Tucker Max Hangs Up His Spurs

Mod note: Blast from the Past - "Best of Eddie." This one is originally from January 2012.

Hat tip to Kools for this one. We all knew this day would come (well, either this or an angry boyfriend would shoot him), but Tucker Max has finally thrown in the towel. After a decade of well-chronicled debauchery, he's giving it all up because he...wants to get married and have kids?

Fuh...what???

It's true. And to that end, he's in therapy. Lots and lots of therapy. To work out...well...mommy issues. I have to admit that I'm a little disappointed. Not that he's doing what he has to do to get healthy - I applaud that. I'm just disappointed that there won't be any more of his outrageous tales after Hilarity Ensues.

He has a girlfriend now. Yeah, as in, one. According to both of them, he only goes out a couple times a month now. He spends hours in therapy every week discussing his former narcissism. And worst of all - he hopes to get married and have kids someday.

I think he needs to be careful what he wishes for. I can say from personal experience that there's no way to go from living like a wild man to being a husband and father without a lot of deceleration trauma. And once you've got kids, there's no going back. Trust me. Every Friday night when I take my dogs for their last walk before bed and I see everyone in Paris dressed to the nines and going out to have sex with strangers while I go home to bed because I have to get up early and take my kids to basketball in the morning...well...some of those lower tree limbs start looking pretty inviting. Just sayin'.

One point Tucker brings up in the interview that I found especially interesting was that he exceeded every aspiration he ever had as a writer - he sold millions of books, made a movie, made millions of dollars, basically has "it all" - and he still wasn't happy. I think it's a fair point for all of us to pay attention to. If you're doing what you're doing just to rack up the high score, don't be surprised when you're older and you're miserable. In other words, do what you do because you enjoy it.

I'm sorry to see Tucker go. Among other things, he was an Internet pioneer. He was one of the first true bloggers. His website was a smash hit before he ever wrote a book - and he gave away all that stuff for free. For better or worse, he spawned a new literary genre (fratire - though he personally hates the term) and he's been imitated ever since. 35 seems like a young age to be walking away from it all, but then you have to wonder how much longer he could run at that pace anyway.

I'm looking forward to his new book. He's always made me laugh. I know plenty of people hate him, and many think his stories are total bullshit, but who cares? The guy got rich and smashed a ridiculous number of randoms, all while drinking to excess. To that I say:

Well played, sir.

What do you guys think? Love him or hate him? Is this a good time for him to retire, or is he just pussing out? Should he get married and have kids? Would you want Tucker Max for a father?

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Comments (94)

Jan 24, 2012 - 8:15am

Shit, hard to say how I feel about this. Def. an interesting article, I can really relate to the authors experience. Discovering Tucker Max's writing kind of kicked off my crazy 20-something years; it's interesting to see why/how these guys are getting out of the game. Reminds me of the end of Neil Strauss's crazy PUA days, when he basically came to the same conclusion.

We're all getting older, wiser, etc. I'm tempted to draw a parallel to my experience of consulting... you think that the money, prestige, etc is going to fill the void you're feeling at work, but in the end you're making powerpoint fluff and blowing smoke up your clients ass for 60 hours a week. You might come away a little richer and a little farther up the corp ladder than you would have otherwise, but the job in itself should be rewarding. You can't fuck and drink your way to happiness, and if you don't like consulting, you're just spinning the wheels regurgitating value chains.

If only Powerpoint were as much fun as drinking. I guess that's how guys who love MBB make it to partner level.

Jan 24, 2012 - 8:30am

In all of his books he's mentioned that he had been in a monogomous (sp?) relationship previously, and that in the future he wanted to settle down, get married and have kids. He is 36 after all.

It'll definitely be interesting to see how his kids turn out. And i feel like the shock value of his writing has started to wear off, it's definitely a good time for him to give up the dream before his dick falls off

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk
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Jan 24, 2012 - 8:51am

Sad day but one can't keep up that pace for long. I wonder if the counseling was his idea or his girlfriends'? I smell a succubus.

The world is what it is; men who are nothing, who allow themselves to become nothing, have no place in it. -V. S. Naipaul
Jan 24, 2012 - 9:13am

To preface, I find his stories hilarious and think he's a great writer, though I expect they're (at best) fairly exaggerated. #1 clue: the litany throw-away characters who constantly exclaim things like "I always thought your stories were made up!"

That aside, even if his stories are a 100% true depiction of his (former) life, I've never met anyone who lived like that who wasn't deeply damaged in some other way. Maybe it's mommy issues, maybe it's something else, but it's always something. This isn't about being able to land women, it's about being unable to develop any sort of human relationship with the opposite sex.

I'm not talking about guys who serially have one night stands (everyone needs to get theirs). I mean the kind of person who is ok with having some random hookup tattoo his name on her pelvis or who goes out of his way to try to fuck a dwarf for the sake of the story (and then publishes that story on the internet). My goofy-looking friend who still manages to take home hot girl after hot girl but never calls a single one? BIZARRE relationship with his mom. Friend of a friend who dates legitimate models and the occasional lower-tier actress, but gets bored with every single one of them after a few dates? Left by his fiance right before the wedding when he was younger.

