How to network effectively - Tired of applying for positions online
Hi,
Could somebody give me some suggestions on how to network effectively?
I'm tired of applying for positions online and hear nothing.
50% don't respond, 35% reject and only about 15% invite for an interview.
People always tell me to network but I just don't know how to make it effectively and make sure the talk is not a one time talk but something more continuous.
What topics do you bring up when you network with professionals?
How do you follow up?
I'm sure that they probably can guess that I'm looking for an internship, how to make it less obvious?
How about cold-emailing? (I don't think cold-calling would be appropriate, right?)
Any suggestion would be appreciated.
Thanks
Interested.
Yea, I think I exaggerated, haha Let's say something closer to 1%-2% of total applications I sent out.
Search for it.
But simply put: -Find people with whom you have a connection (e.g. uni, interests, product, industry) and use it as the reason you contacted them in particular; -Tailor each email; -Email should go: how you found them, why you found them (e.g. i've recently become very interested in Stat Arb due to bla bla bla), who you are (uni, current status, job or recent internships), request meet up; and -Follow up, people are busy and travel, you need to follow up.
Use the search function. This topic was just covered extensively about a month ago.
Thank you guys for the help... will be going through past discussions and will look into the guide WSO is selling.
Last question, who do you think I should network more with, VPs & MDs or Analysts & Associates?
Anyone who'll meet with you. (but lower ranks will have less time / weight)
I see.
Thanks for your inputs, appreciate it.
1-2% sounds a little low, but that could be due to being at a non- or semi-target school, low GPA, little work experience, your emails are too long, etc.
Oreos is right about the time/wait thing. The converse side of this is that you can better relate to analysts/associates and they will most likely give you a clearer view of whats going on. Being able to better relate to them gives you a greater opportunity to get in the door.
Lastly, if your formatting is anything like on this post, you need to work on it. I know people are a lot more casual on forums, but sometimes there is spillover.
It could be a few reasons all together. I'm a master's student at a target school applying for analyst positions (due to lack of experience in banking)... I think being a master's student and applying for analyst positions is the main drawback... many companies don't like this
My emails are very short (2-3 sentences) but I haven't been networking at all, I've been sending out emails to HR people and filling out online applications... clearly not a good idea. I'm not even sure about the 1-2%... Let's say so far I have distributed my resume to ~60 companies/contacts and received 6 interview invitations.
I know it's too late to get anything out of networking for the summer, but I hope it will help me in the near future when I graduate (Dec 2012).
Thanks.
FYI: I'm a student, so please take what I say with a grain of salt. To be fair, most of it is common sense observations/questions that will hopefully help lead you to the answers you need.
Definitely keep networking. Offer to work for free this summer if you can afford to. It's a last ditch effort, but if you can get something going this summer you might be able to convert it to full time. Even if you don't, you've got something to put on your resume.
One thing a lot of people do that I think is a big mistake (keep in mind, once again, I'm not in industry) is they treat the informational interviews too formally. Being formal is fine to an extent, but when you're trying to get a guy to go to bat for you, it's not going to work. You have to shoot the shit a little, make sure he gets to boast about his accomplishments, build a rapport with him. You want to go from being a name to being the guy who did a baller internship, or studied something really cool, or even better, partied with Victoria's Secret models in Paris during fashion week haha.
Give them a reason to like you and to want to call you up and hang out. Be respectful. Be GENUINELY interested (best way to do this: find out how to be interested in a janitor's job, then you'll be able to find interest in anything. That's not really fair since janitors actually get to see a lot of cool shit.). And, last but not least...
BE FUCKING HAPPY
If nothing else, I can tell you this: a sunny disposition and 100 IQ will get you way further than a douchey attitude and a 110 IQ.
Thank you for your suggestions, D M. Every piece of information on this website is golden... I wish I'd known this website a few years back.
How to network - Importance of networking (Originally Posted: 06/22/2011)
I've read a lot of times the importance of "networking in order to get a job in IB specially if you come from a non-target school, I mean, I've got a lot of friends at college, but they are just friends as I said, they are like me, students who have no idea with zero working experience. And my family, well I'm the only one university student in my whole family, so they also have not contacts with investment banking professionals.
You guys talk about networking, but how do you do that?
Use your alumni network to find people in the industry. E-mail them, explain why you are interested in 1 sentence, and ask to setup a phone call to find out more about their experience working in the industry. Setup a call and come prepared with questions and a solid understanding of why you want to do investment banking. Finish up by asking for advice on how best to position yourself for an interview. Even if it takes a while for you to gain traction don't stop. Always be professional. Start with analysts and then start contacting others at the same firm. HR will notice and then will be more likely to interview you based on your display of interest. Make sure HR is aware.
I, too, am interested about this
how do you "make sure HR is aware"?
Figure out who is in charge of HR. For most banks, simply call and ask for the director or recruiting, head of human resources, etc. Once you get their name, ask them for their email address to submit a resume (HR is much more open to this type of thing, probably happens 25 times a day). In the body of your message, type something like "I was notified of this position by John Smith and blah blah blah." That's one way.
Similarly, if you can make good relationships and manage to meet the analyst/associate/vp for coffee, give them a copy of your resume and tell them to hand it to HR.
These tactics work best for boutique banks.
What do you recommend for BB?
