UMich vs Stern

Hey fellow monkeys ,

I need your opinion on which college to choose. I'm a high school senior right now and I was admitted into UMich (Not Preadmit) and NYU Stern. I aim to pursue finance after college. Which school do you think that I should choose? For UMich, I would have to apply to Ross again during my freshman year of college and its not guaranteed, while Stern is guaranteed. The cost for Stern is much greater than the cost for UMich for 4 years, but I know that UMich has much more of a typical college experience/social scene. Honest Opinions please. Thanks!

 

I have a couple friends who are currently at Stern for undergrad. Be warn, it is extremely competitive. My friend said that once he put his homework in the bin to hand it in and someone took it after he left the room. There are a lot of opportunities especially for off cycle stuff. It is an amazing school but get ready to compete.

 

The difference between NYU and UMich's prestige is essentially zero. Person X goes to UMich Person Y goes to NYU No one is going to say, "Y is way more qualified than X, because Y went to NYU."

UMich is cheaper, and if you like football, UMich has the edge.

Summary: Prestige are equal UMich is cheaper UMich has a better football program

If I were in your shoes, which I wish I was when I was in high school, I'd choose UMich.

 

Your example makes sense if you are just talking about NYU, but Stern (on a pure recruitment basis for NYC and finance prestige) blows UMich and Ross out of the damn water and there will certainly be opportunities in NYC finance that are afforded to Stern students that Ross students couldn't even dream of

edit: nice MS btw. Additionally, OP isn't even a preadmit. Ross is incredibly hard to get into not as a preadmit. He's already into Stern. Stern > Ross, especially in this scenario

 

Actually Ross isn't that difficult to get into when you apply your sophomore year. Only difficult to get in as a pre-admit. I wouldn't say Stern blows Ross out of the water though: both are exceptionally strong programs.

Internationally though just based on perception most student around the world know what Stern is and that is because of NYU and its location. Ross isn't as well known on a global scale.

Top UG B-schools like Stern, Ross, Wharton, Haas are interchangeable. They all provide similar opportunities.

 

Take some time to visit both schools and get a feel for the experience. NYU is very very different than Michigan. I would not worry too much in terms of recruiting. At my BB, Michigan is one of the most represented schools. And while it is true that most kids from Michigan are in Ross that seems more to be because the kids in Ross are the ones that recruit for IB. Two kids in my intern class were in the Arts and Sciences college at Michigan (so not Ross) and they said recruiting was not that much more difficult.

In terms of pure IB opportunities, though, NYU will have the edge because of the proximity. But it seems that most kids from Michigan that want to do banking (and have the right grades for it) end up at top firms.

 

Academics are secondary. Going to college in NYC gives you the best career opportunities possible. This is the biggest advantage you need to weigh against campus, cost, athletics, etc. How important is the "true" college experience to you?

Stern schedules classes primarily M-Th which allows you to intern part-time with a full Friday every week. Combined with location, its a huge advantage.

 

Jesus man, really...how important is a "true" college experience? These are some of the best years of your life. Having an actual campus to be a part of, Greek Life, top sport teams, different types of parties and people to meet etc. That's the exact mentality that makes Stern a shitty experience.

And the point of no Friday classes is so you can party your ass off Thursday and not worry about thing the next day. You can also easily intern during the semester at UMich, I know people who have.

Enjoy life.

 

Fuck. You sound like the most stereotypical washed up frat star who can't comprehend someone not being interested in fratting it up and getting blacked out every weekend. I'm not trying to speak for OP, but you need to realize not everyone wants to do that and it doesn't make their opinion any less valid because they don't follow your 'Total Frat Move Alumni' regiment.

Also, people interning during the semester at Ross are certainly not doing it at the same level as Stern kids. The best financial city near Mich is Chicago and it's almost 4 hours away. No one is working part time at a job 4 hours away and being a full time student. Drop the shit. Kids at Stern literally take a 5min subway ride, if even that, and they're at their internships.

 

I have met a few people on the Street who went to Stern who regretted they didn't have a more typical college experience. I have never met anyone regretting going to Michigan. Of course my sample is biased because these are all people who are working in IB in NY (so these are all people who got the jobs they wanted), but I still think it's important to think about.

 

Stern vs. UM was a decision I also had to make a long time ago. Having been to AA quite a few times, would I have loved to live there for four years? Absolutely. I've been a Michigan fan for 20 years and since NYU doesnt have athletics, Go Blue.