There have been many great comebacks throughout history. Jesus was dead but then came back as an all-powerful God-Zombie.
  • 3
Jan 24, 2012 - 9:29am
Edmundo Braverman:

I think he needs to be careful what he wishes for. I can say from personal experience that there's no way to go from living like a wild man to being a husband and father without a lot of deceleration trauma. And once you've got kids, there's no going back.

Could you elaborate more on this deceleration trauma?

Edmundo Braverman:

In other words, do what you do because you enjoy it.

Word. Honestly, I read a couple of the guy's articles and thought they were funny, but I think reading about Tucker "giving it all up" so to speak will be the best thing for a lot of guys on this forum. If all this guy had to do was shamelessly write about his former escapades for the money and STILL wasn't happy, I think that speaks volumes.

Jan 24, 2012 - 10:33am
Culcet:
Edmundo Braverman:

I think he needs to be careful what he wishes for. I can say from personal experience that there's no way to go from living like a wild man to being a husband and father without a lot of deceleration trauma. And once you've got kids, there's no going back.

Could you elaborate more on this deceleration trauma?

Any time you go from one extreme to another, it's a major adjustment. If you were a particularly effective cocksman, then a monogamous relationship is going to be brutal until you adjust. Likewise, if your M.O. was to party 5 nights a week till the wee hours and then you have to stop for whatever reason. your head is going to explode.

I'm firmly convinced that the core cause of almost every failed relationship is boredom. You can love someone or you can hate them and still make it. But as soon as you're bored with that person, it's all over. Kids raise it to a whole other level, because there is no out. I mean, sure, you can be a total shitbag and abandon your kids and I guess plenty of guys do, but that's simply wrong. With kids you're stuck, and there's generally no escape from the boredom.

For 95% of the guys out there this will never be a problem. The vast, vast majority of guys are happy to settle down and raise a family eventually, and they content themselves with golf on Sunday and fantasy football and other meaningless distractions. But for the guys who really tore it up, the boredom can be absolutely crippling. That's what I mean by deceleration trauma.

Jan 24, 2012 - 11:12am
Edmundo Braverman:
Culcet:
Edmundo Braverman:

I think he needs to be careful what he wishes for. I can say from personal experience that there's no way to go from living like a wild man to being a husband and father without a lot of deceleration trauma. And once you've got kids, there's no going back.

Could you elaborate more on this deceleration trauma?

Any time you go from one extreme to another, it's a major adjustment. If you were a particularly effective cocksman, then a monogamous relationship is going to be brutal until you adjust. Likewise, if your M.O. was to party 5 nights a week till the wee hours and then you have to stop for whatever reason. your head is going to explode.

I'm firmly convinced that the core cause of almost every failed relationship is boredom. You can love someone or you can hate them and still make it. But as soon as you're bored with that person, it's all over. Kids raise it to a whole other level, because there is no out. I mean, sure, you can be a total shitbag and abandon your kids and I guess plenty of guys do, but that's simply wrong. With kids you're stuck, and there's generally no escape from the boredom.

For 95% of the guys out there this will never be a problem. The vast, vast majority of guys are happy to settle down and raise a family eventually, and they content themselves with golf on Sunday and fantasy football and other meaningless distractions. But for the guys who really tore it up, the boredom can be absolutely crippling. That's what I mean by deceleration trauma.

eddie, you need to stop freaking me out. i'm in a serious relationship right now and all of your stuff is depressing about marriage. yet you've done it 3 times.... ;-) i get the boredom (I've been in several LONG relationships), but isn't any relationship with any woman susceptible to "boredom creep"? I mean, isnt that why relationships are "work" - because you have to work to keep them interesting / fun / whatever?

I want kids, so at some point I'm going to have to take the plunge...everyone is so anti-marriage and I get why. It can be boring as hell to be with the same person after 5-10-15-40+ years...but I also think it can be rewarding if done right with the right partner. so anybody know any good places for diamond rings? is blue nile really a good deal?

-Patrick

Jan 24, 2012 - 9:33am

Kenny_Powers_CFA are you telling me you wouldnt fuck a midget to be able to tell everyone you fucked a midget?

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk
Jan 24, 2012 - 9:57am
TonyPerkis:
Kenny_Powers_CFA are you telling me you wouldnt fuck a midget to be able to tell everyone you fucked a midget?

I have traveled to another city to have sex.
I might have sex with a midget if the opportunity came up assuming it was a reasonably attractive midget.
I would probably tell everyone if I did.
I would not travel to another city to have sex with a midget for the story.
There have been many great comebacks throughout history. Jesus was dead but then came back as an all-powerful God-Zombie.
  • 1
Jan 24, 2012 - 10:54am
Kenny_Powers_CFA:
TonyPerkis:
Kenny_Powers_CFA are you telling me you wouldnt fuck a midget to be able to tell everyone you fucked a midget?

I have traveled to another city to have sex.
I might have sex with a midget if the opportunity came up assuming it was a reasonably attractive midget.
I would probably tell everyone if I did.
I would not travel to another city to have sex with a midget for the story.

Agree. In my previous life, I loved to travel to different city for that weekend hook-up. Best 2-3 days, and then you get to leave no drama mama. Alas, I am a mono (not the disease) man myself now.

