WASPY- Culture
The culture in my bank/team can be best described as sorta-"WASPY". Without going into too much detail, how to best ... "deal" with it? The guys are pretty nice--- it's just that coming from a more diverse background (including school), I haven't been exposed to this that much before. I know a big part of the FT offer process is based on perceived "fit". To be honest, I'm concerned that despite good quality work and positive attitude, will be dinged because of the "fit" part... and then FT recruiting will be pretty brutal.
any advice appreciated.
Just act like a WASP and fit in, this should help:
http://www.amazon.com/Cheerful-Money-Family-Last-Splendor/dp/0316003174
Best to give us some examples of their behaviour so we fully understand the extent of your situation. I wouldn't worry about any confidentiality issues as WASPs act the same whichever firm they are in.
Enlighten us.
Well, nothing wrong with a WASPY culture but soon itl all change so for now get used to it. I wouldnt necessarily connect it with racism by any means, however, I see your view.
I am NOT in finance, I work in the Airline Business and can tell you that Pilots 20 years ago tended to be WASPY but now fast forward today and you have, Females, Minorities, and non waspy whites scattered in the Business.
Surely, wall street firms represent all global origins or else how would they conduct business, for those who dont, its to their disadvantage not having a diverse work group and may potentially lose business because of such 'culture'
The fact that the other guys are nice and come from a different culture than the author is diversity. I go to school in the deep south my roommate was from a small town in Georgia, I am a Connecticut Yankee, who is WASPy including prep school and a country club membership. I learned about his culture and he about mine. There isn't an issue as long as there is mutual respect. The fact that I'm WASPy doesn't make me a bad person any more than being black, Latino or Asian does. It's clear if this guy is complaining about WASPiness there must be diversity otherwise no one would complain.
I wouldnt worry about it. I have 3 family members who are MD's at MS,Rothschild and Credit Suisse and they never encountered any problems getting there as Pakistani-Americans..
You say they act "WASPy" and yet are very nice. So what if they enjoy lax and were greek?
I feel the same way about being around diversity and aggressive attitudes from the Northeast.
Firms have moved pass the dark days when there was true institutionalized discrimination. Merill Lynch used to be the "Catholic firm". Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, Lazard Freres all used to be "Jewish Firms" and JP Morgan the "WASP Firm". Most people don't think like that anymore. You should try and appreciate their culture and show them some of yours in a respectful manner.
I thought the Catholic Firm was Bear Stearns, haha... I thought Lazard was the waspy one and the rest seem about right...Back in those days ofcourse...
No Lazard is definitely Jewish http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazard_Freres However those walls have come down. Now it's boutique, MM and BB.
Welcome to wall street
don't worry, I'll be there to keep you diverse company. ~_^
get some critter pants and youre golden
It's very simple- get the P part:
http://www.redeemer.com
Honestly, what does WASP even mean anymore in the Northeast? I think the correct term today is White Anglo-Rich-Saxon Humanist (WARSH)
What firm are you at that still has a culture like that? The Wall St of the 80's is LONG gone. I think you might be mistaking "rich wall st guy" culture with WASP culture.
Even Indian's can acquire a taste for golf, Brietling, and La Bernadine.
Seriously, I just don't really there are firms out there with an overtly WASP or discriminatory culture. I think you are mistaking age differences and their preferences which are different from your own as WASPish.
EXACTLY. It is a rich guy culture and has nothing to do with race. You will find it across America, in the upper echelons of corporate America, finance, real estate, et al: Houston, Minneapolis, San Francisco, San Diego, Boston, Miami, Charlotte, Seattle, I don't care where you are, you will find the Thomas Pink shirts, Ferragamo loafers, they go on golf outings, they love fine wine and sophisticated resataurants, they spend a fortune on box seats. Nothing to be scared of.
There's a reason everybody who's old money drives old cars and wears things until they have tears in them- if they drove Ferraris, they wouldn't make it to being old money. So yes, wherever you go, you'll find the Thomas Pink/Ferrari crowd. Wherever you go, you'll also find the more foolish rich people going broke- they often overlap with the Thomas Pinks.
