Value of a Private Wealth Management Internship?

Hello, In considering internship opportunities for the coming years, a major opportunity for me would be to intern in the PWM area of GS. For the future I think I am mostly interesting in Asset Management, or Private equity. How helpful would a PWM internship be for those in the future?
Thanks

Comments (52)

 
Jun 30,2013

if your interested in AM and dont have an option within AM, GS PWM seems like a great option. From what i hear internal mobility within GS is pretty good

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Jun 30,2013

Thank you. Would it be smarter for me to pursue other opportunities (both in GS and apart from GS) in different groups... and if so, what areas would you suggest specifically? Thanks

 
Jun 30,2013

Why not trying AM right away at GS? If that's not an option go for PWM.

 
Jun 30,2013

Internal mobility from GS PWM to other parts is NOT good.

 
Jun 30,2013

Additional information: I am just a sophomore, and this is only an internship. So there wouldn't necessarily need to be internal mobility... but skill set wise, how valuable is this, and is it easily transferrable to other areas in case it doesn't fit me well? Is the name GS more important, or would it be better to go AM at another firm?
Thanks again.

 
Jul 31,2013

So you know, there is not much lateral ability from AM to other fields of finance. If anything, AM->PWM is the most, if not only, plausible movie. Figure out what you want to do, and pursue it. If AM is what you desire, then get an internship in it. Don't waste your time, and especially the time of individuals in the field. You'll learn what you will in PWM, being client-sided, etc. The transferability of your skills to other divisions is solely on you... Make use of that internship in every degree possible.

Currently a sophmore interning PWM at a BB, if you have any other questions.

 
 
Jul 31,2013

If you are a sophomore/freshman it may be worth it. You may get to network with interesting people, either in other more exciting parts of Asset Management or even in IBD during firm wide networking events. Also you'll get paid really well for not all that much work. Spending your summer in New York is also a lot more fun that doing research for a prof.

 
Jul 31,2013

I'll copy and paste what I said in the other thread....

It's slightly more complicated. If you're currently a freshman, PWM is great! It adds something nice to your resume and gives you a bit of credibility. If you're a sophomore however, a PWM stint even at a top BB is average at best. Come SA or FT recruiting, the banks will look towards those with specific high finance experience (i.e. HF/boutiques/VC/PE) well over those from PWM/marketing/sales etc... backgrounds.

My recommendation would be to pick up a PWM as a freshman (since they're relatively easy to get), and use it as leverage at a small boutique/hf/vc/pe your sophomore year. Getting that prior "banking experience" is what really gives you a leg-up to your peers.

That said, I did go from a PWM background to landing a top SA position, but it most definitely wasn't without struggle. Everyone with the prior high finance experience landed many more 1st rounds and overall had more success in terms of offers. Being able to talk comfortably about a deal you've worked on or a model you helped build sets you miles apart from others. Of course, this is assuming you know your technical and are likable.

 
Jul 31,2013

My two summers in PWM gave me a solid foundation and really helped during equity research interviews. It depends on what you're interested in long term, but personally, I think PWM is underrated as a stepping stone to wherever you want to end up.

 
Jul 31,2013

PWM is a solid place for a freshman or a soph looking to land an IBD or S&T internship their junior summer. The name recognition definitely helps and if people in the PWM department like you, they can very easily fwd your resume to people in other divisions of the bank. If you're good talent, they'll want to retain you regardless of where in the firm you end up.

 
Jul 31,2013

lets say hypothetically its the summer before your senior year and you're basically left with these two choices: 1) PWM at regional BB or 2) bond underwriting for insurance company (relatively big one)... and your overall goal is to land a FT offer at a BB next fall... which one of these would hold more weight? (keeping in mind that this is late in the game, summer before senior year)

 
Jul 31,2013

Honestly, I see nothing wrong with doing a stint in PWM over the summer, especially if you have no other experience.

Personally, I do not go to a target, so I had to take anything I could find after my Sophomore summer. I ended up working at The Bank of NY Mellon in an operations-type role. The job was boring as hell and far from, "high level finance. That said, it was better to have that than nothing at all.

I'd go for it, especially if it is for a big name firm.

 
Jul 31,2013

I had a superday with JPM for PwC and the top pick from what the recruiter tells me, but they canceled their program out here in their branch offices

 
 
Jul 31,2013

Dude you idiot take it. It is something that many of us, including myself, have done to get more internships coming in.

 
Jul 31,2013

take it if you have free time and not much other experience. Any experience will give you a leg up, obviously like the better the experience/rep of firm the better your chances

 
Jul 31,2013

Definitely take it if it is feasible and it's somewhere near the field you want to go into. Once you get out of school, internships generally suck.

 
Jul 31,2013
atticusmp:

Definitely take it if it is feasible and it's somewhere near the field you want to go into. Once you get out of school, internships generally suck.

I don't think internships necessarily suck once you get out of school. I am out of school interning and it is better than being unemployed, trust me..

 
Jul 31,2013

How is LPL Financial view on the street?