But I don't think I've seen a midget that would turn me on enough to go through with it. Anyone?

----------------------------------------------------------------- Hug It Out
  • 2
Jan 24, 2012 - 9:50am

Interesting quote in the article that I think many monkeys should take note of:

"I have all the external accomplishments. I'm rich, I'm famous, blah-blah-blah. But that shit doesn't matter in the context of meaningful relationship. Who gives a shit if you're rich-if you're a dick to your wife or you're not in touch with your feelings, what does that matter? It doesn't mean shit. What matters is the quality of your relationship."

MM IB -> TMT Corporate Development -> New Ventures
  • 1
Jan 24, 2012 - 10:28am

What's funny to me is this dude thinks he has the chance to have a "normal" life - if his stories are half true, he is going to be 1 miserable mother f*cker that will always be 1 midget sighting away from a "relapse" to his old ways.

Best of luck to Tucker, but my intuition tells me we will see him again.

"Jesus, he's like a gremlin; comes with instructions and shit"
  • 1
Jan 24, 2012 - 10:35am

Wow, cool story, I hope it works out.

Get busy living
Jan 24, 2012 - 10:36am

I'm sorry but am I the only one who thinks Tucker Max was the biggest douche bag on the internet?

People always say he's a great writer, but his dialogue is terrible (it's amazing how many times he gives himself some "witty" one-liners) and he relies on the same devices over and over again (scatalogical humor probably his favorite).

His movie was a hate crime against people who like movies and he was claiming it would beat Wedding Crashers at the box office.

The acclamation given to this guy so far is really only indicative of the aspirational finance douche.

Jan 24, 2012 - 10:49am

One of my favorite Tucker Max stories is not about him but his dad who, in a well-publicized incident, signed an agreement promising his wife $X million specifically if he cheated on her and, guess what, he ended up cheating on her. Would I be surprised if this guy cheats at some point? No, but I do remember hearing even a couple years ago that he just doesn't go out much anymore and isn't anything like he was in his early 20s.

Jan 24, 2012 - 10:55am

Tucker Max is going to be miserable not because he is married, but because he is emotionally stunted and fucked up. This is more of a story about a dude who bangs women and treats them like shit because he had a fucked up childhood than some king man slut ruling the world.

You can have fun and be single without being a sociopath.

  • 1
Jan 24, 2012 - 10:58am

Ari_Gold -- thats the point tho, you have to be a sick fuck to get turned on by a midget (no offense to anyone) but it's all about the story for that one

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk
Jan 24, 2012 - 10:58am

We're talkin real midget ANT, not a half breed

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk
Jan 24, 2012 - 11:02am

Man, REAL midget? Ugg. Like I would be shocked, but I would also question this dudes taste in women.

See, he is fucked in the head. That is some Caligula shit right there.

Jan 24, 2012 - 11:15am

you should go to Jared

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk
Jan 24, 2012 - 11:31am

Personally, I think a bro king is someone who lives their life with confidence. Tucker Max's stories reek of insecurity or a dude trying to fill a void. I mean there really is no reason to demean these women the way that he does. This type of misogyny tells me he has mother issues.

Dude is going to need serious, SERIOUS, psychological help before he can get married. I smell a divorce in his future.

  • 1
Jan 24, 2012 - 11:40am

^ I see the origins of this dude in the same light but will try to be more optimistic, people DO change.

Babyj18777:
Tucker Max might be the biggest douche bag on the planet. This guy needs a savage beating and a psychiatrist.

FWIW, I'm the kind of guy that Tucker
* stole girlfriends from
* beat up
* humiliated
* screwed over at work
* MADE MONEY off of writing about it
* etc...
...and I should be wishing him a horrifying, slow death on behalf of all the degenerates that turned my life into a living hell. But I won't. Instead, I've learned a few things from his type, and I take pleasure in noting that he needs a fucking shrink to accomplish what BILLIONS of people do all the time. And I sincerely wish him well.

It's not productive to trash each other here. Boys will be boys, and the goal is to do better, yes?

Get busy living
  • 2
Jan 24, 2012 - 11:40am

I dont know if its so much demeaning on his end, as much as it is on the girls...they know the stories, they know his bullshit, and they continued to feed into it..i mean in one of em some chick gave him a blumpkin...any girl that would subject themselves to that is out of their minds

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk
Jan 24, 2012 - 11:55am

As much as I agree w/ ANT, he was really entertaining to follow. He had some really good stories, true or not, they were funny to read.

I hope he can keep it together and end up married if thats what he wants. Seems like it would be beyond difficult for him w/ or w/o therapy.

Jan 24, 2012 - 11:58am

So long Tucker, more for you (others) and me.

Eddy, I am interested in hearing more about these dressed to the nines Paris sexcapades however. American on French? American on American? American on French on French? Something I've never even heard of?

My name is Nicky, but you can call me Dre.
Jan 24, 2012 - 12:03pm
aempirei:
So long Tucker, more for you (others) and me.

Eddy, I am interested in hearing more about these dressed to the nines Paris sexcapades however. American on French? American on American? American on French on French? Something I've never even heard of?

