Wharton (no $) versus Tepper (full $)

I know the topic of Wharton versus Tepper may seem ludicrous to many on this forum, however I'm in the midst of a true dilemma.

I just now, as I'm about to start pre-term at Tepper, received admission to Wharton. I already moved into my Pittsburgh apartment and gotten acquainted with the surroundings, which I love.

Carnegie Mellon is a great school and Tepper is a wonderful program. I love the people and think that I would do very well upon graduation. The $110,000 scholarship they offered is very important for me financially.

One aspect of Tepper that I struggle with is that there is nothing for Real Estate and there is a strong focus on job search all the time, to the point that recruiters arrive on campus during the first week of classes.

Prestige is very important for me; however, I have come to appreciate the humility and modesty of the Carnegie Mellon community. I have literally fallen in love with the school, faculty and fellow students.

My goal is to do mission-driven private equity or sustainable real estate investing. My job search goal upon graduation is bulge bracket investment banking, perhaps in Hong Kong and ideally at Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley.

For me it is key that my MBA give me a strong brand association for the rest of my life. With the new dean, new curriculum and soon new building, Tepper is rapidly rising. Wharton seems to be stalling or even lagging, however I realize that Tepper is unlikely to ever catch up.

So... I would have to disappoint a whole bunch of people, break my lease, get into massive debt, move to Philly, find a place, and get acquainted with a new school (I don't really understand the culture at Wharton either).

Anybody have useful advice? Please keep your posts respectful and relevant.

 

I'm going to give you a very direct answer before the usual suspects chime in and give you the heavyweight punches (several will be in favor of each option).

Wharton. You say you're a bit bummed about Tepper's shortcomings in Real Estate, yet Wharton is renowned globally for its Real Estate Finance program. You say you're interested in PE, yet you're hesitant about enrolling in a school that punches at and beyond its weight in terms of PE placement year after year -- it is the school for PE out of the almighty HSW.

Yes, it will suck logistically to break the lease, figure out the move, and commit to a new school, but much of what you say (except the financial part) seems to revolve around simple fear of the unknown. You aren't familiar with Philly, are apprehensive of the culture at Wharton, and are loath to leave a place you feel comfortable in. However, you don't know that you won't adjust just as quickly to the pace at Wharton -- it may turn out to be just as warm, collegial, and intellectual as you find Tepper ... or better.

An MBA is your last shot at formal education to differentiate yourself in your professional career. I think the last thing you'd want is 5, 10, or even 20 years down the road wind up kicking yourself in the shin for not taking the chance to go to a program that perfectly matched your interests, could have provided you with every personal and professional opportunity you identified after introspection, and given you the brand association and network that is so crucial to reaching the next level in your career.

Regardless of your decision, I truly wish you the best. It's a "champagne problem," so to speak; dollars at a strong mid-tier program vs. an open seat at a premiere program. Were I in your shoes (no interest in real estate at all however, hard to extrapolate), I'd be leaning towards uprooting, but that ultimately comes down to your risk aversion. Good luck.

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 

I can only judge based on a family member who chose law school in such a fashion and have to say you would be fine with CMU as long as you're not a prestige whore. Your job outlook shouldn't be too badly hindered in reality if you do well at Tepper it is T25 and I dont think even Wharton is worth 200,000 dollars in debt compared with CMU.

The family member who I know chose a lower ranked law school with less debt and still found the job they were looking for after graduation so from my perspective I really couldn't see how someone could advocate that wharton cost. I might even struggle with a UF full ride vs wharton no aid decision. 200k debt is ridiculous take CMU no question in my opinion.

 
Best Response

That is a pretty interesting situation, and I'm in a similar one myself so I can relate to the struggle.

110k is a ton of money. That is just a fact. Have you tried to get money from wharton by leveraging your scholarship?

Wharton is without a doubt not even in the same league as Tepper. It is Wharton. But 100k is a lot of money. If you want PE, I would ask yourself will you be competitive as a PE candidate. If you pass on Tepper for Wharton and don't end up in PE will you regret your decision. While without a doubt Wharton is the school for PE, its still super competitive and a ton of your classmates will have already worked at some of the premier funds, or just funds in general. Even given the opportunity will you complete?

If you honestly think that you will be a competitive candidate and are willing to suck up the debt than do Wharton. If you aren't as sure with your career goals being debt free will provide you with a hell of a lot more flexibly and freedom. I think this is a really tough decision.

All that said. I would advise on thinking about short term stuff such as breaking leases, meeting people, knowing the area. Those are all minor issues. Make your decision based on the big picture.

Good luck.

 
zildjian:
I already moved into my Pittsburgh apartment and gotten acquainted with the surroundings, which I love.