"Have you ever tried to use a chain with 3 weak links? I have, and now I no longer own an arctic wolf."
-Dwight Schrute

 
Jul 31,2013
Hamilton:

How is LPL Financial view on the street?

PWM, at any firm, says: "I couldn't get an internship in the division I want, so I did this to make the point that I'm serious." It puts you on the radar. If you want to do IBD and have an IBD internship, well, then do that....otherwise, take what you can and realize it's a stepping stone.

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Jul 31,2013

Relax man, my GPA is bad and I've done two PE internships and a banking internship. If they ask, just don't tell them your GPA is bad because you were your dorm's beer pong champ; you are very involved on campus, have an on-campus job, previous internship etc. Clearly you impressed them in your interviews... that's what matters.

 
Jul 31,2013

if it is just cold calling clients, i think they dont care that much about your gpa. it is standard that if you dont put your gpa, your gpa is expected to be low. it is probably a hiring standard that they must request your transcript.
you may ask your career office for advice since you got this through them.

 
Jul 31,2013

this depends, is your bad GPA a result of poor work effort throughout college or a simple case of "fucked up my freshman year, had a hard time getting adjusted, but my major GPA is a 3.5?"

it's an uphill battle, but I've done the cold calling thing and it's more about effort than IQ (not saying you're stupid, because GPA isn't a marker of intelligence), but I highly doubt they'll care.

 
Jul 31,2013

They are not idiots -- they noticed that your GPA wasn't on your resume and ended up choosing you anyways. No one sees a resume for an internship WITHOUT a GPA and thinks "I bet that kid has a 4.0 but chose not to list it anyways, he is truly #humbeled*." They assumed it was dogshit and were right, still higher than mine was.

* @PFTcommenter is the best twitter follow you could ever make

This to all my hatin' folks seeing me getting guac right now..

 
Jul 31,2013
Cruncharoo:

They are not idiots

ehhhh.....it is PWM

 
 
Jul 31,2013

improving a clients portfolio efficiency by MPT and black-litterman?

 
Jul 31,2013

Something with economic indicators would give you some quality talking points, I'm too tired to come up with what to do specifically though

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

 
Jul 31,2013

You're right, doing an analysis of four stocks is not impressive. Of course I don't know how detailed you'd be planning to get/what you'd be wanting to accomplish , but a decent report would take all of what, a couple hours? No offense but if this is your idea for a big project, then what have you been doing all summer?

What's your boss like? Is this person a vanilla/mutual fund type? If so, then focusing on stocks may not be the most relevant idea. Also, what software do you have available? Morningstar makes applying the basics of MPT(ie generating the figures) a complete cakewalk.

My suggestion would be to formulate some sort of pitch for a new account/portfolio or something along those lines. So in other words, you could take your stock analysis idea as a starting point but use your boss' preferred investments. Focus on using that project as a means to an end. Do the research/analysis, portfolio building, optimizing(MPT, etc.), and make a proposal to give to your boss. Just an idea, anyway.

 
Jul 31,2013
Gevurah:

You're right, doing an analysis of four stocks is not impressive. Of course I don't know how detailed you'd be planning to get/what you'd be wanting to accomplish , but a decent report would take all of what, a couple hours? No offense but if this is your idea for a big project, then what have you been doing all summer?

You think you can:
1) Go through their last 10k
2) Go through their last few 10Qs
3) Read through their last 2-3 analyst calls
4) Talk to the firm
5) Talk to/read sell side reports
6) Determine how the market has priced the firm in the past and how it is pricing it presently
7) Develop a credible investment thesis based on the above that seeks to find where the market is "missing it"
8) Identify 2-3 catalysts that are going to cause your thesis to take hold
9) Identify weaknesses in your thesis that might cause it to fall apart
10) Model out its value in Excel and then apply appropriate and defendable multiples
11) Write up a report

...in a couple of hours?

 
Jul 31,2013
NorthEastIdiot:
Gevurah:

You're right, doing an analysis of four stocks is not impressive. Of course I don't know how detailed you'd be planning to get/what you'd be wanting to accomplish , but a decent report would take all of what, a couple hours? No offense but if this is your idea for a big project, then what have you been doing all summer?

You think you can:
1) Go through their last 10k
2) Go through their last few 10Qs
3) Read through their last 2-3 analyst calls
4) Talk to the firm
5) Talk to/read sell side reports
6) Determine how the market has priced the firm in the past and how it is pricing it presently
7) Develop a credible investment thesis based on the above that seeks to find where the market is "missing it"
8) Identify 2-3 catalysts that are going to cause your thesis to take hold
9) Identify weaknesses in your thesis that might cause it to fall apart
10) Model out its value in Excel and then apply appropriate and defendable multiples
11) Write up a report

...in a couple of hours?

No, obviously not. I stand corrected. A stock report can be a lengthy project. However, I think most of that is pretty unnecessary for PWM and as someone else pointed out, this isn't ER. PWM doesn't call for that level of detail. But hell, what do I know? I'm simply another PWM intern.

 
Jul 31,2013

NorthEast you must be really slow man, maybe try asking Gevurah on how to be more efficient?