Maybe you can find a midget dressed to the nines??

"Jesus, he's like a gremlin; comes with instructions and shit"
  • 1
Jan 24, 2012 - 12:04pm

Patrick,

Everyone is different, so your mileage will vary. With that in mind, it's probably a good idea to be brutally honest with yourself about marriage. How many friends do you have who have been married 5 years or more and are still happy? I'm not talking about maintenance-level contentment, I'm talking still seriously jazzed to be married.

If you're able to find a couple (or even one - although I can honestly say that after 10 years I'm still really jazzed to be with my wife), then ask the ones who have kids if they're at all happy. I'd be interested to hear what you find.

Jan 24, 2012 - 12:44pm
Edmundo Braverman:
Patrick,

Everyone is different, so your mileage will vary. With that in mind, it's probably a good idea to be brutally honest with yourself about marriage. How many friends do you have who have been married 5 years or more and are still happy? I'm not talking about maintenance-level contentment, I'm talking still seriously jazzed to be married.

I agree, its really hard to say how anyone's marriage will pan out. Human beings are programmed to form strong pair bonds. After marriage, you'll prolly bone the shit outta each other for 3 maybe 5 years after when you have kids things will slow down and the physical will turn into an emotional bond. You wont be having sex erryday even if you end up with a 10.

"Show me a beautiful woman, I'll show you a man who's tired of fucking her."
- A Perfect Stranger 2007

Fuck, I think I need to write a post about this topic.

Jan 24, 2012 - 12:40pm
Edmundo Braverman:
Patrick,

Everyone is different, so your mileage will vary. With that in mind, it's probably a good idea to be brutally honest with yourself about marriage. How many friends do you have who have been married 5 years or more and are still happy? I'm not talking about maintenance-level contentment, I'm talking still seriously jazzed to be married.

If you're able to find a couple (or even one - although I can honestly say that after 10 years I'm still really jazzed to be with my wife), then ask the ones who have kids if they're at all happy. I'd be interested to hear what you find.

Well out of my 5-6 closest friend, 4 are married and 3 have multiple kids...and most of them got married ~3-5 years ago. Not sure I can straight up ask them - "hey, are you really happy being married???" well, i guess i could, but they may think I'm trying to rub it in their faces that I am not married. See, we were closer 5+ years ago when we were all single (duh), so I'm not sure I could just flat out ask...except for my closest friend growing up. His wife popped out 2 kids in 12 months (whoops on #2 so soon)...he will openly say he has no life, but he has a 6 month old and a 1.5 year old to deal with....of course he has no life outside of family. Plus, isn't there the issue that even if they are not TRULY happy, they are still comfortable / content? I think for some people, that is what they look for. I won't be happy just with that (need SOME excitement - but it doesnt need to come in the form of chasing women anymore)....

Jan 24, 2012 - 12:49pm
Achiral:
I don't give a fuck about the guy beyond his, highly exaggerated, stories.

Me neither until this post. Some of his stuff was fucking funny. Most of it was just kinda strange "So, let me get this traight, you crapped on a chick? You need help man"
Get busy living
Jan 24, 2012 - 12:51pm

Don't understand marriages. Human beings aren't genetically wired to spend time with just one person for the rest of their life. It like friends, you change friends every few years or so. You ditch the boring ones and continuously find the one that are fun and fit your personality. There is no such thing as "one person" in this world for everyone. There are about 2.5+ billion women that are of age, straight, and mentally stable enough to consent emotionally to a relationship.. Thats a lot of women and variety is the spice of life my friends. Human beings are animals, we were not meant to wear clothes, watch television, drive cars, or play video games. These are all things we have created to provide entertainment, and marriage and the idea of life partners has been planted in our heads since we were born so we never question such a failed institution. We are nomads, wanderers of the Earth in search of booty and sustenance. Marriage is just another method of brainwashing and social oppression.

Jan 24, 2012 - 1:38pm
Revolution:
Don't understand marriages. Human beings aren't genetically wired to spend time with just one person for the rest of their life. It like friends, you change friends every few years or so. You ditch the boring ones and continuously find the one that are fun and fit your personality. There is no such thing as "one person" in this world for everyone. There are about 2.5+ billion women that are of age, straight, and mentally stable enough to consent emotionally to a relationship.. Thats a lot of women and variety is the spice of life my friends. Human beings are animals, we were not meant to wear clothes, watch television, drive cars, or play video games. These are all things we have created to provide entertainment, and marriage and the idea of life partners has been planted in our heads since we were born so we never question such a failed institution. We are nomads, wanderers of the Earth in search of booty and sustenance. Marriage is just another method of brainwashing and social oppression.

+1 for someone who gets it.

Marriage is a social construct. The evidence is in and homo sapiens are not designed to be serial monogamists for life. The divorce rate is >50%, and >50% of partners cheat on their spouses, both men and women. Society tries to make it sound like it's all men, but any attractive man knows that lots of married women will shit on their husbands in a second if they think they can trade up or have a little fun on the side. The number of married women that want to cheat is STAGGERING. I literally get approached an average of about once a month by married women who aggressively hit on me, often directly asking for sex. And I don't go out much or approach them when I do -- they initiate.

