Hey guys,
So I know that "reported" bonuses were about $80K for first-years last year at BBs. I'm wondering what average and lower-bucket bonuses were, and, if anyone knows, how the breakdown usually works - ie what percentage usually get which bucket. I'm a first-year at a BB and contemplating whether I want to stick it out...I'm not enjoying banking and figure my options are to either stick it out and go through the motions in order to get my bonus, which would probably end up being middle bucket but maybe lower bucket if I don't put a whole lot of effort into it, or resign now and do something else. Any thoughts?
If you don't mind me asking what is it that you don't like? Is it your Associate, your group?
I'm assuming you did all your homework before going into banking so you already knew about the hours and grunt work
Frankly, it's the hours. Of course I knew what the hours would be like going in, and I can certainly handle the hours - its just that I don't want to. That sounds like a very weak excuse, but after several months of pretty much giving up my life to the job, I've decided that even if I completely loved the work I'd rather do something that gives me more free time to pursue my other interests, hobbies, girls, etc. Also I'm not nearly as highly motivated by money as my colleagues.
Come on nebanker, stick it out. It sounds like you're 25% of the way through your 2-year stint. You have about 2% of your remaining lifespan left to grind out before you can get on with doing whatever you want - only with many more options and no question mark on your resume. Also, things usually get easier in second year.
Many people get great non-finance exit ops out of banking. People at advertising firms or corps or non-profits etc. don't know the difference between top bucket and mid bucket. But they do know when someone craps out of their 2-year analyst gig. Or when someone put in so little effort that their references are shit. And that could hinder you for years. Even if you've fucked up a lot until now and lost the respect or confidence of people you work with, it may not too late to turn it around and finish in a respectable spot. Consider finishing what you started, then leaving finance after year 2.
Can anyone address the original question? I don't want to try to convince a bunch of bankers/banker aspirants that not sticking with it is the right choice for me. For many people a 2-year analyst stint is a great resume builder, sets up great exit opps, et al. I've come to care less and less about these things as I've actually experienced the world of finance. So, can anyone please speak to the original question?
Thanks.
Anyone who's trying to convince you to stick it out or are saying you've made the wrong choice have probably never worked in banking or have done a summer at most.
Common set of bands for analysts breaks down as such (In my experience)
Top-20%
Middle-70%
Bottom-10%
Hello, I was an analyst at a prestigious bank last year and got bottom bonus. I left after one year with offers at several top PE firms. I am currently finishing up my second year at one of them. Anyway, there were three analysts in my group and I got the lowest bonus and it was $60K. Base was $60k as well. I did get a signing bonus from the new firm, as well as a pretty sweet compensation deal. Bottom line is I make more now than I would have if I had stayed and earned top bonus.
What was your rationale for doing this, and why don't more analysts follow this path?
It's just about the opportunities you come across. He could be better off than the other 2 analysts now.
I was miserable in banking. Hours were obviously tough, but it was the people who made it intolerable. The associates and VPs in my group were horrible people - nasty, petty, rude etc. My quality of life is infinitely better now. I work a LOT less, but the real joy is that I love what I'm doing, and people are genuinely nice and professional in my new firm. Lots of analysts I knew both at my old bank and from school who worked at other banks left after their first years. Contrary to what you may think, practically all of those who left after 1 full year were top top analysts who went on to jobs anyone would be proud to have after 2 years anyway. The ones who left after 2 weeks were the bad ones. My bonus was low because my group sensed I had been interviewing and was leaving.
Wow, 60k sounds very, very good for bottom rung bonus. Was this uniform across the firm you were at (if you know)?
I wonder what bonuses will look like this year...
60k sounds about right for bottom bucket last year. This year is anyone's guess. Personally, I'd bet that the mean bonus for analysts will drop but that the top bucket dollar figure will be close to what it was last year.
How did they know you had been interviewing?
It's not hard to figure out. If people see your face in the office 90 hours a week and all of a sudden you leave in the middle of the morning or afternoon for 1-4 hours, it's not terribly difficult. Or if you usually come in between 9 and 10 and get in at 11. Or if people in your group catch you in the elevator bank or lobby with a suit jacket and a bag...
The range at BBs for first years was $60k-$90k, a ton of people got high 70s to low 80s. Some banks had a bottom bucket of $70k (to keep a 20k range like the year before), this includes DB and GS. Total comp for the year would have been $10k signing, $60k salary, and $60-$90k bonus. So, for first years, your all in comp last year would have been $130k - $160k.
Chances are good that the top bucket will either stay the same or decline, especially since the year before it was $60-$80k.
Top at MS and GS was 90 and bottom was about 70 unless you really weren't working out. 10K signing and 60K salary for GS and MS for 2007 analyst class. This year fulltime offers to start Summer 2008 are running at 10K signing bonus & 65 Salary.
The Prince of Wall Street
http://www.princeofwallstreet.com
im pretty sure no banks are paying full-time in 08 65k base. i believe all are still 60k except for a few randow boutiques
Hmm..so nobody gets totally shafted with like 30-40K bonuses? I figured that if the firm decided that they don't want to keep you that's how they communicate this to you...or do they figure it would be unreasonably cruel (or risk reputational risk) if they only paid someone 30K after such crappy hours?
And does the same apply for S&T at BBs?
bump
Generally what people have said is accurate regarding the $60K-$90K range last year. It might go to $50K-$80K this year or who knows, the top might remain $90K - all depends on how things look closer to bonus time. Usually bonus numbers for Analysts are set in May when all the MDs from different groups come together and decide everyone's bonuses.
