Weekend Wars: Search Function vs. Work Function

Dear Monkeys,

I am sorely disappointed in you...Well, not really. I don't care all that much. But I haven't ripped anybody a new one in a while and I do feel like hurling a few gentle insults while dispensing some useful advice to those who are willing to take it.

Join me on a journey, together we shall explore...

The Magical...The Mysterious...The Majestic

The Search Function!!!

You see guys, the search function here on Wall Street Oasis (once upon a time), was indeed a tedious tool. Too many pages, too much irrelevant info, too hard to sort. But now, it works pretty darn well. I suggest you use it... until you find what you are looking for.

This has apparently gone over the heads of many of you who didn't realize that this post
applied to you.

Instead of chastising, I will try to point out something you guys may not be thinking about. Though I have said it before, let me say it again:

No idea's original, there's nothing new under the sun...it's never what you do, but how it's done.

The vast majority of the questions asked on a daily basis, can be searched. No your situation is not that unique!

Somebody has already asked that exact question. Likely within the last week or two.

It isn't that I don't enjoy answering whether you should wear a suit to a networking event instead of sweats and flip flops or how you can shortcut your way into PE after a 1.8 GPA your freshman year and no financial industry experience...but...

There is another side to this...

Real World Implications

If you can't find what you're looking for when it is right there waiting for you...how can you be counted upon to perform difficult tasks, while working long hours in a demanding environment?

Yes, I know. You're excited and you're anxious. You're young, dumb and full of... well you really want to get in the game, I understand.

However...

Banking, portfolio management, equity research or any of the plethora of gigs you may land in finance all require attention to detail, not to mention the patience to scour through tons of information.

If you're not competent enough to go through a few dozen or even a few hundred posts, why are you then competent enough to land a high paying job that every other monkey out there would trade their tail for?

Understand this, there is a sea of people out there just like you. They all want the same thing and the winners...

Know how to use the search function!

This is not just a WSO thing for you mechanically minded monkeys, this concept is meant to be taken and applied to all of your life's affairs and activities.

There is a virtual ton of info and resources at your disposal.

Use them.

There is no quicker way to look like a fool than to ask a question which was answered yesterday, while claiming it is unique and special today.

For those of you banging your head against the wall about networking failures and unreturned phone calls/emails, perhaps it is time to look in the mirror...

and do some homework before showing up to the test.

That's what every interaction in the adult world is kiddies.

A test.

When you don't use the literal and metaphoric search functions available to you...you wind up looking stupid, when in fact...

You're just being lazy and feeling entitled.

Get over yourself.

Work harder...

That is how you'll get hired...that is how you will thrive...that is how you will survive.

 

Good post Midas, but I think we both know that it won't change anything

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
 

I completely agree with you.

MY BIGGEST ISSUE IS: There are a million sources of information, the question is which ones have the highest quality content, which ones have less bullshit, which ones have no bullshit??? 90% of people are stupid. It's a fact of life I've learned to live with. It's ok that they are stupid, and we should love them anyway, but I dont want to take advice from stupid unsuccessful people. Successful people don't sit around and blog about their trades. Where do I get pointed questions answered?

One thing which pisses me off about Google is that there is a move going on where information is becoming less available and not indexed. Recently companies have started to simply write DRM letters directly to Google and get results stripped. Likewise, many good sources of information purposely do not index in Google now because they realize that they can charge and safeguard their sources. It really blows man, and its only recently I've had problems finding information because of this.

Also there is an orgy of piracy that might come from ereaders and cause a pull back towards pay-for information or poorer quality, but that's a separate issue.

Thoughts?

 
ikicker:
I completely agree with you.

MY BIGGEST ISSUE IS: There are a million sources of information, the question is which ones have the highest quality content, which ones have less bullshit, which ones have no bullshit??? 90% of people are stupid. It's a fact of life I've learned to live with. It's ok that they are stupid, and we should love them anyway, but I dont want to take advice from stupid unsuccessful people. Successful people don't sit around and blog about their trades. Where do I get pointed questions answered?

Trial and error. It worked for 50,000 years of human evolution it can work for you. The notion that there is some all encompassing perfect source of information is FUCKING STUPID. If you have a grain of brain you will easily differentiate the advice of a BB MD from that of a JUCO flunkout. I get that you want access to the best info, but unless you are willing to pay for it, you need to acquire the skills to ascertain information and decipher its validity.

ikicker:
One thing which pisses me off about Google is that there is a move going on where information is becoming less available and not indexed. Recently companies have started to simply write DRM letters directly to Google and get results stripped. Likewise, many good sources of information purposely do not index in Google now because they realize that they can charge and safeguard their sources. It really blows man, and its only recently I've had problems finding information because of this.

