View on Jack Woodruff's Candlestick Capital
I recently heard some chatters about this $5-6B consumer focused fund spun out of Citadel - Jack was the PM managing the largest pod? Anyone has more color here? What do people think of them?
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Should have similarities with Melvin given he worked for Gabe.
They perform well, people are smart, and they operate verticalized - meaning that even though its multi-PM you're (theoretically) not going to be stepping on anybody elses toes by competing for capital within the same sectors. Seems like a great place to learn but - and I might get some shit for this - you're gonna have to think about what kind of work-life balance you want because these guys work 6 days a week (they have a saying, "sundays are the new mondays").
Why you get sht for this? That's a fact. And they do 2,000+ row financial modeling for each name, again, Melvin process.
Yea honestly it seems a little excessive to me. Just bc I think often these conversations devolve into just the sigma grindset mentality - badge of pride for giving up your life. Ultimately a very personal decision to make but personally working 6/7 days a week was just horrible for my mental health, so just wanna make sure ppl know this going in.
do you have any idea if Holocene is run in a similar manner since they both spun off from citadel?
Holocene doesn't have multiple pods. It's a few sector teams that run their own books with best ideas run in the scaled Holocene central book, which has its own sector analysts.
Ironically, won't working that many hours actually be a detriment to your learning because you don't have the time to sit, think, read and internalize all those experiences? Can definitely see that playing out for me? Just sayin', everyone has their own pace
Sometimes I look at how stocks move and there’s just no way 500 extra lines in my model would’ve helped. Wonder wtf is the point - but lol everyone has their own process.
any idea what general hours are like during the regular workweek?
I was invited to interview with them but bowed out after learning that not only do they work on Sundays, but that you should expect to be on the phone with your PM and rest of team and expect a full work day. It's not just a couple hours.
They had 40% return last year and was the top team at Citadel for 7+ years. Not sure what else you'd need to know. They are a SM now with big book / sector books, not a pod shop. Just like how Melvin is run. Holocene is the same way, I think.
Fwiw, you do need to put in the hours to get that return so it's up to what you are looking for.
Tiger/ whale rock?
please don’t respond with “tHeYre JuSt LeVeReD to ThE GrOwTh FaCtOr and the only way to make $ is to have 5000 line models that are myopic and have no bearing on anything” that is just a sign that you’re ngmi
FYI Whale Rock's public arm is down 11.2% YTD. source: https://www.wsj.com/articles/as-hedge-funds-endure-rocky-year-private-c…
Listen - they are all great seats and I'm just sharing what I know with the op
Returns between tiger cubs and mkt neutral pod shops are not really comparable, considering factor/mkt exposure.
Yes, tiger cub likely much better seat in terms of comp and lifestyle. And their strats are likely much more interesting to someone focused on investing in biz rather than trading situations. But also much harder to get into, some arent necessarily chill (ie coatue), and at the end of the day they are not the "investment gods" everyone makes them out to be. What the factor/mkt neutral shops is much more interesting in terms of alpha generation, and it's clear that allocators know this too when they pay 5%/50% to invest in MM's
you sound like you're projecting a bit, other guy just shared some info as he said.
I respect folks at Candlestick, but it was definitely not up 40% last year and it did not run a traditional a Citadel model. Just wanted to help keep facts straight.
How did they run at citadel?
Safe to say they ran the Citadel way? Good God.
Get the f off this platform and go back to Reddit @nillynillybilly
Are they considered sm or mm?
anyone have updated views on candlestick / how they've performed as of late?
They had a rough 2022, but the people there know their stuff and work hard. It’s a good place to learn. I got an offer there but after 4 years of banking/PE, didn’t want to commit to their WLB/grind/Sundays in the office as detailed above. However, if I didn’t have another offer I would have taken it.
This is a very good point. By the time you do the typical 2 + 3 or 2 + 2, most people are so burned out that it’s a real mental barrier to step into another grind. It’s one thing to have a 2 year break through an MBA or step into a VP position with junior people below you, but I can’t imagine going to a pod shop or something like Candlestick without meaningful time off. Even as someone that did a tough banking group to a tough MF PE role, it’s probably too much for me. I think it’s especially true in your late 20s when people start thinking about families or long term dating.
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