If you think about it, the only people who really win in the marriage relationship is beta males who otherwise would not have a chance to reproduce. In a less structured society, a few men would control all of the women, and the rest of the men would get none. That's the way it's been throughout most of history. Do you think we suddenly became enlightened in the last few hundred years? It's in the DNA, society can't change the way we are, and definitely not within a few generations.

It's fine to want to have kids (which is really about the only objective purpose in life if you don't believe in God), but there's no need to put a ring on it. The play is to find an attractive immigrant woman who is nurturing / tolerant / fucking thrilled to be in the United States with a man of means, have her run the house and raise the kids, but not under an official treaty, so that you are free to pursue other options. It's a good deal for her because she gets to live a life style beyond what she could ever have dreamed possible, and it's a good deal for the man because he gets to remain true to his real nature.

The biggest mistakes in life happen when you try to be something contrary to your nature. Think about it.

And side note on that -- how many times have you ever heard a woman in your entire life say, "A happy husband makes a happy home?" Never. Not even once. But how often have you heard a husband dejectedly say, "A happy wife is a happy life"? A million. Something is very wrong with the way people are living their lives.

Jan 25, 2012 - 1:55am
Ravenous:
Revolution:
Don't understand marriages. Human beings aren't genetically wired to spend time with just one person for the rest of their life. It like friends, you change friends every few years or so. You ditch the boring ones and continuously find the one that are fun and fit your personality. There is no such thing as "one person" in this world for everyone. There are about 2.5+ billion women that are of age, straight, and mentally stable enough to consent emotionally to a relationship.. Thats a lot of women and variety is the spice of life my friends. Human beings are animals, we were not meant to wear clothes, watch television, drive cars, or play video games. These are all things we have created to provide entertainment, and marriage and the idea of life partners has been planted in our heads since we were born so we never question such a failed institution. We are nomads, wanderers of the Earth in search of booty and sustenance. Marriage is just another method of brainwashing and social oppression.

+1 for someone who gets it.

Marriage is a social construct. The evidence is in and homo sapiens are not designed to be serial monogamists for life. The divorce rate is >50%, and >50% of partners cheat on their spouses, both men and women. Society tries to make it sound like it's all men, but any attractive man knows that lots of married women will shit on their husbands in a second if they think they can trade up or have a little fun on the side. The number of married women that want to cheat is STAGGERING. I literally get approached an average of about once a month by married women who aggressively hit on me, often directly asking for sex. And I don't go out much or approach them when I do -- they initiate.

If you think about it, the only people who really win in the marriage relationship is beta males who otherwise would not have a chance to reproduce. In a less structured society, a few men would control all of the women, and the rest of the men would get none. That's the way it's been throughout most of history. Do you think we suddenly became enlightened in the last few hundred years? It's in the DNA, society can't change the way we are, and definitely not within a few generations.

It's fine to want to have kids (which is really about the only objective purpose in life if you don't believe in God), but there's no need to put a ring on it. The play is to find an attractive immigrant woman who is nurturing / tolerant / fucking thrilled to be in the United States with a man of means, have her run the house and raise the kids, but not under an official treaty, so that you are free to pursue other options. It's a good deal for her because she gets to live a life style beyond what she could ever have dreamed possible, and it's a good deal for the man because he gets to remain true to his real nature.

The biggest mistakes in life happen when you try to be something contrary to your nature. Think about it.

And side note on that -- how many times have you ever heard a woman in your entire life say, "A happy husband makes a happy home?" Never. Not even once. But how often have you heard a husband dejectedly say, "A happy wife is a happy life"? A million. Something is very wrong with the way people are living their lives.

This is money.

+1 for the immigrant plan. I've noticed this as well, and I'm not talking about passport chasers or gold-diggers but legitimately grateful and interesting women that haven't been brainwashed by American society into wearing the pants. Yet another reason why I wholeheartedly recommend studying abroad during college.

As an aside, is it worth it for a guy in his early 20's to be contemplating this stuff... or should I just wait until the time comes to ask these questions? Do I even have the requisite life experience at this point in life to even know whether a married life is something I really want?

Jan 25, 2012 - 8:01am
Ravenous:
The play is to find an attractive immigrant woman who is nurturing / tolerant / fucking thrilled to be in the United States with a man of means, have her run the house and raise the kids, but not under an official treaty, so that you are free to pursue other options. It's a good deal for her because she gets to live a life style beyond what she could ever have dreamed possible, and it's a good deal for the man because he gets to remain true to his real nature.

If I had a dime for every time I have read this idiocy.

You have no idea how limited these hot-but-uneducated women from the 3rd world are. I mean they are unbelievably ignorant and in a lot of cases actually dumb. If you were actually able to pull this off, you would be MISERABLE having this woman run your house. Nothing would work at home, you'd have nothing to talk about; you'd get bored of fucking her and start dreaming about deporting/divorcing her, only you'd have kids and wouldn't be willing to pull the trigger on getting rid of their mom.

As somebody who has actually lived in the 3rd world for the last 10 years, the only 3rd world woman I would ever put a ring on is somebody who at least has a college degree, and these college girls are not so hungry to get to the US as you might think (in lots of 3rd world countries, a decent degree is a ticket to a better life in that country than it is in the US - bigger house, servants, free cash leftover to save/invest/travel). And these chicks are not going to let you fuck around in an open relationship.