I find this part a bit confusing, because if it were me, I would consider such fact irrelevant in making the decision.

OP, my question to you is, would you be in a similar "true dilemma" if the situation was the other way around? Imagine, for instance, you decided to go to Wharton, you already moved into your Philadelphia apartment and gotten acquainted with the surroundings, which you love, etc. etc., and literally fallen in love with Wharton, then all of a sudden, Tepper offers admission with $110k scholarship. Would you be able to decide what to do? If so, what would you do?

Just something to think about.

Personally, I'd go with Wharton, but that's just me.

 
SECfinance:
If you are apprehensive about the Wharton culture, why on Earth do you want to do BB IB?
Whoever said he will want that in two years? He could easily wind up at a Chicago insurance company running their CPI-adjusted annuity portfolio making $200K/year for 35 hours/week a few years in.

This is a very New York banking centric forum. That's the last thing to mention. People here assume you have an 80% chance of going into banking.

But the fact is that banking is a dying industry. Take it from me; I work in it. Industries rise and fall over two years and people change their minds. The most important thing right now is that education is in a bubble, it will probably be harder to earn money in two years than it is today, and you don't want to have lots of debt. Wharton is still a good choice if you're a gambler who is willing to work hard. Me? I'd rather have an extra $110K in the bank and a Tepper degree on my resume. Actuaries will probably be laughing at banker pay in five years anyways, and the Hartford Group will probably be a top choice employer for HBS grads.

 
IlliniProgrammer:
SECfinance:
If you are apprehensive about the Wharton culture, why on Earth do you want to do BB IB?
Whoever said he will want that in two years? He could easily wind up at a Chicago insurance company running their CPI-adjusted annuity portfolio making $200K/year for 35 hours/week a few years in.

Of course he could, but generally speaking one attends their MBA school with a goal in mind. OP has said that right now he wants BB IB, and I was commenting that wanting BB IB and worrying about Wharton's culture seem to be incongruous thoughts.

MM IB -> Corporate Development -> Strategic Finance
 

You can go either way, but CMU is the decision I would have made. $110K is a lot of money and CMU is an excellent school.

CMU's MBA is best cut out for more technical roles- either in technology or risk management.

My required IRR on a graduate degree is 15% CPI-adjusted. There's a lot that can happen to cut careers short and the expectation of an MBA is that you will work for the next 20 years at 60-70 hours/week. So at a 15% IRR, that's $17K/year more in earnings to go to Wharton. I'm not sure you'll necessarily make that, and even if you do, you'll have to earn more like a $25K/year (AFTER TAX- so more like a $45K/year difference) difference to pay it all off.

The bottom line is that you are making a trade-off here. You are trading extra money for a better lifestyle, more sleep, and probably a few years of less aging ultimately to be tacked on to your life expectancy- so you'll make some of the lower earnings back on more compounding before you feel 70.

A lot of people don't take that into account. The foolish people look at prestige. The wiser people start to look at placement rates and graduate pay at one year and ten years. But I think to be really wise in evaluating this, you have to ask yourself "Am I ready to work 60 hours/week for the next 25 years?" If the answer is "no", you have to start moving that IRR up and graduate school and MBAs become a little less valuable.

So my choice would be Tepper. But it is your decision. On these cost vs. "prestige" decisions, though, one important thing to look at that many people leave out is "how much am I willing to work for the next 30 years?" If the answer is "I'm thirty and I'm already feeling worn out," that should make you become less inclined to spend money or borrow to pay for school.

 
Going Concern:
IlliniProgrammer:
CMU's MBA is best cut out for more technical roles- either in technology or risk management.

The OP's post says he's interested in private equity, real estate and brand, not technical roles

Two years is a long time. Both for the markets and for an individual. OP has no clue what he will want to do or what opportunities the markets will offer. This is the curse of living in interesting times. Relative to the '80s, you can't see your hand in front of your face when trying to make economic forecasts.

One thing that's clear is that OP will probably be able to land back in his old role in the worst case. If OP just needs a two year vacation, Tepper is a good excuse and it's free.

 
IlliniProgrammer:
... But I think to be really wise in evaluating this, you have to ask yourself "Am I ready to work 60 hours/week for the next 25 years?" If the answer is "no", you have to start moving that IRR up and graduate school and MBAs become a little less valuable....
You're in America, do you have an alternative to working 60 hrs/wk for 25 years and still having a decent lifestyle? I'm curious.

To the OP: I think you should go for Wharton if you're serious about and committed to IB or real estate in Hong Kong. Outside of the US most people don't even know CMU has a business school. However, if you want to stay in the US, then you really do face a tough choice.

