VP FI Trader Willing to answer questions
Hey Guys,
I am new to this site and like what I see, so I figure as a gesture to the WSO community I would provide some guidance to you rookies. I am essentially second in command (we don't really use VP but it seemed like it might be easier for you guys to find the thread) of the global arbitrage group at a major bank (I am hesitant to say which for privacy reasons) focusing on FI. I went to Fordham for undergrad, then to Columbia B-School and then went straight into trading. I have been on the desk since I graduated from Columbia in 1996. I am really good friends with the sales guys and would be happy to answer almost any questions in relation to breaking into sales and trading or any other questions you may have. Quick side note, I am somewhat familiar with other desks but would only really be able to provide background information.
Great! Maybe there is hope for us Fordham guys! I've sent you a private message, I hope you'll find that acceptable.
For many of us that want to do trading, some of us took a BO job, myself included at a BB (think JPM/GS/MS).
Have you seen people transition over to a trading job from the BO at your bank, and is this something that you can speak a little bit to?
This seems to be a common question. If you are already in a bank in whatever role, that is a fantastic start. I will be honest there is often no streamlined way to get into the trading side, and a lot of it depends on the culture of the bank (ie. how much they value loyalty) but I would say that you should absolutely use your key card to get onto those trading floors and do not be afraid to just meet people and talk to them (provided they are not too busy). A kid from BO came up and literally just asked me this amazing question about a trade that I had just come out against to the guys on my desk, and he found out what my point was. (It involved using CDS to hedge against the risk on a corporate bond). He is now a trader on my desk. i have seen a lot people on this site comment that your school and your grades and your internships are really key. All the guys I know understand that none of that is any indicator of how great a salesmen or trader you will be. And once you are in a bank they are virtually irrelevant We want bright ambitious and bold kids, so seriously use that card and meet everyone, because wall street is filled with good people who had others help them along the way, and they are (mostly) more than willing to take that 5 minutes out of their day to help you out. Remember not to be obnoxious and do not become an annoyance, but make a bold move and I can assure you it will eventually all come into place.
That sounds general but it is really the best advice I can give without knowing more about your specific situation, and i know more than a few people who literally have their jobs because they took the initiative.
How would you suggest going from investment banking to a trading desk? Bankers can't really walk on to the trading floor due to regulatory reasons I believe.
The suggestion was geared more towards people in BO MO and Private banking. Your bank should have a more official way for you to transfer over and HR is your best bet for going from banking to trading.
Between masters of science in finance and master of science in financial engineering, which degree do you think would be more important regarding getting a trading job at a major bank?
How does the MBA compare to these two degrees for trading?
Thanks for the time.
When a new analyst/associate joins your desk, how long does it take before they can trade on their own? What checkpoints do they need to hit before you give them that responsibility?
Thanks for sharing your time.
One small question: Is age irrilevant to the chance to be a trader? Let's exclude extreme ages.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks for giving us your time on this.
What is the best way to break into trading straight out of undergrad? Also, is algo trading taking over the industry?
Thanks for your time.
Similar to the question above, what do traders look for in applicants from undergrad? Is school name, GPA, and internships not as important as we think they are?
How do the traders at BB view proprietary trading firms in general and what is your personal impression on them?
what are your all time greatest books to read that have helped you really nail concepts you now use and apply every day...
thanks for the time dude.
Between masters of science in finance and master of science in financial engineering, which degree do you think would be more important regarding getting a trading job at a major bank?
How does the MBA compare to these two degrees for trading?
In all seriousness about 95% of what you need to know for trading will be learned on the trading floor. I would go with the shortest option (in terms of duration), and get onto a desk as quickly as possible. Grad school for a trader essentially teaches you to add so you can get onto a desk and learn algebra. As to looking the best, I personally would steer clear of financial engineering as I do not know that it has been fully accepted by recruiters, but in the end as I said it doesn't really matter.
One small question: Is age irrilevant to the chance to be a trader? Let's exclude extreme ages.
More or less it is yes. I think it is actually illegal to discriminate based on age but people on wall street could care less. It comes down to how good a trader you will be.
When a new analyst/associate joins your desk, how long does it take before they can trade on their own? What checkpoints do they need to hit before you give them that responsibility?
This is a question that has almost entirely to do with timing and the individual desk. My own guys have to develop their own system and (provided i approve) they are allowed to implement it. But the best way to get answer to this is to talk to your boss.
What is the best way to break into trading straight out of undergrad? Also, is algo trading taking over the industry?
The best way is good old fashioned networking. The more people you meet the better chance you have that one of them will help you out. In all seriousness wall street is a world of connections and so the best way to get in is to make friends with everyone. Algo trading is slowly but surely taking over, it is far more efficient and I much prefer to take out as much human error as possible.
How do the traders at BB view proprietary trading firms in general and what is your personal impression on them?
That depends entirely on the firm. There are reputable and respectable firms that people on the street few as almost as good as a bank. Of course no one will ever tell you that it is better....
what are your all time greatest books to read that have helped you really nail concepts you now use and apply every day...?
Beat the Dealer (yes the one from the movie 21), and More Money than God. On an unrelated topic I really enjoyed The Big Short.
To add color to this, MFEs place well (particularly onto options desks) with the caveat that this is generally true for the top programs (which shouldn't be surprising).
What are your outlooks on the upcoming financial regulation and trading within banks compared to prop shops and HF in the future? Will the trading departments at banks continue to be more prestigious and attractive than the alternatives?
Thanks for taking the time to answer questions.
I've recently finished a stint as an analyst in the emerging markets space on the buy side. I have been approached to join a bulge bracket firm in a private wealth role however I have been trying to get on a trading desk as this is where my interest really lies.
Because private wealth is an "all rounder" type role with no real product specialisation is that a disadvantage when trying to break into a trading role? If I couldn't get into a trading role within the next couple of months I was going to take the PWM role and try and network myself onto a trading desk internally after 12 months, is this a good strategy?
I'm in Australia by the way.
Thanks in advance.
Hmm, what sort of arbitrage do you actually do?
Do you have an idea what FI traders get paid on average at every level? I know it varies but on average what is a reasonable range at BB on a desk with decent flow?
Where do you see as the most lucrative area for the next 20 years? Commodities, FI or Currencies?
It's difficult enough to foresee what the most lucrative area will be in the next 1-2 years let alone 20!
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