I usually use a Cisco router
.
I don't think networking with Analysts is worth your time, unless its a small shop and they can definitely get your resume in front of the right people or if they are a good friend of yours.
I usually try to email VPs since they are not as busy as MDs, but they are senior enough where their opinion counts (more so than an associate).
If a VP doesnt respond, i'll email an associate. If that doesnt work, i'll email an MD.
Most people (if you have a good alumni network) are more than willing to chat if they are not busy. Just be courteous, polite, and genuine about yourself and your goals.
How to improve my schmoozing and networking? (Originally Posted: 03/16/2013)
I'm female playing in a boys club, working with a few slick fellows. I've always wanted to improve my schmoozing and networking abilities but looking for ways to practice and improve. Anyone have any ideas what I could do?
(Located in Canada, no WSO monkey events unfortunately!)
This is an open ended, but good question. Many of my clients are women (medical industry), some of which are CEO's, CFO's, MBA's, etc. They are hard as nails professionally, but are also good schmoozers when running into them informally. What do you currently do? Is there a specific area you feel you are hitting a wall?
I ask the myself how to network with guys as well Many times I'm afraid of appearing to be flirting or just find it hard to connect with guys' interest (think in terms of conversation topics, activities, etc.)
How does networking actually work? (Originally Posted: 06/21/2012)
I understand the basic idea of networking but I feel most people here don't understand that networking isn't as straight forward and clean cut as its presented to be.
One of the basic tenants of networking most people over look is giving the other person a reason to help you find a job. Whether its them liking your personality, or thinking you can help them down the road or they owe you a favor.
The goal is creating a relationship where you provide something of value to the other person that motivates them to help YOU when the time comes.
Secondly its also important who you network with, there are so many people you can network with in finance but very few who actually have any control over the hiring and firing decisions at a firm.
Sure you talk to a few associates or analysts who are your friends at an IB but when time comes, are they going to walk into the MD's office and tell him to pull YOUR resume out of the pile and to hire you and put their neck on the line for you.
Its very hard to find the RIGHT people to network with, and secondly its harder to give them a reason to help you.
So whats the solution?
In my opinion the best reason you can give someone to help you is impressing them with your resume but only after first building positive rapport, making them laugh and blowing up their ego etc. Now when they look at your resume they have certain positive emotions attached vs a random stranger.
Second its hard finding the opportunity to network with the right person, either you don't know how to find them or don't have the right medium or time to do it. For example how are you going to network with someone over linked in, send them five or six messages back and forth. Thats doesn't do anything, it doesn't create any relationship. Or if you're at a networking event, does 5 minutes give you enough time to talk to them and establish a positive rapport? On top of that you don't know if they are going to help you in the end or not.
Most people sadly will not be able to pull of networking to get a job there are too many moving parts that need to align correctly for it to work.
Thats my opinion, but I'm not saying it doesn't work. Suppose you do an internship in a PWM gig, the guy next door to your cubicle is an ex whatever and you get to talking to him and he mentions something about IB, you mention your love of IB he tells he can help you. That can work.
Appreciate other peoples opinions
I think of it as all of those things you mentioned, but to an extent. Like you said, it really helps when an employee is willing to go out of the way for an applicant - which they obviously need a reason for. But like you also said, it's hard to pull that type of networking off.
So I think the best thing that anyone on the outside looking can do is cast a wide net, at the least. And since luck does play a factor, make sure you are perfect in everything you can control - gpa, leadership, internships. Your interests are your personality and your personality combined with your passion for IB will be the key to networking well.
But honestly, I have been on both sides of the fence. I have had many "meaningful" connections with employees that have completely fell flat, meaning they don't even respond to my contacting. And I have had some very brief and cold connections do more things for me than I had even asked out of them. All it takes is just one!
I see, yeah I plan on using cold calling to network myself into a boutique hopefully.
On a side note, if you've graduated college and have a few years working experience in a client facing role, think financial advisor, and you get your CFA, would it be impossible to secure an analyst position at a boutique IB?
How do I network? (Originally Posted: 06/21/2014)
I always see this word on this website whenever somebody has an alumni base, connections, etc. Well once I find these connections, what do I do?
PM me.
Networking, How To (Originally Posted: 01/28/2007)
After looking alums up in the directory and calling them, how should the conversation go? I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of the alum, and I feel like just asking questions about their personal experiences in the recruiting process, analyst years, etc would be the best route to go, but can anyone offer any additional insight? If someone could provide an outline of the way a hypothetical networking call should go from start to finish it would be great. Thanks!
ask them to tell you fratty stories from their college days. guys usually love bullshitting about that stuff
Can anyone offer any networking advice?
How to use your networking connections to land an interview? (Originally Posted: 10/29/2010)
Say I've done some networking and have a few contacts at a firm I want to work for. How can I use this to help me get an interview with the firm if none of these contacts are directly involved in the recruiting process?
Do I just directly ask them if they can pass on my resume to a recruiter? How effective is this?
Topic's been covered a few times on this forum. Run a search
Use common sense. How well do you know these contacts? Have they been helpful and reached out to others on your behalf already? If so, ask to be in touch with hiring managers/other individuals involved in the process for more information. Helps to ask if you can be put in the loop with the firm's recruiting team for your college/university. Works like a charm if they like you, expect them to be unresponsive otherwise
How to network properly? (Originally Posted: 05/23/2008)
So Im gonna be a junior next year applying for SA from a target. I'm wondering aside from applying through the normal channels(online app & career office), how much should I network?