Note: be prepared for white collar wage slavery for a few years, if you do choose Wharton.

There is a caveat, we don't know your circumstances, background, values or what kind of lifestyle you want, so all of our advice should be taken with a grain of salt.

 
Relinquis:
IlliniProgrammer:
... But I think to be really wise in evaluating this, you have to ask yourself "Am I ready to work 60 hours/week for the next 25 years?" If the answer is "no", you have to start moving that IRR up and graduate school and MBAs become a little less valuable....
You're in America, do you have an alternative to working 60 hrs/wk for 25 years and still having a decent lifestyle? I'm curious.

To the OP: I think you should go for Wharton if you're serious about and committed to IB or real estate in Hong Kong. Outside of the US most people don't even know CMU has a business school. However, if you want to stay in the US, then you really do face a tough choice.

Note: be prepared for white collar wage slavery for a few years, if you do choose Wharton.

There is a caveat, we don't know your circumstances, background, values or what kind of lifestyle you want, so all of our advice should be taken with a grain of salt.

If you're an engineer, programmer, actuary, CPA, or work in corp finance, absolutely. If you have a top ~15 MBA with no debt, absolutely.
 
IlliniProgrammer:
My required IRR on a graduate degree is 15% CPI-adjusted. There's a lot that can happen to cut careers short and the expectation of an MBA is that you will work for the next 20 years at 60-70 hours/week. So at a 15% IRR, that's $17K/year more in earnings to go to Wharton. I'm not sure you'll necessarily make that, and even if you do, you'll have to earn more like a $25K/year (AFTER TAX- so more like a $45K/year difference) difference to pay it all off.

Even just looking at the numbers you present, I think the probability of earning 17k/year more with a Wharton MBA is very high. Also, 110k could be 1-2 yrs bonus from your first job out of the MBA program. And the network and cachet from the wharton name create a lot more growth potential in earnings.

 
Going Concern:

Even just looking at the numbers you present, I think the probability of earning 17k/year more with a Wharton MBA is very high. Also, 110k could be 1-2 yrs bonus from your first job out of the MBA program. And the network and cachet from the wharton name create a lot more growth potential in earnings.

Of course. Or you could go out and buy a few thousand lottery tickets with the money you save on Tepper and hit the $300 million jackpot AND reel in a $110k bonus after your first year anyways.

Programmers like to talk about average case or worst case analysis rather than best case for a sober and rational analysis. On one side of the equation, $110k risk-adjusted costs you $17k/year, or about $30k pretax. On the other side, average income for Wharton and Tepper grads is probably within about $30k of each other for the same effort.

The definition of insanity is making the same mistakes over and over again expecting a different result. Prestige rarely guarantees success or money. The sooner folks start realizing that, the sooner we can keep more MBA grads out of bankruptcy court.

 
So basically the conclusion is, if the OP needs a free vacation, Tepper is good, but since apparently the OP "has no clue what he wants to do", going to a school that's best cut out for more technical roles like technology is also good? Because it's free?
Tepper is an excellent school all around. It's the University of Chicago's eastern cousin- founded by Andrew Carnegie rather than the Rockefellers- and like U of C, happens to be strongest in stuff that is quantitative and technical.

Half the reason people do MBAs is that they're burnt out and want to go back to school. Why not go to a world-class MBA program for two years for free? Sounds like a pretty darned good deal to me.

I can't justify the $110K difference between Wharton and Tepper in most cases. Most banks hire Tepper grads and Wharton grads. Wharton buys you a little more prestige, but $110K buys you a lot of sleep.

 
IlliniProgrammer:
So basically the conclusion is, if the OP needs a free vacation, Tepper is good, but since apparently the OP "has no clue what he wants to do", going to a school that's best cut out for more technical roles like technology is also good? Because it's free?
Tepper is an excellent school all around. It's the University of Chicago's eastern cousin- founded by Andrew Carnegie rather than the Rockefellers- and like U of C, happens to be strongest in stuff that is quantitative and technical.

Half the reason people do MBAs is that they're burnt out and want to go back to school. Why not go to a world-class MBA program for two years for free? Sounds like a pretty darned good deal to me.

I can't justify the $110K difference between Wharton and Tepper in most cases. Most banks hire Tepper grads and Wharton grads. Wharton buys you a little more prestige, but $110K buys you a lot of sleep.

IP, as much I respect your midwestern frugality, I totally and respectfully disagree with you on this.

The primary reason for going to b-school is for branding and exit opportunities, which are inextricably linked to school prestige, for better or for worse. Wharton is one of the best MBA names you can get. The benefits of going to wharton over tepper far outweigh the $110K premium.

