Hey everyone, I recently posted here about picking an undergrad school but because of various factors such as size, location, cost, etc. I have narrowed it down to Tulane and SMU. (I am on the waiting list at Rice and will attend there if I am admitted but I still have to pick another school to enroll at in the meantime). So, I know that neither of these schools are big targets for IB but which one do you think I would have a better shot at breaking in from? Also, at SMU I was offered direct freshmen admission and honors at the Cox School of Business if that makes a difference (at Tulane, anyone can be in the business school if they want to.) I would major in Finance at either one with perhaps a second major in Economics.
Thanks!
TCU
If there's one school that I actively despise it's Texas Christian...
Why?
Are you trying to get into energies or just ib in general?
Both suck
How did you manage to narrow your search down to those two school and actually consider cost as a factor? I know at least a few people working in IB in Houston who graduated from Cox. I still don't understand the value proposition of either school...
i know nothing of Tulane but TCU and SMU both place well at BB's in Houston (and you can get to New York too, just a little more difficult).
So based on your question, I would say SMU.
Don't listen to kp217, or the fetus, as I will affectionately call him.
Congrats on recently becoming old enough to vote, kp217. That's a big step in a child's life. Next thing you know you'll be renting a car all by yourself. You guys grow up so fast these days.
lol. was this really necessary?
I thought that was mild compared to fetus.
Thanks cartwright.
I dislike TCU because they are SMU's main rival haha I have some family that went there. And basically cost is a factor because of scholarships from the two although SMU would be a bit cheaper. And I'm open to any field within banking but energy does sound interesting. I'm feeling like SMU would give me more options in terms of business but I think I might do better/have more fun at Tulane, does that matter that much or should I just focus on the career side?
SMU hands down. Great alumni network, and being pre-admitted to the Cox Honors program probably will get you somewhere.
The football team is making a comeback as of late, and the boulevard has great tailgating. Also, the ladies at SMU are pretty top notch.
I agree on the cost thing though, if SMU is where you want to attend based on cost as a factor, that could be an issue socially. SMU has more spoiled rich kids than I've ever seen in my life. It's also in the wealthiest section of Dallas.
Final Analysis: Work you butt off, but have a good time at SMU, and network solidly and you should get a banking offer and be able to enjoy your college experience.
You'll undoubtedly have more fun at Tulane. Can't ask for a better party city than New Orleans. If you want to do energy Tulane has a great program with energy specializations.
I would actually dispute this. Have you ever been to Dallas? I have been to Mardi Gras, and to Dallas numerous times, and Dallas is by far a better party city.
out of your two choices, SMU is best and their b-program is more renown than Tulane. if you do get into Rice however, you'll have better prospects.
Oh I just mentioned that because it's fact, a few thousand dollars won't make a big difference but hey it's money saved. So cost won't factor into the decision between Tulane and SMU and yes I'm aware of the "rich kid" phenomenon at SMU (My high school sent 11 kids there last year that were all in this stereotype) but I could probably handle it. Not sure though I think I might fit in better at Tulane. (I'm brown if it makes a difference in terms of life at either school if anyone has any insight on that.)
Thanks again
Let's just say I've raged in uptown a time or two..
^^^^^ Snake & Jakes Lounge?
Minimal difference. Go for the best overall college experience, if you're happier you'll work harder and network better.
UT Dallas. Alumni network is weaker, but the overall education is better, rankings are on a meteoric rise (latest US News MBA rankings: UTD #40, Tulane #40, SMU #57). Cost of attending is about 1/4th of those other two options.
Partying isn't as good, but that's what the city is for.
^^ you can't be serious...
For considering ROE and an appreciating asset over prestige or partying? Dead serious... And those are real rankings from the primary source.
It's amazing to me how much instant gratification people expect out of a degree - and these are people who are going into business to understand how to find an appreciating asset! Outside of the general southwestern area, SMU/Tulane names mean nothing, their tuition is massively overbloated, and the only advantage they gain you is networking - which can be done cheaply/freely through other means.
And outside of a 3 block radius, the UTD name means nothing. It's not even in Dallas proper.
Networking is the only advantage of any MBA program. You could learn an MBA's worth of curriculum with about $1000 worth of books from Amazon. You go for access to select employers and a network, and UTD offers neither.
if you want to do energy trading then tulane if you want to do ibanking then SMU.. i guess?
I agree...Tulane's strengths are energy, S&T, and capital markets in general. While SMU's strength is Ibanking. Wherever you go network and get at least a 3.5.
When schools are "ranked" between 20-40 you are really splitting hairs and the outcome is really dependent upon the individual. I am sure we all know Ivy kids in the business, but we all also know that one guy who came from Illinois College (Jacob Tucker) working FO and killing it.
UT
Of those two, SMU
I don't know much about Tulane, but I do know a few UG's who got banking from SMU. Also, SMU has top notch women.