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

 
Jul 31,2013

Dude, you're in PWM, not equity research. You work in fund picking, not stock picking. A report on 4 equities would be pretty useless to your bosses. You want to do something impressive? Then do analysis on funds and have some recommendations as to new investment products they might find attractive.

Rather than do a report on 4 stocks, do a report on four funds. Recommend them four funds that they're not invested in you think might make sense.

If I were working in PWM, I would encourage my bosses to overweight certain energy funds and come up with concrete recommendations. i would explain why energy is the most attractive sector for the next few decades, and why the funds I chose exploit the trends in different ways. I would also show how the funds improve an investor's risk-adjusted return.

 
 
Jul 31,2013

name value is very important. even a PWM internship that's 2 hours a week with a top name will help open a lot of doors.

 
Jul 31,2013

Thanks. As a follow up:

  1. How important is the work you do?
  2. Is there a higher rate for moving into the banking divisions at the same firm?
 
Jul 31,2013
HarvardOrBust:

Thanks. As a follow up:

  1. How important is the work you do?
  2. Is there a higher rate for moving into the banking divisions at the same firm?
  • Most all PWM internships are bs, recruiters know that. Just make out of it what you can, be proactive in asking for work, don't settle for cold calling/coffee runs.
  • Minimal, approaching 0%
  •  
    Jul 31,2013
    HarvardOrBust:

    Thanks. As a follow up:

    1. How important is the work you do?
    2. Is there a higher rate for moving into the banking divisions at the same firm?

    In my experience, I interned during the school year for 3-5 hours a week at Merrill Lynch's PWM arm. I worked directly with an advisor, and did whatever he asked. There were 3 other interns under him, and I was given the "best" job. Nothing was terribly exciting though - I had to analyze a small cap stock for a client, do some cold calling, make a model which shows fees, etc.

    To answer your questions:

    1. depends - but usually not important. Sometimes were semi-important
    2. nor sure - someone at goldman said he was impressed I had an internship with Merrill when I was interviewing for an internship at goldman ibd - i'm sure it was entirely due to the name and not the work I did. I would not count on moving around at the same firm doing PWM.
     
    Jul 31,2013

    PWM internships generally are a waste of time. The best way to stretch them is to get a brand name like BAML, UBS, or MSSB.

    PWM is basically admin work that adds no value to your personal development. The skill set in PWM and IB are two different monsters.

     
    Jul 31,2013

    You do a PWM internship because you have no other skills and it is a good first step. It teaches you how to behave in a professional environment. It gives you solid references who can back you up. You learn about the markets, dealing with customers, doing grunt work. As has been mentioned repeatedly on this board, real banking is 90% BS work.

    Brand names are important, but if a certain PWM shop has a special niche or is more a hybrid with asset management or something like that I would go for the place with real experience over a name. Frankly, you should be doing a PWM during the school year, not wasting a summer doing it.

    It is also an easy way to get your licenses. Maybe not a big deal, but having series licenses on your resume will be just one more thing which helps you stand out.

     
    Jul 31,2013

    I've never done a PWM internship to date, but I've heard stories about kids who had their resumes passed around internally.

    If you kick ass and add a lot of value during the summer, then sit down with your boss or staffer at the end of the summer and tell them your interest in IBD. If you did your job right and you picked the right person to be your mentor, they should have contacts within the bank. If they have a contact in IBD or IBD HR then you are guaranteed at least a first round interview.

     
    Jul 31,2013

    hmm.. I've got a tough decision to make I guess

     
    Jul 31,2013

    I did a pwm internship during the school year and got a FT FO offer (not the same bank). Get a brand name and interviewers will definitely ask about it, so try and get involved with an advisor and play it up as much as possible.

     
    Jul 31,2013

    I think the summer(s) after your freshman and sophomore year should be spent at a GWM firm while maybe taking a class or two. That way by the time you're done junior year, you'll have 2 good names under your belt for internships and can stand a better chance of getting into a IB internship which gives you a MUCH better chance of getting a job.

     
     
    Best Response
    Jul 31,2013

    @Pocar here's advice I gave someone with a similar question:

    https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/is-freshmen...
    I think PMW is a great Freshman-level internship and something I wish I would've taken advantage of. I'm assuming this is a reputable firm?

    Either ways by completing this internship you're going to be demonstrating (from what I know) the following skills:

    1.) Client Relations/Service - Cold calling tends to be a big part of what interns do (AFAIK). It'll give you an opportunity to improve your communication skills by dealing with current or potential clients. It will also give you an opportunity to add bullet points to your resume such as "Converted 40% of leads into active clients within a 3 month period."

    2.) Time Management/Organization - Making presentations or helping with the initial drafts will help you become proficient at condensing important information down into digestible chunks and give you a flavor of what you will probably be doing at an IB or even Corporate Development function with respect to pitch books or proposals.

    3.) Professionalism - Given that you're a Freshman I'm assuming you haven't worked in an office-type environment. If so, this internship will give you an idea of how to conduct yourself and prepare you for when you do take on an internship at an IB.

     
    Jul 31,2013