestic terrorism then winged his 'many sides' defense of the terrorists, he talked shit about the people on his side when they needed to clear their conscious. Right now, the Russian investigation is at a point where they are close to learning about how close Trump was to associating with a foreign government about undermining our electoral system.

He's becoming an easier target by the day. With both the Manufacturing and Strategic Policy counsels coming apart, it's clear business leaders lack faith in Trump's leadership and don't believe he'll be very effective in passing an economically friendly agenda. His administration has too many seats undimmed, seats keep moving around, there's way too much distraction in the White House. All we need is for Congress to stamp this president as a failure and he'd be out. He already has a pretty low chance of accomplishing anything in the first 365 days, I just wonder how long we can keep putting up with this child.

God help us for whatever's next. This has been a horrible president, even worse than Obama ;)

EDIT: the right thing to do would've been to call out Nazism first and foremost. Then talk about why he thought there were multiple sides to blame. The thin haired pink one is literally retarded and is incapable of doing so.

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Aug 18, 2017

.

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Aug 17, 2017

Trump just rebuked AMZN for being successful: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-16...
What a complete load of fucking shit. The Republican Party needs to primary and replace this guy.

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Aug 17, 2017
lwmg:

Trump just rebuked AMZN for being successful: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-16...
What a complete load of fucking shit. The Republican Party needs to primary and replace this guy.

[Stands and applauds]

We conservatives need to get this guy out of office.

Aug 17, 2017

Lmao Trump doesn't give a shit about AMZN reducing retail jobs, he is mad that the WaPo keeps writing negative stories about him and he is taking it out on AMZN cuz Bezos owns the Post.

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Aug 17, 2017

Ding ding ding

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Aug 17, 2017

I have no problem with denouncing both sides--commies and black supremacists who attack people for their opinions aren't deserving of praise either. But to say there were some "fine people" at the white supremacist rally is disturbing.

It is insane to see the differing reaction of the media to Charlottesville in comparison to last year when a BLM supporters were shooting cops in Texas and Louisiana. Obamas only response was to say "sure this is bad, but the police are racist. Both shootings and BLMs following celebration of the attacks on social media were swept under the rug within hours.

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Aug 17, 2017

People need to stop getting their news from the MSM.

Trump has repeatedly denounced the Alt-right, many many times. How many times do you want him to say it? On Saturday he said both sides were to blame, the media had a field day. He said on Monday that the alt-right was to blame, the media had a field day. He said on Tuesday that both sides were to blame, the media had a field day. See a pattern here. The majority of people can see through this, the daily howling by the media is nauseating, turn it off.

He also denounced the Alt-left, and I'm glad he did (and btw the base has been calling for this for months, a lot of them called it his strongest move yet). Antifa are paid instigators. These white nationalists have been having rallies all the time, and no one cared or followed it. Why all the media attention now?

Honestly, I hope the left keeps pushing identity politics, its such a losing argument and people are tired of it. Does anyone honestly here think that Trump is a racist?

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Aug 17, 2017
m8:

These white nationalists have been having rallies all the time, and no one cared or followed it. Why all the media attention now?

Exactly. Because the media knows people are extremely emotional right now. And they're trying to instigate as much as possible to get a reaction. Ignore the idiots and carry on.

Aug 17, 2017

He fully denounced what happened and condemned, in no unclear terms, all forms of bigotry/hate including white supremacy and nazism, by name, and an FBI investigation was promptly launched.

He could raise the dead and the left would be outraged.

Aug 17, 2017

Exactly, thank you.

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Aug 17, 2017

Honestly, this fighting is long over due. Fucking Trump needs to just stay out of it and let the animals be animals, while instead focusing on the important matters for the rest of this civil country. The guy lacks focus and competence.

I think it's unfortunate he can't construct something to say that's longer than 140 characters or he might be able to develop a comprehensive and clear response to things.