My brother is offering me the chance to speak with his many friends that works in the field, but most are at the analyst level with 1-2 years working experience. If I were to talk to these people, how should i approach this as a networking oppurtunity, or actually, will they be able to help me get interviews (if they deem me appropriate from the convos) even they are analyst? Will this coincide with my application from the normal channels though??
I kind of did a search on the forum, but couldn't find an answer to this (since most were networking with alums at higher levels)... thanks for any advice
It really can't hurt knowing as many people as humanly possible. They may only be second year analysts, but by the time you get a job they could associates at the IB or PE you are interested in.
Good luck.
How to network super efficiently? (Originally Posted: 03/07/2010)
So I only recently discovered the magical power of networking post offer.
I just cold contacted an alum who works at a HF and was curious how to best have a conversation with him and NOT waste his time. I expressed interest in HF industry and inquired about career advice. I was thinking about introducing myself, asking a few questions prepared beforehand about his experience and what I can do and then ending the call.
Anyone have any tips regarding an informal call? I have common sense enough to not beg for a job offer etc... but I am missing a few pointers.
I like your name lol
Ask them what the did post school that helped them/lead them into te HF business. Ask them ideas or comments on how you should start working towards a similar career path. Be to the poit and polite, keep in touch and it will pay off when you are finally ready to make the move.
Networking - How do you network (Originally Posted: 12/28/2006)
ok this is going to sound stupid, but how exactly do you network? lets say i have friends working as associates at certain ibanks, what do i ask them to do so they can help me get a job? i mean i know certain people that can definitely help me like certain people on the board of directors and a friend thats sleeping with his boss who interviews a lot of the first years but other than this, how would someone on the inside help you?
Asking friends to "hook you up" is not networking. It also is not your best approach. If they are friends of yours, I would suggest taking them out for lunch or a drink, informing them that you are interesting in entering the field and asking them for pointers on the best way to do so. Subtle questions such as "Do you have any suggestions on steps I should take or people I should speak to on the subject." They should be more than willing to provide advice and/or some pointers. And if you are considering approaching the boss of your friend with the angle of them sleeping together... don't. It is extremely tacky, counterproductive and likely to also get your friend fired. I would also suggest heading to the local bookstore and picking up some books on the subject such as Carnegie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People" or Gitomer's "Little Black Book of Connections". Good luck.
yea i get that, i am very subtle when it comes to these things, i was just wondering how much someone on the inside can benefit you in terms of employment. obviously i wont go up to my friends boss and use "that angle" to get myself a job, its all about those little social events where you can get to know someone who is responsible for employment better. but i was just wondering how much leverage these people can have in terms of internships and such, like what can an associate do?
Use them to get names of people senior, who you then email...
^good one guitarguru, you just gave me an idea! lol
How exactly to network? (Originally Posted: 03/20/2010)
Hey guys, I have heard ppl talk a lot about networking in this and other forums.
My goal is too make a career switch to strategy consulting and i don't really know that many ppl in this field.
My questions is how exactly does one go about networking?
Also, What about a yet-to-be-enrolled student, who has 5-6 months before the start of school and hence no access to the school's resources?.
Thanks for your replies.
Also, on another note, which schools puts more students in quality consulting companies - HEC Paris or Dartmouth? I have admits from both and would really appreciate your opinions.
Networking is about meeting people and building relationships. Try reaching out to people in the industry, utilize your alumni base, and if you don't have access to that yet perhaps consider sites such as LinkedIn
Couple things I did: talked to my Dad to use his contacts, and sent out random emails and letters to people of smaller companies in Chicago. A few of them actually wrote me back saying they would love to meet with me. Think of neighbors/friends anything.
Think of it this way: what would you expect someone to say if you asked them how to make friends? What would you tell them if they asked you? If you are a friendly and semi-engaging person, then I'm sure you will have no trouble befriending people whom you meet. Do new friends have lunch and then email every day asking about a job? Or do they keep in touch with one another like friends would, touching base every 4 - 8 weeks? And how to meet them? You tell me. Where would you find people in strategy consulting? How many consultancies are there? Are there any alumni working there? How would you contact them?
Are you a girl and hot? Should be very easy if so.
thx guys...i know dat was kinda dumb question...i m trying my best.....its just dat wen iever i try to make dat first contact, i cant get it outta my head dat i m just contacting his/her for biz (and making it sound like a frndly conversation). ..But i guess dat feeling will go away w8 regular practice :)
@themacroguys: thx dat is wat i thought.
@GoldenEagle: thx forthe post. will start doing dat too
@Tier2Sta: ...am a dude
Networking - How do I network? (Originally Posted: 04/08/2009)
Hey everyone,
First post here. I am going into my final year of undergrad and have not had an internship or anything.
I was wondering, how do I network?
I went to a networking workshop at my school. Basically they told us to call higher ups and ask them about their work. Also they told me to try to get informational interviews too. I've also heard about cold calling people.
How do I do this, like who should I call? Should I call a firm and ask for HR? Some VP?