Definitely, SMU, although UT and TCU place much better. How can you say TCU is SMU's main rival, TCU has beat them every year for as long as I can remember...
Don't do Rice as you will have no fun and they don't place as well as some people think.
At any of those schools it will be up to you how hard you work and network to get yourself into the industry...
UT Arlington hands down, best ROE. Pay 1,200 a semester and graduate making 36K a year....according to Fulorian's logic...
The difference being, UT Dallas is an emerging tier-1 university, UT Arlington is a 4-year community college.
UTD has a very strong reputation as a top-tier STEM graduate school all throughout Texas. Did you totally ignore the part about three posts up about being ranked #40 MBA by the gold standard of MBA rankings? Above SMU and tied with Tulane? From a program that is less than 15 years old?
I'm a UTD grad student, and the majority of my classmates are either at JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, or regional IB's. Not exactly like we're left high and dry because we don't fit in the mold of names you've known your whole life.
Going to a school that isn't in ascendancy, preferring instead for one that has peaked, is like passing up $100 Apple to buy $40 Microsoft.
Doing what at JP Morgan and Morgan Stanley?
No offense, but you are drinking way too much UTD Kool-Aid
As a general rule of thumb, especially in Texas, if its a branch school from a flagship university, its a glorified community college for those that couldn't get into A&M or UT.
Historically, yes. That has been very rapidly changing. A lot of political momentum has been building in the last 5 years to expand the tier-one schools in Texas, and a law was passed in 2009 to greatly increase funding to schools who can meet certain metrics of being on the threshold of tier-one status, all of which UTD is closest to meeting, and has most rapidly accelerated to meet.
UT Austin and A&M have been overfunded to the point of gratuitous waste in the past simply because essentially the entire legislature holds degrees from those two institutions. Now that this is changing (the next tier-1 schools get significant access to the PUF, the cash hoard that UT and A&M share) UTD and possibly UH will be emerging as powerhouses. However, since Houston has Rice and closest access to A&M (relative to the rest of the triangle of Austin/Dallas/Houston), Dallas is the only school without a tier-1 school, and UTD is the only one even remotely close.
It may sound ridiculous to compare, but UTD is emerging relative to UT Austin exactly the same as UCLA did to Berkeley in the 50s/60s. The political will behind it is very similar. If you would actually do the research, you'd see that UTD compares very favorably to other flagship schools, where the rest of the UT system is largely as you credit them.
Is it really drinking Kool-Aid to suggest that a third option be viable? Nobody can offer any rebuttal other than 'ha ha UTD ha ha!', contrary to the cold, hard facts.
Why don't you give us some cold, hard facts then? How many kids from UTD undergrad get into banking every year? Where do they place?
How many do at Tulane and SMU? I'll answer your question when you answer mine.
Why do people get so aggressive when their perceptions are challenged? How can you possibly even be a useful banker/researcher/trader/etc if your worldview is so closed that you cannot spot trends until after they happen?
Rice>UT>A&M>SMU>TCU>BAYLOR>
No need to rank any others in Texas.
Your first two are wrong.
US News tends to be a little more credible than Mister Cheese, in my world.
They see it as UT > Rice > A&M > UT Dallas > SMU > Baylor > TCU.
This little echo chamber of HPY->KKR worshipping high schoolers gets so tiresome.
LOL
Community college that has higher undergraduate admission standards than any other school in Texas, other than Rice and Austin? Riiiiight.
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools…
LOL all you want.
40 Tulane University (Freeman)
New Orleans, LA
Full-time: $40,350 per year 183 674
40 University of Texas--Dallas
Richardson, TX
In-state, full-time: $11,000 per year; Out-of-state, full-time: $21,000 per year 105 668
57 Southern Methodist University (Cox)
Dallas, TX
Full-time: $43,990 per year 226 643
60 Baylor University (Hankamer)
Waco, TX
Full-time: $26,966 per year 87 622
80 Texas Christian University (Neeley)
Fort Worth, TX
Full-time: $28,080 per year 118 647
Besides the fact that rankings are pretty much irrelevant here because we're talking about banking, you posted MBA rankings, how is that relevant to undergrad?
Undergraduate rankings are pretty much an afterthought. A business school's reputation IS it's MBA rankings.
I'm convinced
I'm applying to UT-Dallas for my MBA
You ruh-tards are interchanging MBA and undergrad. Make up your damn mind.
Regardless, UTD is an also ran and will remain so. Maybe you do better than Baylor (no idea where those kids end up) but TCU and SMU place several kids (which is pretty decent on a % basis) into IB in Houston and New York every year. I spent my first semester of MBA school giving HJ's to every bank in Houston and didn't meet a single person from directional Texas.