Fuck Google. Along with Facebook the most intellectually sapping mechanism of our times. If you are a person who values knowledge, you must learn that hard work IS the reward. It is only through putting in the effort to understand something that you can reach the point of actually mastering said topic. Dropping in search terms and getting an instant download of what may be a month, a year or a decade worth of study isn't the answer because you ultimately miss out on the important part which is actually busting your ass to get to the juicy information.

As for individuals and entities wanting to make you pay for their expertise and knowledge, that's just in line with everything that is (hopefully) beginning to happen around us...i.e. the end of the free lunch world.

Expecting Google to shit out the best information for free is like expecting life to give you everything on a platter without you ever working for it. Everything in life has a price. Problem is that a lot of you guys (not intended at you personally; general statement) just don't get that nowadays.

ikicker:
Also there is an orgy of piracy that might come from ereaders and cause a pull back towards pay-for information or poorer quality, but that's a separate issue.

Thoughts?

I think "pay for information" is the only way to go, period. In every regard. The notion of "free information", much like "free love", "free money" or "free anything" for that matter is a whole sale fantasy. Just my two bits.

 
Midas Mulligan Magoo:

Trial and error. It worked for 50,000 years of human evolution it can work for you. The notion that there is some all encompassing perfect source of information is FUCKING STUPID. If you have a grain of brain you will easily differentiate the advice of a BB MD from that of a JUCO flunkout. I get that you want access to the best info, but unless you are willing to pay for it, you need to acquire the skills to ascertain information and decipher its validity.

I've seen people at work waste thousands of hours of work doing somethings I already had code to do, just because they didn't ask. That's a lot of your life gone. Ego and pride are progress killers. Trading and favors are soooo important and can multiply your work power ten fold if you do it right.

 

Great post, as someone with a couple of years of experience under my belt, I hate it when I see posts that ask the same searchable questions. To add on the MMM, in the real world you ask questions as a measure of last resort. Asking questions that you could have answered on your own with a little initiative will but you on the fast track for bottom bucket.

 

I sometimes post that people should use the search function, but after using it myself a few times, I've realized that it's very inefficient. Reason being that most people don't bother to tag their threads when they post, so a lot of relevant threads don't show up in a search. I think there should be some stronger emphasis on tagging for search to make sense or a structural change in the search algorithm.

 

btw, for all you prospective monkeys dreaming with "high finance" dreams, as an IB analyst on any given day anywhere from 65-99% of your time will be spent searching for information on google.

So if you can't even find information that already exists on here without asking, you'd better just give up now.

 

blame the moderators/site managers. most forums have the same problem, but thanks to stickies and proper forum organization all the information can easily be found.. thus eliminating the daily "what offer should i take?" threads..

why isn't this done on WSO? because sales of WSO guides, interview preps, etc would crash if all that useful information were made easily and conveniently available. a good well designed site isn't good for business.. so don't blame us. blame patrick.

 
Best Response
cybernick:
blame the moderators/site managers. most forums have the same problem, but thanks to stickies and proper forum organization all the information can easily be found.. thus eliminating the daily "what offer should i take?" threads..

why isn't this done on WSO? because sales of WSO guides, interview preps, etc would crash if all that useful information were made easily and conveniently available. a good well designed site isn't good for business.. so don't blame us. blame patrick.

Congratulations, you just made yourself look like an idiot on a thread that completely went over your head. This type of self entitlement is EXACTLY what Midas is talking about. You are so quick to put the onus on other people to provide you with the information you seek. NO ONE ON THIS FORUM OWES YOU A THING! If you want the answers, then do the work to find them. There are dozens of Certified Users with industry experience on here who graciously take time out to answer questions so college kids don't make asses of themselves in important situations, but you can't treat them like your personal Genie in a bottle. There is an overwhelming trend on this forum that users, like Midas in this case, have addressed in a selfless manner trying to provide you with the perspective you need to realize the unnecessary nature of your questions. You are not the only kid with a 3.0 from a non target. Your situation is no different than any other kid that made it happen. The sad part is that I see all these questions every day and you can literally Google the answer in 3 seconds (granted Midas, much of the impactful experience is lost when you don't have to put in much time to find the answer but better Google than an endless stream of duplicate posts on this forum).

The bottom line is that some of the kids out there need to realize that the only thing keeping them from getting offers is their attitude. There is a pervasive wave of self-entitlement and elitism out there for a lot of you who in all fairness have not done a whole lot. A perfect example of this is the guy earlier on this thread who said "90% of people are stupid, and that's not a big deal we should love them anyway." That is a terrible attitude to have. You may think that you are something brilliant and that no one out there can possibly no more about finance than you, and you may be right... but even if you are, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT EVERYONE WILL WANT TO WORK WITH YOU. Be humble... learn from others... don't be afraid to ask questions... but ask the RIGHT Questions.

You need to take a look in the mirror before you go out there and bad mouth someone who has done a great job providing a community where you have an opportunity to even come ask industry professionals if you should wear your Ray Bans in the interview along with your diamond stud earrings and pink shirt (or whatever it is that pertains to you and only you that has never been asked before).