My school doesn't have that big of an alumni network. I've read some of the posts in this forum, some colleges have a list of alumni and where they work, mine does not.
tl;dr What can I do to network?
That sucks that you don't have a network. Smaller shops (at least for AM & ER) tend to have a "professionals" page. EMail addresses are often posted. Just email and ask if they could chat on the phone for a few minutes (I would reach out by email rather than phone). A lot of these guys like to give advice, so you should make some connections.
Try not to come off like a salesman. Ask about their firm, their career and their current role. They might eventually ask what your plans are. Then you can ask about an internship.
This sounds lame but it works. I got an interview today after having this kind of call in this morning. Be prepared, though: Most of the time, I get into a cool conversation, but they tell me the firm isn't hiring. The worst case is, you learn something about finance, and make a long term contact.
Also do searches through linkedin for alum.
A few weeks ago we released a networking guide that might be helpful for you. It's only $9 and you can use the link below to read about it before purchasing.
Good luck, Patrick
Invite People Here: //www.wallstreetoasis.com/invite $9 WSO Guides: //www.wallstreetoasis.com/page/wall-street-interview-guide-page
how do you do SCHOOMZING and NETWORKING? (Originally Posted: 10/19/2007)
I was just having coffee with my prof and then he introduced me to a friend of his who is an international business man. Obviously this guy is well to do and well traveled. So I took down his contact info and i'll actually be meeting up with him and his wife for some casual chat (maybe over coffee or lunch) next friday.
Because of his international experience, he seems to know a thing or two about banking, either directly or indirectly. Of course I'm interested in just getting to know him and his wife but is there anything I can do in particular to see if he can help me in anyway get an ibanking job? This is so far sketched but anything would be better than nothing- maybe like he's got a neighbor who's an MD? I'm really not expecting anything.
The way I see it is that everyone on this board talks about networking. Now i want to put it to practice. But how? Thanks!
Go to the meeting and focus on both him and his wife. Try to inculde her in the conversion. Remember that it is not an interview so just talk about thing you are intersted in and ask for feedback. When closing up ask if he think he may know any people that could tell you more about what they do directly. Maybe even ask this in a follow up email.
I have have many jobs come my way via networkings. Remember to stay in contact with people not just when you need them. And keep them informed in what is going on with you.
International Businessman ? That's pretty vague, try to find out exactly what he does first. If he's arms exporter he's not gonna be of much help to you.
if he's an arms exporter, he'd be so loaded that hes bound to have connections. I think he's the president of a company thats got offices around the world doing industrial machine parts.
I mean this is just a friendly get together. Its very nice of him to follow up with me. But you know i'd just like to know what it means to network and whether or not this is a situation that i can actually make something out of it.
you don't even have to ask him on the first meeting. just get to know them, build a good rapport with them and then maybe in a subsequent meeting bring it up. just a thought. sometimes people get turned away if you're too pushy. it's a fine line. u gotta be the judge.
yeah, I agree it seems to pushy to ask on the first meeting, leave it to a follow up e-mail or call or something.
How to network effectively? - Puzzling (Originally Posted: 10/24/2012)
Hi all,
The whole networking thing puzzeled me for a while since I've been trying to break into banking since the begining of this year.
I started from the alumni database, asking them out for coffee but the results were not very fruitful. I summarized thee problems I am sure don't just happen to me:
I'd like to hear anyone have some good idea how to make yourself more memorizeble and "likeable" in a very short time period? e.g. A 20 min coffee meeting.
What is the next move if 60% of cold/call email got no reply, and the all of the rest 40% who did reply, but with a "thank you but we've no opening now".
Linkedin Networking. I asked one guy to make an introduction to a banker at his old place, but he totally ignored me even after a follow up email. The guy I'm trying to connect is the MD of a boutique who's looking for an Analyst now, an opportunity I can't afford to lose, should I insist on it or forget about it?
Many thanks!
Stop trying so hard. Find some common ground you have (same school is a good start). You don't have to force a meetup right away. Talk over email, maybe a phone call or two and try to build a relationship. You can get the chance to meet in their office, shadow them for a little etc
I've found LinkedIn to be totally useless for networking. People don't really check it on a regular basis anyway. I would leverage the alumni network extensively. That's how I got my full time position. I also wouldn't ever directly ask for a job without getting to know the person first. Make sure that during the short meeting, you make known what your intentions are. You should go in with knowledge about why the firm would be of interest to you for future opportunities but at the same time you should make known that your goal for the meeting to get a better feel for whether or not it's a fit. If the meeting goes well, I would ask whether or not there are opportunities available at the very end of the meeting and then follow up on that later on.
You should try to think of networking with the goal of broadening your social sphere than on getting a job. In my experience, the best kind of networking happens from your own social network. Forcing connections is like asking a random person at the train station for coffee or soliciting in my mind.
Bottom line, leverage your personal network -- family, friends, classmates, coworkers. Then, friends of those friends of those friends, etc. Plus, even if you don't "get the job" or the direct result you wanted to, having a solid personal network for social and professional support later is invaluable.
Exactly. You aren't just networking for a job right now but for your future as well. Building a personal relationship is crucial and will benefit you throughout your career. In 3 or 4 years you may get a call from someone you built a relationship saying they have an opening and would like to interview you.