Falopian Tube, you even wrote in another thread
There aren't even BB's in Dallas, other than JPM mid-corp, JPM consumer retail, and a shrinking ML generalist office. And there isnt a UTD kid in latter two, and probably not the former either, and that is a certainty. Unless they hide him under the desk. So I don't know where these kids are going, other than the holla-back office.
Maybe UTD is learning themselves a generation of future Fed chairmen up there in Richardson, but the facts are that from a recruiting and reputation perspective (which is all the matters, despite what a school might try to sell you) UTD is not even in the conversation.
Aaaand scene.
^^^^Owned^^^^^
Recruiting =/= opportunities. Like I said, many, many of my friends are doing regional IB. They did it through connections at the school, with other students, not through some bullshit anonymous career office --> superday --> pray route. Life is not about making it into GS/MS/JPM/KKR. There -is- a world outside of New York, and there is a world outside of your local career office.
Also, what areas of those BB's that operate out of Dallas you are aware of are by no means the extent of it. Finance is very... hidden... in Dallas, for reasons I don't fully understand. But there are most definitely areas of it that are quite desirable that operate out of Dallas, they just don't make attempts at publicizing it.
And funny you mention Fed members...
http://www.texasmonthly.com/2009-05-01/webextra13.php
On that note, this has gotten excessively out of hand, so I'm exiting this - I just wanted to give another viable alternative to the original poster.
To the OP: Tulane and SMU are both excellent schools. UT Dallas is another excellent school in the same region and with equivalent academic reputation, but is still building it's connections to the industry, and direct recruiting is weaker. However, if you'd like to save $20,000 a year in tuition and are willing to socialize/network to find a good position in finance without instant admission via career office (which won't happen anyway, even at Tulane/SMU), it's a viable alternative. Have fun and enjoy your time in school. If Mommy and Daddy are footing the bill, then don't worry about it and go for whichever.
That was a fapfest if ever I saw one ... spent 5 minutes reading kids argue over state school branch prestige.
I worked in Dallas, full-time, for 4 years on both the sell and buyside and I am fully aware of who is and who is not in the DFW metroplex. I think the community might only be hidden if you are not a part of it.
Reasons you might not be a part of it:
1.) You attend UT that is not in Austin.
No hate to the OP, but how can you NOT get into UT? The ONLY thing you have to do is finish in the top 10 percent of your high school. You can make a 15 on the ACT and still get into UT (granted you won't get into McCombs but you can just go liberal arts, make a 3.5 and then transfer). If you aren't in the top 10 percent of your high school you might want to consider another career?
Sooooo are you saying bankers are in the top 10% in intelligence?
Class rank shows drive/motivation just as much as it does intelligence, probably more so.
Says the Ole Miss grad? The best high schools are extremely competitive among the top 8%.
I chose Ole Miss over UT (and yes I got into McCombs too). I got a 30 on the ACT phaggot, I would have gotten into UT even if I was not in the top 10 percent of my hs.
......i hope you are joking
Yeah because all people in PE and Banking start out rocking academics at age 14, get a fucking grip. I barely graduated top 15% of my HS class with a shitty 1250 on my SAT and buckled down in undergrad, wouln't change any of that because of where i ended up. If we are talking UG finance placement over the last two years (only taking into account finance majors with 3.8 major GPA and over, who actually give a fuck about banking/PE) on a per capita basis, TCU has done pretty fucking well... TCU Grad school blows though so please disregard all comments if this thread is about MBA programs...
Dude I go to a nationally ranked ridiculously competitive prep school and our top 8% is like 8 people (who all got into HYPS etc). UT only looks at class rank which is ridiculous because obviously I and others from my and other private schools are way more qualified than kids from the top 8% at shitty public schools. But whatever, I did get into UT via the CAP program and I don't want to go to a giant state school anyways. So if I want to do IB in Texas which one is better (I'm obviously shooting higher for an MBA program but for now this is what I've got)
Just go to McCombs for MBA then. It is easy to get in; the average GMAT is only like a 675 or something.
Yeah I would definitely consider an MBA at Texas (hopefully Harvard or Stanford but we'll see how I do in college, I think I can pull off a 3.8+ and I know I'm a good test-taker) but until then...I'm going to visit SMU one more time before deciding I guess.
kp217 I'm not hating, just curious, why are you already planning to get an MBA before you even start ugrad? That would be like 7-8 years from now (At the earliest). Not to mention its $150k + at least that in opportunity costs. Do you just really love school or something? Not saying MBAs are unwise investments, but you're a Senior in high school...
A fair point, I'm just assuming that I'll need one to advance or maybe even break into the industry and who knows what my interests will be like in 8 years. But for now I'm going with my career plan and that includes an MBA after working in an analyst rotation out of undergrad.
I got into SMU Business Honors with a nice scholarship, and very nearly went. It is a awesome campus, and, like previous posters were saying, the women are tops. Seriously, the best in the country outside of a few south eastern schools and maybe USC. Great parties too. SMU usually comes in behind Rice and UTA for Texas recruiting, and actually gets a decent % of the business honors students into banking.