 
Brady4MVP:

IP, as much I respect your midwestern frugality, I totally and respectfully disagree with you on this.

The primary reason for going to b-school is for branding and exit opportunities, which are inextricably linked to school prestige, for better or for worse. Wharton is one of the best MBA names you can get. The benefits of going to wharton over tepper far outweigh the $110K premium.

While partly true, Brady, a free top 10/15 MBA gives you a lot more net options than a top three/five MBA that puts you $110k into debt.

Student loans are a modern form of debt peonage. Paying them back is life's third guarantee after death and taxes. And to be honest, the same people here saying that $110k is worth it for Wharton vs. Tepper were the same folks advising kids to spend $250k on NYU and turn down that full ride to UT Austin.

Where does money start to matter? $160k for MIT vs. a full ride to Northwestern? When HBS costs $800k and earns the average graduate $10k/year extra? When you're 55 and plan to retire in seven years? When we have 20% unemployment and HBS MBAs are landing jobs as assistant managers at movie theatres? I'm not sure it will ever matter to a number of people on WSO. HBS or Wharton will always be worth an extra billion or two over Tepper or NYU. But the fact is that rationally, there's a trade-off. Wharton for $110K vs Tepper for free is where a rational person with average views on prestige, risk, work, and thrift for the upper middle class would start to find it tougher to justify paying $110K for somewhat better career prospects out of Wharton.

 

That's my view. If burnout is any sort of factor in your reason for doing an MBA, you want to avoid having to pay tuition. I am also pessimistic about the long-term prospects for finance and the job market for intellectual workers in the US. But that is my economic perspective- it's been right for the past five years- and I think it will probably be right for at least another three or four- and it drives my IRR requirements for graduate degrees.

We are all going to be working in insurance, commercial banking, F500 finance, or possibly selling "APPEL SIDER" at roadside stands by the time we are done.

 

based on my observations, i actually tend to think the big scholarship kids (particularly full-ride) will usually have more recruiting success at the lower-ranked school than at the more prestigious one. the reasons are simple:

1) it's listed on their resumes and recruiters automatically assume that such kids got into much better schools (which is true most of the time). so they still get the prestige credit without having to attend the more prestigious school.

2) these kids start out at the top of their class instead of at the 30th-50th percentile at the better school. as a matter of practice, the top banks and consulting firms always pick up a few kids each from lower-ranked (semi-target) schools...but they rarely dip down to the bottom-half kids at an elite target. most of the time a top-of-the-class semi-target kid has better odds at elite jobs than a middle-of-the-pack target kid.

the caveat: the two schools should only be separated by one level (two at the most). the OP is considering a school that is a solid 3 levels below wharton. so in this case, wharton is still the obvious choice despite the $100k.

 

To me, the bust cycle in finance means it's even more important to attend a top tier program if you are shooting for that line of business. In the boom times it was easy to recruit from 2nd tier programs because banks and asset managers had open headcount in spades. That is obviously not the case now. Banks can afford to ultra-selective when it comes to new hires these days, which means you better have a good network and a name brand to get noticed. That finance is a shrinking industry means fewer people will make tons of money in it because the business is smaller. Those who get in will still do well. When a bank has 30 open associate spots to fill, you can bet they start with Wharton and other top tier finance schools and move down the ladder. And when things turn around eventually do you want the Tepper network or the Wharton network at your fingertips.

Ignore IP's doom and gloom, go with Wharton.

 

@booth, guys like you said the same thing in 2010 and 2012.

It's bad and it's going to get even worse for AT LEAST few more years before it starts to get better.

Think 1929-1950. It's 1932 right now. In twenty years, we will all be working for insurance companies and advertising firms. The lucky few will be at mutual funds and maybe one or two of us will be earning an inflation-adjusted $150K/year at an investment bank.

 
IlliniProgrammer:
@booth, guys like you said the same thing in 2010 and 2012.

It's bad and it's going to get even worse for AT LEAST few more years before it starts to get better.

Think 1929-1950. It's 1932 right now. In twenty years, we will all be working for insurance companies and advertising firms. The lucky few will be at mutual funds and maybe one or two of us will be earning an inflation-adjusted $150K/year at an investment bank.

My point is it doesn't need to get better for Wharton to be a good gig. Wharton grads are still pulling down the best jobs at BB and making 120K base with 40K signing bonuses and decent full bonuses.
 
Boothorbust:
IlliniProgrammer:
@booth, guys like you said the same thing in 2010 and 2012.

It's bad and it's going to get even worse for AT LEAST few more years before it starts to get better.

Think 1929-1950. It's 1932 right now. In twenty years, we will all be working for insurance companies and advertising firms. The lucky few will be at mutual funds and maybe one or two of us will be earning an inflation-adjusted $150K/year at an investment bank.