For the old money culture, it's all about chivalry, spending money on the "important things", and carefully guarding wealth. IMHO, it's a much healthier- and more sustainable- approach to wealth than the new money approach.
being wealthy and not enjoying your money sounds awfully boring, especially if you're young and single.
For the old money (or "smart" money, as I like to call them), they enjoy the perks of having $100 mil in net worth; they're just careful to make it last. I think most people would rather spend 60 years living on $5 million/year rather than 10 years living on $20 million and the rest on $50K and social security.
There are things to dislike about the old rich, too- the emphasis on pedigree rather than the egalitarian ethos of the American middle class- and the notion that wealth sometimes provides more comfort and security than healthy relationships and straightforward living. But you have to respect the fact that they've perfected the art of respecting wealth and making rappers look small and insecure.
Yep. Besides, who gives a shit? Most of those people are not that rich compared to the newly rich.
Furthermore, and not to sound arrogant, but I know a good bit about this stuff and the characteristics that guy is talking about are more of a stereotype of inherited money and are not necessarily the truth. It is not true that "everybody who's old money drives old cars." There are blue-blood types who drive new BMWs, believe it or not. Shit, speaking of lake Michigan, the Ford family has a huge huge power yacht on a lake somewhere out there. On a pretty small lake that is mostly populated by little sailboats. I think they had the YMCA torn down so they could fit their dock and oversized yacht in there. Oh, and they ride around in armored/bulletproof cars. How's that for your so-called understated, old-fashioned, inherited money?
He didn't even quite nail the stereotypes correctly - ideally, that old station wagon would be dusty and dented, not meticulously maintained.
Correction--this should have been in response to the longer post above this post. Good post. WASP culture is really reflected in thrift, no conspicuous consumption, and practicality, etc. I wonder if all this WASP crap about Wall Street is just about a bunch of fake WASPs. I don't think a WASP would waste money on an Audi, Mercedes, etc. An American car would be just as good at a lot lower price (and a WASP would factor in the much-lower maintenance and parts costs of American cars).
Exactly here in Cleveland.
I agree with someotherguy above. I'd say you're fortunate to be surrounded by such people. With so many motivated Indian and Chinese/Korean workers on Wall Street today, I feel WASPs should be protected as though they were rare species.
wasn't this a topic two months ago... except with PE?
I'm from CT, there was always a divide between old money and new. The irony is I remember the nouveau riche would always drive better cars, be flashier dressers. I also remember that there were never any at the country club or the prep school I attended. The difference between old and new was that the old money folk were truly obsessed with intergenerational wealth. One girl who was astoundingly wealth with a family net worth well in the hundreds of millions drove around in a Saab 93 wagon, her father had bought used and wore aeropostale. The nouveaus I knew drove flashy cars and dressed in the latest from Neiman's and custom couture. I agree with IlliniProgrammer, the truth is that intergenerational wealth is the most important. I come from the older end of this spectrum, the car I'm buying is nice albeit used. I never pay full price for clothes and I don't own an iPad. Why? It's not a question of affording them, it's just foolish to buy them. I've noticed with a lot of financial types massive incomes and equally massive burn rates. If you're making more than you need to live frugally squirrel it away. I've always found it someone shocking at how bad the personal finances of some bankers I knew were i.e. foreclosures and repos. Avoid that at all costs. Also be careful with credit. I can't urge this often enough. Used wisely it can be a great deal, however a CC doesn't equal free money.
Always amusing to realize how little actual cash many "old money" really has.
The wealthiest guys in Manhattan are all new money. I am certainly proud of being nouveau and wouldn't have it any other way.
I grew up "nouveau riche" and will continue to live my nouveau riche" lifestyle, thank you very much.
And "WASPs" are so 1950 and are now absolutely irrelevant (and usually poor)
Back to the original question, I understand where you're coming from. I grew up in a black community, went to majority black schools until high school (which was 70% latino, 20% black, 10% white), and went to a historically black university. Needless to say, I was in for a serious culture shock once I started to work in corporate America. You just have to find a way to fit in on a professional level, connect on your common interests, and downplay differences if you think they might be a point of contention.
