UBS v. DB
Both are NYC Investment Banking. Leaning heavily towards UBS because of fit and because of DB's recent layoffs but want to hear more. Commentary on good groups at both also appreciated
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From a group wide strategy point of view, UBS are at least 2 years ahead of Deutsche in my opinion. Deutsche's recent press conference at the back end of October mirrored Ermotti's when he first came in at UBS back in 2012. But, UBS have stripped out their market making, trading businesses, etc to focus on advisory. Can't speak for NYC on the IB side, but I know they are growing their West Coast operations, specifically tech (obvs). They pinched four of Jefferies' senior bankers last month.
The culture at UBS is always pretty good whichever area I've been in. Haven't heard the same about Deutsche...but then I'm going to be biased. Go well.
Regarding layoffs you have nothing to worry about at DB if in IBD. On the contrary, IBD is an expension area as also laid out in the recent strategy announcement.
First, congrats on landing both offers. You'll be in great shape either way. To add my 2 cents, UBS as a firm is a few years ahead of DB since they have completed their overhaul. All of the European BB's will be following UBS's path, with UBS being the first to make the move. UBS IBD is consistently growing as shown by many recent hirings across many groups, and has been on some very notable M&A deals this year (MolsonCoors, Walgreens, Anthem). Best groups (no particular order) are M&A, Lev Fin, Industrials, Healthcare, and TMT.
Thanks for the clarity. Can anyone comment on strong groups at DB? I know M&A LevFin REGLL and Industrials but was curious if anyone could speak to that.
M&A, LevFin, Sponsors, Industrials, REGLL are the strongest groups at the bank. I would strongly recommend Sponsors. Best balance of culture/lifestyle and dealflow at the bank.
Sales DB vs UBS (Originally Posted: 06/11/2010)
Hi
Got two internship offers one is with UBS Equity&Commodity Derivative Sales and one is with DB Derivatives Sales cross-assets.
What do you think? Liked both teams.
Cheers
With the current state that UBS is in right now, I would take DB simply because of the stability in the near future.
Where is this based?
Personally I'd take the cross-assets role at DB - a lot of banks seem to be expanding into this business model, plus you'll be gaining wider exposure and skills.
It's based in Continental Europe.
DB more stable. More products. Stronger balance sheet.
UBS SA vs. DB SA (Originally Posted: 02/21/2011)
Just received offers from UBS and DB for a summer analyst position. Anyone have personal experience with these programs / advice on which way to go here?
if usa pick DB if europe it's a toss up if asia pick UBS
^^ this. I personally hate the UBS bashing in WSO. UBS is top class in Asia.
This is probably for US / Europe given the timeline but same as the guy above.
Go with UBS for the people and culture because overall its better than DB. UBS is a great bank with great deal flow after speaking to many people from both banks.
If this is for IB in NY, I completely agree for the above reasons, after talking to many people from both firms UBS is much better culture and people wise.
They're both IB in NY. Thanks for the input.
I would say UBS as well. You will have more global opportunities and the people there seem to be much nicer and friendlier.
UBS. They are underrated and have plus culture, and as other people have touched on, a more global presence.
GS>MS>JPM>BAML=UBS>Citi>DB>Barcap>Nomura
This is pure brilliance
UBS all the way - dealflow, culture. plus they invested last year in the recovery (by hiring), so most likely will rise in the ranking as well
I did my SA stint at UBS and the place is top. I met a crap load of people there and I can honestly say only one guy I met I disliked.
what's going on in here? applaud the concentrated large scale trolling attack
DB or UBS (Originally Posted: 02/04/2013)
Received offers from both firms in NYC. I personally love UBS more than DB, but obviously DB will be a much safer choice.
On what occasions (which groups) then should I choose UBS over DB?
If you land UBS FSLF or M&A, it might be worth choosing over DB. When will you find out your group placements for both DB and UBS?