My point is it doesn't need to get better for Wharton to be a good gig. Wharton grads are still pulling down the best jobs at BB and making 120K base with 40K signing bonuses and decent full bonuses.
That's great, but kids out of undergrad are making $140k without paying for a $160k MBA. Assuming you work forever, that $160k Wharton MBA only has an IRR of 12%.
 

Stay at CMU. The fact that you would even ask this question on a forum indicates you are wishy washy. Wharton would dominate you. Better to stay in a small pond with no debt then to rack up 100K in debt with a degree you can't handle.

I mean Shitsburgh and liking a building shouldn't even come into play. You're into RE, got into the top finance MBA, top 3 MBA in the country (maybe even the world) and you still want to do CMU because you moved in? $100K in debt is knocked out with your SA gig and 1st year associate bonus.

Just stay.

 

Thanks for the replies.

Right now I'm leaning towards Wharton for the following reasons:

1) Being at the top of the Tepper pile is fantastic, however I think that being an average student at Wharton will still get me where I am going faster--wherever that is. Besides, I asked and got a small Wharton Fellowship ($10,000/year).

2) Job stats indicate that I likely will make an extra $20-25K a year out of Wharton, meaning a 5-10 year payback on the cost difference. I think I can deal with that. The way I see it, as an entrepreneur I should be willing to handle $130,000 in risk, especially if the investment is myself.

3) The prestige factor and network are really big for me. Beyond that, I feel like Tepper is best for people with specialized degrees who wish to bring what they are doing to the next level, mostly in technology and IT. As a Marketing undergrad, I've been looking for a way to distinguish myself. Basically, I want a good reason beyond sweat and cash to deserve equity in a project I'm apart of.

4) After accepting the offer from Carnegie Mellon, I readjusted my career expectations as far as PE and international finance are concerned--at least in the short to mid-term. Wharton offers me endless possibilities; I don't expect to land a PE job upon graduation, however Goldman Sachs IB in Hong Kong seems well within reach. The brand, network and lifelong learning will carry me far and for a long time.

5) While the community, faculty and students at Tepper are truly amazing, I think I can leverage the abundant resources at Wharton to transform myself much further into the person I aspire to become. The fact that Wharton is world-class in Real Estate and Finance really appeals to me, and the breadth and depth of the network gives me much more flexibility to pursue any path I ultimately choose.

6) I realize that I have over-amplified the transaction costs (break lease, second move, new acquaintance) and I'm sure that I can figure things out and make ends meet somehow.

7) I am truly grateful that I have this decision to make. Both a full scholarship at Tepper and a seat at Wharton are exceptional opportunities and I will make the most out of what I have been blessed with. In the end, I realize that my success is entirely up to my own efforts, initiative, perseverance and curiosity. That said, I feel that exhibiting those traits fully at Wharton will yield better results for me, given my background and aspirations, than at Tepper.

Now I need to run the numbers and think this through. It took me a couple of months to properly get my ducks in a row in Pittsburgh and I realize that I've grown complacent in the process. This last minute decision, accompanied with significant risk, forces me to push myself further and take an uncompromising approach towards my dreams.

Once again, thank you guys for sharing this valuable advice with me. I'll be checking back for further comments and I'll be sure to let you know what I ultimately decide.

 
zildjian:
Right now I'm leaning towards Wharton for the following reasons:

3) The prestige factor and network are really big for me. Beyond that, I feel like Tepper is best for people with specialized degrees who wish to bring what they are doing to the next level, mostly in technology and IT. As a Marketing undergrad, I've been looking for a way to distinguish myself. Basically, I want a good reason beyond sweat and cash to deserve equity in a project I'm apart of.

7) I am truly grateful that I have this decision to make. Both a full scholarship at Tepper and a seat at Wharton are exceptional opportunities and I will make the most out of what I have been blessed with. In the end, I realize that my success is entirely up to my own efforts, initiative, perseverance and curiosity. That said, I feel that exhibiting those traits fully at Wharton will yield better results for me, given my background and aspirations, than at Tepper.

Put 'accepted at Wharton' on your resume even if you go somewhere else. I can't tell you where to go, only you can decide that. I can tell you that schools (especially business schools) are essentially sorting mechanisms.

Of course, extraordinary people come from many places, but a much higher percentage come from the best schools. This is the only reason recruiters focus more on Harvard or Wharton instead of some other schools, not because you learn more. So, if you put Wharton on your resume coming out of business school (whether you went there or not), it should help in initial recruiting. If you end up at KKR, McKinsey, Goldman, or whatever; these are also sorting mechanisms and people will assume you were smart even though you can't mention Wharton acceptance later on without sounding like an extreme d-bag. Carnegie Mellon is a great school; Wharton is a great school. You are lucky to have this choice. My opinion is that you will do well either way, so don't stress.

