Hi everyone, I've been admitted to Wharton as a transfer (rising junior) and I'm deciding whether I should transfer. Since I will go into the recruiting season without a Penn GPA and without any brand name finance internship, would I be at a big disadvantage? If I do decide to join Wharton, what should I do during the summer to make it up? Thanks!
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You haven't said what you are trying to do after graduation. if you are already at a good target school where you've established relationships with alumni at places you are aiming for then I would just stay put.
The risky part about transferring junior year is that once recruiting season rolls around, lot of Wharton recruiting teams at large corporations (banks, consulting, marketing, etc.) already generally know to whom they might give interviews to already. And recruiting for next year has already started and starts earlier every year.
There is a chance you don't end up with what you want after transferring. Regardless even if SA doesn't go your way the Wharton network can carry you far long after you graduate. So I'd say your choice depends on how strong of a target you are already at .
Thanks for the reply! I actually haven't put in a lot of effort in connecting with alumni in the industry unfortunately.. so that's a factor in favor of Wharton? I'm attending umich. Everyone in school says umich's alumni network is very strong but I'm not sure whether this is objective
And I'm trying to do IB/PE after graduation. PE is ideal but I guess I don't stand a chance against Huntsman, M&T as a junior transfer. I'll be extremely happy to get a good IB job.
This is a tough choice because UMich is one of the strongest schools in the country for finance recruiting. You will be fine for IB / PE coming from there. Ross and Wharton are both top undergrad programs so the opportunities from either one are virtually the same.
Short term i would say it makes no real difference. Long term it's a question of having Penn on your resume or UMich on your resume. No one will dismiss you because you went to Ross - it's obviously a fantastic school.
That said if you are not in Ross at UMich, I would go ahead and transfer to Wharton.
Curious, what was your cumulative GPA if you don't mind me asking? You can pm me if you'd prefer.
Are you in Ross? If so stay put. If in LSA, I would say go for it. Hard to get looks for Econ majors at Michigan. Even if you don't transfer in with a GPA, you'll get better recruiting opportunities (albeit more limited, but still better than Michigan Econ) exist in the spring and for senior year FT recruiting.
Is it possible to see if you can take summer classes at Penn and have some GPA pre-fall?
Thanks! I can take summer classes but I heard it would hurt a lot if I don't do a summer internship.
Wouldn't you have to stay at least an extra year to meet the degree requirements for Wharton? In my experience, every transfer student I have talked to seems to have a great story to tell and they end up with great opportunities in the end. Regardless, from my experience at Ross and from what I personally know about Wharton, Ross kids are really smart (probably as smart as Wharton kids are), but Wharton kids definitely have a lot more hustle and drive in terms of internships and getting the best jobs. Generally, I mean that while Ross can be quite competitive in terms of GPA, I know Wharton kids are very cut throat in regards to GPA and come from backgrounds that give them access to intern at some of the most recognizable IB/PE/VC/F500 firms in the world.
Thanks! I don't have to take any extra year to finish the degree. I mean I like Ross. I really do. I'm just not sure whether Wharton name and network will open more doors in the future and whether I'll regret it if I turn down the offer this time...
Do you have an internship lined up for the summer? If not, and you decide to transfer, I would recommend taking summer classes and doing whatever it takes to get A's. Coming from Ross, I'm not sure if it would be totally worth it for you. If you have good enough grades to get into Wharton, I am sure you'll be able to line up an IB gig coming out of Ross. PE is a different story, but my guess is that it wouldn't be realistic to land at a top PE shop out of undergrad (the few spots available will go to Huntsman, M&T, as you said). Given that, you may be able to land at a smaller shop, but depending on what you want to do down the line, IB may be a better move than a small PE shop.
Any one can comment on how well Wharton transfers do in recruiting?
I'm a transfer, now a rising junior. I got a bb S&T offer in the fall, no gpa.
bump
Anyone else? I need to make the decision soon so any advice is appreciated!!!