I never looked too seriously into Tulane for undergrad, but New Orleans is a great city. Lots of fun, but less preppy than the part of Dallas SMU is in. The whole city is a bit more laid back.
Honestly, the opportunities from either school will not be hugely different. Tulane is the clear winner though if you think you are interested in energy trading; they actually have one of the best programs in the country. Otherwise, I would go to both schools, and settle on the one where you think you will most enjoy four years.
I went to SMU and this is very accurate. Banking recruiting is good, several BB's as well as boutiques and MM firms. Tends to be more Houston focused than New York, which is expected. They have added an alternative asset specialization within the finance major, which is a really competitive program and has great recruiting. Good luck on your decision.
I got a 32 on the ACT and didn't get into UT. Had a high GPA in high school too, can't ever remember making anything below an A- in a class -- just wasn't in the top 10% because I transferred from private to public school middle of junior year and was up against kids who had been inflating their GPA with AP classes that I didn't have access to in private school.
That said I go to SMU and am definitely pleased with my decision. Business scholars doesn't mean much -- only lasts for freshman year as far as I'm aware, but if you come here and do the business honors program and/or the university honors program (liberal arts), get a high GPA, and do the internships and such, you will definitely be there or thereabouts for IB recruiting come junior year. As has been mentioned though it's much more common for SMU grads to do IB in Houston than in NYC.
I had friends in the same boat JWR. 32ish ACT scores and good GPAs (top 15%) that got rejected from UT. Several went to places like Vanderbilt, USC, etc. Admissions are very random if you aren't top 10 (now 8). Someone with a 30 is definitely not guaranteed. Obviously the test score range isn't going to be high with all the kids admitted from shitty high schools due to top 10%.
Now back to your regularly scheduled thread...
Actually it is not top 8 percent, it is still 10. The legislature wants to change it to 7.5 percent but the law has not been passed.
Also, per collegeboard.com, only 76 percent of UT students were in the top 10 percent of their high school graduating class.
Texas is extremely overrated. I've lived in Austin all my life and going to school at UT would suck. I go down there to visit my little brother (freshman in petro engineering) and there are tons of random FOB Indians and zero cute girls whatsoever. The campus is ridiculously overcrowded and it is like 10k a year for the shittiest little place. I'd rather roll the dice and go to a non-target than spend 4 years in that place.
It's not a question of whether UT wants to reject you or not, even if you're way in excess of their quartile ranges. The school has reached such critical mass crowding that they literally cannot give a slot to a 1600 SAT that shits gold nuggets and rainbows that isn't grandfathered in from the 10% (8%?) law. Something like 82% of all UT freshman are admitted through that law now, and an astounding amount of far more qualified students can't get a slot there because of such.
Not a very well thought out law...
How did I know this was going to turn into a flame war? Oh yeah were ranking schools on WSO.
^^^ your definitely in the minority. No pun intended. Ive never heard anyone not enjoy Austin nor UT
He is in the micro minority. Not hot girls? ahahahahahahahha! right...
You are a total fucktard to say that there are zero hot girls at UT. I can understand that view inside the McCombs building, which looks like the Saigon airport, but come out on a game day. You definitely have to wade through the jungles of Asia to find them, but there are plenty and they are spectacular.
I do wholeheartedly agree that Austin is tremendously overrated, but I am in the minority there...for some reason.
Sooooo...back to the original question(since we can all agree UT has awesome engineering/business/Plan II and will never become a top 5 public university due to the shitty state of an average TX public high school). Honestly I would go with SMU for overall potential...but make sure you can fit in there. SMU is not an intellectual school, and has plenty of idiotic rich Park Cities girl roaming The Hilltop. Very fratty and very money driven, according to friends attending that are not involved in Greek scene. I'm sure Tulane isn't a lot different, but it seems like you might have a bit more geographic/socioeconomic diversity there. Athletics aren't hugely different, although SMU has a better tailgate/gameday scene with Boulevarding and an on-campus stadium, but New Orleans is a better city for a college kid versus Dallas (this coming from a guy who lived in Dallas for over 10 years).
Honestly, it's probably not going to make a huge difference. Rice would certainly be preferred over both, assuming you prepare for interviews well. The main knock with Rice is that students are not as well prepared for IB/consulting interviews compared to UG business school counterparts. That said, an average Rice student is given a bit more intellectual credit than most schools in the region, especially Tulane and SMU. If you want banking in Houston, and are truly devoted to preparing for interviews and getting great intern experience, then Rice is your answer.
...
LOL did someone really try to argue UTD over SMU. I go to UTD, but I dont do anything finance related. I only know of one person doing ibanking at a boutique from utd. UTD blows for anything finance related.
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