By the way, sweat and cash are the only ways to get equity. Some jobs aren't as sweaty, but technically...

Good luck.

 
SirPoopsaLot:
zildjian:
Right now I'm leaning towards Wharton for the following reasons:

3) The prestige factor and network are really big for me. Beyond that, I feel like Tepper is best for people with specialized degrees who wish to bring what they are doing to the next level, mostly in technology and IT. As a Marketing undergrad, I've been looking for a way to distinguish myself. Basically, I want a good reason beyond sweat and cash to deserve equity in a project I'm apart of.

7) I am truly grateful that I have this decision to make. Both a full scholarship at Tepper and a seat at Wharton are exceptional opportunities and I will make the most out of what I have been blessed with. In the end, I realize that my success is entirely up to my own efforts, initiative, perseverance and curiosity. That said, I feel that exhibiting those traits fully at Wharton will yield better results for me, given my background and aspirations, than at Tepper.

Put 'accepted at Wharton' on your resume even if you go somewhere else. I can't tell you where to go, only you can decide that. I can tell you that schools (especially business schools) are essentially sorting mechanisms.

Of course, extraordinary people come from many places, but a much higher percentage come from the best schools. This is the only reason recruiters focus more on Harvard or Wharton instead of some other schools, not because you learn more. So, if you put Wharton on your resume coming out of business school (whether you went there or not), it should help in initial recruiting. If you end up at KKR, McKinsey, Goldman, or whatever; these are also sorting mechanisms and people will assume you were smart even though you can't mention Wharton acceptance later on without sounding like an extreme d-bag. Carnegie Mellon is a great school; Wharton is a great school. You are lucky to have this choice. My opinion is that you will do well either way, so don't stress.

By the way, sweat and cash are the only ways to get equity. Some jobs aren't as sweaty, but technically...

Good luck.

I hope you're trolling here because if not, this is one of the most idiotic things I've read in the history of WSO.

Yeah, great advice. The OP should tell people he got into wharton even though he went to a school that is barely in the top 20. While we're at it, we should all tell companies during interviews that we actually got into harvard but chose to attend our institutions for other reasons. I'm sure the line, "accepted but turned down Harvard Business" will really impress the top firms!

 

I'm coming out of an entrepreneurial venture, with virtually no finance background. This is definitely a career-switching type of situation.

I'm doing my best to discard prestige considerations from my decision. The network, however, does matter. I do worry that I may be personally less happy and fulfilled at Wharton, although that is just my gut feeling.

Ultimately, I can afford the $130,000 difference by taking loans and then spending most of my heritage from a recent loss to pay them back. Making ends meet will be very stressful, however, as I don't have cash in hand.

Based on potential regrets (risk), I see a choice between having spent a bunch of money when I could have thrived and been happier elsewhere, or having been complacent and missed the opportunity to study at an ultra-elite institution.

At Tepper, I see a strong possibility that I might steer away from IB and dive head-first into something that I am really passionate about. At Wharton, the debt will make matters more complicated; nonetheless, every possibility will be on the table within a 5-10 year timeframe.

Education-wise, I'm attracted by the intellectual advantage I can gain at Carnegie Mellon. Wharton, however, is much better diversified and I think that the leadership curriculum is much more mature. I will also be surrounded with generally more impressive individuals, which will push me to transform myself further.

Virtually every person in my life tells me that I should go with Tepper, however something in me cries out to attend Wharton. I'm conscious that my ego and vicious desire for prestige play a significant part. Truth be told, I think the more courageous decision would be to attend Tepper because I would then need full confidence in my innate abilities to achieve the ambitious goals I have set for myself.

I need to forget about this and enjoy my weekend a bit, perhaps meditate... First world problems.

 

If that's the case- that you have startup experience but not banking experience, it's going to be tough to break into PE straight out of school. You're probably a much better fit for a VC shop.

I know the grass is always greener on the other side, but you are always talking with the PE guys when they're not at work- probably over a glass of beer. I felt the same way about S&T until I spent two years on the floor. You may like your neighbor's Kentucky bluegrass, but your Fescue is doing just fine, too. It just needs some water, and that's a lot easier than ripping out your lawn and replacing it with new seed.

Tepper would be a pretty good school for VC and entrepreneurial stuff. Maybe even better than Wharton. And it's free.

 

I was gonna make a crack at how you got into Wharton without being able to do math, but looks like you've figured it out. Don't forget the quality will be remembered long after the price is forgotten.