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Aug 17, 2017

While I agree to an extent, the President has to weigh in on this. Did obama weigh in in all the cop killings? He got shit for it from the right, but felt compelled.

We have small scale civil war happening. This shit can accelerate. Congressmen were shot at by an angry leftist. Now you have an apparent right freak driving into people. This is how riots happen.

Aug 17, 2017

I think he has to weigh in, but stating your position is not contributing a rational thought. He needs a writer to put something together and he just reads it. You can't tweet at this problem if you're going to say something. Obama actually improved in talking about Americans being Americans. His worst statements on race came early on in his presidency.

Aug 17, 2017

The transcripts of what trump said are online. On Aug 12th he denounced racists and violence and issues condolences for the young woman. On the. 14th he talked about the DOJ looking at hate drums and further denounced them. He did it again as well.

But everyone only cares when he puts blame on the left as well.

And ignore the BLM people. The culprits were the ANTIFA people who brought weapons and attack people who they label as Nazis (which included some of the people who attended the march).

And the alt right had to sue to have their right to March. The ACLI got behind them. They had a right to be there, no matter how repugnant the message. The counter protesters did not.

Additionally, attacking Nazis is one thing, but labeling everyone who supports Trump, wants to repeal Obamacare or doesn't support the radical social policies that the left is no pushing as "Nazis" isn't right.

These clowns caused violence in Berkeley over Milo. They shut down legit speakers who they consider having a non leftist message. These people are dangerous and someone needs to say it.

This isn't about BLM (which has a admirable stance, just a bad message) or the anti racists (once again, admirable, just bad execution).

Why are Dems focusing on statues and the .0001% who show up to these "alt right" marches. Do they think people in MI, PA, WV who don't have jobs, haven't seen wages increase, have seen healthcare prices increase, etc care about this shit?

You'd think the left would have seen this election and realized that mainstream wins the day. Instead they seem to be doubling down and moving far left. Midterms will be really interesting to see if they can come back strong.

Btw - NAFTA negotiatings are in process. Trumps moving the lower courts right in a dramatic way, Sessions keeps ploughing away with more ICE agents, Perry is pushing to make coal and nuclear favored energy sources and none of this is being reported on.

Aug 17, 2017

No daily storm today? This was actually quite rational. Idk why everyone on this thread brought up BLM, the Nazis said multiple times "the antifa" in their descriptions of the events. And Trump's administration has been notably changing course on regulation. But major pieces of legislation doesn't look like it's going to pass. As far as NAFTA goes, it depends on what comes out of the talks, which I have more faith in Ross than in anything Trump is doing. The energy thing is taking strides on multiple sides, but it's a little silly, where renewables is expected to take major shape in the next decade. We should be training people to work in this field.

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Aug 17, 2017

Har har har.

Congress is useless. They were gimps the last 6 years with obama and are gimps now. But Trumps slowly chipping away, through EO and cabinet appointees. No one covers this shit though.

And while I'm a Yankee at heart, I don't get ripping down statues. The history of some of these southern generals was truly part of this country. It isn't like ALL they did was the civil war. Furthermore, lot of northern generals would have been brought up for human rights violations.

Gen. Sherman march to the sea? Hague would have tried his ass. Washington wrote a book on managing slaves that was horrible. So if we start applying current morals to past times we are in for an wild ride.

And strategically, these statues are all in the south. Do you think this makes those states more or less right leaning? This basically solidifies an us vs them.

And does this gain any votes for the Dems in Michigan? Or coal town WV? Doubtful. But it makes college kids feel happy and NYC liberals love it. Cool, but that formula allowed a rapist to get elected. Sure as hell won't beat Pence.

Aug 17, 2017

He is doing a good job of inspiring the majority of America's population of left-leaning urban dwellers who were too lazy or didn't like Hillary enough to vote in November 2016 to show up in droves in November 2020...if he makes it that far.

Aug 17, 2017

They all showed up to vote. She didn't get minority turn out of traditional democrats (labor). Dems are moving further left as the republicans redistrict.