So good luck with your Russian bride or whatever, but for god's sake don't wife the bitch.

Jan 24, 2012 - 12:53pm

Patrick,

I've often said that the key to a happy marriage is low expectations. If you're expecting to be happily married, prudence would dictate that you ratchet that down a bit and expect to just not be miserable all the time - then there's a little room to be pleasantly surprised. I think women have a harder time with this than men do. When I met my wife, I set the bar for her expectations of me ridiculously low and I still manage to disappoint her from time to time, but I think she's mostly happy.

One other thing that you really need to think long and hard about is the fact that if you are an awesome husband and you do everything right in the marriage and you cherish your wife the way you should - you will never again be alone with another naked woman for the rest of your life (assuming your wife doesn't die on you, which is statistically less likely than the other way around). Too many guys choose to ignore this undeniable aspect of marriage, and it later costs them either a significant portion of their happiness or half their assets.

Seriously. The last girl you'll ever see naked. Think about it.

Jan 24, 2012 - 1:28pm

Eddie, gotta ask, does your wife know about this site. If so I would suggest you put a block on all your home computers lol.

Go get married, but be prudent about it. Sit down with a lawyer, get a prenup, change wills, discuss kids, etc. Marriage is a legal contract, nothing else. Also realize that blinding love will fade into a friendship and bond through life events.

  • 1
Jan 24, 2012 - 1:45pm

I believe marriage can work and can be very healthy for people if done the right way.

So many people get married young or marry the first girl that let them feel under their bra, and then are miserable because they feel like they missed out on life.

Most of us are young and still in our 20's so getting married seems like a terrible idea. We all have young single friends who are always willing to go out and have a good time. This definitely changes as you get older. At 40 you cant just go out and find bros to party with 5 nights a week. Your friends will be married and have kids.

Dont marry for looks or money. Marry someone who has the same views as you on children and who you genuinely like spending all of your time with, and have at least some shared hobbies.

All this coming from a single younger guy so take it with a grain of salt, but that's my opinion on marriage.

Jan 24, 2012 - 2:10pm

Married men live longer and have lower incidence of depression. New women are fun, but so are drugs and excessive drinking, neither of which are healthy or helpful. Just saying that shit always gets old, no matter what.

Jan 24, 2012 - 2:19pm
ANT:
Married men live longer and have lower incidence of depression. New women are fun, but so are drugs and excessive drinking, neither of which are healthy or helpful. Just saying that shit always gets old, no matter what.

One could argue that either would ruin your life and potentially take all of your $$, just sayin'

"Jesus, he's like a gremlin; comes with instructions and shit"
  • 1
Jan 24, 2012 - 2:11pm

A few comments on the whole Tucker Max thing and marriage and family:

  • Going out and getting crazy / hooking up with randoms is definitely a blast - for awhile. I think the reasons its attractiveness begins to fade are (i) staying out super late, getting drunk, eating shit destroys your body very quickly and can therefore only be kept up for awhile and (ii) it's an incredible time sink. It kills your night and most of your next day. Essentially all your free time gets sucked up in one activity and you can't do anything else. If you ever want to pursue any hobbies that are physically or mentally demanding, the partying has to be toned down at some point.

  • One thing that is often forgotten, is the concept of marriage as a means to self-actualization is a relatively new phenomenon. In the not too distant past, marriage was mainly a vehicle to survive and reproduce. That's it. If you actually loved each other that was icing on the cake. Not saying that was the right way to do it, but it's an interesting data point regarding expectations of marriage.

  • Speaking of expectations, I think one reason marriage is such a drain on men today is because of women's evolving expections as to what exactly an ideal marriage should be. In the past, men weren't expected to constantly communicate, participate in numerous "couples activities", and fulfill their wives every need. In many cases they are now expected to. This does not come naturally for most men and often generates the "lower limbs of trees look friendly" feelings.

  • In a similar vein, raising children is also so much more of a pain in the ass today because of changing social dynamics. In the past, you worked on a farm or worked a trade or craft. Your place of work was often at home or very near it, so the whole concept of a separate "workplace" didn't exist on the scale it does today. What does this have to do with kids? One, your kids knew what you were doing all day so you weren't some mystery man and could actually build a solid relationship with your kids, and two (and much more importantly), the relationship with your kids was that of master / apprentice. You taught your craft to your kids, they provided some economic value, and you were able to teach them some life lessons and bond in the process. Now you are carted off to the office / factory, only to come home in an irritable mood after being bitched around all day. This is the "you" your kids get to know - no master / apprentice (they have no idea what the hell you are doing all day). And not only are your kids not providing economic value, between private school tuition, piano lessons, and braces, they are costing a fortune which in turn means you need to stay chained to your desk at work to afford it all. It's just more difficult to make it pencil in today's world.