Wharton brah. Congrats, that's awesome. Enjoy school and have a great life. My mentor went to Wharton for MBA, and beyond of course the great career, the life experience and the people are amazing, which I think the WSO crowd overlooks sometimes.

Wharton have also got perhaps the best international programming of any school, you can do a full year at INSEAD I think if you want and go all over the world on their trips for a pretty fair price.

if you like it then you shoulda put a banana on it
 
frgna:
I was gonna make a crack at how you got into Wharton without being able to do math, but looks like you've figured it out. Don't forget the quality will be remembered long after the price is forgotten.

Wharton brah. Congrats, that's awesome. Enjoy school and have a great life. My mentor went to Wharton for MBA, and beyond of course the great career, the life experience and the people are amazing, which I think the WSO crowd overlooks sometimes.

Wharton have also got perhaps the best international programming of any school, you can do a full year at INSEAD I think if you want and go all over the world on their trips for a pretty fair price.

Great post. I think WSO posters are way too short-sighted when it comes to the monetary cost of an MBA. You can always make money. Look at the long-term benefits and experiences that cannot be bought by a checkbook. In addition to the awesome professional opportunities, the social experience at wharton is astounding. You are surrounded for 2 years by some of the most interesting and accomplished people you will ever encounter in your life, from all walks of life. Can you honestly put a price tag on such a rich mosaic of memories? No way.

 

Again, why not spend money on experiences when you have a checkbook rather than borrowing to pay for them now?

You will always be able to travel internationally if you have money and free time. Free time is what really what you're sayin cannot be bought with a checkbook- at least directly. It is difficult to travel internationally when you are working seventy hours a week. Want more free time? I have an idea! Don't borrow $110K for school so you have to work 70 hours/week for the next twenty years to pay it off, Mathilde.

Nothing specifically against you guys, but the whole New York mentality is so nonsensical sometimes. Isn't it easier and more fun to spend money you have than spend money you don't have and oblige yourself to work like crazy to pay it off?

Whether you want to admit it or not, the prestigious MBA brand acts as an insurance during highly volatile times.
I just have to point out here that during a recession, the best form of insurance is $160K in the bank and/or having your loans paid off.
 
IlliniProgrammer:
Again, why not spend money on experiences when you have a checkbook rather than borrowing to pay for them now?

You will always be able to travel internationally if you have money and free time. Free time is what really what you're sayin cannot be bought with a checkbook- at least directly. It is difficult to travel internationally when you are working seventy hours a week. Want more free time? I have an idea! Don't borrow $110K for school so you have to work 70 hours/week for the next twenty years to pay it off, Mathilde.

Nothing specifically against you guys, but the whole New York mentality is so nonsensical sometimes. Isn't it easier and more fun to spend money you have than spend money you don't have and oblige yourself to work like crazy to pay it off?

Whether you want to admit it or not, the prestigious MBA brand acts as an insurance during highly volatile times.
I just have to point out here that during a recession, the best form of insurance is $160K in the bank and/or having your loans paid off.

Yes, you can travel alone or with a few friends. But you do realize that the MBA experience is about the people, right? I can't think of another opportunity whereby you are exposed to a large group of so many interesting accomplished people. That's what I meant when I said that you cannot buy thte experience with a checkbook.

A top MBA is an insurance. Sure, it's nice to have $500K cash in your account, so you have the freedom to do what you want. That is not the reality for most people. An MBA is a step towards the goal of professional and social happiness, along with financial independence.

 
Brady4MVP:
Yes, you can travel alone or with a few friends. But you do realize that the MBA experience is about the people, right? I can't think of another opportunity whereby you are exposed to a large group of so many interesting accomplished people. That's what I meant when I said that you cannot buy thte experience with a checkbook.
Of course, Brady, but OP says he likes the people at Tepper. There are a lot of nice people at Wharton, too, but what kind people do you want to surround yourself with and what kind of person do you want to become?

I'm thrilled I went to Illinois and not MIT, and part of it is on the people front. There would have been no Wesley Foundation, no hayrides, no 1 AM trips to WalMart at MIT. No football games, no protests, no trips to Dairy Queen. There would have been other stuff and there would have been nice people at MIT, but the experiences we have in college define our character and I am absolutely thrilled about and proud of the fact that my character was defined by a large midwestern state research institution and NOT something east of Ohio. You probably feel the same way about Penn which is part of the reason you are pushing it so hard.

A top MBA is an insurance. Sure, it's nice to have $500K cash in your account, so you have the freedom to do what you want. That is not the reality for most people. An MBA is a step towards the goal of professional and social happiness, along with financial independence.
Wouldn't you just rather be financially independent than have an MBA and be on the path to eventual financial independance by paying off your debt?