Ignore the presidency. Republicans control almost all levels of government across this country. How is the Dem message going to turn that? Where is their jobs platform? Where is their plan to Fix the healthcare they voted for? Where is their plan to box in NK?

All I see and hear is pulling down statues and transgender rights.

Edit - Dems are deff motivating certain elecmentw in their base. I see Cali and NYC going even more for a Dem candidate. Unfortunately, the popular vote still doesn't win the election.

FL is most likely red. Ohio isn't moving on these fringe issues. Michigan has shown a pro labor Republican can win the day and I don't see Dems trying to reach out to white, blue collar workers. PA is blue unless you get minority turn out in Philly high enough - again, that's not gonna happen with the issues Dems push.

What, they gain another million in cali and bitch about the popular vote? I mean how are these issues swinging red states back blue? Trump won those states because he talked jobs. Dems aren't talking jobs.

Aug 17, 2017

From his history (lawsuits etc.), his comments during the campaign, and his comments now - defending confederate statues even today as we speak - it is pretty clear Donald Trump is a racist. You compare Thomas Jefferson, the author of the declaration of independence, to Jefferson Davis, a guy known pretty much exclusively for being the civilian leader of a revolt against the United States government. Yea, they both owned slaves, one guy has statues for his positive contributions to our nation, why the fuck are there Robert E Lee statues in Baltimore? Why the fuck do inner city kids have to go to schools named after Robert E Lee? There are three times more statues of confederate leaders in the capitol than there are of black civil rights leaders (MLK, Tubman, etc.), these people were traitors but we want to act like they made some positive contribution to this nation in order to satisfy the status quo in this country. Mississippi still has the confederate flag as part of its state flag to this day. Then we have a subset of people that want to blame our racial divide on Obama & BLM, what a joke.

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Aug 17, 2017

Trump renounced these racists like David Duke yestreday, on Monday, on Saturday, and also 16 years ago:

"Although I am totally comfortable with the people in the New York Independence Party, I leave the Reform Party to David Duke, Pat Buchanan and Lenora Fulani. That is not company I wish to keep."
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/19/opinion/what-i-s...
But sure, twist his words and assume his intentions (of which you or I know nothing). The guy is white. Reality is, he's no more racist than every other non-minority president, congressmen and governor we've had. These people don't give a fuck about the well-being or the real prejudices minorities face. They create a culture of victimhood to keep them down.

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Aug 17, 2017

70s- Trump was sued for discriminatory rental practices

80s - A former Trump employee accused Trump of racial discrimination - saying when he and Ivanka came to Trump's casino, black employees were ordered off the floor

Late 80s - Central park five case where four black teens and one hispanic was accused of raping a woman, Trump took out an ad calling to bring back the death penalty. The teens were convicted and spent 13 years in prison before a confession by another guy and DNA evidence exonerated them, they were awarded a $41 million settlement. In a later interview Trump said he still believes they are guilty

90s - A book by John O'Donnell, former president of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino in Atlantic City, quoted Trump's criticism of a black accountant: "Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. ... I think that the guy is lazy. And it's probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It's not anything they can control." Trump at first denied the remarks, but later said in a 1997 Playboy interview that "the stuff O'Donnell wrote about me is probably true."

I don't feel like continuing, keep being an apologist for him though

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Aug 17, 2017

Honestly I feel a lot of these new emerging far-right organizations are a backlash against the left-wing identity politics the left has promoted all these years. I am not defending the far-right. I'm Asian, and I'll need to flee if the Richard Spencer crowd ever get hold of real power. However, you have to wonder how many of those people in the rally became that way due to the repeated identity politics attack from the left.
This reminds me only time someone outright judged me based on race was when I discussed politics with a college liberal. This person found out I was a libertarian, and he more or less said that I was brainwashed and needed to be "rescued" by the enlightened left. WTF was my reaction.

