Vanderbilt MSF vs Kellogg MMS vs Ross MM
I have been accepted at the first two programs and have an upcoming interview with Ross. My post-grad goal is management consulting, preferably MBB. As for location, I am looking for Northeast and possibly West Coast San Fran/LA. Here is what I know and please let me know if you can confirm/refute this:
Vanderbilt has been consistently churning out amazing placement reports with strong NYC presence and average over last 4 years of 98% of students with offers 3 months post-grad. A close college friend of mine went there and is at McKinsey now.
Kellogg just attracts me so much with its MBA reputation... Newer program without much detailed placement reports. However, I did speak with a current student there and was told that McKinsey and Bain do recruit on campus. Same person mentioned that placements are quite diverse in terms of location including NYC, Boston, Chicago, San Fran. I also believe that given the strong consulting MBA placement, networking with MBA alumni could potentially provide an in to MBB.
Ross' MM seems to place well in consulting and has BCG listed as an employer in its reports. It also has some small presence in Bay Area and Northeast. Do not know much besides that though.
Lastly, both Vanderbilt and Kellogg offered me the same scholarship amount. An important factor to add is that I am international and as such Vanderbilt's MSF is STEM certified giving me up to 3 years of post-grad employment without work Visa (or up to 3 applications for said Visa), while Kellogg's and Ross' are not.
Thanks guys in advance!
Seems tricky!
I wouldn't worry over STEM, because MBBs are pretty agnostic in sponsorships, I may be off because i don't need it, so check on that.
In terms of brand, Kellogg and Ross js a bigger tier, sorry for Vanderbilt. I wouldn't count money quickly even though it's attractive. I think Kellogg MM doesn't do classes in their Global Hub or in Evanston, and Ross only has one building in center of UM campus, which can be key for recruitment and networking. Location wise, Kellogg/Ross are for Chicago market, some more edge for Detroit at Ross but Chicago edge goes to Kellogg in general. not sure if Vanderbilt is with Emory for Atlanta offices or wherever
Another key question - how would you frame a MSF story for consulting. Your friend did it but it may not work for everybody
Definitely have to worry about STEM if OP wants to stay in the US. MBB will be willing to sponsor him, but he only has a ~30% chance at getting the H1-B Visa. If he doesn't get it they'll likely transfer him to a different office outside of the country, but OP might not want that option if his goal is strictly to work in the US. The STEM certification gives him three shots at it and a guaranteed 3 years in the US. Also, if he doesn't actually make it to MBB or Big 4 and is at a smaller consulting firm, he may not have the option of transferring to a foreign office if he doesn't get the H1-B.
I personally think if an international student is dead set on wanting to work in the US, then it only makes sense to study there if they get the STEM extension.
Sure, I have had people got kicked in the groin with post-STEM H1b hiccups, so I would support that idea; however, I think many firms would generally categorize you into A) citizens and residents or B) students needing sponsorships. STEM helps obviously, but it's still pretty difficult either way. I also had stories in which very personal friends got notes saying
"You're STEM but whatever, get me a residency proof and I give you an offer now, but otherwise have a good day"
On the other side, STEM requires OP to make a big trade-off in major selection for a pretty accelerated business program, and I feel it may have more implication than a short-term STEM extension. Eager to hear your views on it.
Your goal is MBB consulting. Go Northwestern.
Michigan is fine, but NW is a consulting powerhouse.
Vanderbilt beats all three if you're open to anything other than consulting.
This is a classical example of worthless advice, or in your words, shit advice.
MBB won't work for many people, many need strong backups. You simply have no idea!
But you're forgiven for once.
Frog in a well!
Other STEM, MSF can't crank out anything useful for marketing or consulting or tech o corporate strategy /operations and little for startups.
Again, you're forgiven.
Forget to take your pills?
OP wants MBB. Northwestern is a) one of the best schools in the country and b) a consulting powerhouse.
Their MSM has been around for a while now and if that's that OPs main goal then this is the school for him.
If his goal was consultanting or finance then I'd say Vanderbilt as they place into both, albeit not necessarily into just MBB.