Not trying to be stereotypical, but I listen to gangsta rap, drink hennessey, and go to the grimiest strip clubs. I also like to fuck hoodrats with big asses, wear Air Jordans and Timberlands, and do a whole bunch of other stuff attributed to urban black male. But I don't highlight that in the office. I also enjoy a couple beers after work, follow all major sports, invest in the stock market, and engage in the occasional golf game. Point is, I don't talk about golf and the stock market with my old friends, and I don't talk about hoodrats and the latest Rick Ross album with my work buddies. You just have to connect on common interests and you should be good.
I guess I'm old money since I drive an 1985 Audi 4000s and before that an old Saab 900.
My roommate freshman year was absolutely loaded because his grandfather had made a total fortune. But rather than preserve it he donated most of it to Jewish organizations and left his dad with a reasonable amount and an excellent education. This kids father told him don't expect much at all because he plans to enjoy himself and spend his money while he's here kicking it on earth.
To me, that seems pretty respectable. I think people don't deserve wealth if they don't earn it. Starting your kids off with an excellent education, giving them the means to be successful is more than enough. Maintaining an intergenerational fortune is some fucked up egoistic legacy building garbage. I
That being said, I don't go in for the flashy shit. But fuck man, I'd rather be Jay-z than some thrifty old money dude.
You guys are unbelievably retarded. Btw Warren Buffett is "new money." The "new money"/ "old money" behavioural distinctions here are retarded.
Yes, everyone who spends their money is "new money."
And everyone who chooses to spend their wealth instead of saving (a philosophical choice...) can't invest.
YEAH MAN! OLD MONEY IS SO COOL!
Yeah, but Warren Buffet qualifies as old money. Note the lack of conspicuous consumption and insecurity about relative wealth. Also, he's been "money" for fifty years, so he probably does qualify as old money at this point even by the "pedigree" crowd.
Old money vs. new money is an attitude, not a status/pedigree. One of the questions I always ask people is "Do you have money, or does money have you?"
No, you're completely incorrectly defining those who do not engage in conspicuous consumption as old money, which as I've a number of times pointed out, is completely retarded.
http://www.fool.com/specials/1999/sp990824buffet2.htm
The fact is that if you grow up around responsible money management, you get inducted into the whole old-money culture. You learn to make sure that money stays something that you have- rather than something that has you. Buffett, at the very least, has done a very effective job of this.
If Warren Buffet is old money then Paul McCartney is old money.
I can't wait for Vanilla Ice to be old money.
Old money is an attitude about money more than anything else. I don't think McCartney really has it unless you can honestly say that he owns his stuff but his stuff doesn't own him. In which case, he'd probably be old money, too.
Ok, maye I picked a bad example, but the point I was trying to make is that having money for 40-50 years doesn't make you "Old Money". I think the fortune had to be made pre Great Depression to be considered old money.
Ok, what about Sergey Brin and Larry Page? Neither from an upper-middle class background, neither really known for conspicuous consumption.
Wow, I've found as many counter examples as you provided examples.
Hmm, now let's think of people with generational wealth who squander it in disgusting ways. Donald Trump.
Wow, that was tough.
You're retarded if you don't think the door swings both ways.
"old money" is not an attitude. Now stop fawning over your classmate with the 1950s Rolls Royce.
What you find is that most old money takes a healthier and more sustainable attitude about wealth. Reason being is that they learned it from their parents, who managed to preserve it for them. You find more geeky programmers because programmers can afford to be geeky (they have less competition from well-adjusted people when it comes to enjoying talking with machines all day long.)
Stop fawning over exceptions to the rule rather than the general trend. I simply have respect for a lack of insecurity about money. You find that significantly less with old money than you do with rap stars and new money that feels it needs to prove itself.I don't respect old money for being old money; I respect it for not feeling insecure and needing to make conspicuous displays of consumption to prove itself.
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