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Aug 17, 2017

Of course it is backlash. Many white people feel they are losing their preferred status in this country and are mad about it. That's not surprising. A majority of Republicans believe discrimination against white ppl is a bigger issue than discrimination against minorities. What I don't get is why that reaction should be the left's fault.

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Aug 17, 2017

Lol I totally get what you're getting at with the left. Some of them are so self-absorbed it's unbelievable. It really makes you wonder what exactly they want out of people at this point. Bad reactions towards them don't even come off unexpected anymore.

I'm Asian too and I have had many, many instances of open hostility towards my thoughts on culture and race by other leftists who want to preach about equality. These are also the same people who, to my face, called me Chinese and assumed I knew a lot about Chinese culture and identity because I was labeled as "Chinese" in their minds.

For the record I am not Chinese and it's abundantly obvious I'm not.

EDIT: I also think the biggest irony though was the fact that the same people who kept calling me Chinese were also Asian. It gets a bit annoying when people bitch about whites being racist when literally some Chinese-American bitch called me Chinese even though I'm not.

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Aug 17, 2017
Formaldehyde41:

Honestly I feel a lot of these new emerging far-right organizations are a backlash against the left-wing identity politics the left has promoted all these years. I am not defending the far-right. I'm Asian, and I'll need to flee if the Richard Spencer crowd ever get hold of real power. However, you have to wonder how many of those people in the rally became that way due to the repeated identity politics attack from the left.
This reminds me only time someone outright judged me based on race was when I discussed politics with a college liberal. This person found out I was a libertarian, and he more or less said that I was brainwashed and needed to be "rescued" by the enlightened left. WTF was my reaction.

I talk about Ben Shapiro a lot because I feel like he's the last intellectually honest commentator/journalist in America. Shapiro detests the alt-right and calls them "evil" and calls all racism evil, but he points out that white identity politics is a direct response to Latino, Asian, black, women, et al identity politics that more or less makes broad accusations of white privilege in an era where white men are starting to fall behind. How do people think it feels for a poor white person with drug addicted friends to be called "privileged" by Ivy League students and professors?

Aug 17, 2017

leave asians out of this

Aug 17, 2017

I am sorry but white privilege exists, period. Others pointing it out leading to backlash is what it is but that doesn't make it any less real. What is unfortunate is that instead of examining the perspective of these minority groups people are lashing out against them, it's truly unfortunate.

Aug 17, 2017

As a Trump supporter I would say yes, he went too far. I think he is winking at these alt-right people in a way that is very inappropriate to say the least. I have been really rethinking my support of him over the last few days.

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Aug 17, 2017

What bothers me the most about this whole thing is Trump was given a political lay up and was not competent or disciplined enough to just say what 99% of the world wanted to hear and be done with the situation.

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Aug 17, 2017

You mean 99% of the echo chamber that you live in. A LARGE swatch of America had absolutely no problem with what President Trump stated, and thought that it was well reasoned and sensible.

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Aug 18, 2017

no probably about 99% of the world, business leaders and and political leaders around the world including Iran did not want to hear that. I'm sure if you do the math 1% or less or worldwide people support nazi principles. Sounds like you need to find a smarter "echo chamber" to hangout in.

Aug 17, 2017

As someone who voted for Trump for reasons outside of popular opinion, I think he's doing the right things but may not necessarily be saying "the right" things. But does that bother me? No. Because it's better to hear straight truth than getting a sugar coated, watered down, politically correct version that won't get anyone to pay attention to the Federal Government. His ability to get people to start paying more attention to the government is being VASTLY underestimated right now. Whether you love him or hate him, it's happening on an unprecedented level. Individuals who may have never cared previously, care now and it's hopefully turning around the apathetic sentiment of the American people.