In the long run you can get to where you want to go Wharton even if there is a short term hurdle not being able to navigate the recruiting process at Wharton well. So it really is a toss up. Comes down to where you think you would excel and what your prefer. Weigh the marginal costs and benefits and see what's factors are most important to you.
I personally believe the top UG B-schools Wharton, Ross, Stern, & Haas are interchangeable and don't notice too much difference between them in terms of opportunities.
Agree with most that the difference isn't enormous (although Wharton is definitely still better for east coast IB placement).
However, if you are looking at post-IB PE recruiting, there is a very considerable advantage to coming from Wharton/Harvard/Princeton as opposed to a Haas/Stern/Ross background. PE recruiting at top funds is even more inner-circle than banking recruiting. Take this from someone who didn't go to one of the first 3 schools I listed.
Just curious, where did you hear this? I think Ross is making its way into the inner circle for PE. As for Haas, I would think that the fact that it is a West Coast school hurts it in terms of the number of people in IB and thus, in PE. I don't know why there are not that many people from Stern in PE. What I am saying is only from what I've heard though.
If you have been doing well in terms of internships, GPA, leadership positions, etc. in comparison to the top Ross kids, there you should not have any problem doing well in junior recruiting at Ross. If you transfer now, the pressure to settle into the school and the rigor of the academics, along with recruiting, might be too much for you. From what I have seen from Ross BBA's, many of them are able to get MBA's at M7 schools.
I would've thought that really only non-targets have a hard time recruiting for PE from IB
Stern/Ross (Haas on the West Coast) have always had a lot of presence in PE. I've seen a lot of people from these schools at large funds like Carlyle, Providence, Advent, Warburg Pincus, TPG, etc.
You're listening to mostly non target goobers in this thread. Do yourself a favor and transfer to Wharton and don't look back.
Can't believe there's contemplation here.
Would transfer to Wharton. I think the name brand long term is more than worth the risk that some people don't give you quite as many looks if you don't have a Wharton GPA. People will see your likely very strong GPA at Ross and not think twice in my view. Maybe you don't get your first choice internship, but will be worth it in terms of lateraling for FT or when looking for a PE gig afterwards.
These arguments of "oh well this school is getting better at placing into PE..." are total bullshit. It is a numbers game and any large prestige bump you can get by going to Wharton is worth it.
It's funny to hear Michigan students/alums say the opportunities are the same at Wharton. The career opportunities in finance that come about from Wharton are simply outstanding. Believe me, transferring to Wharton will be one of the best decisions you ever make.
I would transfer to Wharton 100%, the long term value of a wharton undergrad degree will open many doors.
Wharton transfers tend to do well after freshman year based on kids in my fraternity. I don't know how that translates for junior placement. You'll be recruiting for OCR within a couple weeks. I don't think it's a negative for recruiting at all - just have a good story. Remember they are hiring you with the understanding that you have 2 more years of school left so you should be fine.
I think Wharton has better career opportunities in general. That being said, I know a ton of guys @ Ross in the industry that have done very well too. If you are paying in-state tuition vs full boat @ Penn, I may be inclined to stay @ Ross just because you will have 100x more fun @ Michigan / relative cost.
To the people saying it is a no-brainer, have you considered that he won't have a GPA @ Wharton when applying for for SA roles in the fall?
Have you considered he'll have a very strong GPA from Ross to show them (assume since otherwise he wouldn't have gotten into Wharton)? Not sure why the technical lack of Wharton GPA matters
The lack of GPA at Wharton matters, a lot. Big difference between transferring as a sophomore versus junior. At most firms, Wharton alums (1st and 2nd year analysts) decide who get interviews from the list of Wharton applications. Wharton alums went through the school and know what are good GPAs, extracurriculars, and achievements to have. An entire resume containing Ross things (including a Ross GPA), means nothing and has no context for the Wharton alum pulling resumes.
Transferring to Wharton has a massive long-run benefit. But the difference between going through recruiting as a Wharton (amazing school) transfer with no achievements is little compared to going through recruiting as a candidate with great achievements at Ross (good school).