How to network? - Messed up freshman year of college (Originally Posted: 12/31/2011)
So I seriously fucked up my freshman year of college because of a variety of factors (difficult transition b/c my mother seriously coddled me all through high school, complicated family situation with my parents separating/filing for divorce+uncertain financial situation=messy situation all-around) and my gpa was extremely low (I ended up on academic probation). I'm doing better now - my first semester gpa this year was ~3.15 - but my gpa's still really low and I'm hoping to land some sort of internship next summer. Could I try and explain my circumstances in a cover letter and point out my improvement academically?
Also, given my gpa, I have to network like crazy to even have a chance of getting an interview, but I'm not really sure how to go about doing it. Can anyone give me advice on what to say if I cold-call someone or e-mail alumni? I talked to an adviser at the LS&A career center but she only gave me vague advice about making a linked-in account and working on my profile.
Also interested...I'm in the same boat but I transferred to a different school and my old gpa doesnt carry over so fresh start, its something you might want to consider if thats an option. I'm trying to bury my freshman year but I'm afraid I won't be able to hide it very long
check these out, they have some good ideas:
http://www.jhu.edu/careers/students/BuildyourSkills/networking.pdf
http://www.jhu.edu/careers/students/BuildyourSkills/usinglinkedin.pdf
Thanks!
One more question - would it help my case if I listed my 1st and 2nd year GPA (well, 2nd year GPA to date) to show a trend of improvement? If I continue to do improve academically then I was thinking I could try to pass off my first year GPA as a one-time thing.
So i'm going to paste in a response I sent to someone who PM'd me with a similar question, Hope this helps:
Key to networking is talking to anyone and everyone. When I realized that I wanted to get into investment banking...I started talking to anyone who I was even remotely connected to who was in investment banking. I'm talking friends of friends, friends of professors, anyone.
1)Sit down and think about which of your friends have parents in finance, do the same for your parents friends, etc and just start writing names down. E-mail those people for informational interviews.
2)Whether or not you go to a target, you most likely have a alumni directory. Find a friend or someone who graduated recently and get their login to the alumni directory...search for people in IB/PE/HF/AM and send them emails asking for informational interviews...the alumni connection helps out a lot
3)When I would get an interview with a bank or saw a bank post something on OCR...I would go on linkedin (only works if you have a good amount of connections) and in the search box, search companies and type in the bank I was interviewing/wanted to interview with to see who in my network knew people at that bank. I would then ask them to connect me, ask for an informational interview, and then utilize that relationship when interviews started.
Really you need to spend 80% of your time on recruiting on networking...it is more important than grades, your technical knowledge, and your background.
Don't give up. Hope this helps
How To Network - Current junior at a target (Originally Posted: 11/29/2010)
Hey guys, So I have been to information sessions since I was a sophomore(I'm currently a junior at a target). Last year, I would get business cards and never e-mail people back. This year, I have gotten business cards and actually e-mailed each person. Most of the e-mails are structured in this fashion: nice to meet you at blah, reminder of who I am and what we talked about, ask a question about the industry/desk that's related to current events(i.e. how is QE2 affecting your business, how will fin reg impact your desk blah blah). Most of the times, I get a response like: yea great meeting you too and a paragraph or two answering my question. Sometimes, they'll ask to stay in touch. I have had the opportunity to make a few calls and actually talk to a few traders/ capital markets people.
Am I doing it right? How can I be more successful with networking so that the e-mail correspondences carry on longer? Should I follow up with more questions or with an update on my application status?
after a relationship has been established, i used to be upfront with my contact and just say "I'm actually applying to XYZ's i banking summer analyst program and was wondering if you could help out in any way with the process"
i'm from a non target and got multiple FO interviews just by being upfront and asking for it. most kids will beat around the bush and avoid being so direct.. that's why i got the interviews and they didn't =P
I agree Chris as I was in the same position. Establish some rapport with your contacts (email them once a month with a question or anything that will help keep you on their radar). Be humble, and display a lot of interest in their career and success. When you have them where you want them, pull the damn trigger (Ask for contacts, forward resume, or any assistance with the process). I for one understand that it is difficult to do all the work on your own, and that goes for anything in life, and your contact probably understands this. The squeaky wheel gets the oil, so ask for what you want. That being said, timing and positioning is critical.
You are doing the right things. The ones who have requested that you keep in touch are perfect targets for the "...with recruiting around the corner I was wondering how to best position myself for an interview at your firm..." email.
One more point, don't worry about the frequency of the exchanges, most times these people are quite busy. Email once a month with a real and relevant question, anymore than that and you actually risk being a nuisance. Keep at it, continue to gather business cards - you are on the right track.
Good luck!
The thing is I have like... probably 30+ contacts(according to my records) from BBs... so which ones do I e-mail/focus on? Is dropping the "with recruiting around the corner I was wondering how to best position myself for an interview at your firm" a little too forward? I guess I have nothing to lose by e-mailing them and giving it a shot
Also, when I network, who should I focus on? I've read that I shouldn't just talk to the MDs but also the analysts and associates that can vouch for me... But how low does that go? Can an intern that got a full time offer drop names to HR/ are they heavily involved in the recruiting process?
You do it like this:
I'm interested in prop trading in Chicago. If you find my resume interesting PM me!