Midas, SB for you for addressing something that needed to be addressed, even though you already brought it up in your previous post. I hope for their sake some of these kids learn some humility, and the important skill of deferring to those wiser than they...

 
cybernick:
blame the moderators/site managers. most forums have the same problem, but thanks to stickies and proper forum organization all the information can easily be found.. thus eliminating the daily "what offer should i take?" threads..

why isn't this done on WSO? because sales of WSO guides, interview preps, etc would crash if all that useful information were made easily and conveniently available. a good well designed site isn't good for business.. so don't blame us. blame patrick.

A few questions

1 how do you define "easily and conveniently available"?

2 how would you revamp the design to improve the search for information?

3 how would having a "better" forum organization stop the "what offer should I take?" threads that are usually very specific to each unique person? I think that is very wishful thinking....

We have close to 400,000 pieces of content so it is not as easy as it may sound. We also have been discussing at length a way to have a more general / robust FAQ section so we get less repetitive posts - or at the very least regular users have pages that they can point new users to when they ask a repetitive question. I doubt this will ever go away but we can try to get better and that is what we are doing.

And another thing, the site does not depend on the sale of our interview guides...it is one of ~7 sources of revenue, so nothing would "crash" if we were able to make the site organized better and we sold a few less guides as a result.

I think everyone knows here that we don't mind constructive criticism, so I'd hope you would share your opinion with the community on how you would design the site so we can have a good discussion on it in the Site Suggestions forum.

Thanks, Patrick

 

I don't think that searching for stuff on this site is comparable with the work ethic of working an IB job... the big difference is you're getting paid to do the IB stuff.

Would you take some dbag yelling at you every day for some (enough) money? Yes. Would you do that outside of a job for free? No.

The search function isn't perfect though either and not every situation is gonna be exactly the same, so I can see why people would ask more specific questions.

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough. "There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.
 

my point was never that these college kids deserve to be spoonfed.. rather that the frustration with these daily and repeated posts about the most trivial of problems can be easily solved with the simplest of forum traditions.. and the forum administrators have to shoulder some of the blame for that.. this forum is paid for by advertising (including f*cking infolinks) and the sales of career guides.. the users here directly/indirectly pay for the existence of this tiny community and should demand proper management in exchange..

I am as sick of seeing these daily threads from college kids as much as anyone else.. they take away from the really interesting or worthwhile conversations that would otherwise take their place.. and yes their attitudes need to change and improve.. but thats not going to change even if midas goes on these rants every recruiting season. if crime were rampant would you write an open letter to criminals to stop? or would you demand that lawmakers to whom you pay taxes police the situation?

 
cybernick:
my point was never that these college kids deserve to be spoonfed.. rather that the frustration with these daily and repeated posts about the most trivial of problems can be easily solved with the simplest of forum traditions.. and the forum administrators have to shoulder some of the blame for that.. this forum is paid for by advertising (including f*cking infolinks) and the sales of career guides.. the users here directly/indirectly pay for the existence of this tiny community and should demand proper management in exchange..

I am as sick of seeing these daily threads from college kids as much as anyone else.. they take away from the really interesting or worthwhile conversations that would otherwise take their place.. and yes their attitudes need to change and improve.. but thats not going to change even if midas goes on these rants every recruiting season. if crime were rampant would you write an open letter to criminals to stop? or would you demand that lawmakers to whom you pay taxes police the situation?

Few points 1) Its not as though these 'constantly daily posts' or whatever you called them take away from conversations that could take place, you could still easily have those discussions. 2) Not trying to be a dick here, but its not as though you seem to contribute a huge amount to the forum on a regular basis (judging this solely on your nanner points). 3) This forum isn't just for people in the industry to talk about high finance, its just as much, if not more so, for college kids to get their questions answered.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 

The one thing really annoying about the search function is the inability to see the newest topics first. I have to skip to page 3 before I see something that was posted in January of 2011 about a topic.

For certain topics, this is really crucial. For example, if I have a question about the outlook of ABS / MBS jobs, it makes a big difference whether i read a post from 2006 or 2010

 
Defect:
The one thing really annoying about the search function is the inability to see the newest topics first. I have to skip to page 3 before I see something that was posted in January of 2011 about a topic.

For certain topics, this is really crucial. For example, if I have a question about the outlook of ABS / MBS jobs, it makes a big difference whether i read a post from 2006 or 2010

do you not see the filters in the right column? sorry I've been delinquent to post here. I'll address some other comments in here (regarding site organization, etc.) tomorrow.

 

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Ratione eligendi fugit sunt. Ipsum excepturi dignissimos omnis enim possimus aut. Tenetur sed provident non consequatur possimus placeat perspiciatis.

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough. "There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.

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