Listen, your advise isn't shit because in order for it to be worthless it would have to make some form of sense or be at least tangentially related to the topic. Instead you drop phrases like "frog in a well" which make no sense and make you sound like my niece when she's had too much sugar.
Go sit in the corner before you hurt yourself.
Tough call
It's always funny to see whatterock Vs. TNA. I believe that TNA has a reputation at WSO.
because it's like when I walk our dog - he pees everywhere along the way.
Hey guys! Thank you so much for your responses! I will definitely take that info in mind.
Regarding the Visa issue, I researched a bit and recalled what I was told during college and basically there are several options (for those that might be in my shoes).
OPT to H1B. Company takes care of process and there are 65k seats for undegrads and additional 20k for more advanced degrees (yes, as far as I understand, masters do count here). That means as a Masters student, I will first be considered for the 20K seats and if the lottery kicks me out of that bucket, I will be then considered for the 65K seats where the undegrads are. Hence, I do have higher chances. I read at two different places that chances are around ~60%. From H1B after 3-6 years, conversion to green card can occur, again initiated by the employer.
Then there is the option, if the company is big enough and the ones I will apply to (EY, PwC, Deloitte, Accenture, MBB) are, that the employer will send you to another office (London, I am from the EU) and after a year bring you back on a L1 Visa (basically intracompany transfer and it can last up to 7 years depending on country of citizenship, I think mine is fine, but some countries due to relations with the US limit this time down to 1-2 years).
Or, there is the O1 Visa for "exceptional skills"... Muddy lawyer definitions here. But I do know two people who did it and then applied again for H1B (can apply ones each year). So it can buy time.
There is some visas for non-profit companies that do not have caps like the 85K seats mentioned above, but that is all I know.
My take is that I will probably take the risk of forgoing the STEM extension from Vanderbilt for the, in my opinion, consulting-focused degree at Kellogg and its alumni connections. Furthermore, I did speak to my contact at Vanderbilt, and his break into McKinsey (not in the US...) was not school-facilitated. My other contact at Kellogg confirmed that he did have an offer in Boston (consulting), but preferred Chicago because of family ties and that the school placed evenly across San Fran/NYC and Chicago. That was basically all I needed to hear to finalize my decision along with the L1 option. Besides, I do love Europe and my fam is here so working in the US for a year then coming back, in worst case scenario, for good is not gonna be the end of my world.
Please, do contribute more! I am sure lots of people will have similar questions and it will be very helpful. Especially, since Kellogg's MSMS will be possibly accumulating more attention and it does not have much published out there in terms of placements.
It's clear that you did due diligence beyond the 5 second brand research. Kudos for being responsible for yourself.
Now you'd find two things rewarding 1. Forget about these one-offs from one guy who could be just lucky or have person ties unless you find evidence that the programs consistently produce some type of outcomes 2. Find the most disagreeable information. E.g. while I clearly love Kellogg and Ross better, Kellogg MSMS had a scandal two years ago, and one could say U of Michigan has a massive ton of internationals overall with its reliance on weak state budget support.
Good choice and congrats. Hit me up when you're in Chicago.
definitely Kellogg
I'll be curious to see how that plays out. It's quite a risky bet for OP.
In line with pretty much everything whattherock said, it's fair to say US MMS/MSMS/MM will enable its graduates to get into Deloitte and Accenture, as far as consulting is concerned.
Thinking it'll make you a target for MBB (especially when you have no previous MBB internship experience beforehand) is just denying the obvious.
In 100% of instances, when MBB appears in employment reports/student facts, please bear in mind that the student who received the full-time offer was a Havard/Yale/Princeton/Brown undergraduate (LinkedIn's your friend).
Thank you for the opinion!
I sincerely do not believe I will be a target solely because of the MSMS. All that matters to me is relying on the school brand to get me that first round interview at MBB. The rest is exclusively up to me, in my opinion. Thus, that is what I am optimizing - increasing my chances to get the interview.
Don't forget to swing by the WSO forums to update us on your ambitious journey :)
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