  • 2
Jan 24, 2012 - 2:59pm
labanker:
In a similar vein, raising children is also so much more of a pain in the ass today because of changing social dynamics. In the past, you worked on a farm or worked a trade or craft. Your place of work was often at home or very near it, so the whole concept of a separate "workplace" didn't exist on the scale it does today. What does this have to do with kids? One, your kids knew what you were doing all day so you weren't some mystery man and could actually build a solid relationship with your kids, and two (and much more importantly), the relationship with your kids was that of master / apprentice. You taught your craft to your kids, they provided some economic value, and you were able to teach them some life lessons and bond in the process. Now you are carted off to the office / factory, only to come home in an irritable mood after being bitched around all day. This is the "you" your kids get to know - no master / apprentice (they have no idea what the hell you are doing all day). And not only are your kids not providing economic value, between private school tuition, piano lessons, and braces, they are costing a fortune which in turn means you need to stay chained to your desk at work to afford it all. It's just more difficult to make it pencil in today's world.

Really good point. It's even worse for parents in finance. This is probably worth its own post.
Get busy living
  • 3
Jan 24, 2012 - 2:18pm

^This

Sorry guys but I dont agree marriage being a contract and marrying immigrant women and shit. Love is an important aspect of life, and when you share that bond with someone it really makes life worthwhile. People get divorced because they dont marry for the right reasons. Simple.

In order to succeed in life and dating:

1. Don't be fucking needy: This is the most unattractive quality.
2. Meet each other halfway: Both parties should be invested in each other emotionally to the same degree. You have to meet the other person halfway, if you dont, one party will put the other on the pedestal and get manipulated.
3. Relationships should be natural: That is why I hate the PUA shit and attraction guides. You can attract any woman you want and fuck her but you wont be happy for long.
4. Learn to live in uncertainty: Don't control shit. People should understand that they cannot control human beings. Humans are not fucking objects.
5. Be fearless: This is the hardest part. But in order to succeed in relationships and life you have to absolutely fearless. Yes, sometime the girl you like ditches you, sometimes things dont work out however you analyze it. Shit happens. Move on. I know its hard. But move the fuck on....depression is a killer.

Jan 24, 2012 - 2:16pm

Yeah and kids weren't glorified pets like they are today. You shit them out in an effort to have free labor and you worked those little monsters once they got old enough. Now you have bratty kids that cost a fortune, for which you are forced to slave away for.

  • 1
Jan 24, 2012 - 2:19pm
ANT:
Yeah and kids weren't glorified pets like they are today. You shit them out in an effort to have free labor and you worked those little monsters once they got old enough. Now you have bratty kids that cost a fortune, for which you are forced to slave away for.

how many baby momma's do you have ?

Jan 25, 2012 - 10:33am

We have some straight up Aritstotles and Socrates' on this site. Good posts all around guys. Makes me even more convinced I probably won't ever marry (although may have kids).

My name is Nicky, but you can call me Dre.
Jan 25, 2012 - 12:32pm
labanker:
Re: the immigrant 3rd world wife route, that's not going to work in this country. Your wife will likely be an integral part of your social life and a 3rd world wife will make for a lot of awkward occasions. Plus, not only do most people see guys with mail-order / immigrant wives as non-alpha to put it in your parlance, they generally view these guys as desparate losers.

So you're saying in order to be alpha you've got to marry an American woman? If I choose to get married, I'll take my chances on a non-materialistic non-demanding non-the-world-is-her-oister foreigner and keep 100% of my assets.

Contary to popular belief, there is a sub-set of hundreds of millions of people that exist between America and the 3rd-world.

My name is Nicky, but you can call me Dre.
  • 2
Jan 25, 2012 - 12:51pm

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/divorce.htm

Here is the source for that 50% bullshit stat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce#United_States

"Success in marriage has been associated with higher education and higher age. 81% of college graduates, over 26 years of age, who wed in the 1980s, were still married 20 years later. 65% of college graduates under 26 who married in the 1980s, were still married 20 years later. 49% of high school graduates under 26 years old who married in the 1980s, were still married 20 years later.[28] Population studies have found that in 2004 and 2008, liberal-voting states have lower rates of divorce than conservative-voting states, possibly because people in liberal states tend to wait longer before getting married.[29] In 2009, 2.9% of adults 35–39 without a college degree were divorced, compared with 1.6% with a college education.[30]"

The fact is divorce happens. It happens because there is less social stigma, because people have kids later, because there are more options, because women work and value their career, etc. I don't think marriage is flipping a coin though. The odds of divorce change depending on your educational level, age of marriage, income and wealth, etc.

If you want to get married, do so, but sit down with a lawyer and get a cold dose of reality. When you get married you need to think about your will, your assets, power of attorney, medical powers, etc. Marriage is not about love, which will fade. It is about making a conscious decision to legally join yourself with another person.

  • 3
Jan 25, 2012 - 3:06pm
HFFBALLfan123:
Fuck having kids, I'm just gonna have a nephew/niece. Having kids is like believing in God to me, so many people just do it because they are afraid to be different. I like having someone around, i'm a social person but i also like fucking a lot of different girls.... i want my cake and am gonna eat the fuck out of it too...

I would be doing a disservice to the human race if I didn't pass on my exceptional genes to future generations.