Resume: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B6lf…hl=en
See not so hard :P
When speaking with HR, make sure to find a way to name drop. The more people you have talked to, the better, as it shows keen interest in their particular firm. Use the information you gather from contacts as talking points in conversations and interviews ie:"Bob Jones told me that the company was adding an alternative energy group. Can you tell me more about this....."
Analysts actually drive the recruiting process, so make sure you leave no stone unturned. Speak to anyone you can get a hold of because you may end up interviewing with someone you became close with through the process (happened several times for me). Of course a recommendation from a Senior MD will land you an interview, but this in not a commonality as they are more detached from the process. Analysts and associates are still familiar with the struggle of recruiting, and will be more apt to assisting you. Moral of the story is, talk to everyone, including analysts. It is a numbers game and all it takes is one. Be personal, passionate and tenacious.
After targeting the company I was most interested in, I talked to around 15 individuals within the company. However, HR was reluctant to speak with me due to my non target background. I emailed this poor lady over 10 times before receiving a response, but when she caved in, she was quite impressed by my persistence. That interaction led to an interview, and eventually an offer. Basically, avoid being a pain in the ass, but break through walls to display your interest and passion for the company you want to work for. The offer was at Burger King, head cashier, if you are wondering. And yes I am still happily employed, great exit opps.
Networking: How to follow up with contacts? (Originally Posted: 10/19/2013)
Ask them questions. Comment on articles etc. You can probably find the answer to this in any general networking thread. Try to make a friend.
Tell them about something you've learned or taught yourself, or anything that shows you've been taking the right steps to be successful in w/e field you're shooting for.
How to get in contact? (Originally Posted: 07/05/2010)
I've recently cold-added an alumni VP at a bank on LinkedIn, and now I want to get in touch with him, my question is should I A) send him a message on LinkedIn, or B) email him. If it's choice B, should I send it to the email he has listed on LinkedIn (some yahoo one) or the email he was issued from the bank (that I found on a different website).
The reason I ask about the email is that I personally send out career-related emails from my school address, but I signed up for LinkedIn on my personal gmail address because I can't stand the spam group mail it sends.... So yeah I'm not sure which one is appropriate.
Thanks!
well first, for future reference, don't ever cold add someone on linkedin. I would just send him a nice short e-mail telling him you are interested in speaking with him and his role at the bank.
Don't cold add people on linkedin. It's like randomly adding people on facebook and is exceptionally stupid. Send them an email BEFORE.
Haha but he accepted! and.... I'm saying now that I'm at this point what should I do?
Thanks I'll be sure to keep it in mind for future reference though.
Unsure how to go about creating "connections" (Originally Posted: 07/01/2012)
Hey, everyone. First time poster here.
For the last month I've been immersing myself in finance (and, more specifically, I-Banking). Coming from a different intended major, the ideas of building connections between you and people who are in the investment banking industry seem to be a bit haphazard. As such, I'd like to make my [horribly uneducated] questions plain in the hopes that a kind higher-up might help me out.
-Does one start seeking summer internships starting during your sophomore year of college? More specifically, what age should one start looking for summer internships? -How do you build connections to IBers from scratch? I have [obviously] no experience in the matter, but from what I've read, it's a lot of attending information sessions and cold-emailing? -And on that note, taking into account proper cold-emailing etiquette, is the content of said email blunt?
If it matters, I'm going into Cornell ILR this semester as a sophomore. However, I'm strongly considering switching to AEM for both recruitment and educational reasons. Thanks in advance. (Oh, and if this is in the wrong forum, I'll delete/move the topic promptly.)
Reaching out to a banker I have no connection to (Originally Posted: 10/18/2012)
I was browsing LinkedIn the other day and I came across an associates profile from a BB. He had listed some of the deals hes worked on in his profile.
I quickly read through it and one of the deals there is one I REALLY want to know more about, it involves a company that I have a deep interest in and I really want to learn more about this transaction.
Should I cold email this person saying i am interested in his bank (I am anyway) or should I open up with something about my interest in this deal?
How would he react, the only connection i have is that we are both members of a group on linkedin.
How should I go about approaching this?
Mention the deal and the bank. Say that you're interested in learning about the deal and then his group and then trying to interview.
EDIT: it may seem a little more genuine seeing as you don't have a connection and you're not just trying to use him; you're trying to learn more about the deal/firm/industry.
Ideal Networking Timeline? (Originally Posted: 09/13/2012)
How should one build a traditional networking relationship? This is for an undergrad junior, looking for roles in IB
Should it be something like the following?
1) Email Alum asking if you can chat on phone 2) Receive positive reply in ~3 days 3) Reply immediately and set up chat for next week 4) Talk on phone, and promise to keep in touch 5) ~2 months later, ask to meet in person via phone/email 6) Receive positive reply in ~3 days, schedule meeting for ~2 weeks from now 7) Meet in person, and at the end of the chat, ask person for internship
This little template has two email contacts, a informational phone interview and a second informational interview over coffee spread out over about 3 months. Is this too short a timeline/too few contacts (i.e. you don't know the person well enough to make the ask/the person will feel you are too obviously just using them)?
If anything, this is too long of a timeline. Why are you arbitrarily waiting 2 months to go see them in person? This is a business of now.
Also you should also be asking for more than just an internship-- ask for referrals to other people in his firm, his friends at other firms, whatever.