I'm sorry, Brady, but the best route to financial independence is to drive a rusty honda and avoid borrowing $110K for an MBA if you can help it. If you want career greatness and approval on a Porsche lease, that's a different story. Wharton might help over Tepper and you would have a good point there. If OP got a full ride to Wharton too, this would be a no-brainer. But Tepper will leave OP with less stress and probably more financial independence upon graduation.

Only in a crazy place like the East Coast do you meet people who think the best way to financial independence is to go out and borrow a hundred grand at ten percent interest.

(And for another $50K, those folks can find a good cosmetic surgeon to cover up the three inch hole in the side of their head that it takes to believe this crazy stuff.)

 
Relinquis:
Also, if you do end up deciding against Wharton, don't reject them outright. Ask them if they'd drop the tuition costs. Worth a shot...
Completely agree. Counter counter counter. It doesn't hurt to see if Wharton will play ball.

Also, if OP doesn't know what he wants out of an MBA- and I'm not sure that's the case- that makes Tepper an even more conservative choice. You can graduate HBS and wind up without a job or back in your old job if you don't know what you want- same with Tepper- but at least with Tepper, you'll still have your savings.

 

Op, it sounds like you chose Wharton already. Good choice. Don't think about the experience at Tepper vs. Wharton and don't think about the money, think about your goals. Here's why:

  1. It's business school. This isn't deciding which fraternity in undergrad you should join because of their cool house parties. If this is a deciding factor you shouldn't be going to business school you should be starting a bar. Both schools will have great people and you will have a great experience at both places. Throw that out.

  2. It's a lousy $110k. If you don't have enough confidence in yourself that at some point in your career you won't be successful enough not to give a shit about $110k, then don't go to business school altogether. Go because you want to be someone. Go because you want the best chances to succeed in whatever you want to do.

  3. Think about what you want after business school. It seems to be finance. Even if you're not sure what area of finance, it's a done deal, go to Wharton. The conversation about the future of finance is irrelevant in this case. Finance isn't going anywhere, and if that is where you want to be, there's no reason you can't be. Go to the school that sets you up best to succeed. In this case, Wharton.

*This post is not in anyway saying Tepper isn't a great school and the students won't be successful.

 

I choose to go with Wharton.

Thank you guys for all the valuable advice, I'm very impressed with the quality of the input.

This was a difficult choice to make. At 25 years of age, I don't see any reason why I should compromise in my dreams. Even if the financial break even point for this decision is far into the future, I know that on this path there will be no regrets as to what could have been.

Looking forward to participating actively on this message board as I find my way into a finance career!

 
zildjian:
I choose to go with Wharton.

Thank you guys for all the valuable advice, I'm very impressed with the quality of the input.

This was a difficult choice to make. At 25 years of age, I don't see any reason why I should compromise in my dreams. Even if the financial break even point for this decision is far into the future, I know that on this path there will be no regrets as to what could have been.

Looking forward to participating actively on this message board as I find my way into a finance career!

Glad you found it helpful, truly wish you the best. I encourage you to be as proactive as possible in all your endeavors. You've taken the riskier step, but it's the one with greater upside potential within the career fields you've expressed in. Avail yourself of every resource at the school. You should feel literally zero regrets when walking out of Huntsman Hall 22 months from now. Do keep us updated. Best of luck!
I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 
zildjian:
I choose to go with Wharton.

Thank you guys for all the valuable advice, I'm very impressed with the quality of the input.

This was a difficult choice to make. At 25 years of age, I don't see any reason why I should compromise in my dreams. Even if the financial break even point for this decision is far into the future, I know that on this path there will be no regrets as to what could have been.

Looking forward to participating actively on this message board as I find my way into a finance career!

Congrats on the right decision! You will LOVE Wharton and 2 years from now you will look back with zero regrets. It will be the best time of your life, and you will get an awesome job coming out. Think long-term. A prestigious MBA brand pays enormous rewards into your future.

 
zildjian:
I choose to go with Wharton.

Thank you guys for all the valuable advice, I'm very impressed with the quality of the input.

This was a difficult choice to make. At 25 years of age, I don't see any reason why I should compromise in my dreams. Even if the financial break even point for this decision is far into the future, I know that on this path there will be no regrets as to what could have been.

Looking forward to participating actively on this message board as I find my way into a finance career!

Always makes me so happy when something constructive happens here.

Congrats and great decision man. Also didn't realize how young you are, that's very impressive to get in at that age. And you're still young enough to hit on UGs and not be too creepy, since =if(+Age/2+7

if you like it then you shoulda put a banana on it
 

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I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.

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