"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."
  • 1
Jan 25, 2012 - 3:08pm
duffmt6:
HFFBALLfan123:
Fuck having kids, I'm just gonna have a nephew/niece. Having kids is like believing in God to me, so many people just do it because they are afraid to be different. I like having someone around, i'm a social person but i also like fucking a lot of different girls.... i want my cake and am gonna eat the fuck out of it too...

I would be doing a disservice to the human race if I didn't pass on my exceptional genes to future generations.

haha touche

Jan 29, 2012 - 7:17pm
duffmt6:
HFFBALLfan123:
Fuck having kids, I'm just gonna have a nephew/niece. Having kids is like believing in God to me, so many people just do it because they are afraid to be different. I like having someone around, i'm a social person but i also like fucking a lot of different girls.... i want my cake and am gonna eat the fuck out of it too...

I would be doing a disservice to the human race if I didn't pass on my exceptional genes to future generations.


Haha!
Jan 25, 2012 - 3:43pm

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that having a mail-order bride would be looked down upon in a finance career. Whether it results in something that actually affects you is one thing but having some bitch who isn't capable of carrying on a conversation in English is not going to work very well at social events. Not saying to pimp wifey out or anything but having a solid wife who can carry her own at parties or whatever can be beneficial to your career.

Jan 25, 2012 - 5:41pm

Yah I really don't get the WSO viewpoint that if you are not an American woman you must be a mail-order bride. Plenty of (hotter) fish in the sea out there to be had.

My name is Nicky, but you can call me Dre.
Jan 26, 2012 - 11:07am
Kools:
Tucker Max is a fucking gangster. If we can learn anything from him, it's this: don't become a corporate monkey. Tucker went to Duke law school and gave the middle finger to climbing the law ladder. Live your life on your terms.

Sounds like a huge waste of money to me. He could have done what he did without a law degree, I'm pretty sure.

"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."
  • 1
Jan 26, 2012 - 6:59am

I plan on being the cool uncle

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk
Jan 26, 2012 - 3:49pm

Like a lot of young and dumb men, I had hero worship for TM. At least up until I met the guy at a San Diego lounge while he was promoting one of his books. There was something incongruent about his character - TM in real life did not seem to be the same TM in his stories. It made me suspect that either his stories were bullshit or his dickhead attitude was stemming more from emotional issues than his actual character.

Good for him for getting therapy, I hope he finds what really makes him happy. Maybe his experiences could be the basis of some new stories:

Tucker goes to therapy, hillarity does not ensue
Tucker gets married and has children, ends poorly
Tucker attempts suicide, hillarity ensues
Book Title: I hope they serve beer in therapy

Man made money, money never made the man
  • 2
Jan 27, 2012 - 9:04am

Tucker Max's stories have never failed to make me laugh, and I'm sad to see him go. But really, I think his "I have mommy issues" is a lame excuse for his behavior. Playing the blame game is not the way to go. Good luck to him, and I hope he sorts himself out.

But no matter what he ends up doing after this, I'm sure he will remember that he Tucker Max, and therefore can accomplish anything.

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com
  • 1
Jan 29, 2012 - 2:14am
Edmundo Braverman:
And worst of all - he hopes to get married and have kids someday.

I think he needs to be careful what he wishes for. I can say from personal experience that there's no way to go from living like a wild man to being a husband and father without a lot of deceleration trauma. And once you've got kids, there's no going back. Trust me. Every Friday night when I take my dogs for their last walk before bed and I see everyone in Paris dressed to the nines and going out to have sex with strangers while I go home to bed because I have to get up early and take my kids to basketball in the morning...well...some of those lower tree limbs start looking pretty inviting. Just sayin'.

One thing that strikes me as incredible is how something so fundamental to the survival of the human race could suck so much ass. I have yet to have someone give me an answer to the "why have kids" question beyond some hallmark card tripe.

  • 3
Best Response
Oct 5, 2013 - 12:15pm

labanker:

Edmundo Braverman:

And worst of all - he hopes to get married and have kids someday.

I think he needs to be careful what he wishes for. I can say from personal experience that there's no way to go from living like a wild man to being a husband and father without a lot of deceleration trauma. And once you've got kids, there's no going back. Trust me. Every Friday night when I take my dogs for their last walk before bed and I see everyone in Paris dressed to the nines and going out to have sex with strangers while I go home to bed because I have to get up early and take my kids to basketball in the morning...well...some of those lower tree limbs start looking pretty inviting. Just sayin'.

One thing that strikes me as incredible is how something so fundamental to the survival of the human race could suck so much ass. I have yet to have someone give me an answer to the "why have kids" question beyond some hallmark card tripe.

Marriage and raising children aren't fundamental to the survival of the human race. Busting a nut is.

Jan 29, 2012 - 5:07am

People can't be honest about how much ass it sucks without being hurtful to people they love. No one will ever tell you the truth about it.

On a side note: who really gives a shit about the survival of the human race? I mean, seriously. Once you're gone, why do you give a shit? I guess I've just never been much of a fan.

Jan 29, 2012 - 11:01am

i do not know who he is. i have never heard of him. but if he started the blog trend then more power to him. maybe i should read something of his sometime

"Everything comes to those who hustle while they wait." -Thomas Edison
Oct 5, 2013 - 11:05am

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