What do you actually say to a banker? Bankers GTFIH - How do you win a banker over? (Originally Posted: 02/07/2013)
When networking with bankers you already know or who know someone you know its so much easier. They know the deal. They even offer to refer you to people.
What about UNKNOWNS? What on earth does a 19-22yo say to an MD or VP that he hasn't heard from 200 other kids wanting to get in?
Basically How do you win a banker over? From step point A to Z?
From the moment you say HI? Then what? :O
"I want a job at the Goldman Sachs"
Lmaooooo!!!!
If you're talking to a banker from Citi, so does he.
'When was the last time you lead a team?' 'What's your greatest weakness?' 'What's the angle between the hands of a clock when it's 03:15?'
otherwise, pin your hair back, put on something pretty and get on your knees
bankers are people -- try to form a genuine relationship with the person first.
I always start off by asking how much he/she makes. Not sure why I never get any offers though.
Do you want to be a pitcher? If so, I can be your catcher.
Tell them about how awesome you think the OWS movement is MAAAAAANNNNNNNN
Tell them that you played a few years in the majors for whatever sport it is that they care about. Guarenteed VP level offer.
Tell him you never, ever fail to cup the balls during a blowjob.
Shoot the shit. It might be awkward for a little while, but the convo will flow naturally.
Networking at a Target/Effective way of reaching people? (Originally Posted: 11/21/2010)
Hi all,
I'm a junior right now studying abroad in a foreign country, and as a result, am missing out on all the networking and on campus recruiting that's been going on at my school. I've been advised to start networking from abroad in hopes of making it to first round interviews, and I just have a few questions for everyone out there.
I go to a school where there is a lot of recruiting going on, with on campus interviews held near the end of January. Usually at these recruiting events, they bring in first year to third year analysts, and some associates, as well as the recruiters. I'm assuming they will be the ones reading the resumes. When I am contacting people, do you suggest that I reach out to these individuals first? Or should I try for people higher up, like MDs and VPs. One thing to note is that I dont know exactly who these people are, and am probably just going to have to cold message analysts/associates after finding them on LinkedIn and hope they are the same ones who are active in the recruiting process.
Which brings me to my second question -- using LinkedIn. Has this strategy worked for any of you? For most of the contacts on LinkedIn, it is possible to look at their first and last names. Do you suggest I guess their work emails from their LinkedIn name, and email them directly there, or should I just message them through LinkedIn? I'm pretty sure that email is quicker, but at the same time kind of comes off as stalkerish? Also, LinkedIn at least puts a face to the name, which I think might help? (Btw, I am a girl, and I feel like perhaps people would be less inclined to reject a female off the bat?)
I am actually pretty shy when it comes down to cold-emailing people, since I'm worried I'd get ignored, and it'd be awkward if I ever met these people face to face in the future at alumni events (especially if they are close in age -- ie. analysts). Does anyone else feel this way?
Lastly, does anyone know how difficult it is to make it to first round interviews from a top 5 school? How many people do these firms interview for a school like Yale or Columbia? Is all this networking necessary to land first rounds?
This forum has been tremendously helpful so far, and any responses are appreciated :)
ilovency,
See this thread I just posted: //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/one-cold-email-to-change-your-life-resul…
Get their names from linked in, figure out the email address format, and email the most senior people you can--aside from C-levels.
In your email do the following to not freak them out:
Do not exceed half a page. Ask yourself if some creepy dude who saw you in the library emailed you an entire page email--would you get freaked out? Or would you like to have coffee with the cool kid who talks in fragments (and thus appears most interesting?).
Girls have an advantage for OCR during the interview and also through diversity programs. E.g., JPMorgan's Winning Women program.
There's no time to waste. If you miss this chance to land an in-cycle junior internship at a BB, it will be 100x harder to get an offer as a senior.
**Also you listed your school in your profile, which I guessed was XXX. XXX's job bank is one of the most extensive for PE/banking,etc. My friend randomly threw my resume onto your school's job bank, and I got a KKR interview.
Have you ever read a post on WSO and you could immediately tell the person has Asperger's syndrome.
"6. Thank you for reading my cold-email. - These exact words."
rationale?
The rationale behind it is that you acknowledge that it's a cold-email.
I really like it, and I have used variations of it.
ilovency is actually my mentee--we didn't know each others' identities until a Facebook matchup. Small world.
Another version we worked on:
--
Hi Lyold,
I saw your name on the [fundraiser/recruiting/gs.com website]. As you probably guessed, I’m doing X and Y to earn an interview at your firm.
My dilemma is I am studying abroad this summer at [Insert study program] and am unable to attend the meet and greets. [Insert: where I can ask questions, what I can do to improve as a liberal arts major, DO NOT SAY FACETIME).
I’ll be honest and say I don’t have financial experience, but I worked at [THIS PLACE], I did this, and [HELPED MY SCHOOL/HELPED PEOPLE]----and would love to train with [Insert IB group] at Goldman.
I work hard at the ground level, won’t ask stupid questions, can do excel, and am willing to learn. [BB LP--how the Mayor sold his Master Terminal to Merrill was, "5 minutes, it won't cost you a dime."
Just like approaching a girl at a bar, make it known that you are leaving in 10 minutes (comfort), your motives (can I get to know you), your value added (maybe I'll get us both drinks and share a dance), and your reasonable ask (can I see you again?).