If this was a sophomore transfer, the decision is easy. As a junior transfer, there are a lot more things to consider and it isn't a clear cut choice for the short-run.
OP, what are you leaning towards right now? How long do you have until you have to decide?
How important are clubs/extracurricular involvement at Wharton in terms of getting interviews? Any of the Wharton kids on here able to opine? Might be a consideration as it could be difficult to join the top clubs that provide recruiting advantages as a transferring junior.
Wharton will definitely open more doors, though Ross is no slouch (and it's one of the few schools, along with Wharton and several others, that firms like Ares, Apollo, Och-Ziff, etc. recruit directly out of undergrad). If you're a strong performer at Ross and able to get a top IB offer, then the difference between Ross and Wharton won't be as noticeable, and I don't think it'd hold you back in the least (except in rare circumstances that'll later likely be negligible).
However, if you're expecting to end up at a MM or lower BB/non-elite boutique, then I think the Wharton transfer makes a lot of sense, because Wharton will make recruiting easier, and also probably make FT recruiting easier should you not find a good place for next summer.
Also to add on, if you're paying in-state tuition I would definitely stay, but if it's OOS, then the financial considerations are pretty much identical.
Sorry, last post, I should really consolidate my thoughts before hitting the green button. You mention the Wharton network, but the majority of my "network" from school comes from kids I met early on in Freshmen year/beginning of Sophomore year.
If your network at Ross is already strong in terms of friends in classes/clubs/etc., know that people will likely be less receptive to a transfer student trying to establish themselves since they don't know you yet.
Obviously Wharton alums have less context with Ross activities, etc, but let's not pretend like they're going to look at a likely ~3.9 from Ross with transfer into Wharton as if it's nothing. The short term moderate potential negative is significantly outweighed by the long term benefits
I don't think they will look down on him for transferring, but it is not as if IB recruiting is easy at Penn already. As JackandDaniels said, getting first round interviews is already really tough and there will be no shortage of Penn students with really strong GPA and resumes that he will have to compete with. For them, giving an interview to a Penn kid with a 3.7 is a safer pick than the 3.9 GPA transfer student. My guess is that they will just be more interested in the Penn kid who is more of a known commodity.
Actually, thinking about it more now, I am more and more sympathetic to your point about the long-term benefits. I have been focusing on what the chances are of him getting a good summer gig and nothing else. OP seems determined enough where he will find a good role whether he stays at Ross or transfers, and he will certainly benefit from the Penn network later in his career
Are there serious disadvantages to staying where you are and just networking?
Thanks everyone! Some people told me school becomes much less important after my first job so if transferring hurts my prospect in the first job, it hurts every job afterwards. Is that true?
I'm afraid a transfer will be viewed unfavorably even though I feel getting in as a transfer is pretty hard.
I'm leaning towards staying at Ross. Almost all ross alumni advised meto stay.
School does eventually become less important but you'll be misled if you completely discount it.
Also, I'm not sure how much stock I would put into Ross alumni advising you to say...might be a bit biased...unless they're practically guaranteeing personal job offers.
I would stay. I transferred to a "target," albeit not at the level of Wharton, and it's still very competitive here to even get interviews. There's no place you can go to where offers are given out like candy. You still need to compete with your peers and with Penn alumni looking at your resume, they might not give you looks because you are a transfer with no involvement at Wharton/Penn. Ross is also basically a target for every major bank and considering you got into Wharton, I'm assuming your extracurriculars and grades are pretty good.
Essentially, you are likely increasing the name brand on your resume for a more difficult climb to the same goal.
The only point I'd add is that no one has mentioned slowing down your graduation schedule. You can do this a couple of ways.
Either do the standard four remaining semesters (junior and senior year) across three years in whatever combination you like, or take a gap year between your junior and senior year.