If I could have the same career progression as I have had, no doubt I would go to UM. But - coming from a poor family with no connections and no idea what finance really was, living and working in NYC as an 18 year old was the absolute best opportunity. Its not something I realized until many years later.

 
Best Response
chobo:

Stern vs. UM was a decision I also had to make a long time ago. Having been to AA quite a few times, would I have loved to live there for four years? Absolutely. I've been a Michigan fan for 20 years and since NYU doesnt have athletics, Go Blue.

If I could have the same career progression as I have had, no doubt I would go to UM. But - coming from a poor family with no connections and no idea what finance really was, living and working in NYC as an 18 year old was the absolute best opportunity. Its not something I realized until many years later.

Stern vs. Ross was a decision I also made a while back (~3 years ago). For reasons similar to those above, I decided to attend Stern. The opportunities for professional development and "figuring it out" through trial and error has been critical in growing as a person. Truthfully, Michigan (or USC) would have better suited me, but I opted to attend the school that had a greater probability of providing me with a well-paying job after graduation. I didn't come to Stern wanting to work in finance or on the Street, but when you're not sure what exactly it is that you want to do it's easy to get sucked into the herd mentality of IBD or die that permeates the school.

I struggle to answer the question "do you regret going to Stern." It's definitely made me hungrier, more driven. I've learned to ruthlessly pursue opportunities that I am interested in. To never take no for an answer. It's made me comfortable working a room full of professionals 2-25 years my senior. It's made networking second nature. I've learned to fail and to get back up again. It's made me grow thicker skin. For all intents and purposes, it's made me a "better" person. I also feel extremely lucky--I say lucky because there's a lot of variables beyond your control when it comes to recruiting and interview outcomes--that I feel onto the IBD path and things worked out. I secured a summer internship in one of the most coveted IBD groups on the street and if all goes well I'll have a full-time job lined up in a few months. But Stern isn't the recruiting Mecca some people think it is...some of my peers are still recruiting for junior year summer internships. You aren't guaranteed a BB IBD job and to be competitive you had to do several semesters of part-time internships prior to junior year recruiting.

AnotherFinanceGuy:

I have met a few people on the Street who went to Stern who regretted they didn't have a more typical college experience. I have never met anyone regretting going to Michigan. Of course my sample is biased because these are all people who are working in IB in NY (so these are all people who got the jobs they wanted), but I still think it's important to think about.

Even though things have worked out from a professional standpoint, it's at the expense of a lot of things. Some of the nastiest people I have ever had the displeasure of meeting attend Stern. While everyone is not out to get an edge, there are definitely those kids who will give you the wrong answers for a problem set or downgrade their teammates for participation on group projects so on a relative basis their score is higher. I've never been one to get ahead by sabotage, but I'm more weary of other people's intentions from going here. It also makes people tie a lot of their self-worth to academic performance and recruiting outcomes. It lacks a sense of community and comradery and I say that as a member of both Greek Life and a business fraternity here. There's so much pressure to always be doing something meaningful, something that'll get you ahead...sometimes all a kid wants to do is fuck around and just day drink. I've also never been surrounded by so many depressed people prior to coming here, and this is something about NYU as a whole. People just aren't happy here. I can count very few friends across the various schools who haven't thought about transferring or applied to transfer. In fact, I often wonder where I'd be now had I attended Ross or Marshall as a first year (or if I transferred when I was admitted to both again as a Stern student).

So, does securing the dream job offset four years of just keeping on? A lot of people here seem to think it does. For me, signing an SA offer didn't feel "satisfying" or like all of this was worth it by any means. I'm grateful for all the life lessons I've learned from this place, but if I were to do it all over I'd have went to Michigan instead and worked my ass off to ensure I would be where I am today (which is doable from Ross) and I'd have had a much more pleasant collegiate experience. I've definitely built a strong resume here and I have a lot of friends, but there's a lot of things about this place that need fixing. If you know you can't stay afloat without a full-time job immediately after graduation, then there's an argument to be made for Stern. If you want to be in the city and long for "independence" (it's not all it's cracked up to be), then Stern might be the right fit. But if you're middle class and the only real reason you want to go to Stern is for recruiting...don't be dumb. Go to Michigan. Join the standard business clubs, join a fraternity / sorority. Leverage your school network, leverage that fraternity / sorority network. Start building your network early on (freshman / sophomore year) if you are dead set on going to the Street, and you'll be fine.

TL;DR: With a little legwork any opportunties available from Stern are accessible to you as a Ross student. You'll have a better experience at Michigan.