-James
A great try, but not effective email (from the BlackRock Alumni group I moderate).
Very competitive Entry-Level candidate, May 2011
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am a senior at XXXX double majoring in XXXXX and XXXXX, and minoring in XXXX. I am most eager to introduce myself as I am looking for an entry-level position in the financial services industry. I do have some specific areas I’m interested in, however I’d love to talk to an array of people that can expose to me as much knowledge as possible.
My studies, both inside and outside the classroom, have prepared me for a starting position in the highly coveted field of Finance. I read the Wall Street Journal daily as well as The Economist weekly. I have a deep passion for finance as well as the news that surrounds it, the economics that impact it, and politics that enforce it. While in college, I realized that it wasn’t enough to be well-rounded and that developing management and leadership skills was really important too.
To develop my management skills, I have formed an organization on campus called XXXXXX Capital Management. We provide students with a hands-on approach to XXXXX, XXXXX, and XXXXX trading. We teach students about different asset classes and how to utilize different strategies. Through XXXX, I have developed exceptional leadership skills that set me apart from my peers. Our website can provide more details on our mission and current events.
Along with running an organization, I was selected to be part of the XXXXXXXXX Fund. With the help of seven students, I have developed the investment strategy for diversifying XXX. This gave me practical experience with trading securities. The main securities we invested in were linked toXXXXX, XXXXXX, XXXXXX, and XXXX.
If anyone would like to further talk about my interests or their opportunities please don’t hesitate to contact me. I look forward to speaking with you. My resume is attached to this thread.
Sincerely,
XXXXXXXXX New York, NY XXXXX@XXXXX XXXXX – Co-Founder www.XXXX.com
5 days ago Powered by Google Docs docs.google.com
This guy is a leader, and he works hard--started a fund for his school too, just like yours truly. But:
Remember focus on the "Big Ideal" -- find your key influencers -- make them invest in you somehow (go to bat) -- make them not regret it -- help others. That's the method to cold-email/cold-calling to a 1st - Final round.
If 3,000 juniors are sending the same email, wouldn't "I won't ask stupid questions" be like a HOORAY FINALLY RE: subjective affect?
Again, tell the guy reading your email.
Everyone else is wasting your time, saying the same damn thing. I am not going to insult your intelligence. I want an opportunity, but I want to earn it. If you go to bat for me, I will go to bat for others--you won't regret it.
I'm not going to lie. I am going to be honest and straightforward. So if I fuck up on the pitchbook or make a stupid mistake, I'll own up to it early on--and learn from it--so we won't fuck up the entire deal.
I definitely appreciate your time: I won't ask stupid questions, and you won't lead me on this "why don't you read Wall Street Oasis" road. I want to see if you can either (A) take me or (B) refer me to someone else.
Thanks for reading this cold-email: Because you know I am probably writing hundreds of these at 3am in the morning instead of dropping my resume into a blackhole. I know this game, and I know this industry--I need your help to navigate this jungle just as you have five years ago.
Approach an email to a MD as you would to your first girlfriend. Remember you thought about it for such a long time? It shows. I learned this in advertising.
Networking Advice - Effective at networking (Originally Posted: 01/07/2013)
I would like some help with being more effective at networking - I’m currently in the last semester of my MSc degree at a target, and all the previous attempts I’ve tried have not led to much.
I have not tried cold-calling yet (I’d like to begin soon) but I wanted to get some feedback on what I might be doing wrong right now.
I think what you're doing wrong is not cold-calling. I think calling is probably a better strategy since most people get tons of emails and it's hard to go through all of them. They're more likely to remember you if you talk to them by phone. I am not sure my advice counts for much since I haven't had that much success networking either, but that's what I would do if I were you since the methods you used so far seem fine to me. Think of it this way: persistence always pays off. No one is going to say anything bad if you call them too many times, since it shows you are passionate about a possible job in finance and initiative, can-do attitude, bla bla bla. All that stuff HR keeps talking about.
bump
I think the main problem here is cold anything. If you go to a target school you most certainly have a large alumni base in many of the firms that you are targeting. If you're networking correctly every interaction you have should at least be a warm call, email, or in-person meeting. Start with your fellow classmates and second year MBAs that have already interned at these firms (and maybe accepted offers) and work your way into the system. People are MUCH more receptive when your contact is first screened through somebody they know and trust.
Effective Networking with Analysts/Associates (Originally Posted: 06/06/2011)
When networking with Investment Bankers through cold calling, cold emailing, or linkedin, is it worth contacting analysts/associates? If I had to guess, I think the size of the bank is crucial here. If it is a small boutique, would an analyst/associate be a greater contact then an analyst/associate at a BB? Any advice is appreciated.
Also, do BB's do any form of fall/spring internship, or is it strictly summer only?
I don't think it would hurt. I've gotten an interview through an analyst before. I think some do spring/winter internships, but it would depend on the bank.
Depends on the geographic region. I know in the UK winter and spring internships are common due to uni's trimester setup. I've gotten cold emails and calls before and was more then happy to chat a bit as I was in the same situation. Network with everyone regardless of position. Pretty much all the first and second years know each other through being SA togethers and drinks after work. So never hurts to pick up the phone.
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