If you take UBS, you'll spend your summer (and potentially two years of FT) freaking out about layoffs. For your personal sanity, take DB. DCM at DB>unemployed, former UBS M&Aer
^true, but if OP lands a top group at UBS, she can potentially leverage it for a FT IBD gig at a top-tier IBank in the fall.
Yeah, but FT recruiting really, really sucks, and it's not something to count on. Friend of a friend was at GS, didn't get a return, ended up at HLHZ FAS (not even banking). IMO, the primary focus as an SA should be getting an offer, and UBS might not offer any. I had UBS interviewers, in my first rounds, tell me straight up I shouldn't intern there if I had any other offers from other banks. Not exactly the most encouraging environment.
I think that had to be just bad luck/situation for your friend. I know many ppl tht did MM/no-name boutique internships over the summer and got BB/top MM/elite boutique for full time. I'm one of them so its hard, but not that hard if you really network a lot.
FT recruiting is essentially non-existent now... go for the safe and BETTER choice. Go with DB
Since when has any BB ever laid off an intern? That really doesn't happen. UBS struggles are overblown on this forum, especially since the problem is on the trading side, not IBD. As for which to choose... really depends on the group.
You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. Stop giving advice.
I would agree and disagree. UBS is a shit-show right now and not a place you should want to be if you are in the job search- at the same time, the struggles are overblown on here- they are still giving out offers, they are still a decent bank, and they have a history of over-hiring and then big layoffs- once the storm settles they will be back to being a large, mediocre firm.
While I agree that the situation for UBS is likely very cyclical, I think you're missing the impact that a lack of, or deterioration in FICC capabilities, has on IB relationships. Clients seeking M&A/DCM/ECM rely, at the same time, on the bank for hedging and liquidity in their securities. When an investment bank is not able to provide those services on the trading side of the business, they consequently loose some relationship and influence on the corporate finance side. The client will transition to another full-service investment bank that can provide advisory and superior FICC product management/risk solutions. This is why there is a huge downside to UBS - the damage that a weak trading platform has on your experience in corp fin (M&A, coverage, etc...).
Congrats on the opportunity, but go with DB and don't look back.
How is this even a question? UBS have already laid off over half of their analysts in EVERY group, M&A is pretty much completely gone in terms of analysts; the situation is not overblown, it's real. Any group at DB is better than UBS
While UBS is still a "solid" bank overall (top 15 in league tables) at the junior levels it's not where you want to be. I personally know two first year analysts laid off RIGHT BEFORE BONUSES. The struggles are NOT overblown
I had the same decision to make a couple of years ago. Choose DB -- no question.
DB all day, hands down
UBS LA > All
UBS LA shut down its office..
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-27/ubs-shuts-l-a-investment-banki…
Definitely DB. Don't underestimate the value of a slightly better name on your resume. More importantly, the problems at UBS are definitely not overblown. Analysts are being laid off across IB - that's not somewhere where you want to work, and certainly not somewhere where morale will be high.
would you go with banks like Piper, HW, SunTrust, Jefferies, RBC, Baird, and Blair....over UBS?
For an internship? No, but I would be sure to move to another bank FT. UBS is laying off swaths of 1st and 2nd year analysts right now. That's not somewhere you want to be.
London 2018 SA Offers - DB vs UBS (Originally Posted: 10/25/2017)
Got offers for IBD at UBS and Deutsche Bank in their London office. Team preference is CEEMEA M&A during the internship and then specialize in FIG during the analyst program. So which one would you go for?
On a separate note, how would you rank European banks (UBS, CS, DB, Barclays)?
Thanks Monkeys!
Hi whynotzoidberg, check out these links:
More suggestions...
Hope that helps.
Hey man might be a bit late but definitely UBS for your case. For european banks i would say barclays is reviving and probs the best European bank now especially in DCM and LevFin. Hence Barc > CS > UBS > DB in europe, just my two cents
Thanks man, ended up signing UBS. Do you have any info on how do European banks stack up in their FIG franchise?