I would say a bonus of $30K is highly, highly unlikely unless you are truly terrible and they want to get rid of you or unless the market somehow completely tanks, even more than it has currently.
For S&T I'm not sure but I imagine the bonus range is more variable than that of IBD, but still has a hard upper limit, at least for Analysts. I know because one of my friends left S&T at a BB after he made the firm a large amount of money and only got paid 1-2% of it. :)
Also, nebanker, I would not make your decision based on the bonus. Even if you absolutely hate banking, I would stick it out for the year - not necessarily to get the bonus, but just so you can say, "Look, I did it for a year, found I really didn't like it and moved on" - this sounds more credible than leaving after 6 months and will give you better options down the road.
PM me if you have anymore questions - I have seen several situations similar to yours so feel free to ask.
If you really are not working out and they don't want to flat out fire you they will pay you lower than the low range of 70k. I had a guy in my group that wasn't doing his work and really creating problems. He really should of been fired but they gave him a 40k bonus and he took a walk. Easier than firing him.
The Prince of Wall Street
http://www.princeofwallstreet.com
I've heard this one before, but I was wondering why it's easier to pay someone a shoddy bonus and induce them to leave than to fire them outright. In theory, it's at-will employment, and if an employer wants to get rid of you, they can find any number of reasons to do so. Of course, in practice, I've noticed that at both of the BB's I've worked for, it's *very* hard to fire someone, with the excepting circumstances being that they're outright terrible AND they have a history over weeks or months of having been that way.
Anyway, I'd love to hear people's perspectives on this -- it certainly doesn't seem to be the case that non-performers are let go as often as maybe they should be, and I was curious as to why this was the case.
Do you know if the bonus range of 60-90K is the same for people in S&T? It's probably a bit more variable, but is that range about right?
Prince of Wall
If you really are not working out and they don't want to flat out fire you they will pay you lower than the low range of 70k. I had a guy in my group that wasn't doing his work and really creating problems. He really should of been fired but they gave him a 40k bonus and he took a walk. Easier than firing him.
Prince, aren't you a senior in college?
The bonuses are banded the same at the analyst level for S&T and IBD.
You don't want to get a reputation for firing people prior to comp, regardless of their work product. If you do it once, you might get away with it. You do it twice, it's truth and word spreads. For a fact, analysts were paid in the $30K-$40K range and took a hike after. If you can't stand it, it's probably not worth it to stick it out. If you're going to make $80K, then man up for the next 5 months.
I was talking about someone in my group when I was a summer.
The Prince of Wall Street
http://www.princeofwallstreet.com
Do you guys really think that the range will drop from 60-90 by only 10k or so to 50-80? By saying that I'm not questioning it, I'm a senior in college and know nothing about it, I'm just surprised that the decline would be so insignificant. My thought was that after the housing/credit slumps, 1st year bonuses would be down to 30-50 or lower, with some banks not giving out bonuses at all. Is there a possibility of that happening at all??
I'm still in college as well so i'm just giving my opinion and don't know for sure. But I doubt banks will pay much less mainly because the war for talent with pe firms is still on. Banks will have no choice but to pay competitively in order to get the best recruits.
I guess you're right. I mean, I WISH you were right, it's my bonus as well that is going to depend on that :)
I would have agreed a month or two ago, but I don't know...things are getting really bad, and the banks are in bad, bad shape.
I don't know if the general public (including college students interviewing for IB positions) really has a grasp of how brutal it is right now. Banks are making NO money. They are holding a ton of securities in inventory which ties up their balance sheets and constrains their ability to provide new financing. The fact of the matter is that the credit markets, from complex CDO's to simple Muni bonds, are a disaster right now. The general sense from all the banks is that we are in for a very, very difficult year, especially in the next few months. With Analyst bonus figures pegged in May, I would not bet on them being anywhere close to last year's levels. I would expect top bucket 1st year analyst to be $50K, with bottom bucket at $30K. Bottom line, if you get $40K, take it and like it.
agree, exactly what i said in one of my previous posts:
"1st-year bonuses would be down to 30-50 or lower, with some banks not giving out bonuses at all."
scary thought but i def think it's possible...
Prob will be laughed at, but what could a 1st year analyst in operations (Equity Derivatives) expect from Goldman Sachs? I have been told by others 10% of salary. 55k base with 10k signing is what I'm starting with.
Thanks
Banks not handing out bonuses to its analysts is a total joke. Everyone would walk. You'd have a year of banking under your belt, so job ops would be out there when the market returned, and you could make the same base, plus a little bonus, in any finance department, of any company (while reducing your hourly workload in half).
These are very general assumptions, but I think it is more likely to happen than no analyst bonus. That is just ludicrous. They will fire a ton of analysts before that happens. Worst case is they would just L-TIP the f*ck out of the analysts, like they do VPs and MDs, but I don't know if that has ever happened before. Bonuses won't fall below $30 for mid-to-top bucket, I'd bet my entire bonus check on that.
Buck2210, I really hope you're right. Maybe I'm just trying to be more pessimistic than optimistic. A positive surprise is always better. I've heard people saying everything from no bonus (because of the coming recession/credit turmoil) to no change from last year's 80-90 top bucket (because the banks are competing with PE, HF etc no matter what the market conditions are right now). So I don't really know. I hope we'll be positively surprised...
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