I feel if you can manage to piss off the media-industrial-complex to the point where they are airing nothing but negative/targeted material 24/7, you're doing something right. While many feel emotionally triggered due to where they are getting their information from in relation to their relative view of how they THINK the * real world* works, I think there a lot of working class individuals (military/law enforcement included) that are appreciative and many others too. It's a change that's needed to happen ( I believe Bernie's and Trump's supporter base, in one form or another, were a manifestation of the growing unrest about how our country has been running).

Many choose to criticize him for these first few months in office but I would like to remind you all that he's not the champion of the Republican party. He's not fulfilling party goals. They are staying silent and letting the Democrats talk for them. Neither side likes Trump and the pro-American stance he has taken. God forbid.

Right now our country is a welfare system for not only the very poor, but the very rich. The politicians do just enough to keep the population fat, stupid, and occupied while they skim off the top what they can. Let the outsourcing and monopolies continue, let small businesses get easily bought out because they can't compete or are bankrupted due to stupid litigation brought up on by more financially stronger firms.

And the only reason I view all of this as a substantial problem is because the Chinese government is united as a strategic body that is actively seeking to do everything they can to become THE dominant power while the United States has become lazy and complacent. Sure we can keep fighting in favor of the Petro Dollar and selling our country out for personal gain but what's the plan afterwards? This won't last forever.

So hopefully with this renewed focus on improving America and empowering Americans, we can see a brighter future.

And just turn off Social Media/TV, it's unbearable no matter what part of the spectrum you support and nothing is to be gained but emotional kneejerk reactions and outbursts.

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Aug 17, 2017

This post is all drivel that works under the assumption that Trump's suggested policies will ACTUALLY help America or that he knows wtf he is doing... I don't agree with him from a policy standpoint and don't think he knows wtf he is doing. After all, he was ready to push whatever healthcare bill came across his desk for the sake of a "win". He is the worst form of politician, a serial liar and an opportunist with no real steadfast principles, which is amazing because he'd never been in politics.

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Aug 17, 2017

Thanks for your opinion Bob.

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Aug 17, 2017

Trump is exactly the president that America now needs, if he were not constantly hindered, he could have done much for the country.

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Aug 17, 2017

Hindered by the cabinet of fucking idiots he put together himself? The Republican majority in Congress? In any event he's probably too busy golfing, reading Tweets about himself and watching Fox News that he just doesn't have time to make America great again.

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Aug 17, 2017

I did not support Trump during the primaries. I did not support him in the general election (supported the Libertarian ticket). I didn't support him during much of his presidency. I don't believe in his economic protectionist policies or in his stance on immigration restriction. But after the events at Charlottesville, I have immense respect for him.

The left has gone off the fucking deep end since the election.

Elements of the federal government and security agencies have violated federal privacy and espionage laws repeatedly by leaking classified information and de-masking his associates in an attempt to destroy his legitimacy. The media has pushed blatantly false stories, narratives and conspiracy theories about pee-pee parties in attempt to destroy him politically. States are in open rebellion against federal law with regard to immigration and drug policy. District courts are blatantly disregarding case law and the constitution in reaching their conclusions. Congress has passed unconstitutional laws that directly impede on the president's constitutional authority, limiting his and his team's ability to conduct foreign policy.

The supreme court has historically acted as a check on executive authority, but for the first time in this nation's history, it will act as the last defender of the president's constitutional authority.

The left openly endorses radical left-wing militant groups that are responsible for billions of dollars in property damage, the death of multiple police officers and an attack on Republican congressmen. They openly violate law while the police are told to stand down by their politically driven, left-wing mayors, which ultimately resulted in the tragic death of one activist in Charlottesville. Many more were injured as the police allowed effectively a free-for-all between spiked bat and flame-thrower wielding radicals.

We are at a point now where the left openly states that only certain groups are entitled to first amendment rights and that other groups will be violently assaulted and shut down for holding contrarian views. "Fascists," they say, don't have first amendment rights. "Hate speech" isn't protected they say. The supreme court has made it clear that "hate speech" doesn't exist - it has no objective meaning in the law and everyone right of Bill Maher is a "fascist" according to the left (though Bill Maher is increasingly taking heat on the left as well).