The former makes more sense to me. A good schedule would be Fall 2016 + Fall 2017 + Fall 2018 + Spring 2019. This presents numerous advantages.
You will be on campus for the fall recruiting season when all the firms are there for on-campus presentations. You're the equivalent of a sophomore, so you don't have to worry about recruiting for the upcoming summer. You're simply there to meet the first-years from each firm, the rising analysts (seniors on campus who will be joining after graduation), and the people senior enough that they'll still be there when you're at the info session next year (VP, MD).
This will also allow you to get a Wharton GPA for recruiting. Taking classes in Fall 2016, skipping the Spring 2017 semester, then recruiting Fall 2017 while taking classes again means you now have Penn coursework under your belt. You're now a 'junior' and on the clock to get the best internship you can, but with the added benefit of eliminating the problem of having no Wharton GPA or coursework to show the alumni who are interviewing you plus way more contacts you've developed in that intervening year.
During your semesters off you should be looking to fill your life with the coolest thing you can think of. Volunteer in Peru. Backpack Europe. Start an ecommerce company (a fantastic story for interviews if it ends up turning into something halfway decent; a great source of passive income if you actually crush it) with a friend in the engineering school. Go back and visit your friends at Michigan for a few months. Be a ski bum in Colorado for the season.
Convince a buy-side firm in Philly, your home city, or New York (hell, anywhere) to let you intern. Do an academic exchange program with one of Wharton's reciprocal schools (or just pick somewhere fantastic like LSE or HKUST and apply). Be an au pair; you'd be surprised to find how sweet some gigs are where wealthy foreign families want an Ivy League-educated native English speaker to hang around their pre-teen kid as a language and cultural tutor.
In short, with this path you get a full year to network (starting from the moment you hit campus in September) using your Wharton email and the alumni database, you get a GPA at your new institution, you get a couple six month blocks of time to travel, intern, build a side business, volunteer, or spend with family, and you get more time to figure out who you are when doing exactly that matters most.
If you're concerned about anyone "finding out" you didn't finish in four years, don't be. Just about any guy who hears of you doing anything like this is going to go "Huh, cool" and start asking you questions. You'll see their eyes light up. Anyone who'd look at you unkindly for taking some extra time to figure things out is not someone you want to be around. Don't be in a rush to get into a soul-crushing job.
Good luck.
SB'd. this is pretty much word for word what I did when I transferred (state-school -> HYP). Soon discovered that I wasn't competitive with the student body, but still landed an MM offer during the summer. Slightly disappointed, so spent an entire year doing off-cycle internships + networking. Then summered at a BB and got FT. If you're reading this OP, listen to @APAE 's advice
This is WSO.
This is what makes this site so valuable to anyone starting out and looking for guidance. SB to you, sir!
The only negative is that you might like your time off so much that you might not want to go back to school! :)
Good advice. Specifically, I'd recommend some kind of work or volunteer abroad experience. You're going to come back with marketable foreign language skills and interview stories far above what your classmates will have.
listen to your heart
Wharton Transfer Advice (Originally Posted: 07/13/2016)
You'll be fine, just look at Trump
bump
I just transferred to another target school myself from a non-target. My advice would be to continue what your doing in terms of work ethic and get involved in ECs to help you fit in socially.
I teach at Wharton. Yes indeed you'll probably be culture shocked. Students tend to be extremely competitive workaholics, obsessed with GPA. However as in every school, some ppl have to be in the bottom quartile. If you are OK with that, you can focus on networking, & actually learning something instead of grubbing for grades and you'll find on graduation there are still great jobs for those who skipped IBD/MBB recruiting due to low GPA. In fact you might not even have a GPA for recruiting; I'm not sure how it works for transfers.
I like getting to know the superstar kids -- who knows, I might be working for/investing with them someday -- but I also appreciate those who can handle the place without becoming tools or freaking out because they get a B+ or two. If you become an entrepreneur (more popular career choice lately), it absolutely doesn't matter what your grades are as long as you don't flunk out.
You better transfer to Wharton...
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