Wells Fargo Securities vs UBS vs Houlihan Lokey
I have FT offers from all three banks. All three are for NY and in IBanking. My goal is to some day go into PE. I would really appreciate some help deciding which bank to go with.
I have FT offers from all three banks. All three are for NY and in IBanking. My goal is to some day go into PE. I would really appreciate some help deciding which bank to go with.
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Stay away from UBS. I have some friends in the M&A and S&T groups and they've aged considerably in the past few years. There is no job security and they have no idea what their all-in compensation will be.
HL
dpends on the groups. but dont even consider WF if you have HL and UBS
UBS
It really depends on what you want to do. If you're into restructuring Houlihan, if you're into CMBS WF, if you're into layoffs, UBS.
If it's Hokey Pokey Restructuring, go with that. Otherwise, go with UBS. It's the only one of the three that is a legit BB. Worked at HL Corporate Finance (CF) non-New York office, and regularly talked to the NY group - they worked their nuts off (hours were awful), deals didn't seem that interesting (to me), and HL CF pays below street - guaranteed. From what I know, UBS paid street this past year and, more importantly for achieving PE, headhunters will give you love which wasn't necessarily the case at Houli Roo (and probably not Wellsio either). Kids from HL CF made it to PE, but it was certainly not common and they had to work significantly harder to get interviews.
At the end of the day, just do what you believe will give you the best opportunity to make it to PE.
holligan lokey
I thought UBS was in a hiring freeze, is this an offer from S.A stint?
UBS if you are in a decent group
UBS still, no competition (Houlihan? Wells Fargo? lol)... and it would be nice if you could get into M&A or levfin sponsors
Despite all the Kengeter shenanigans, analysts are still placing well (top group sent analysts to Cerberus and TPG this last year)
Obligatory: UBS sucks
you cant use past placements to make your decision. a lot has happened since then and a lot more will go down before you start in a year
ex: ubs fslf used to have amazing placement but is now doing next to nothing and who knows what layoffs are going to go down now that the chairman is committed to "de-risking" the bank, whatever that means
if this is HL restructuring, .absolutely take that. if not, it all comes down to how much risk you are willing to take and what your views are on ubs and the economy as a whole
UBS has been bleeding dry for the past few years, and job security is sketchy, but it's still a bulge bracket investment bank. Barring a comparison to the UBS-LA-Moelis days, UBS analysts are still placing at the top places.
You work with Houlihan and you may get a great experience in restructuring (personally think it's a softer skill set than M&A, but that's another story), but you won't get as much exposure on high-profile deals and your exit opportunities will suffer.
Investment banking is attractive simply because the skillset you build is so broad. At HL you won't have a capital markets platform. Secondly, if international mobility is something that you're interested in, UBS would offer you a much better platform and network.
ubs is barely a bb these days in the us
You can't make this decision based on historical exit ops. This guy's going to be recruiting for buyside in spring of 2013. UBS will be a far different bank than it was when these last few classes went through the process. I can only speak for lev fin and sponsors since that's where I work, but UBS is basically dead in that space and that was always one of their top groups as far as buyside placements.
hl restructuring hands down if you have that choice
UBS LevFin hasn't been the same since Chris Abbate left, and LevFin was one of their better groups.
They're fucking advising on YHOO (ironic, two former industry-leading giants now struggling) in arguably the most interesting deal in ANY space right now. It's not like they're just going to disappear over the next two years, even though the situation is tenuous. UBS' reputation may have fallen off a cliff but they're still actively hiring senior bankers and have made it clear that they won't be shutting down the investment bank.
God I feel like a damn Jefferies and UBS cheerleader in my last few posts but I cannot belabor this point enough... there are just so many benefits to starting off your career at a larger bank. Maybe I'm just biased towards bulge brackets
Original poster:
The decision comes down to UBS and Houlihan Lokey, imo. The key determinant is: 1.) Did you complete a summer internship at UBS? and 2.) What group will you be at UBS?
A combination of a soft market and continued firm uncertainty will mean more future layoffs at and poached senior bankers from UBS. If you interned there and/or have existing strong relationships, it will protect you from the downside risk of being laid off. Secondly, powerful senior bankers dictate the quality of your analyst experience. You need to make sure that you are joining a steady group whose senior bankers won't leave anytime soon and/or just joined UBS. If you join a group whose senior bankers leave within a year or two, you won't build up enough significant deal exposure to make you a convincing candidate for PE firms.
These are two major factors, imo.
this is a new york offer so yahoo is pretty irrelevant. That mandate is a combo of asia and SF, mostly asia. UBS was primarily hired to advise on the asian side of the business while allen leads the process. UBS is still very strong abroad.
They're also on HP/autonomy but again, not new york.
and finally, while the bank will still exist, who knows in what form and how deep the layoffs will be: "In the future, the Investment Bank will be less complex, carry less risk and use less capital", from the board statement this morning
that being said, this whole conversation changes if you dont actually have an offer for hl restructuring as your other options are mediocre enough that it might be worth taking the risk on ubs depending on group placement, whether you interned there, etc.
Disregarding the division of labor, the point was that UBS is still taking down big mandates and that YHOO and HP continue to call on them
Fundamentally I don't think the statement changes anything--regulatory pressure, Kweku, etc... and now Gruebel's ouster. They couldn't have issued a statement other than "we fucked up."
Dudes, dudes, as someone who started his career at HL and recently left for a BB, this isn't a tough decision despite the whackiness befalling U(r) B(onus) S(ucks) these days. Based on my experience so far, working at a BB is far superior to working at a MM shop (Houlihan Jokey/Wellsio Fargio). Despite what the brahs above might say, UBS is still a BB with a global platform and a legit capital markets arm (something the Houlihan Pokey and WF don't have) which will lead to more interesting deals you'd never get at the Hokey Pokes MM shops. If it's HL Restructuring, the decision may be more contentious, but if not, do yourself a favor and go to Ubes.
Thanks for all the posts, this has been very informative. I did my SA stint at UBS. After talking with a 2nd year analyst, I have decided to turn down the FT offer to UBS. I am now deciding between Wells and HL...Does anyone have any information on Wells Fargo?
Wow. What'd the 2nd year tell you that we don't know?
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