 

Alright thanks everyone for your awesome feedback! Both sides of the debate made good points. For Stern its clear that its location in NYC helps greatly with internships and recruiting. But the bad rep about Stern that I have heard before seems to continue to pop up. And yes in response to some people wondering, I follow a work hard play hard mentality so having a great social scene like Mich's is very important to me in addition to a great business program. The only apparent downside to Mich is that it is far away from any major financial cities so interning during the school year seems very difficult but that is not a deal breaker for me. So thank you all for your respective opinions and I'm glad to say that I'll be part of the University of Michigan Class of 2020. Thanks!

 

This makes me so happy! If you like work hard, play hard you're in for a great time at Michigan. You will love it! Again, don't sweat the marginal difference in recruiting opportunities. As I said, with a little networking and proactiveness on your end you will end up in a seat you are more than comfortable with.

If you consider yourself diverse (e.g. woman, LGBTQ, disability, racial minority) take advantage of diversity recruiting opportunities. These will allow you to get your foot in the door with firms in NY early. Here's a link to a comprehensive post on diversity recruiting opportunities that may be of interest, provided you are eligible: http://www.wallstreetoasis(dot)com/forums/a-one-stop-shop-for-all-thing…

Best of luck! There seems to be a good amount of Michigan vs. NYU Stern posts on here with people thinking the answer is Stern, no question, so you have to post an update in a few years on how things are going / went.

 

unless you have PE/VC experience prior to going to get your MBA, you'll never work in PE/VC.

assuming you do have PE/VC experience, neither is great to get you back into the buyside. however, Stern being in NYC gives you a chance to do more recruiting with the NYC firms so that is a big plus. but again, neither are ideal. i know of a guy who worked at decent IB then to a decent MM PE firm then Ross MBA. ended up a tier-2 IB after as an associate. probably not what he hoped for.

 

Dude I think OP was talking about undergrad. OP - I think both place very well in IBD positions but I would give Stern a slight edge due to its location. For PE/VC I don't know, although for VC I'd recommend an engineering degree at UMich.

 

Not sure what the recruiting scene for Ross is like for PE/VC/HF buyside type jobs out of undergrad. The opportunities are definitely there at Stern and I've seen some top students definitely pull strong offers. Any given year maybe ~ 10 kids place buyside at Stern though I've seen several students give up opportunities to do IBD first as well.

In terms of firms that I've seen on CareerNet, come to campus, or have heard people have went to directly after undergrad at Stern include:

Level Equity, Paulson & Co, Point72 Asset Management, Audax Group, Och-Ziff Capital Management, Oak Hill Advisors, Spectrum Equity, Hutchin Hill, Moore Capital Management, LRR Partners, Bridgewater, Insight Venture Partners, Dodge & Cox, Fidelity Investments, Wellington Management, Vista Equity, The Riverside Company, CPP Investment Board, Longacre Fund Management, Aurelius Capital Management, Dimensional Fund Advisors, Fred Alger Management, Citadel, First Mark and then a lot of one-off credit and equity HFs and MM PE / VC in NYC, Boston, SF, firms that look to take on analysts

I'm definitely missing a couple of big ones but you get the idea: the opportunities are definitely there. I'm sure Ross has similar opportunities as well. You will have to ask someone at Ross.

 

Hi,

I'm in the same situation as you a couple years back as I'm deciding between Umich ross (except I'm a pre-admit student) and NYU Stern right now. I got off the waitlist for Stern a couple days ago whereas I got into the Ross program through Early Action. Therefore, I only have a couple of days to decide if I want Stern. Can you let me know if you're happy now (with less regrets) after deciding U of M Ross?

 

Hey, I'm in a similar situation as well, except I didn't get into Ross. I'm deciding between NYU Stern (which I got in off the waitlist) and UMich LSA. I'd be studying Economics and Computer Science with a Business minor at Michigan. I know I'd much rather prefer the culture and campus of Michigan, but Stern is also very prestigious and gives me great opportunities. However, talking to a few people at Michigan, it seems like you can create opportunities without being in Ross, which I plan to do. I need to decide by tomorrow, similar to rae1234. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

UMich is a lot more fun. Just look up Umich people on linkedin, they're everywhere, and in prestigous roles to that. I;ve also heard UMich alumni like to help each other, which is also a plus and may explain why there are so many UMich people in front office roles.

If I could re-do it all again, and I had the choice between the two, I would do UMich hands down.

 

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