DB versus UBS for equity trading (Originally Posted: 07/13/2011)
Hi, I've got offers from DB and UBS for equity trading (I don't want to get too specific, otherwise will out myself) in HK-- I am Associate level. Pay is basically the same.
Been away from the states for a while now, but what's the perception/prestige of these two firms in NYC/London these days?
You're Associate-level and obviously more qualified than I am to make a valid analysis (I'm UG), but I think DB has a better outlook from current and recent events. UBS has seen a wave of negative press the past few years, ranging from scandal to government probes to plain stupidity (from the firm and from journalists).
Gotta disclose: I'm aiming for DB in HK when I graduate next year. Came to China this year for a finance internship so I'm deadly serious, and probably biased towards DB.
Good luck either way.
Ahh yes, advice from the college kids who have zero years of experience in the industry
UBS has a great global presence in Equities. DB has a much smaller presence in equities. Easy decision IMO. Or you could trust the college sophomores for what do i know.
UBS equities isn't doing real great here in the states, but I thought they were real strong in Asia.
I would go for DB.
I have heard from people in the industry that UBS are quite incompetent. DB has a solid reputation.
x
UBS is a lead bookrunner on so many Asia ex-Japan IPOs that I would find it shocking if UBS equities in HK would be equivalent to "equities in Dallas"
Do any of you guys here the crap coming out of your mouth? Like clearly none of you have a clue what you are talking about its ridiculous. GS/CS/UBS/MS top 4 in equities. MS equity revenues are declining. JPM's head of US equities just went to citi.
Rule of thumb... if you dont know what your talking about just say nothing please.
You are the one who does not know what he is talking about, and who should say nothing.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a09c47c2-ae0f-11e0-a2ab-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1S1mRqTPY
I heard UBS sucks
confirm UBS sucks
At this point, if you're still at UBS, it's b/c you couldn't go anywhere else.
Hahaha an MD at UBS told me (in an interview, no less) that the equities group is moving to NYC because they are not doing all that well, and they are hoping that being closer to clients helps.....
Wow UBS is going layoff, 5000 people, http://dealbreaker.com/2011/07/layoffs-watch-11-ubs-credit-suisse/
TOLD YOU UBS SUCKS
go to jef, they're still hiring
Trade4size is right, these freshman kids don't know what they're talking about
UBS is clearly the better bank (better in equities and in Asia)
Still, I recommend you going with the desk that you fit with better. Solid offers. Congrats.
What i find hillarious is that someone who works at UBS actually logged in here and threw monkey shit at everyone for bashing UBS.
You should have put that effort into your resume (oh wait, you're screwed b/c your resume says UBS). My mistake.
No its me throwing monkey shit at you all because you have no idea what you are talking about.
I DO NOT WORK AT UBS. You cannot compare their equities biz to their Ibanking biz.
This whole thread only has one user who actually works on a trading floor, and yet he is being ignored by all the college kids who think they know shit cuz they read dealbreaker every once in a while.
nonsense, why do you supposedly knowledgeable people have to be so arrogant ? I think it is quite immature of you guys to insult anyone who thinks UBS is shit.
I said that UBS is shit because I have heard it myself from traders in GS/MS. They are not doing well at all now... Furthermore, they are planning massive layoffs.
If you think that UBS is better, then at least give some arguments, instead of just saying you know better and everyone is stupid.
I've often wondered something about this site: why do all these dorks who have thousands of posts (who need to get a life outside of their parents basement) always fall back to calling everyone a college kid when something smart ass or disagreeable is said? Get a new comeback guys, seriously, maybe even get out of your mom's basement and go out one night, then maybe you'll see how to interact with human beings face to face instead of on here, just calling everyone a college kid.
To be honest, I wish I was still in school (especially b-school), what a great fucking time. I would give anything for 2 more years of grad school at this point. Props to the college kids out there. Keep on doing your thing guys.
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