The left is pushing this country towards a post-legal society with vandals running around destroying property, monuments and punching people in the face while the police just stand by. We're literally moving towards anarchy.

The president's decision to stand up and say the truth, when it would have been so fucking easy to cower, was inspiring. He was simply factually correct in his statements:

  • We cannot destroy the past simply because we're uncomfortable with it
  • There was violence on both sides
  • White nationalists are despicable but so too are militant communist thugs
  • The police have a duty to protect and to serve, including those that they may find despicable

Seriously, he wasn't really my president until he stood up and spoke the truth when it would have been so easy to lie and to praise the anarchy of the left.

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Aug 17, 2017

I will address what you said after your supreme court line, the shit you posted before that is irrelevant and I don't care to go down that rabbit hole.

The left is the issue here right? Not the neo-Nazis, not the Nazi who attacked people using his vehicle, you even somehow blame the left for that incident, wow. The left supports BLM, I didn't realize BLM called for cop killings in their mission statement, never mind that the guy who commited that atrocity in Dallas had no connection to BLM. Then you go on to discuss the congress attack, dude was a lone wolf but yea, it is the lefts support of "militant groups" that caused that attack. You talk about property damage as if every riot is at the behest of an organized group, and go on to say the left supports these riots, amazing. Let's talk about human casualties, right-wing terrorism has killed 109 people since 2001, how many lives do you think left wingers have taken? Where is your screed denouncing the right for motivating such lunatics? Nonexistent.

"We cannot destroy the past simply because we're uncomfortable with it"

Taking down statues does not "destroy the past".. this is a false equivalence and it is bullshit.

"There was violence on both sides"

Agreed, but only one side (109 is now 110) took a life

"White nationalists are despicable but so too are militant communist thugs"

There is no equivalence between Nazis who want to eradicate minorities and groups like antifa. They shouldn't even be in the same sentence.

"The police have a duty to protect and to serve, including those that they may find despicable"

Agreed. Ironically, BLM is for police reform that would foster more trust between the police and the community but you characterize them as a violent militant group.

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Aug 17, 2017

It's simple really, because you're evidently too thick headed to get past your feelz...

No matter how despicable and vile their rhetoric, which side had a LEGAL permit, at the order of a Federal judge, to protest? Which side did not have a legal permit, and ILLEGALLY assembled to counter-protest while also brandishing a plethora of weapons?

Unfortunately for some people laws still do matter, and as Esuric stated, the 1st amendment and Supreme Court precedents don't give a shit about your feelz. If you don't like the laws as they currently sit then work to get them changed, but good luck with that.

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Aug 17, 2017

Here's what I said,

Esuric:
  • There was violence on both sides
  • White nationalists are despicable but so too are militant communist thugs

Here's how you interpreted it,

BobTheBaker:

The left is the issue here right? Not the neo-Nazis, not the Nazi who attacked people using his vehicle, you even somehow blame the left for that incident, wow.

You should work on that kiddo.

The rest of your post is effectively just a tantrum.

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Aug 17, 2017

It's hard to admit but after criticizing Fox News during Obama's term, they are actually a more complete news organizations relative to CNN & the others. I can't even believe I just said that. I think Hillary's new PAC(s) are promoting dissent to further divide the country and stop Trump's momentum. It'll continue to unfold like this as there are billions at stake, and money is flowing to support these groups to ensure nothing is accomplished. In the big picture, it's very telling what is going on and only very few are able to put all the pieces together.

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Aug 17, 2017

lol @ this load of bullshit. Fox News "a more complete news"... rofl. Trump's momentum.... lol. You got it all figured out man. HRC's pacs are the reason a republican majority can't pass shit and Fox News is the arbiter of unbiased news. This provided a good laugh, I gave you an SB just for that

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Aug 18, 2017
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Aug 18, 2017
Aug 18, 2017

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